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No, the "fabric" of America has not changed (1 Viewer)

(For the purposes of this entry, "fabric" means the every day Americans, not the make up of Congress or anything like that)

Many people, including my dad, have Donald Trump has a psychological trigger. This is not the Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) thing, This is more serious. People like my dad genuinely believed that because Trump had so many issues openly available and in the public domain (his felonies, the E. Jean Carroll verdict, etc.) that this would inherently disqualify him from running for office, just like it did Richard Nixon from holding office further when he resigned, or many other political figures. My dad has a moral compass. His sense of reality came crashing down when it conflicted with the true reality of the situation and has caused a very bad psychological problem. But this wasn't a moral compass election; it was an economic compass election.

The fabric of American society has not changed for as long as I've been alive (37 years). Americans care more about their pocketbook (heard of the phrase "pocketbook economics?") than they do any other issue. The American people do have a hard time finding a job, and do have a hard time making ends meet, especially because of the inflation caused by the Inflation Reduction Act. If Americans believe that a candidate will help them be wildly successful or give them an easy way out instead of doing hard work on themselves and coming up from the bottom, they will take it.

The Harris campaign was all about strengthening the social safety net. The government provides welfare so people can pick themselves up, work on themselves, and get a job and be successful. Trump offered a way of blaming other people for their failings (namely, immigrants or illegal immigrants) and offered a quicker way to success. Which is easier? A yearlong process to get a job, or a guy who comes out and says it's not your fault and blame somebody else? Most Americans would say the latter.

People say that the election showed that the so-called "fabric" of American society has changed, and that the election has changed it. No, this is also bunk. My dad knows a number of Trump supporters, and voting for the Orange Man hasn't changed them one bit. If you're like me, then you say that the election was the result of a collective bad choice (or good choice if you're pro-Trump), but that the vote didn't change who people are. Those Trump supporters who still look out for their neighbors and are kind-hearted are still looking out for their neighbors and are kind-hearted. The racist that supported Trump is still a racist. The women who supported Harris are still concerned with their bodily autonomy.

Nothing has changed, and yet people walk around thinking it's like this harbinger of the apocalypse or something stupid like that. IF anything, the election has shown that nothing has changed about society because people are still guided by their economic compass: basic pocketbook economics. In fact, it WOULD have been a huge change if it had been the other way around and people voted with a moral compass when they had been voting for 37 years (and more!) based on an economic one.
 
What I'm getting at is people always there's some sort of "fabric change" with a new election. Like the guy the media thinks won't win and is less qualified suddenly means society changes. No, the election of that guy who shouldn't win (in their eyes) is the symptom of a fabric change that they've totally missed. And for the past 10 years (or more), people have been more desensitized, more self-interested, less interested in the fate of America's democracy, etc. -- Trump simply exploited what was there for at least a decade or more. You go back 67 years I think you said. It's a gradual erosion.

But as far as the individual, their integrity and contributions to society (such as they may be) reman the same. If you're charitable, a vote for either Harris or Trump doesn't change the fact that you're charitable. If you're a rude person, your vote for either candidate won't change that. I mean, it's not like 95% of the voters for Trump woke up and decided to be misogynists for the rest of their lives, and it's not like the 95% or so of people who voted for Harris are suddenly going to act like saints. That's the fabric I'm getting at. Voting doesn't change the integrity (Again, such as it may be) of the individual, and nor does it change who they are as an individual. People have this tendency to think that someone who has made sound decisions their entire life, who made a bad decision and voted for either Harris or Trump (depending on whose side you're one), suddenly corrupts or pollutes their character. No, man. If that vote corrupted or polluted their character, then their character was already corrupted or polluted long before they stepped into the voting booth.
If you mean the average working Joe is still the average working Joe, sure. I don’t see why that matters though.
 
If you mean the average working Joe is still the average working Joe, sure. I don’t see why that matters though.
That's what I meant by the fabric of the nation has not changed. Same thing for the average Joe rich and the average Joe poor. It matters because people seem to think an upset election like this suddenly means America has changed. The election is a symptom of a change, not the change itself. People, especially in the media, do not understand that.
 
That's what I meant by the fabric of the nation has not changed. Same thing for the average Joe rich and the average Joe poor. It matters because people seem to think an upset election like this suddenly means America has changed. The election is a symptom of a change, not the change itself. People, especially in the media, do not understand that.
America has changed drastically by many much more important metrics.
 
The “fabric of America” has been forever altered, imo. It was like a zesty boinking session, started out slowly and then transitioned, fast! Not sure how the climax is gonna go…..🤷
 
It was a turn of phrase.

I contend that people no longer reacting to the moral degradation of society is an indictment on the fabric of the country, which has substantially changed.
No. It's partisan.

Before Reagan, we never had a divorced president, and Republicans were the first to stigmatize the divorced. But when the GOP ran Reagan, who was very popular for other reasons, Republicans fell over themselves making excuses for his very amicable divorce. The GOP would go on to run and elect Bush, Jr., who was divorced once, and Trump, who was divorced twice. But they had no problem bad-mouthing Harris's husband, who was divorced once.

Again, Democrat Bill Clinton had his various peccadillos (sp?), and the Democrats made excuses for him, while the Republicans were ready to tar and feather him. But when GOP bigwigs have had peccadillos, the GOP excuses them - who is more vulgar than Trump? He makes Bill Clinton look like an amateur.

It was scandalous for the GOP that Bush, Jr., admitted to trying cocaine when young, but they downplayed it, and it was a big deal for the Democrats that Obama smoked and had to try to quit in the White House - but they forgave him when he snuck a cig in the john.

Trump has done two things that do signal a substantive change.

He has made sexual and political vulgarity acceptable. It's okay for boys to be sexually vulgar boys, and it's okay to think neo-Nazis include some very nice people and loosen the moorings of the WWII Allies without which we'll never be a great nation. So he has also made the far right utterly shameless - it's okay not to have a sense of shame.

Second, he has lied more than any other president and is shameless about that even in its worst form - e.g., the Jan 6 thing. The GOP just excuses it, though any that respect truth are as horrified as Democrats about it. The GOP was willing to throw away Liz Cheney - she was a treasure they'll regret tossing when it's too late, and I say that as a liberal who disagreed with almost all her policy positions.

Those things have changed - shamelessness about vulgarity, whether of the political or the boys will be boys variety, and shameless support for lies rather than truth.
 
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That's what I meant by the fabric of the nation has not changed. Same thing for the average Joe rich and the average Joe poor. It matters because people seem to think an upset election like this suddenly means America has changed. The election is a symptom of a change, not the change itself. People, especially in the media, do not understand that.

SOMETHING has changed. Never before in American history could a 34-count convicted felon, rapist, financial fraud, liar, and traitor like Trump have been elected to the highest office in the land- let alone twice.
 
No. It's partisan.

Before Reagan, we never had a divorced president, and Republicans were the first to stigmatize the divorced. But when the GOP ran Reagan, who was very popular for other reasons, Republicans fell over themselves making excuses for his very amicable divorce. The GOP would go on to run and elect Bush, Jr., who was divorced once, and Trump, who was divorced twice. But they had no problem bad-mouthing Harris's husband, who was divorced once.

Again, Democrat Bill Clinton had his various peccadillos (sp?), and the Democrats made excuses for him, while the Republicans were ready to tar and feather him. But when GOP bigwigs have had peccadillos, the GOP excuses them - who is more vulgar than Trump? He makes Bill Clinton look like an amateur.

It was scandalous for the GOP that Bush, Jr., admitted to trying cocaine when young, but they downplayed it, and it was a big deal for the Democrats that Obama smoked and had to try to quit in the White House - but they forgave him when he snuck a cig in the john.

Trump has done two things that do signal a substantive change.

He has made sexual and political vulgarity acceptable. It's okay for boys to be sexually vulgar boys, and it's okay to think neo-Nazis include some very nice people and loosen the moorings of the WWII Allies without which we'll never be a great nation. So he has also made the far right utterly shameless - it's okay not to have a sense of shame.

Second, he has lied more than any other president and is shameless about that even in its worst form - e.g., the Jan 6 thing. The GOP just excuses it, though any that respect truth are as horrified as Democrats about it. The GOP was willing to throw away Liz Cheney - she was a treasure they'll regret tossing when it's too late, and I say that as a liberal who disagreed with almost all her policy positions.

Those things have changed - shamelessness about vulgarity, whether of the political or the boys will be boys variety, and shameless support for lies rather than truth.

We do everything they do, but they do it worse.
 
(For the purposes of this entry, "fabric" means the every day Americans, not the make up of Congress or anything like that)

Many people, including my dad, have Donald Trump has a psychological trigger. This is not the Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) thing, This is more serious. People like my dad genuinely believed that because Trump had so many issues openly available and in the public domain (his felonies, the E. Jean Carroll verdict, etc.) that this would inherently disqualify him from running for office, just like it did Richard Nixon from holding office further when he resigned, or many other political figures. My dad has a moral compass. His sense of reality came crashing down when it conflicted with the true reality of the situation and has caused a very bad psychological problem. But this wasn't a moral compass election; it was an economic compass election.

The fabric of American society has not changed for as long as I've been alive (37 years). Americans care more about their pocketbook (heard of the phrase "pocketbook economics?") than they do any other issue. The American people do have a hard time finding a job, and do have a hard time making ends meet, especially because of the inflation caused by the Inflation Reduction Act. If Americans believe that a candidate will help them be wildly successful or give them an easy way out instead of doing hard work on themselves and coming up from the bottom, they will take it.

The Harris campaign was all about strengthening the social safety net. The government provides welfare so people can pick themselves up, work on themselves, and get a job and be successful. Trump offered a way of blaming other people for their failings (namely, immigrants or illegal immigrants) and offered a quicker way to success. Which is easier? A yearlong process to get a job, or a guy who comes out and says it's not your fault and blame somebody else? Most Americans would say the latter.

People say that the election showed that the so-called "fabric" of American society has changed, and that the election has changed it. No, this is also bunk. My dad knows a number of Trump supporters, and voting for the Orange Man hasn't changed them one bit. If you're like me, then you say that the election was the result of a collective bad choice (or good choice if you're pro-Trump), but that the vote didn't change who people are. Those Trump supporters who still look out for their neighbors and are kind-hearted are still looking out for their neighbors and are kind-hearted. The racist that supported Trump is still a racist. The women who supported Harris are still concerned with their bodily autonomy.

Nothing has changed, and yet people walk around thinking it's like this harbinger of the apocalypse or something stupid like that. IF anything, the election has shown that nothing has changed about society because people are still guided by their economic compass: basic pocketbook economics. In fact, it WOULD have been a huge change if it had been the other way around and people voted with a moral compass when they had been voting for 37 years (and more!) based on an economic one.
How did your dad feel about Bill Clinton. I think he generated a BIG change in the fabric of the US.
 
SOMETHING has changed. Never before in American history could a 34-count convicted felon, rapist, financial fraud, liar, and traitor like Trump have been elected to the highest office in the land- let alone twice.
This speaks more to a gradual evolution of society, and perhaps its "fabric." It does not speak to my theory, which is that the election did not suddenly shift everything.
How did your dad feel about Bill Clinton. I think he generated a BIG change in the fabric of the US.
I think he actually likes Clinton. That was about the time the "fabric" began to evolve, became more permissive, and then we got to Trump as a symptom of said change, not as showing a sudden change in it.
 
This speaks more to a gradual evolution of society, and perhaps its "fabric." It does not speak to my theory, which is that the election did not suddenly shift everything.

I think he actually likes Clinton. That was about the time the "fabric" began to evolve, became more permissive, and then we got to Trump as a symptom of said change, not as showing a sudden change in it.
So...he wasn't bothered by Clinton's antics in the WH.

Okay.
 
Republicans and Midwestern Ind. voters cast ballots to hurt people they believe to be insufficiently 'American'. It's about the pain. It's about their parochial, ignorant, stupid little pockets of Christofascist identity. It's because they're lousy with self-doubt and self-loathing. They're weak, suspicious, fearful little kobolds. If you've convinced yourself it's about economics, you're a damned idiot and should probably just move on to the next stage of intellectual self-harm.
 
(For the purposes of this entry, "fabric" means the every day Americans, not the make up of Congress or anything like that)

Many people, including my dad, have Donald Trump has a psychological trigger. This is not the Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) thing, This is more serious. People like my dad genuinely believed that because Trump had so many issues openly available and in the public domain (his felonies, the E. Jean Carroll verdict, etc.) that this would inherently disqualify him from running for office, just like it did Richard Nixon from holding office further when he resigned, or many other political figures. My dad has a moral compass. His sense of reality came crashing down when it conflicted with the true reality of the situation and has caused a very bad psychological problem. But this wasn't a moral compass election; it was an economic compass election.

The fabric of American society has not changed for as long as I've been alive (37 years). Americans care more about their pocketbook (heard of the phrase "pocketbook economics?") than they do any other issue. The American people do have a hard time finding a job, and do have a hard time making ends meet, especially because of the inflation caused by the Inflation Reduction Act. If Americans believe that a candidate will help them be wildly successful or give them an easy way out instead of doing hard work on themselves and coming up from the bottom, they will take it.

The Harris campaign was all about strengthening the social safety net. The government provides welfare so people can pick themselves up, work on themselves, and get a job and be successful. Trump offered a way of blaming other people for their failings (namely, immigrants or illegal immigrants) and offered a quicker way to success. Which is easier? A yearlong process to get a job, or a guy who comes out and says it's not your fault and blame somebody else? Most Americans would say the latter.

People say that the election showed that the so-called "fabric" of American society has changed, and that the election has changed it. No, this is also bunk. My dad knows a number of Trump supporters, and voting for the Orange Man hasn't changed them one bit. If you're like me, then you say that the election was the result of a collective bad choice (or good choice if you're pro-Trump), but that the vote didn't change who people are. Those Trump supporters who still look out for their neighbors and are kind-hearted are still looking out for their neighbors and are kind-hearted. The racist that supported Trump is still a racist. The women who supported Harris are still concerned with their bodily autonomy.

Nothing has changed, and yet people walk around thinking it's like this harbinger of the apocalypse or something stupid like that. IF anything, the election has shown that nothing has changed about society because people are still guided by their economic compass: basic pocketbook economics. In fact, it WOULD have been a huge change if it had been the other way around and people voted with a moral compass when they had been voting for 37 years (and more!) based on an economic one.

I have been alive twice that long, and I can tell you without any reservations young man, that America votes based solely on their prejudices. Peoples fears and hatreds, will always be the deciding factor in what they choose, how they live, where they live, who they associate with, and who they vote for.

It is natural human behavior to choose sides, and segregate within tribes.

The most prosperous era of America was between 1945-1980. The American middleclass was never stronger.

And the segregation and divisions were never stronger.

If every man, woman, and child in America became millionaires today. Their actions would be based on their prejudices.

If every man, woman, and child were to be made poor today. Their actions would be based on their prejudices.

America has never had a moral compass. That is a complete myth, not backed up by fact or history.

There are individuals who have moral compasses, and not all of those to the same degree.

And there are just as many that have no moral compass at all.

While it is true, that there are many who will cast votes in elections based upon their economic condition. The overwhelming majority will cast their votes based entirely upon fear and loathing.
 

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