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No biological sex

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Ignatius

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An old story from the Washington Times (12/2016) but I thought it would be worth a discussion. The article says in part:

"A lecturer at the University of Toronto says the notion of "biological sex"-- that humans are born either make or female -- is a "very popular misconception.""

It goes on: ""Basically, it's not correct that there is such a thing as biological sex,"......"for ever 50 years scientists have shown that that's not true.""

Do people buy this? There are such thing as make and female? Really?
 
Ignatius said:
An old story from the Washington Times (12/2016) but I thought it would be worth a discussion. The article says in part:

"A lecturer at the University of Toronto says the notion of "biological sex"-- that humans are born either make or female -- is a "very popular misconception.""

It goes on: ""Basically, it's not correct that there is such a thing as biological sex,"......"for ever 50 years scientists have shown that that's not true.""

Do people buy this? There are such thing as make and female? Really?
Click to expand...

Nope, if one's sex (at birth) can't be determined then how can it be (legally) recorded or changed?
 
Ignatius said:
An old story from the Washington Times (12/2016) but I thought it would be worth a discussion. The article says in part:

"A lecturer at the University of Toronto says the notion of "biological sex"-- that humans are born either make or female -- is a "very popular misconception.""

It goes on: ""Basically, it's not correct that there is such a thing as biological sex,"......"for ever 50 years scientists have shown that that's not true.""

Do people buy this? There are such thing as make and female? Really?
Click to expand...

No I don't buy it. But it could be due to the vernacular he's using, 'sex' versus using 'gender'. I don't know what kind of background this lecturer has but if it was in biology and physiology he would know that sex is determined genetically by chromosomes. I mean, that's just a simple fact that applies to any living thing in nature, even in plants. Gender (there are 4 genders) is quite different and more difficult to define since gender is determined by multiple factors. Let's just say that a person's gender is formulated in their brains where many social things are the influence, while sex is formulated between their legs influenced by genetics.
 
HumblePi said:
No I don't buy it. But it could be due to the vernacular he's using, 'sex' versus using 'gender'. I don't know what kind of background this lecturer has but if it was in biology and physiology he would know that sex is determined genetically by chromosomes. I mean, that's just a simple fact that applies to any living thing in nature, even in plants. Gender (there are 4 genders) is quite different and more difficult to define since gender is determined by multiple factors. Let's just say that a person's gender is formulated in their brains where many social things are the influence, while sex is formulated between their legs influenced by genetics.
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Well the article describes him as "...an historian who teaches a class on transgender studies as a part of the university's Sexual Diversity Studies program..."

What are the 4 genders?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Nope, if one's sex (at birth) can't be determined then how can it be (legally) recorded or changed?
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I don't know but If sex can be determined at birth can it be said thatbthete is no such thing as biological sex? That's the question.
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
Nope, if one's sex (at birth) can't be determined then how can it be (legally) recorded or changed?
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Ones name can also be determined at birth. Yet as an an adult, one can also change their name legally.
 
soylentgreen said:
Ones name can also be determined at birth. Yet as an an adult, one can also change their name legally.
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I'm not arguing but doesn't determined suggest that something is unchanging if it's determined? Like seeing the genitalia determines the baby's sex. Or the chromosomes determine sex. Even if a man becomes a woman the chromosomes don't change.
 
Ignatius said:
Well the article describes him as "...an historian who teaches a class on transgender studies as a part of the university's Sexual Diversity Studies program..."

What are the 4 genders?
Click to expand...

Persons may be women or girls, boys or men, who are cisgender, trans, or non-binary.
 
It is a question of semantics. Chromosomes are unchanging. What we call humans with and without a Y chromosome and how we treat them and what we expect of them is a question for culture, not science, and can be changed at will. All that is needed is cultural support of the change.
 
Ignatius said:
I'm not arguing but doesn't determined suggest that something is unchanging if it's determined?
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'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'

Like seeing the genitalia determines the baby's sex. Or the chromosomes determine sex. Even if a man becomes a woman the chromosomes don't change.
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If the chromosomes exist then there is always the possibility that the male chromosome may become dominant in a female body or female in a male body. So any medical changes would be matching the body to the determined chromosome.
 
HumblePi said:
Persons may be women or girls, boys or men, who are cisgender, trans, or non-binary.
Click to expand...

So the 4 genders are woman, girl, man and boy? And cisgender, trans and non binary are what? Do why does NY city recognize 31 genders?
 
lwf said:
It is a question of semantics. Chromosomes are unchanging. What we call humans with and without a Y chromosome and how we treat them and what we expect of them is a question for culture, not science, and can be changed at will. All that is needed is cultural support of the change.
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Chromosomes are unchanging and determine an entities sex. No cultural support can change what the chromosomes say about the entities sex. Correct?
 
soylentgreen said:
'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'



If the chromosomes exist then there is always the possibility that the male chromosome may become dominant in a female body or female in a male body. So any medical changes would be matching the body to the determined chromosome.
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Oh good for you.

In the vast majority of cases an entity has either XX or XY chromosomes. Either female or male. That doesn't change does it?
 
Ignatius said:
Chromosomes are unchanging and determine an entities sex. No cultural support can change what the chromosomes say about the entities sex. Correct?
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Culture determines what "sex" means. If culture determines that male = Y chromosome, then that's what male means. If culture determines that it means something else, then it does. The only thing that culture doesn't determine is chromosomal differences and the reproductive process. These are facts. How humans of opposite or same chromosomes "ought" to interact, how they should behave, and what we should label them as, is 100% cultural.
 
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Ignatius said:
Oh good for you.

In the vast majority of cases an entity has either XX or XY chromosomes. Either female or male. That doesn't change does it?
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It does in other species. The ability for chromosomes to change is inherent in the genes. There is no rule that says the chromosome must match the physical body. A parent might comment that there boy was born with his mothers eyes.
 
lwf said:
Culture determines what "sex" means. If culture determines that male = Y chromosome, then that's what male means. If culture determines that it means something else, then it does. The only thing that culture doesn't determine is chromosomal differences and the reproductive process. These are facts. How humans of opposite or same chromosomes "ought" to interact, how they should behave, and what we should label them as is 100% cultural.
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Chromosomes don't change. Culture cannot change chromosomes. Is that not clear enough for you? What words do you want to use to distinguish between the 2 different chromosomal structures? WTF
 
Ignatius said:
I know they are different but you indicated There are onlyb4 but NY citybm recognizes 31. Why do you only recognize 4 while they recognize 31?
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I think to answer why 31 you should be reading books by authors such as the marquis de sade.
 
soylentgreen said:
It does in other species. The ability for chromosomes to change is inherent in the genes. There is no rule that says the chromosome must match the physical body. A parent might comment that there boy was born with his mothers eyes.
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We aren't 5aiming about other species are we?????? They don't change. Bruce or whatever his name is now Jenner is still a male of the species of which he is a part. We all want to CALL him a female? Fine, I have no problem with that but he is still a male of the species.
 
Ignatius said:
Chromosomes don't change. Culture cannot change chromosomes. Is that not clear enough for you? What words do you want to use to distinguish between the 2 different chromosomal structures? WTF
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Whichever words culture says are the correct ones.
 
Ignatius said:
We aren't 5aiming about other species are we?????? They don't change. Bruce or whatever his name is now Jenner is still a male of the species of which he is a part. We all want to CALL him a female? Fine, I have no problem with that but he is still a male of the species.
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Not if culture as a whole decides that she is a female. In that case the only thing you could say was that she was a member of the species with a Y chromosome. If you called her male in such a culture, you would be misusing that word.
 
lwf said:
Whichever words culture says are the correct ones.
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Right culture only determines what we CALL members of the species that have XX or XY chromosomes. Culture doesn't determine sex.
 
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