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So there are creators other than God?
Not at all Satan is the source of evil. That doesn't make him a God he is still a created being.
Just one with immense power.
But you told RAMOS that God did not create Satan. If so, who created him? Further, as a Torah inclined Jew we fundamentally reject the idea that Satan is either the source of all evil, or an independent agent of God. Both ideas are heresies with no root in the Torah, and which call into question the supremacy of God.
He wasn't created by God if that is what you mean.
Not at all.
God created lucifer. Lucifer was the guardian of Gods throne. From what we know he was the greatest angel God created.
Maybe he had a little free will we don't know.
What we do know is that lucifer grew jealous. He tried to overthrow God. He was cast out of heaven for his rebellion.
After that he set himself up or tries to set himself up as a god.
The concept of non-dualism is that not only is God 'One' but God is 'Everything'. In other words that there is no separation between the creator and the created, that there is nothing that isn't God. You're 'God', the chair is 'God, that errant thought you had is 'God', everything and anything is 'God'.
I'll borrow a quick description of the Jewish approach to this which is generally found in Chassidus and Kabala:
"The Kabbalistic name for this phenomenon, is "Ein Sof," meaning "without end." That is to say, that all existence is God’s existence, that there is nothing that isn’t god–and therefore God encompasses all existence–good and bad, pleasure and suffering–but does not necessarily have discrete characteristics or a personality (except when it does). God isn’t just in everyone and everything, it is everyone and everything."
It's very similar to Monism I suppose.
Anyways, historically it's been a very controversial and hotly debated subject since the School of Athens and I was curious what your thoughts were on the subject. Feel free to approach it from any religious lens, obviously mine is Jewish.
Not at all.
God created lucifer. Lucifer was the guardian of Gods throne. From what we know he was the greatest angel God created.
Maybe he had a little free will we don't know.
What we do know is that lucifer grew jealous. He tried to overthrow God. He was cast out of heaven for his rebellion.
After that he set himself up or tries to set himself up as a god.
Not at all Satan is the source of evil. That doesn't make him a God he is still a created being.
Just one with immense power.
But you told RAMOS that God did not create Satan. If so, who created him? Further, as a Torah inclined Jew we fundamentally reject the idea that Satan is either the source of all evil, or an independent agent of God. Both ideas are heresies with no root in the Torah, and which call into question the supremacy of God.
In my belief as "God" or "life force" or "universe" is everything, all things are then God. You are God as am I as is ludin and so on. Would that be in line with what you as a Torah inclined Jew believe?
I would make the distinction here between "part of God" and "God." As I have come to understand through Zen teaching, "everything" has no parts. All (for lack of a better term) is seamless, One. As such there are no parts or pieces. How does that jibe with what you have learned through the Torah?
| Moderator's Warning: |
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So then are you saying that God is not everything? God is not omnipotent?
The story of Lucifer is legend, not supported in the Bible. But whether Satan was Lucifer, Samael or whoever, God created him.
God created it. God knows it is happening. God allows it. What more is needed?
Actually it is supported by the bible in several verses.
God did create Lucifer. God did not create evil though that would go against his nature and character.
why do people argue strawman? please show where I said any of that.
I never said he wasn't omnipotent.
Actually it is supported by the bible in several verses.
God did create Lucifer. God did not create evil though that would go against his nature and character.
why do people argue strawman? please show where I said any of that.
I never said he wasn't omnipotent.
No one is arguing except you. Sherman started the thread to discuss non dualism. It is OK that you don't agree but I don't believe the intent of the OP was about proving anyone right or wrong.
I said that if God is not All or One that God then is not omnipotent.
No one is arguing except you. Sherman started the thread to discuss non dualism. It is OK that you don't agree but I don't believe the intent of the OP was about proving anyone right or wrong.
I said that if God is not All or One that God then is not omnipotent.
Sure you just made an argument about something I never said.
God can be omnipotent but not create everything.
not everyone is a god either.
Actually it is supported by the bible in several verses.
God did create Lucifer. God did not create evil though that would go against his nature and character.
The concept of non-dualism is that not only is God 'One' but God is 'Everything'. In other words that there is no separation between the creator and the created, that there is nothing that isn't God. You're 'God', the chair is 'God, that errant thought you had is 'God', everything and anything is 'God'.
I'll borrow a quick description of the Jewish approach to this which is generally found in Chassidus and Kabala:
"The Kabbalistic name for this phenomenon, is "Ein Sof," meaning "without end." That is to say, that all existence is God’s existence, that there is nothing that isn’t god–and therefore God encompasses all existence–good and bad, pleasure and suffering–but does not necessarily have discrete characteristics or a personality (except when it does). God isn’t just in everyone and everything, it is everyone and everything."
It's very similar to Monism I suppose.
Anyways, historically it's been a very controversial and hotly debated subject since the School of Athens and I was curious what your thoughts were on the subject. Feel free to approach it from any religious lens, obviously mine is Jewish.
Your God would be convicted of crimes aagainst humanity in any civilized court today.
Not really since He is the judge of all things not the other way around.
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