No amnesty before border is secured, e-verify for all employers and enforcement.

[clownboy]

Whatever dude.

If you can't deal with the reality that some people think that way, that's your problem, not mine.

I've been here for years and people do think this.

There was one guy who use to say the border should be mined and machine gun nests set up across the entire border to kill any man, woman or child that tries to cross illegally.

I'm not making **** up here.

As have I (been here for years). And again, what you see in the extreme posts is FRUSTRATION, not serious solutions. Frustration because the real and effective solutions have been around for years and are ignored for amnesty and the busted meme of mass deportation keeps being ressurected by the amnesty seekers.

 

[jamesrage]

Look, if I lived in a country where this was happening, I might be a bit pissed off too.

However you have to be REALISTIC.

Those people are in your country and they're not going anywhere so you need to come up with a way to fix the problem.

If you crack down on the scum who hire them and make it extremely difficult for people to live here illegally then they will go home. They fled states that started cracking down on illegal immigration,they didn't needed to be grant amnesty nor did they need to be rounded up. They went to the states that turn a blind eye to illegal immigration.

Mass deportations is not the answer.Every mass deportation, EVERY single one in human history has always ended in extreme violence.

I do not think anyone who is actually against illegal immigration has suggested that mass deportation is the only answer. Besides deportation wouldn't be permanent unless we actually secured our borders and enacted and enforce laws that would make it extremely difficult for anyone to live here illegally.

The cost of doing it would be exponential.

No it wouldn't.We give away at least 37 billion a year to other countries and waste billions more on **** we don't need, so cost is irrelevant.

The human cost of legal immigrants getting caught in the crossfire and deported in the chaos would really make you look bad on the world stage, you'd be tearing apart families, communities, not to mention you do realise you would be forcing other human beings to do these things, taking a human toll on them as well.

You can only tear so many families from their homes violently before you start to question whether it was worth it.

Multiply the cost of doing this mass deportation with riots that would ensue, damage to cities, businesses, infrastructure, disruptions to vital services and trade.

Nothing more than fear mongering BS. We have had mass deportation in this country with Operation wetback and Mexican repatriation.

And mass deportation isn't one of those options unless you really do want a massive police state.

Seeing how it worked before in this country it is one of those options. Just like cracking down on the scum who hire illegals and mandating e-verify,and mandating that ID or driver's licenses for state services and many other things are options.We do not need amnesty.

 

[Arbo]

No, that's NOT what he said and you quoted and that's not what folks suggest. "one by one as you catch them" is NOT "mass deportation". And for the thousandth time, folks say all sorts of things in frustration (the "kill them" part).

They do not read what was actually written, they make up stuff, as is apparent by his posts.

 

[brothern]

Who gives a crap? If they want to be part of our society, they should have come here legally. They are in the spot their are in due to THEIR OWN ACTIONS.

Screw them. Catch them one by one and either ship them back to mexico, or do as mexico does to illegals and KILL THEM.

I have a large social group and travel in both educated and not so very much circles. I know many people who are in the United States that are non-citizen permanent residents or here illegally. Some of them are unemployed or not doing anything with their lives, but I can name at least a dozen non-citizens who are doctors, lawyers, engineers, and young professionals. But even with their educations, these people do not have a chance to become citizens. They were brought here as children, or are unmarried or don't have the wealth to hire immigration lawyers.

I don't know about you, but I want our country to be the best that it can be. I want our country to succeed. Throwing these educated, successful people out is the exact opposite of what we want to do. Nor could we "deport them back to Mexico," because none of these immigrants are even from Mexico.

Lastly attacking them as criminals for the simple fact that by sheer coincidences YOU were born as an American; and also labeling them as "Mexican" makes it seem like you're the one with a problem.

 

[brothern]

Do you feel the same empathy for your second-class citizens that are deprived of a normal life because they were convicted of possessing a small amount of marijuana maybe 20 or 30 years ago? Millions of them. Some are still rotting in prison for their consenting crimes. Could we first issue them full pardons before we reward a new set of criminals, illegal aliens, with a better life and opportunity?

... and I'm all for decriminalizing marijuana, but that has no relevancy to the topic at hand.

 

[Hard Truth]

If you crack down on the scum who hire them ......

The "scum" who hire illegal immigrants includes large agricultural and other corporations and rich people, including many politicians, with nannies, gardeners and maids. There will never be a major crackdown

 

[Arbo]

or are unmarried or don't have the wealth to hire immigration lawyers.

If they are doctors and lawyers and do not have funds for an immigration lawyer, they are doing it wrong.

Lastly attacking them as criminals for the simple fact that by sheer coincidences YOU were born as an American;

There is a legal process for coming to this country, hell, for coming to ANY country. If you sidestep that process, you are breaking the laws of that country. If you are breaking the laws of the country, you clearly do not respect the laws of that country AND are a criminal. Pure and simple. We do not need people that do not respect the laws of the country, no matter what profession they are.

I have spent a good bit of time in Germany for work. You know what I did prior to traveling there? I learned about their laws, and I learned enough of the language to get me by, and while there I learned more. When others that come here show the same respect for this country, maybe I'll start giving a crap about them.

 

[brothern]

They are here illegally.They should never get to be able to do any of those things in this country. We should do everything we can to encourage them to go back home by doing the following.

It's amazing. Here I am, as a white kid, who has done many a stupid things in my youth. I never did anything serious, but I had many teachers, officials and authority figures in my life give me breaks. I turned out all the better for it, even if I'm still getting parking tickets and speeding tickets. That's the definition lawbreaking. I'm certain that every poster on this board has done it too, yourself include.

Yet, the only thing the anti-immigrant voices talk about is ILLEGALITY, as if this should circumscribe a person to everlasting condemnation. That we should drive smart, educated people out of this country for what really is a minor offense. Immigrants aren't plundering, ravaging, killing or destroying the country. Would any of us not take the opportunity to provide for our families if we were an impoverished Guatemalan?

1.Crack down on the scum who hire illegals.Treat them no different than we do drug dealers and other criminals who profit from and or use their money for illegal activities.

2. In order to get any ID or driver's license you present a birth certificate, green card, or certificate of naturalization and social security card.After that require a state issued ID or driver's license in order to the following-

-enroll yourself into school
-enroll your minor kids into school
-apply for welfare,food stamps,section 8 housing and any other tax payer assistance for yourself and or your children
-get a business license,fishing/hunting permit,building permit, license to practice law, food handlers permit, gun license(in states that require a permit to buy a gun),concealed carry permit(in states that require a license to conceal carry) or any other tax payer funded service
-open a bank account, cash a check, use a credit/debit/pre-paid card, apply for a loan,or wire money.
-rent,borrow,lease or buy property
-rent,borrow,lease or buy a motor vehicle.
-get legal documents for yourself or your children.
-get utilities
​

3.Mandate E-verify for every employer.

4.Repeal part of the immigration and nationality act of 1965 that allows for the chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children.This would virtually eliminate anchor babies.


These solutions would make it extremely hard for illegals to get a job and for illegals to profit from their illegal residence in the US.
Maybe you want to live in a weak, debilitated country with no potential. I certainly don't.

You sound like the East German Stasi. "Freedom for me, but not for thee?" I always go to our founding documents for this:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ... The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

I'm sooo certain that our Founding Fathers would have loved to persecute immigrants like "drug dealers and other criminals."

 

[lizzie]

Yet, the only thing the anti-immigrant voices talk about is ILLEGALITY, as if this should circumscribe a person to everlasting condemnation. That we should drive smart, educated people out of this country for what really is a minor offense. Immigrants aren't plundering, ravaging, killing or destroying the country. Would any of us not take the opportunity to provide for our families if we were an impoverished Guatemalan?

There is a reason that countries have borders, and that is to control their population growth and help balance the economy. I sympathize with the many people who would love to live here, and did not happen to be born here, but they need to immigrate through legal channels, not cross illegally.

 

[specklebang]

... and I'm all for decriminalizing marijuana, but that has no relevancy to the topic at hand.

You are deliberately missing my point Sir. It is completely relevant. Maybe that's why you haven't really answered my question.

BTW, I'm pro-immigration and I think we should increase our quotas. I just think that quality, not sympathy, should be the basis of awarding the values of American citizenship. For alll the bitching, no American citizens live in mud huts or starve to death. This is a great country with lots of powerful safety nets and opportunities. Getting to be an American is a reward.

First though, we should take care of our own. Even if drugs remain illegal, should we forgive those millions already convicted whose lives have been ruined by that conviction? Isn't that more important then forgiving those who are committing their crimes right now by unlawfully living here?

 

[brothern]

If they are doctors and lawyers and do not have funds for an immigration lawyer, they are doing it wrong.

Do you have any idea how long doctors and lawyers spend in poverty doing grunt work before they start making money? When I said "young professionals," I'm not talking about 50 year old at the top of their careers. I'm talking 20 and 30 year olds, who are just starting their practices. We're talking five figure sums here.

There is a legal process for coming to this country, hell, for coming to ANY country. If you sidestep that process, you are breaking the laws of that country. If you are breaking the laws of the country, you clearly do not respect the laws of that country AND are a criminal. Pure and simple. We do not need people that do not respect the laws of the country, no matter what profession they are.

I have spent a good bit of time in Germany for work. You know what I did prior to traveling there? I learned about their laws, and I learned enough of the language to get me by, and while there I learned more. When others that come here show the same respect for this country, maybe I'll start giving a crap about them.

Und ich auch. Zwei Jahren in Bonn, wo wir eine grosse Immigranten-Community hatten. Ich kann auch Deutsch und hatte die Gesetze gelernt und befolgt, aber heisst, dass ich einen reichen Amerikaner bin. Die Immigranten war die Arbeitnehmern und Ladenbesitzern.

I was given a pass as an American. I spoke in German, and would get responded to in English. I got to skip all of the lines in the airport when I pulled out my American passport. I didn't fill out my residency application right; yeah, we'll just fix it for you. In contrast to the only instance of racism that I have ever personally experience, which was when I was with my Turkish friends. Dark haired people were not allowed in certain establishments, as I was informed.

Perhaps it would be nicer if America's immigrants were treated like I was treated, instead of what some of the posters on this thread seem to view them as.

 

[brothern]

There is a reason that countries have borders, and that is to control their population growth and help balance the economy. I sympathize with the many people who would love to live here, and did not happen to be born here, but they need to immigrate through legal channels, not cross illegally.

I'm not arguing for open borders. I'm arguing for letting people who are already here have a chance at citizenship, instead of raging about amnesty, illegality and those dirty Mexicans. Our system is broke. We have 11 million illegal immigrants in this country, which is 4% of the country. It needs to be fixed and a brokered deal with both citizenship and improved border integrity is necessary.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

I'm all for legalizing (for the second time) all the alien invaders,
33 million new non-Republican voters will not only hasten our demise
but finally once and for all end this incessant partisan bickering.
Watching a train wreck in slow motion is just to blasted boring.
Let's get this over with!

 

[lizzie]

I'm not arguing for open borders. I'm arguing for letting people who are already here have a chance at citizenship, instead of raging about amnesty, illegality and those dirty Mexicans. Our system is broke. We have 11 million illegal immigrants in this country, which is 4% of the country. It needs to be fixed and a brokered deal with both citizenship and improved border integrity is necessary.

I'm arguing for closed borders, and sending those who came here illegally, back. I don't care what the percentages are.

 

[Arbo]

I'm not arguing for open borders. I'm arguing for letting people who are already here have a chance at citizenship, instead of raging about amnesty, illegality and those dirty Mexicans. Our system is broke. We have 11 million illegal immigrants in this country, which is 4% of the country. It needs to be fixed and a brokered deal with both citizenship and improved border integrity is necessary.

Our system is not 'broke'. Our government merely is not doing their job and enforcing the laws. And BTW, the left will NEVER actually do anything that involves actually securing the border. They said they did in the past, and it was lies. They reneged on their end of the deal before, and would again.

 

[brothern]

I'm arguing for closed borders, and sending those who came here illegally, back. I don't care what the percentages are.

How kind and libertarian of you.

 

[lizzie]

How kind and libertarian of you.

Yeah, libertarians do tend to favor a strong system of laws, which are enforced.(and your attempts to make me feel guilty won't work)

 

[Arbo]

Yeah, libertarians do tend to favor a strong system of laws, which are enforced.(and your attempts to make me feel guilty won't work)

That is the general philosophy, obviously some don't seem to understand that and mislabel themselves.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

I can only tell you what I witnessed first hand starting in the 60's here in Phoenix, AZ
an lemme tell ya It ain't purdy

 

[brothern]

Yeah, libertarians do tend to favor a strong system of laws, which are enforced.(and your attempts to make me feel guilty won't work)

Conservatives and Communists favor a strong system of laws. Whereas we hold individual liberty and political freedom in the highest regards, and oppose most all forms of authoritarianism and the authoritarian state.

Maybe you should reconsider your political alignment?

 

[clownboy]

I'm not arguing for open borders. I'm arguing for letting people who are already here have a chance at citizenship, instead of raging about amnesty, illegality and those dirty Mexicans. Our system is broke. We have 11 million illegal immigrants in this country, which is 4% of the country. It needs to be fixed and a brokered deal with both citizenship and improved border integrity is necessary.

Yes, that's precisely what you're arguing for. Those already here are here illegally, they committed a crime to come or to stay here. They are NOT immigrants. In fact, if they weren't here we just might have some more room on our plate for real immigrants.

And if you know someone here illegally who is practicing medicine or law and haven't reported them, you are aiding and abetting in a crime (practicing medicine/law without a license), not to mention allowing those folks to continue to put the lives of others in jeopardy.

The attempt to make this about "dirty Mexicans" is lame and that tactic has long been debunked. Yes, the vast majority of our illegal population is from south of the border and enters through Mexico. The only thing that needs to be fixed is in enforcement.

 

[lizzie]

Conservatives and Communists favor a strong system of laws. Whereas we hold individual liberty and political freedom in the highest regards, and oppose most all forms of authoritarianism and the authoritarian state.

Maybe you should reconsider your political alignment?

Um, no, I shouldn't reconsider. My political stance is pretty much based on my reasoning ability. I oppose authoritarianism regarding how I live my personal life and practice my freedoms, but I am intelligent enough to realize that not everyone can handle freedom without trying to take advantage of others, thus laws to protect the individual from having his rights encroached upon by others, are necessary.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

There is no reason to reward anyone for illegal activities. I wouldn't reward a "squatter" on my property, why would our government even give consideration to such a notion even after the border is secure. Just implement e-verify, impose stiff criminal penalties for non-compliance, and be done with it...

 

[AngryOldGuy]

yes Lizzie and therein lies the conundrum, while a government may be a necessary evil
the harm it can perpetrate on its citizenry is far greater than any a petty criminal could ever imagine.

 

[brothern]

Yes, that's precisely what you're arguing for. Those already here are here illegally, they committed a crime to come or to stay here. They are NOT immigrants. In fact, if they weren't here we just might have some more room on our plate for real immigrants.

And if you know someone here illegally who is practicing medicine or law and haven't reported them, you are aiding and abetting in a crime (practicing medicine/law without a license), not to mention allowing those folks to continue to put the lives of others in jeopardy.

The attempt to make this about "dirty Mexicans" is lame and that tactic has long been debunked. Yes, the vast majority of our illegal population is from south of the border and enters through Mexico. The only thing that needs to be fixed is in enforcement.

Perhaps if your argument had any depth or substance beyond just "it's illegal," you'd actually get somewhere. Like, explain to me why we should single out and pay retribution to 11 million people for illegally immigrating. Or explain to me why deportation should be the correct punitive action? Or why we can't take advantage of the collective skills of these immigrants?

I taught English as a second language. It comes with the job. I get to know immigrants as people. So I don't hold the view that immigrants are dirty, uneducated, unskilled, crime-causing and (here's a new one from you) murderers.