Noam Chomsky, 93, issues warning: 'We're approaching the most dangerous point in human history'

[upsideguy]

In a recent interview with the NewStatesman (yes, a liberal publication, but scores high on factual integrity and reliability .... and an interview you can see for yourself), Noam Chomsky, one of the great thinkers of our time (not to be confused with the DP poster, who is a pretty thinker in his own right) argued that we are approaching the MOST dangerous point in human history. Just look at the standoff in Eastern Europe and think about how we have ignored climate change, and to find foundation for his concern. The cited article (and see YouTube below): https://www.newstatesman.com/encoun...ing-the-most-dangerous-point-in-human-history

It is now, however, that Chomsky says we are “facing the prospect of destruction” of human life on Earth. https://www.newstatesman.com/encoun...ing-the-most-dangerous-point-in-human-history

Climate change has been the central topic of Chomsky’s most recent works, in which he writes about the inextricable tie between global warming and capitalism. He has deemed Earth as unsalvageable within the “time scale” that capitalist countries such as the U.S. have made for it, even with the establishment of policies committed to decreasing carbon output.

“There is no one other than Donald Trump –in history– who has done more to try to drive the human race to extinction,” said Chomsky, who added that “nothing else mattered” if the future was destroyed. He listed Trump’s policies focusing on “maximizing fossil fuels” and “cutting back” regulations that addressed climate change. Chomsky also likened “Trump’s fanaticism” to Hitler’s Nazis rallies, describing, in particular, the strong base of Republicans against addressing climate change as “a truly dangerous insurgency.” He described the party’s disregard of global warming as “a death warrant” for humankind........

Though he self-identifies as an anarcho-syndicalist or a libertarian socialist, Chomsky revealed to me that he had voted for Republicans in the past (“like them or not, they were an authentic party”). But now he said, they were a truly dangerous insurgency.
“Because of Trump’s fanaticism, the worshipful base of the Republican Party barely regards climate change as a serious problem. That’s a death warrant to the species.”

On Ukraine: "....he added: “Why did he do it? There are two ways of looking at this question. One way, the fashionable way in the West, is to plumb the recesses of Putin’s twisted mind and try to determine what’s happening in his deep psyche.“The other way would be to look at the facts: for example, that in September 2021 the United States came out with a strong policy statement, calling for enhanced military cooperation with Ukraine, further sending of advanced military weapons, all part of the enhancement programme of Ukraine joining Nato. You can take your choice, we don’t know which is right. What we do know is that Ukraine will be further devastated. And we may move on to terminal nuclear war if we do not pursue the opportunities that exist for a negotiated settlement.”

How does he respond to the argument that Putin’s greatest fear is not encirclement by Nato but the spread of liberal democracy in Ukraine and Russia’s “near abroad”?

“...Putin is as concerned with democracy as we are. If it’s possible to break out of the propaganda bubble for a few minutes, the US has a long record of undermining and destroying democracy. Do I have to run through it? Iran in 1953, Guatemala in 1954, Chile in 1973, on and on… But we are supposed to now honour and admire Washington’s enormous commitment to sovereignty and democracy. What happened in history doesn’t matter. That’s for other people...."

Although he marches to a different beat, Noam Chomsky remains of the great thinkers of our time. It isn't necessary to agree with him, but he sufficiently versed and articulate on politics and the human condition that you should at least hear what he has to say. If you wish to dismiss it, have good reason to do so as he ain't no crackpot.

Anyone have thoughts on this (other than simply to dismiss Chomsky as a crackpot, which would be a rather sub-intellectual response)?

 

[Felis Leo]

Without discussing his thoughts on the environmental question (with which I largely I agree) I find this position on Ukraine having as much moral clarity and solidity as a meringue.

It seems that he has managed to re-frame Russia's brutal invasion of the sovereign nation of Ukraine as a truly horrible atrocity...committed by the United States.

In his mind, the United States is like some sort of cruel God of his universe. A first mover around which all other nations revolve, and can merely react to. There can be no other wicked actors without first blaming the prime wicked actor: America.

 

[MaryP]

There is something really troubling about us being responsible for destroying all life on a planet. Killing a planet?
It's sick.

Chomsky is a critical thinker. They're often hard to listen to, but they tend to cut to the chase.

 

[Cardinal]

There is something really troubling about us being responsible for destroying all life on a planet. Killing a planet?
It's sick.

Chomsky is a critical thinker. They're often hard to listen to, but they tend to cut to the chase.

Well I’ve got good news and I’ve got bad news. What do you want to hear first? What’s that? The bad news? Happy to oblige.

The bad news is we have multiple ways of killing all life on earth. Or near enough as would be filed under “Same difference.”

The good news is that the earth is a totally enduring biosphere. Short of the sun exploding or the earth being pulled off its orbit and flung into outer space as a rogue planet, life will always come back. Nothing we do can possibly be any worse than the Permian-Triassic extinction event, and the earth bounced right the hell back from that. Sure, it took ~3 million of years for it to happen, but in earth years that’s not really too long. And the recovery time after a global nuclear war is a lot shorter than you might imagine: 10-20 years.

You know, I think I’m starting to figure out why I’m not invited to parties.

 

[Cardinal]

Without discussing his thoughts on the environmental question (with which I largely I agree) I find this position on Ukraine having as much moral clarity and solidity as a meringue.

It seems that he has managed to re-frame Russia's brutal invasion of the sovereign nation of Ukraine as a truly horrible atrocity...committed by the United States.

In his mind, the United States is like some sort of cruel God of his universe. A first mover around which all other nations revolve, and can merely react to. There can be no other wicked actors without first blaming the prime wicked actor: America.

Every time somebody blames the spread of NATO for Russian aggression, my first question is, “Do you not know what NATO is?? These people seem to occupy one of three groups: 1) Pro-Putin propagandists (we’ve got ‘em!), 2) People who don’t know history (We’ve got those too!), and 3) People who are perpetually confused by the concept of cause and effect (Talking to these people is futile).

 

[MamboDervish]

Noam Chomsky, 93, issues warning: 'We're approaching the most dangerous point in human history'​

Unlike our contemporary political parties, our major media sources, and our ever swaying public sentiment, one thing that can be said about Noam is that he never thinks and speaks like he was born yesterday. He understands history, not merely because he has studied it, but because he has lived through it - including most of the last century. He recognizes that, however well-intentioned we'd all love to believe our country is, nobody's hands are clean. Especially in regards to US foreign policy, and despite history's best efforts to educate us all, we still fail to recognize and acknowledge the Law of Unintended Consequences.

May Chomsky's voice still be with us another 20 years.

 

[Emily L]

You know, I think I’m starting to figure out why I’m not invited to parties.

I'll invite you to mine--as long as you promise not to start throwing that hat around.

I know these are scary times, but I can't help thinking we'll pull out if it. My older relatives talk about World War II, when they had similar fears. And some of them even thought the 1960's race riots would bring down our government.

I'm not discounting the seriousness of the situation. Nor am I trying to be a "Pollyanna." But when we face things like this, we have to believe there's a way out of it, or else we will have already given up and conceded defeat--a position that almost guarantees that very outcome.

 

[NatMorton]

Old man yells at clouds.

 

[HIP56948]

We should have cared what might happen to life on earth a few decades ago. As I've said several times, even to the point of being obnoxious, we need to quit voting for
sociopaths and people with zero empathy. Do you really think these disgusting people really care what will happen after they die? ..think again.
As poster "Cardinal" says..The earth will be fine. It's lifespan is in the billions of years. Our end-of-life looks like the proverbial train rushing toward us in very few years.

 

[multivita-man]

It seems that he has managed to re-frame Russia's brutal invasion of the sovereign nation of Ukraine as a truly horrible atrocity...committed by the United States.

In his mind, the United States is like some sort of cruel God of his universe. A first mover around which all other nations revolve, and can merely react to. There can be no other wicked actors without first blaming the prime wicked actor: America.

I find that a lot of times, I initially disagree vehemently with Chomsky's takes, but then once I have time to really consider the merits of what he's saying, I'll often pull back a bit. I think he sometimes tries to get people's attention and tends to over-distill things in an effort to make people at home more aware of the consequences of our own behavior, and so sometimes I often find myself reacting to the specific language that he uses. But when you actually consider the positions he's taking, what he's protesting, then I find myself a lot more in alignment with what he's saying. One complaint is that Chomsky tends to protest against policies rather than actually articulate specifically what he'd like to see -- at least from what I've read and heard.

On a side note, I studied linguistics in my master's program and I'll have you know that Chomsky's work in that subject area was groundbreaking. Easily one of the most influential linguistics experts of all time - as influential as Lev Vygotsky's work on learning. Chomsky's a brilliant man. Worth listening to even if I find some of his ideas provocative and maybe a bit overly simplistic.

 

[HIP56948]

Well I’ve got good news and I’ve got bad news. What do you want to hear first? What’s that? The bad news? Happy to oblige.

The bad news is we have multiple ways of killing all life on earth. Or near enough as would be filed under “Same difference.”

The good news is that the earth is a totally enduring biosphere. Short of the sun exploding or the earth being pulled off its orbit and flung into outer space as a rogue planet, life will always come back. Nothing we do can possibly be any worse than the Permian-Triassic extinction event, and the earth bounced right the hell back from that. Sure, it took ~3 million of years for it to happen, but in earth years that’s not really too long. And the recovery time after a global nuclear war is a lot shorter than you might imagine: 10-20 years.

You know, I think I’m starting to figure out why I’m not invited to parties.

Very well said! I wish I could give 100 likes.

 

[ataraxia]

Well I’ve got good news and I’ve got bad news. What do you want to hear first? What’s that? The bad news? Happy to oblige.

The bad news is we have multiple ways of killing all life on earth. Or near enough as would be filed under “Same difference.”

The good news is that the earth is a totally enduring biosphere. Short of the sun exploding or the earth being pulled off its orbit and flung into outer space as a rogue planet, life will always come back. Nothing we do can possibly be any worse than the Permian-Triassic extinction event, and the earth bounced right the hell back from that. Sure, it took ~3 million of years for it to happen, but in earth years that’s not really too long. And the recovery time after a global nuclear war is a lot shorter than you might imagine: 10-20 years.

You know, I think I’m starting to figure out why I’m not invited to parties.

Life may bounce back- but that's not saying anything about humans though. Who knows? Maybe we will have intelligent cockroaches as the new dominant species on the planet. They will probably study and marvel at how the human species self-annihilated through its own stupidity and short-sightedness. At least the dinosaurs got wiped out not through any action of their own.

 

[Cardinal]

Life may bounce back- but that's not saying anything about humans though. Who knows? Maybe we will have intelligent cockroaches as the new dominant species on the planet. They will probably study and marvel at how the human species self-annihilated through its own stupidity and short-sightedness. At least the dinosaurs got wiped out not through any action of their own.

No, of course I didn't say anything about humans. All I was addressing was the rather depressing notion that earth could be turned into a lifeless rock floating in space. I mean...it could...just not because of anything we could do to it.

Here's a fun educational video on one of the ways earth's biosphere could really...truly...die.

 

[MamboDervish]

And the recovery time after a global nuclear war is a lot shorter than you might imagine: 10-20 years.

Define "recovery" in the context of nuclear war.

You know, I think I’m starting to figure out why I’m not invited to parties.

Now that COVID 19 is finally on the wane, I'm sure your number of party invitations will skyrocket.

 

[cpwill]

Without discussing his thoughts on the environmental question (with which I largely I agree) I find this position on Ukraine having as much moral clarity and solidity as a meringue.

It seems that he has managed to re-frame Russia's brutal invasion of the sovereign nation of Ukraine as a truly horrible atrocity...committed by the United States

In his mind, the United States is like some sort of cruel God of his universe. A first mover around which all other nations revolve, and can merely react to. There can be no other wicked actors without first blaming the prime wicked actor: America.

That is an excellent way of describing it.

 

[Cardinal]

Define "recovery" in the context of nuclear war.

Now that COVID 19 is finally on the wane, I'm sure your number of party invitations will skyrocket.

"Recovery" means that the radiation from the explosions settle and fade to background levels, and the earth returns as a recognizably life supporting biosphere. Humans wouldn't be destroyed in the process, but our civilization would be wrecked and the total population would be cut in half at least (and that's on the extremely optimistic end).

 

[Dayton3]

In a recent interview with the NewStatesman (yes, a liberal publication, but scores high on factual integrity and reliability .... and an interview you can see for yourself), Noam Chomsky, one of the great thinkers of our time (not to be confused with the DP poster, who is a pretty thinker in his own right) argued that we are approaching the MOST dangerous point in human history. Just look at the standoff in Eastern Europe and think about how we have ignored climate change, and to find foundation for his concern. The cited article (and see YouTube below): https://www.newstatesman.com/encoun...ing-the-most-dangerous-point-in-human-history







Although he marches to a different beat, Noam Chomsky remains of the great thinkers of our time. It isn't necessary to agree with him, but he sufficiently versed and articulate on politics and the human condition that you should at least hear what he has to say. If you wish to dismiss it, have good reason to do so as he ain't no crackpot.

Anyone have thoughts on this (other than simply to dismiss Chomsky as a crackpot, which would be a rather sub-intellectual response)?

Chomsky's an idiot. A self important doomsayer.

 

[multivita-man]

Chomsky's an idiot. A self important doomsayer.

Doesn't take a lot of brains to call someone an idiot. What is it about Chomsky that you think is wrong?

 

[Dayton3]

Doesn't take a lot of brains to call someone an idiot. What is it about Chomsky that you think is wrong?

He is obsessed with pointing out the things the U.S. has done wrong rather than the things it has done right. And people that pronounced dome and gloom are like I said self important doomsayers.

 

[multivita-man]

He is obsessed with pointing out the things the U.S. has done wrong rather than the things it has done right. And people that pronounced dome and gloom are like I said self important doomsayers.

I guess he figures that Fox News will point out all things the U.S. (under Republican presidents) has done right, so he'd rather focus on what the U.S. (under all presidents) has done wrong.

Make sense?

 

[Antiwar]

Noam Chomsky is excellent.

Has @upsideguy been absurdly added to the P**** lists, yet?

 

[Antiwar]

He is obsessed with pointing out the things the U.S. has done wrong rather than the things it has done right. And people that pronounced dome and gloom are like I said self important doomsayers.

Several parts of the USG are some of the biggest problems on the planet.

 

[Glitch]

In a recent interview with the NewStatesman (yes, a liberal publication, but scores high on factual integrity and reliability .... and an interview you can see for yourself), Noam Chomsky, one of the great thinkers of our time (not to be confused with the DP poster, who is a pretty thinker in his own right) argued that we are approaching the MOST dangerous point in human history. Just look at the standoff in Eastern Europe and think about how we have ignored climate change, and to find foundation for his concern. The cited article (and see YouTube below): https://www.newstatesman.com/encoun...ing-the-most-dangerous-point-in-human-history







Although he marches to a different beat, Noam Chomsky remains of the great thinkers of our time. It isn't necessary to agree with him, but he sufficiently versed and articulate on politics and the human condition that you should at least hear what he has to say. If you wish to dismiss it, have good reason to do so as he ain't no crackpot.

Anyone have thoughts on this (other than simply to dismiss Chomsky as a crackpot, which would be a rather sub-intellectual response)?

Only among the fanatical left is Noam Chomsky considered "one of the great thinkers of our time." To everyone else Noam Chomsky is an extreme leftist piece of shit and an anti-Semitic genocide denier. He holds the US to standards that he does not apply to any other nation. No wonder Democrat scum love him, he hates the US as much as they do.

 

[Glitch]

No, of course I didn't say anything about humans. All I was addressing was the rather depressing notion that earth could be turned into a lifeless rock floating in space. I mean...it could...just not because of anything we could do to it.

Here's a fun educational video on one of the ways earth's biosphere could really...truly...die.

Unfortunately, the "fun education video" you chose was wrong in a lot of areas. However, your premise that the Earth could be turned into a lifeless rock floating in space will eventually happen. In approximately another 500 million years the luminosity of the sun will increase by ~10%. That will be sufficient to completely boil off all the oceans and kill all complex life on Earth. The only life existing on Earth after that occurs will be thermophiles.

 

[Cardinal]

Unfortunately, the "fun education video" you chose was wrong in a lot of areas. However, your premise that the Earth could be turned into a lifeless rock floating in space will eventually happen. In approximately another 500 million years the luminosity of the sun will increase by ~10%. That will be sufficient to completely boil off all the oceans and kill all complex life on Earth. The only life existing on Earth after that occurs will be thermophiles.

The end of the sun was one of my two scenarios. What was wrong with the video?