No, Frozen Wind Turbines Did Not Cause the Texas Blackouts

[TomFitz]

Minnesota has 3.5 GW of wind power - about 20% of what failed in Texas. They also have costly winterization packages installed - based on the climate.

Solar is really a non- issue, but I doubt they produce significant energy on a good winter day, or any during a storm or when covered with ice.

Why would you say that?

Solar power is independent of exterior temperature, unless they’re covered with snow or ice. And the panels will shed the snow and ice before anything around them does.

 

[TomFitz]

Yeah the main problem you have with solar as you go further north is not the cold, but rather the lower angle of the sun.

I worked for a solar company, and the angle of the sun has little impact in the ability to generate solar power in most of the continental United States.

 

[TomFitz]

As I said, it depends on the source. You found one where it was slightly under half. That's still a big deal.

Both of then are astoundingly high!

I pay $0.67/kwh, half the rate you show for Texas and a third of the rate you show in California.

Thsi is the result of deregulation. I can buy my electricity wholesale from any supplier. That option isn’t even available in Texas. I don’t know about California. I am only wedded to the transmission infrastructure.

I also have solar panels and plan to install a solar wall at some point, so we never have to worry about the power going out, and so I can sell power back to the grid when I’m not using it.

 

[AncientGeek]

Wind - And they have far less production than Texas.

Solar - There's also shorter days, and again - the solar cells don't work when covered with ice and snow.

It happened before.
They were told it would happen again.
They did nothing.
People died.
They blamed the Green New Deal.

 

[TomFitz]

It happened before.
They were told it would happen again.
They did nothing.
People died.
They blamed the Green New Deal.

That about sums it up.

Blare a bogey man and get the bobble heads nodding in outrage.

Pefect campflage for your own incompetence and. corruption.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

The houses are being marketed as being 'green' because they don't have furnaces. (And as I said - more marketing hype than reality. It's cheaper for developers on the furnace - and in not running gas lines.)

They might market them as green, but they have nothing to do with the green movement. They have been selling all electric homes since the 1950s.

 

[roguenuke]

Again - on the power plants, it's not a regulation issue. They have to meet the federal regulations.

Deregulation refers to the sale.

No, they don't, not at the same level as other places because they are not on the national grid. That is why they did not have the required safety and cold protections in place.

If you disagree, provide a credible source to show otherwise.

 

[dcsports]

Why would you say that?

Solar power is independent of exterior temperature, unless they’re covered with snow or ice. And the panels will shed the snow and ice before anything around them does.

Only a fraction of our energy is produced by Solar, so it's loss during an event isn't a significant issue. They are also less efficient when the sun isn't high in the sky - limiting their practical help to a few hours on shortened winter day, and good weather, when not covered by snow/ice. In the Texas Ice storm - they were useless.

 

[dcsports]

No, they don't, not at the same level as other places because they are not on the national grid. That is why they did not have the required safety and cold protections in place.

If you disagree, provide a credible source to show otherwise.

Let me try to restate for you. Yes - the power generators have to meet the same national standards. The national standards do not require the same winterization (or preparations for heat, wind tolerance, etc.) in all parts of the country. There is variation on the local climate. So windmills in Texas or Florida aren't required to have the same cold protection as Minnesota or Michigan.

No one has said anything about safety.

 

[AncientGeek]

Only a fraction of our energy is produced by Solar, so it's loss during an event isn't a significant issue. They are also less efficient when the sun isn't high in the sky - limiting their practical help to a few hours on shortened winter day, and good weather, when not covered by snow/ice. In the Texas Ice storm - they were useless.

• Connexus’ solar arrays and battery storage have performed well during the past few weeks. In fact, they have been very productive.

Snow No More: Technology Keeps Solar Panels Clean

Snow No More: Technology Keeps Solar Panels Clean

Blizzard Solar, an international company that specializes in innovative solar technologies, has developed a system to combat snow accumulation.

www.solarpowerworldonline.com

A new way to remove ice buildup without power or chemicals

A new way to remove ice buildup without power or chemicals

MIT researchers led by Kripa Varanasi found a way to prevent icing of powerlines, airplanes, wind turbines, and other surfaces with a special coating and the power of sunlight — no heating or harsh chemicals needed.

news.mit.edu

Ice buildup on Solar Panels No More: Researchers Find Solution

Ice Buildup on Solar Panels No More: Researchers Find Solution - The Green Optimistic

Specialists have recently discovered the solution to a problem that could potentially threaten all man-made structures: the build-up of ice on their

www.greenoptimistic.com

 

[MTAtech]

I worked for a solar company, and the angle of the sun has little impact in the ability to generate solar power in most of the continental United States.

I have solar panels on my house in NY and and the angle of the sun has a large impact on the ability to generate solar power. May and June are the biggest generation months, at about 2 Mwh. It then falls off as the year goes on, with December producing about .5 Mwh. A commercial solar farm would have trackers that would mitigate some of that by angling the collectors. However, there is no disputing that the days are shorter in the winter than the summer.

The point for TX is that no one method is ideal. A good solution is to have wind, solar, nuclear and fossil.

 

[dcsports]

• Connexus’ solar arrays and battery storage have performed well during the past few weeks. In fact, they have been very productive.

Snow No More: Technology Keeps Solar Panels Clean

Snow No More: Technology Keeps Solar Panels Clean

Blizzard Solar, an international company that specializes in innovative solar technologies, has developed a system to combat snow accumulation.

www.solarpowerworldonline.com

A new way to remove ice buildup without power or chemicals

A new way to remove ice buildup without power or chemicals

MIT researchers led by Kripa Varanasi found a way to prevent icing of powerlines, airplanes, wind turbines, and other surfaces with a special coating and the power of sunlight — no heating or harsh chemicals needed.

news.mit.edu

Ice buildup on Solar Panels No More: Researchers Find Solution

Ice Buildup on Solar Panels No More: Researchers Find Solution - The Green Optimistic

Specialists have recently discovered the solution to a problem that could potentially threaten all man-made structures: the build-up of ice on their

www.greenoptimistic.com

"performed well" is relative. In general they produce 1% of the state's power. Science says that they simply can't produce the same level of electricity in the winter, when it's overcast, or when covered. In a situation like what Texas endured, they are useless. Overall, they are a non-factor when it comes to emergency power in bad weather.

Note - I'm not saying solar doesn't have applications. It makes a lot of sense in some cases - especially local applications where, for example, you are supplementing energy for daytime needs.

 

[roguenuke]

Let me try to restate for you. Yes - the power generators have to meet the same national standards. The national standards do not require the same winterization (or preparations for heat, wind tolerance, etc.) in all parts of the country. There is variation on the local climate. So windmills in Texas or Florida aren't required to have the same cold protection as Minnesota or Michigan.

No one has said anything about safety.

This is obviously a safety issue since not having proper winterization of power generation equipment, regardless of the type, is an issue that leads to loss of electricity and loss of life, and even worse, potential loss of power for nuclear power plants, which could result in reactor problems, which could lead to meltdowns.

And Texas gets cold weather. This is not something that is like the pandemic, once a century. This has happened before to them since my youngest child has been born (I just dropped him off at his elementary school, to give you context). They do need cold protection, and this proves it, eventhough they were told they needed to do it decades ago.

 

[AncientGeek]

"performed well" is relative. In general they produce 1% of the state's power. Science says that they simply can't produce the same level of electricity in the winter, when it's overcast, or when covered. In a situation like what Texas endured, they are useless. Overall, they are a non-factor when it comes to emergency power in bad weather.

Note - I'm not saying solar doesn't have applications. It makes a lot of sense in some cases - especially local applications where, for example, you are supplementing energy for daytime needs.

Yes, it does have applications. I have a game camera with a 4x6" solar panel. The battery level is recorded with each picture. It is almost always at 100% and has never fallen below 94% this winter in Minnesota. Low sun, short days, snow and freezing rain.

 

[Vern]

The charts tell the story Vern. Notice the source that delivered power and those that didn’t.

I actually thought the chart was gibberish because it mad no sense to me. And I pointed out the spin in your editorial. I've actually scheduled next day generation in the past. Sure, I wasnt very good but I understand the lingo. Funny story, they took me from my regular job and made a scheduler for the summer so people could take vacation. FYI, summer is not when you want a newbie scheduling generation. Anyhoo, the important thing is what generation didnt come on when it was supposed to come on. Even your silly editorial told you gas plants failed to come on for about half the load. That's more of a big deal than your editorial made it.

Hey since you seem to understand your chart, so much so that you think it proves something, please explain it to me. thanks in advance.

 

[Bullseye]

I actually thought the chart was gibberish because it mad no sense to me. And I pointed out the spin in your editorial. I've actually scheduled next day generation in the past. Sure, I wasnt very good but I understand the lingo. Funny story, they took me from my regular job and made a scheduler for the summer so people could take vacation. FYI, summer is not when you want a newbie scheduling generation. Anyhoo, the important thing is what generation didnt come on when it was supposed to come on. Even your silly editorial told you gas plants failed to come on for about half the load. That's more of a big deal than your editorial made it.

Hey since you seem to understand your chart, so much so that you think it proves something, please explain it to me. thanks in advance.

The link does a good job explaining the charts, Vern. There is also a source link in the one I posted - it goes into far more detail on what the charts are demonstrating.

 

[CaughtInThe]

It happened before.
They were told it would happen again.
They did nothing.
People died.
They blamed the Green New Deal.

that sums it up.

 

[uptower]

Only a fraction of our energy is produced by Solar, so it's loss during an event isn't a significant issue. They are also less efficient when the sun isn't high in the sky - limiting their practical help to a few hours on shortened winter day, and good weather, when not covered by snow/ice. In the Texas Ice storm - they were useless.

Solar cells absorb light, transfer and store energy. They don't have to be collecting on Tuesday for the grid to deliver Monday's haul. And again Texas did not prove that solar and wind are less reliable than other forms of energy in a storm; it proved all forms of energy are less reliable when state leadership deregulates, privatizes and neglects them.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Five bucks says Texas spends very little money to fix their problem.

And then we're having this same discussion in 5 or 10 or 20 or 30 years.

 

[AncientGeek]

This, and imbedded links do a pretty good job explaining the Texas problems

Check out this chart:

View attachment 67319405

That little green wave is wind power.

More on sources:
View attachment 67319406

Doesn’t speak very well on “renewables”, does it?

It does not speak well for any implementation of electric generation in Texas. "Renewables" do just fine in Minnesota, thanks. But I guess our winter is not as bad as Texas. . .

 

[Vern]

The link does a good job explaining the charts, Vern. There is also a source link in the one I posted - it goes into far more detail on what the charts are demonstrating.

the link and the charts didnt really explain anything to justify "It was the “green” energy sources that failed to show up for work:" It literally told you "gas plants didnt show up for half the load". And it showed it was biased by posting: " despite roughly 30 GW being inoperable due to frozen pipelines holding up fuel. " It was pipes, wells and station equipment. Even you know that nuclear and coal dont need gas pipes. so why didnt your silly editorial mention that "coal and nuclear" didnt show up to work either? because its a lying editorial. anyhoo, dont feel bad you couldnt explain it. I figured it was another "hey this editorial tells me what I want to believe even though I dont understand it" post.

as far as the "source link" goes, the Center on the American Experiment also doesnt understand generation. it said " 15 GW of wind energy that could not generate electricity due to wind turbines freezing. This is roughly 50 percent of all wind and solar capacity on the Texas grid." First, it seems to be adding "forced outage to scheduled outage". As you see from the second chart you didnt understand, not much was expected from wind so "15 GW" number is false. The only question is the CAE lying or just dumb. Since its a conservative "think" tank, I'll assume its lying. This is the number you need to focus on instead of obediently believing conservative sites.

Wind shutdowns accounted for 3.6 to 4.5 gigawatts -- or less than 13% -- of the 30 to 35 gigawatts of total outages, according to Woodfin.

Woodfin is the Senior Director of ERCOT. when he says "outages" he means forced outages, ie didnt generate as expected.

 

[Bullseye]

It does not speak well for any implementation of electric generation in Texas. "Renewables" do just fine in Minnesota, thanks. But I guess our winter is not as bad as Texas. . .

You guys might just be a little more skilled and expert in weather proofing and handling cold weather.

 

[AncientGeek]

You guys might just be a little more skilled and expert in weather proofing and handling cold weather.

This was totally a man made disaster and the men who made it are trying to shift the blame elsewhere.

 

[diz]

This was totally a man made disaster and the men who made it are trying to shift the blame elsewhere.

What does that even mean? Sure, everything to do with an electric grid is man made. But it’s certainly not correct to say nature had no impact here on this outcome.

 

[Bullseye]

This was totally a man made disaster and the men who made it are trying to shift the blame elsewhere.

Man made it snow?