'No Saddam link to Iraq al-Qaeda'

Billo_Really · Sep 9, 2006

Originally posted by jujuman13
Why did Mr. Bush want to remove him from power.

I'll tell you why. Because UN sanctions were going to be lifted which would allow Iraq to sell oil on the open market again. And there was no way they would ever cut a deal with the US after 10 years of sanctions. So instead of being frozen out of any chance at Iraqi oil, Bush attacked!

That's why!

26 X World Champs · Sep 9, 2006

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
All the points presented in that blog are easily factchecked.

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

And we're supposed to take your word for it along with the word of your blog sites?

Question Trajan? If I used blogs to "prove" what I say is true would you accept it from me? So what makes you think that anyone would believe your bloggers?

26 X World Champs · Sep 9, 2006

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Powell based his assertion on intelligence reports which I don't have access to.

WOW! Major league cut and run TOT! You the man! This thread has not treated you kindly, now has it?

akyron · Sep 9, 2006

jfuh said:
Really? Nothing new? Then why did you vote "absolutely" to poll question: Was there a tie between Iraq and AQ before the US invasion?

There was technically more than one link. You should have worded the question differently.

Was there a formal tie to support each other (treaty) between Iraq and AQ before the US invasion?

I would have said no to that. Nevertheless there were "links"

memo detailing cooperation between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.

"lays out the intelligence in 50 numbered points--Iraq-al Qaeda contacts began in 1990 and continued through mid-March 2003, days before the Iraq War began. Most of the numbered passages contain straight, fact-based intelligence reporting, which some cases includes an evaluation of the credibility of the source. This reporting is often followed by commentary and analysis.

The relationship began shortly before the first Gulf War. According to reporting in the memo, bin Laden sent "emissaries to Jordan in 1990 to meet with Iraqi government officials." At some unspecified point in 1991, according to a CIA analysis, "Iraq sought Sudan's assistance to establish links to al Qaeda." The outreach went in both directions. According to 1993 CIA reporting cited in the memo, "bin Laden wanted to expand his organization's capabilities through ties with Iraq."

"bin Laden was receiving training on bomb making from the IIS's [Iraqi Intelligence Service] principal technical expert on making sophisticated explosives, Brigadier Salim al-Ahmed. Brigadier Salim was observed at bin Laden's farm in Khartoum in Sept.-Oct. 1995 and again in July 1996, in the company of the Director of Iraqi Intelligence, Mani abd-al-Rashid al-Tikriti. "

"Reporting entries #4, #11, #15, #16, #17, and #18, from different sources, corroborate each other and provide confirmation of meetings between al Qaeda operatives and Iraqi intelligence in Afghanistan and Pakistan. None of the reports have information on operational details or the purpose of such meetings. The covert nature of the relationship would indicate strict compartmentation [sic] of operations."

Is it really just the semantics that are bothering you or is all this really "news" to you?

Donkey1499 · Sep 9, 2006

I saw photos of terroist training camps in plain view of roads that were in Iraq. That's all the proof I need.

akyron · Sep 9, 2006

Arch Enemy said:
I think Saddam could have been a possible ally against Al-Qaeda if we would play the right damn cards.

I agree with that. He didnt like them and he did not like the US either. He could have landed on either side to play both sides against the middle. Saddam was kind of in a hard place because appearing a bit "Islamic" made his people easier to control but letting the clerics get out of control was bad news to him as well. Tough line to walk. I hope he writes his memoirs honestly before they whack him.

akyron · Sep 9, 2006

Donkey1499 said:
I saw photos of terroist training camps in plain view of roads that were in Iraq. That's all the proof I need.

There is more than one link between Iraq and terrorism.

Saddam Hussein's Philanthropy of Terror

The Man Who Got Away

"(CBS) Abdul Rahman Yasin is the only participant in the first attempt to blow up the World Trade Center in 1993 who was never caught. Yasin, who was indicted in the bombing but escaped, was interviewed by CBS News' Lesley Stahl in an Iraqi installation near Baghdad last Thursday, May 23. Stahl's report appeared on 60 Minutes, Sunday June 2nd."

Guess where Abdul ran after the first world trade center bombing?

26 X World Champs · Sep 9, 2006

Donkey1499 said:
I saw photos of terroist training camps in plain view of roads that were in Iraq. That's all the proof I need.

And you're not sharing that with us, how come? Shall we just take your word for it?

What is it with you guys? This thread has absolute and definitive proof that there were ZERO connections between Saddam & AQ yet some of you act as if this proof doesn't exist! Amazing!

It's kind of like if you were still stating that that bizarro who claimed to kill Jon Benet Ramsey really is guilty despite his being eliminated as a suspect! It's exactly the same.

You claim you saw pics but you don't show 'em to us.

TOT claims like 4 or 5 different things yet we have to either take his word or read bogus blogs....and we're supposed to ignore the findings of the REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED US SENATE COMMITTEE that absolutely blows all of your bogus claims out of the water.

CHRIST you guys are Bushaholics!

Donkey1499 · Sep 9, 2006

akyron said:
There is more than one link between Iraq and terrorism.

Saddam Hussein's Philanthropy of Terror

The Man Who Got Away

"(CBS) Abdul Rahman Yasin is the only participant in the first attempt to blow up the World Trade Center in 1993 who was never caught. Yasin, who was indicted in the bombing but escaped, was interviewed by CBS News' Lesley Stahl in an Iraqi installation near Baghdad last Thursday, May 23. Stahl's report appeared on 60 Minutes, Sunday June 2nd."

Guess where Abdul ran after the first world trade center bombing?

All those ppl who (in the beginning of your first link) said that Iraq had no ties to terrorism; were democrats. Interesting... especially since terrorists and dems share talking points anyways.

Donkey1499 · Sep 9, 2006

26 X World Champs said:
And you're not sharing that with us, how come? Shall we just take your word for it?

What is it with you guys? This thread has absolute and definitive proof that there were ZERO connections between Saddam & AQ yet some of you act as if this proof doesn't exist! Amazing!

It's kind of like if you were still stating that that bizarro who claimed to kill Jon Benet Ramsey really is guilty despite his being eliminated as a suspect! It's exactly the same.

You claim you saw pics but you don't show 'em to us.

TOT claims like 4 or 5 different things yet we have to either take his word or read bogus blogs....and we're supposed to ignore the findings of the REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED US SENATE COMMITTEE that absolutely blows all of your bogus claims out of the water.

CHRIST you guys are Bushaholics!

I saw the pics a long time ago, on Fox News Channel. I can't bring up something on here that I saw on a televised news report, or at least I don't know how or where to find it. Besides, why would I lie? Do you not trust me?

akyron · Sep 9, 2006

Donkey1499 said:
terrorists and dems share talking points anyways.

Now should we explore the question? Do democrats and terrorists have a formal link?
Hmmmmm

Donkey1499 · Sep 9, 2006

akyron said:
Now should we explore the question? Do democrats and terrorists have a formal link?
Hmmmmm

Well, they both hate Americans, Christians and Jews; just to name a few. Democrats believe that they DESERVE to be in power; Terrorists believe that they DESERVE to rule the world. There are more, but I'm lazy right now.

TheNextEra · Sep 9, 2006

Donkey1499 said:
Well, they both hate Americans, Christians and Jews; just to name a few. Democrats believe that they DESERVE to be in power; Terrorists believe that they DESERVE to rule the world. There are more, but I'm lazy right now.

Please, by all means. Call all your Republicans in the Senate and The House and TELL them to use this talking point. Please I encourage it. It will gurantee a democrat victory.

I hope you encourage other Republicans to use this talking point as well.

disneydude · Sep 9, 2006

The topic of this post is what many of us have known for years and that finally most Americans are finally coming to the realization. Even Bush himself slipped up in the latest interview with Katie Couric. Did you Bush apologists happen to see it when even your President stated that the hardest thing that he has had to do as President is linking the war in Iraq with the War on Terror........yeah.....duh!
But, as evidenced by the responses on this post....there are still the diehard Bush Apologists that will continue....in the face of all the evidence, continue to apologize and perpetuate the lies of the Bush regime. Are these people for real? Are they just plain ignorant? evil? or do they actually believe the stuff they print?
Its unbelievable to read what some of these people try to spin.

Donkey1499 · Sep 9, 2006

TheNextEra said:
Please, by all means. Call all your Republicans in the Senate and The House and TELL them to use this talking point. Please I encourage it. It will gurantee a democrat victory.

I hope you encourage other Republicans to use this talking point as well.

I can't see thru all the bullshit... how does it "...gurantee a democrat victory..."?

Donkey1499 · Sep 9, 2006

disneydude said:
The topic of this post is what many of us have known for years and that finally most Americans are finally coming to the realization. Even Bush himself slipped up in the latest interview with Katie Couric. Did you Bush apologists happen to see it when even your President stated that the hardest thing that he has had to do as President is linking the war in Iraq with the War on Terror........yeah.....duh!
But, as evidenced by the responses on this post....there are still the diehard Bush Apologists that will continue....in the face of all the evidence, continue to apologize and perpetuate the lies of the Bush regime. Are these people for real? Are they just plain ignorant? evil? or do they actually believe the stuff they print?
Its unbelievable to read what some of these people try to spin.

#1: I only watched Katie Couric ONCE, and that was to see Rush Limbaugh last Thursday on [C]atie's Broadcasting Syndicate (CBS). So I never saw the "interview".

#2: I'm basing my opinion of photos I saw on a Fox News Broadcast. The photos exist, it's just that it's midnight and I don't fell like searching across the web to produce them here. Perhaps tomorrow.

#3: I don't give a **** what Bush said to liberal Katie. Bush is slowly turning into a moderate. So he might say anything to the press to appease them right now.

I just have this feeling that there was a link besides. Usually when I get a feeling like that I'm either right or I gotta relieve some bowel stress...

TheNextEra · Sep 9, 2006

Donkey1499 said:
I can't see thru all the bullshit... how does it "...gurantee a democrat victory..."?

By the same mistake the Dems made with Bush. Focusing on him being the enemy. By doing so it disheartened Americans. Please use the same proven strategy to failure.

By calling dems the enemy and terrorist supporters, the republicans will also fail. Americans are TIRED of the bickering in Congress.

Donkey1499 · Sep 10, 2006

TheNextEra said:
By the same mistake the Dems made with Bush. Focusing on him being the enemy. By doing so it disheartened Americans. Please use the same proven strategy to failure.

No, the dems lost because they offered no programs that the Americans wanted. More taxes, more gov't involement in your life, lessened national security. Scary huh? Well, Bush has involved more gov't, and he likes amnesty for foreign criminals, but Bush is only half bad. Oh, and uh he screwed up SS and Medicare.... it's a love/hate thing with Bush and I really. Oh well, it could be worse. We could have John F---ing Kerry in there. He'd bend over and grab his ankles for the terrorist bastards. Bush on the otherhand won't. So America made a good choice in 04'.

Oh, I heard of a poll on Rush Limbaugh Radio Show that there are more conservative babies out there than liberal ones. The consevatives are doing all the breeding, while the "pro-choice" libs perhaps abort, maybe? so in about 15-20 years, there'll be more conservative voters than lib voters, assuming the variables stay in conservative favor. But it's just a poll so don't get your underpants in a wad.

Stinger · Sep 10, 2006

G-Man said:
You made a claim but provided no link or evidence.....if you want to allege something back it up. There is no source on this thread which confirms what you allege so it is unsubstantiated rumurs.

So you are saying it is factually untrue that he went to Iraq seeking medical treatment? Or you just never heard about it.

Now its months of treatment in hospital.....link pls.

Months weeks who cares. Are you stating as a matter of fact he never went there?

You can't prove a negative..if he was there give us a link.

Well you seem to assert that he never went there, so you must be basing that on something. What is it. If there is evidence disputing he went there then you should be able to show it.

"Zarqawi also has been sighted in Baghdad, Powell said. He traveled to Baghdad for medical treatment last May, staying there for two months "while he recuperated to fight another day," Powell said."
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/sprj.irq.alqaeda.links/

"One known terrorist, a Jordanian-born Palestinian named Abu Musab Zarqawi who had joined al Qaeda in Afghanistan -- where he specialized in developing chemical and biological weapons -- was now confirmed to operate from one of the camps in Iraq. Badly wounded fighting coalition forces in Afghanistan, Zarqawi had received medical treatment in Baghdad before setting up with Ansar al Islam. And evidence suggested that he had been joined there by other al Qaeda leaders, who had been ushered through Baghdad and given safe passage into northern Iraq by Iraqi security forces....[p. 332] And while many al Qaeda leaders had been killed [in Afghanistan], others had sought sanctuary in Iraq. [p. 403]"
General Tommy Franks, American Soldier

Trajan Octavian Titus · Sep 10, 2006

G-Man said:
Intelligence reports which US Intel have already admitted were unreliable and incorrect and led to alterations.
US intel stated he was at hospital in Baghdad having his leg (or part of) amputated. This was later changed, presumably when he started showing up on the net with both legs intact.
Looks to me like they have no real idea of what (if anything went on)

If thats the best you have to offer of a conclusive link between ALQ and Saddam I think I'll side with the Republican Senate's Intelligence Committee report which states there was no link.

According to this article 3 captured AQ operatives have testified to the veracity of the Saddam/Zarqawi link:

Spinning Zarqawi
What three al Qaeda terrorists had to say about Zarqawi's and al Qaeda's cooperation with Saddam.
by Thomas Joscelyn
06/15/2006 12:00:00 AM

There is abundant evidence that Saddam's regime, at the very least, tolerated Zarqawi's existence in regime-controlled areas of Iraq prior to the war. Moreover, at least three high-level al Qaeda associates have testified to Saddam's warm welcome for Zarqawi and his associates.

Consider what a top al Qaeda operative, Abu Zubaydah, told his CIA interrogators after his capture in March 2002. According to the Senate Intelligence Report, Zubaydah said "he was not aware of a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda." But, he added that "any relationship would be highly compartmented and went on to name al Qaeda members who he thought had good contacts with the Iraqis." Zubaydah "indicated that he heard that an important al-Qaida associate, Abu Mus'ab al-Zarqawi, and others had good relationships with Iraqi intelligence."

Zubaydah's testimony has since been further corroborated by a known al Qaeda ideologue, Dr. Muhammad al-Masari. Al-Masari operated the Committee for the Defense of Legitimate Rights, a Saudi oppositionist group and al Qaeda front, out of London for more than decade. He told the editor-in-chief of Al-Quds Al-Arabi that Saddam "established contact with the 'Afghan Arabs' as early as 2001, believing he would be targeted by the US once the Taliban was routed." Furthermore, "Saddam funded Al-Qaeda operatives to move into Iraq with the proviso that they would not undermine his regime."

Al-Masari also claimed that "Iraqi army commanders were ordered to become practicing Muslims and to adopt the language and spirit of the jihadis."
Just as Saddam ordered, many of Iraq's senior military and intelligence personnel joined or aided Zarqawi's jihad. Many of the more prominent supporters and members of Zarqawi's al Qaeda branch, in fact, came from the upper echelon of Saddam's regime. Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri (aka the "King of Clubs") and his sons allied with Zarqawi, as did members of Muhammad Hamza Zubaydi's (aka the "Queen of Spades") family. Zarqawi's allies included Muhammed Hila Hammad Ubaydi, who was an aide to Saddam's chief of staff of intelligence, and some of his more lethal operatives served as officers in Saddam's military, including Abu Ali, "Al-Hajji" Thamer Mubarak (whose sister attempted a martyrdom operation in Jordan), Abu-Ubaidah, and Abdel Fatih Isa.

In addition to Abu Zubaydah and Muhammad al-Masri, a third high-ranking al Qaeda associate has explained Saddam's support for al Qaeda prior to the war. Hudayfa Azzam, who is the son of one of al Qaeda's earliest and most influential leaders, Adullah Azzam, gave an interview with Agence France Presse in August 2004 in which he explained Saddam's support for al Qaeda's members as they relocated to Iraq:
"Saddam Hussein's regime welcomed them with open arms," Azzam explained, "and young al Qaeda members entered Iraq in large numbers, setting up an organization to confront the occupation." Al Qaeda's terrorists "infiltrated into Iraq with the help of Kurdish mujahideen from Afghanistan, across mountains in Iran." Once in Iraq, Saddam "strictly and directly" controlled their activities, Azzam added.

http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/334dhoqq.asp?pg=1

akyron · Sep 10, 2006

TheNextEra said:
By calling dems the enemy and terrorist supporters, the republicans will also fail.

Yeah its as dumb as saying Saddam had NO links to terrorists, China, France, Russia, the US, etc,etc...

Being right will never protect you. Good political moves will though. I think that is a big part of our problem.

Congressional and Senatorial bickering is old and passe. If they cant find a way to meet in the middle somewhere. What hope is there?
At least they arent beating each other up yet.

The washington police however need to watch their backs...
Cynthia McKinney Assaults Police Officer.

aps · Sep 10, 2006

Donkey1499 said:
I saw photos of terroist training camps in plain view of roads that were in Iraq. That's all the proof I need.

So did the United States have a link to al Qaeda since we had so many members here training to be pilots?

aps · Sep 10, 2006

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
That O'neill and Suskind are liars.

Tell me what you think they lied about. Please be specific.

The Philosopher · Sep 10, 2006

The ironic thing is, 43 percent of Americans still think there was a link between Iraq and al-Qaeda...check it out.

akyron · Sep 10, 2006

aps said:
So did the United States have a link to al Qaeda since we had so many members here training to be pilots?

You mean the 4 that snuck through security?

Pensacola NAS link faces more scrutiny

Apparently they train 6000 foreign pilots or so a year. Scary.

"foreign pilots contribute to the Pensacola-area economy, spending an estimated $10 million a year in local malls, restaurants and shops, the Security Assistance group has estimated."

I would say thats a link but not a "formal treaty" to train terrorists as some would weakly attempt to imply. Some terrorists did train in US flight schools. There is worse news than that but I will save that for later.

'No Saddam link to Iraq al-Qaeda'

Was there a tie between Iraq and AQ before the US invasion?

Absolutely

This has been played over and over, no, a definitive no.

Billo_Really

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disneydude

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aps

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akyron

'No Saddam link to Iraq al-Qaeda'

Was there a tie between Iraq and AQ before the US invasion?

Absolutely

This has been played over and over, no, a definitive no.

Passionate

Passionate

Member

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