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No amnesty before border is secured, e-verify for all employers and enforcement.

jamesrage

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"No amnesty before border is secured, e-verify for all employers and enforcement." That is the line I keep hearing from pro-illegals who masquerade as though they are against illegal immigration and even some naive people. This line is nothing more than a con to sucker people who are against illegal immigration into supporting amnesty, legalization for illegals, earned citizenship for illegals, "work permits" for illegals, the dream act or any other term they want to use for amnesty. This amounts to offering your one and only cookie to the school bully if he leaves you alone, paying cash upfront to random strangers to fix your roof or giving your child an expensive toy with the promise that child will behave from now on. Because right before we give amnesty to illegals they might secure or claim the border is secured, mandate that every employer use e-verify and enforce all our anti-illegal immigration laws.But once they get amnesty they can gut or neuter that border security, E-verify and enforcement of anti-illegal immigration laws.After all this is the same government whom for decades only did token enforcement of our immigration laws, the occasional raid on traitorous scum who hire illegalseven though there are millions of employed illegals, and sparsely secured the border.Heck this same government even sued states who decided to do the job the feds refused to do while ignoring sanctuary states and cities.So how can anyone with a brain in their head or even a few brain cells in their head trust that the government would maintain securing our borders, e-verify and enforce our anti-illegal immigration laws?


https://www.numbersusa.com/content/...-no-work-permits-until-enforcement-place.html

During an appearance on CBS's Face the Nation on Sunday, former vice presidential candidate and current Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wisc.) said that illegal aliens should not receive work permits until the border is secured and interior enforcement, including E-Verify, is in place. The Schumer-Obama amnesty bill grants instant work permits to the nation's 11 million illegal aliens before any increases in border security or mandatory E-Verify are in place.
 

Fisher

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I support more liberal immigration policies than most of the people here I think, but the "amnesty only when the borders are secured thing" is a political bait and switch. Obama would just issue an executive order declaring the borders sufficiently secured and start with the amnesty right away. There is no objective way to determine a point at which the borders are secured.
 

brothern

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We've got 11 million illegals living in the country that are unable to take advantage of being a full citizen. These people cannot drive, be held accountable for taxes, buy property, advance their careers, settle down and raise a family without fear of deportation or participate in civil discourse (like voting, running for office).

We've effectively prevented them from ever being able to become productive members of society. In addition, given how screwed up our immigration system in, most will never have the chance to become citizens. That's 11,000,000 people in endless defacto amnesty that you want to keep as a no-potential, unproductive drag on our society?

Maybe you want to live in a weak, debilitated country with no potential. I certainly don't.

Pass the immigration bill.
 

Arbo

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We've got 11 million illegals living in the country that are unable to take advantage of being a full citizen. These people cannot drive, be held accountable for taxes, buy property, advance their careers, settle down and raise a family without fear of deportation or participate in civil discourse (like voting, running for office).

Who gives a crap? If they want to be part of our society, they should have come here legally. They are in the spot their are in due to THEIR OWN ACTIONS.

Screw them. Catch them one by one and either ship them back to mexico, or do as mexico does to illegals and KILL THEM.
 

greyhat

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Who gives a crap? If they want to be part of our society, they should have come here legally. They are in the spot their are in due to THEIR OWN ACTIONS.

Screw them. Catch them one by one and either ship them back to mexico, or do as mexico does to illegals and KILL THEM.
Way to go Gestapo! Nice approach to a complex problem...
 

Arbo

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Way to go Gestapo! Nice approach to a complex problem...
How very quaint of you....

There is nothing 'complex' about it. If you are going to cry about not having certain rights and benefits and you did not come here legally: f you, go to hell.

We are a nation of laws, one of those laws is you don't walk across the border and get to claim citizenship. If you can't start out in the country by following our laws, we do not want you here.
 

greyhat

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How very quaint of you....

There is nothing 'complex' about it. If you are going to cry about not having certain rights and benefits and you did not come here legally: f you, go to hell.

We are a nation of laws, one of those laws is you don't walk across the border and get to claim citizenship. If you can't start out in the country by following our laws, we do not want you here.
One of those laws is also, "don't kill"- advocating murder is plain wrong, regardless of your pov.
 

specklebang

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We've got 11 million illegals living in the country that are unable to take advantage of being a full citizen. These people cannot drive, be held accountable for taxes, buy property, advance their careers, settle down and raise a family without fear of deportation or participate in civil discourse (like voting, running for office).

We've effectively prevented them from ever being able to become productive members of society. In addition, given how screwed up our immigration system in, most will never have the chance to become citizens. That's 11,000,000 people in endless defacto amnesty that you want to keep as a no-potential, unproductive drag on our society?

Maybe you want to live in a weak, debilitated country with no potential. I certainly don't.

Pass the immigration bill.
Do you feel the same empathy for your second-class citizens that are deprived of a normal life because they were convicted of possessing a small amount of marijuana maybe 20 or 30 years ago? Millions of them. Some are still rotting in prison for their consenting crimes. Could we first issue them full pardons before we reward a new set of criminals, illegal aliens, with a better life and opportunity?
 

jamesrage

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One of those laws is also, "don't kill"- advocating murder is plain wrong, regardless of your pov.
If its legal then it is not murder.
 

Jetboogieman

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How very quaint of you....

There is nothing 'complex' about it. If you are going to cry about not having certain rights and benefits and you did not come here legally: f you, go to hell.

We are a nation of laws, one of those laws is you don't walk across the border and get to claim citizenship. If you can't start out in the country by following our laws, we do not want you here.
Look, if I lived in a country where this was happening, I might be a bit pissed off too.

However you have to be REALISTIC.

Those people are in your country and they're not going anywhere so you need to come up with a way to fix the problem.

Mass deportations is not the answer.

Every mass deportation, EVERY single one in human history has always ended in extreme violence.

The cost of doing it would be exponential.

The human cost of legal immigrants getting caught in the crossfire and deported in the chaos would really make you look bad on the world stage, you'd be tearing apart families, communities, not to mention you do realise you would be forcing other human beings to do these things, taking a human toll on them as well.

You can only tear so many families from their homes violently before you start to question whether it was worth it.

Multiply the cost of doing this mass deportation with riots that would ensue, damage to cities, businesses, infrastructure, disruptions to vital services and trade.

And all of a sudden your emotions have made the situation 10 times worse than having illegal immigrants in the country.

It sucks.

But if you're going to come up with a solution, it should be a realistic one.

And mass deportation isn't one of those options unless you really do want a massive police state.
 

clownboy

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I support more liberal immigration policies than most of the people here I think, but the "amnesty only when the borders are secured thing" is a political bait and switch. Obama would just issue an executive order declaring the borders sufficiently secured and start with the amnesty right away. There is no objective way to determine a point at which the borders are secured.
Agreed. Rather I want an ironclad set of laws to deal with illegals (overstayers and border crashers) in place and enforced before any Dream type act goes forward. No blanket amnesty - EVER.
 

Arbo

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However you have to be REALISTIC.
Oh sure, it's more 'realistic' to let those that show distain for the laws of our nation become citizens, and certainly that will not lead to more of the same.

To hell with that, obey our laws, or be delt with HARSHLY.
 

jamesrage

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We've got 11 million illegals living in the country that are unable to take advantage of being a full citizen. These people cannot drive, be held accountable for taxes, buy property, advance their careers, settle down and raise a family without fear of deportation or participate in civil discourse (like voting, running for office).
We've effectively prevented them from ever being able to become productive members of society. In addition, given how screwed up our immigration system in, most will never have the chance to become citizens.
They are here illegally.They should never get to be able to do any of those things in this country.

That's 11,000,000 people in endless defacto amnesty that you want to keep as a no-potential, unproductive drag on our society?
We should do everything we can to encourage them to go back home by doing the following.



1.Crack down on the scum who hire illegals.Treat them no different than we do drug dealers and other criminals who profit from and or use their money for illegal activities.

2. In order to get any ID or driver's license you present a birth certificate, green card, or certificate of naturalization and social security card.After that require a state issued ID or driver's license in order to the following-

-enroll yourself into school
-enroll your minor kids into school
-apply for welfare,food stamps,section 8 housing and any other tax payer assistance for yourself and or your children
-get a business license,fishing/hunting permit,building permit, license to practice law, food handlers permit, gun license(in states that require a permit to buy a gun),concealed carry permit(in states that require a license to conceal carry) or any other tax payer funded service
-open a bank account, cash a check, use a credit/debit/pre-paid card, apply for a loan,or wire money.
-rent,borrow,lease or buy property
-rent,borrow,lease or buy a motor vehicle.
-get legal documents for yourself or your children.
-get utilities

3.Mandate E-verify for every employer.

4.Repeal part of the immigration and nationality act of 1965 that allows for the chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children.This would virtually eliminate anchor babies.


These solutions would make it extremely hard for illegals to get a job and for illegals to profit from their illegal residence in the US.
Maybe you want to live in a weak, debilitated country with no potential. I certainly don't.

Pass the immigration bill.

If you are here illegally then **** you.
 

Jetboogieman

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Oh sure, it's more 'realistic' to let those that show distain for the laws of our nation become citizens, and certainly that will not lead to more of the same.

To hell with that, obey our laws, or be delt with HARSHLY.
Unless you address the concerns in my post instead of coming up with this dribble you'll never be taken seriously.

Whether you agree with me or not about what should be done, you cannot say that there aren't massive, massive problems with your idea of a mass deportation.
 

clownboy

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We've got 11 million illegals living in the country that are unable to take advantage of being a full citizen. These people cannot drive, be held accountable for taxes, buy property, advance their careers, settle down and raise a family without fear of deportation or participate in civil discourse (like voting, running for office).
Except virtually none of that is true. They can and do drive, buy property, advance their careers, start and run businesses and raise families. It's done all the time out here in the Western states.

We've effectively prevented them from ever being able to become productive members of society. In addition, given how screwed up our immigration system in, most will never have the chance to become citizens. That's 11,000,000 people in endless defacto amnesty that you want to keep as a no-potential, unproductive drag on our society?
No, a thousand times no. We don't want to keep them as anything. We want them gone, deported never to be allowed return.

Maybe you want to live in a weak, debilitated country with no potential. I certainly don't.

Pass the immigration bill.
Yeah, that's right, hamstring the country so the democrats can gain a voting block. That's the only reason to pass this turd.
 

specklebang

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Look, if I lived in a country where this was happening, I might be a bit pissed off too.

However you have to be REALISTIC.

Those people are in your country and they're not going anywhere so you need to come up with a way to fix the problem.

Mass deportations is not the answer.

Every mass deportation, EVERY single one in human history has always ended in extreme violence.

The cost of doing it would be exponential.

The human cost of legal immigrants getting caught in the crossfire and deported in the chaos would really make you look bad on the world stage, you'd be tearing apart families, communities, not to mention you do realise you would be forcing other human beings to do these things, taking a human toll on them as well.

You can only tear so many families from their homes violently before you start to question whether it was worth it.

Multiply the cost of doing this mass deportation with riots that would ensue, damage to cities, businesses, infrastructure, disruptions to vital services and trade.

And all of a sudden your emotions have made the situation 10 times worse than having illegal immigrants in the country.

It sucks.

But if you're going to come up with a solution, it should be a realistic one.

And mass deportation isn't one of those options unless you really do want a massive police state.
Unless you address the concerns in my post instead of coming up with this dribble you'll never be taken seriously.

Whether you agree with me or not about what should be done, you cannot say that there aren't massive, massive problems with your idea of a mass deportation.
Seems to me that things are functioning well enough right now. Most of those 11 million are working somewhere doing something. So why do we need to give them special status?
 

Jetboogieman

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Seems to me that things are functioning well enough right now. Most of those 11 million are working somewhere doing something. So why do we need to give them special status?
That's an option too.

Status quo.

It's always an option.

I don't have the answers, it's a difficult and complex situation with alot of emotion involved that's going to take a long time to solve.

My only purpose is to warn against such short sighted ideas like mass deportation, because they have grave consequences.
 

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Unless you address the concerns in my post instead of coming up with this dribble you'll never be taken seriously.

Whether you agree with me or not about what should be done, you cannot say that there aren't massive, massive problems with your idea of a mass deportation.
It's "drivel", not "dribble" and the mass deportation thing is a dodge. No one is proposing we call out the National Guard to go door to door and repel the invaders. At least not seriously. Your concerns are based upon a fictional solution that isn't even on the table.

The real solutions proposed have been posted again and again. Time after time in these threads the mass deportation meme is debunked.
 

Jetboogieman

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The real solutions proposed have been posted again and again. Time after time in these threads the mass deportation meme is debunked.
This is what Arbo said.

Screw them. Catch them one by one and either ship them back to mexico, or do as mexico does to illegals and KILL THEM.
That's mass deportation right there.

Some people do actually think mass deportation is an answer clown boy, you cannot deny that.
 

specklebang

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That's an option too.

Status quo.

It's always an option.

I don't have the answers, it's a difficult and complex situation with alot of emotion involved that's going to take a long time to solve.

My only purpose is to warn against such short sighted ideas like mass deportation, because they have grave consequences.
Nobody is seriously advocating mass deportation. It's implausible. But nobody likes rewarding law-breakers either. So yes, maybe the right action is no action.
 

clownboy

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This is what Arbo said.



That's mass deportation right there.

Some people do actually think mass deportation is an answer clown boy, you cannot deny that.
No, that's NOT what he said and you quoted and that's not what folks suggest. "one by one as you catch them" is NOT "mass deportation". And for the thousandth time, folks say all sorts of things in frustration (the "kill them" part).

Take a look at post #13. The solution has been posted over and over again. Add to it asset forfeiture and the deportations of the ones who don't self-deport will be fully self-funded and you'll take away yet another reason for coming here illegally in the first place.

Btw, "clownboy" is one word when referring to my nick.
 
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Jetboogieman

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No, that's NOT what he said and you quoted and that's not what folks suggest. "one by one as you catch them" is NOT "mass deportation". And for the thousandth time, folks say all sorts of things in frustration (the "kill them" part).
Whatever dude.

If you can't deal with the reality that some people think that way, that's your problem, not mine.

I've been here for years and people do think this.

There was one guy who use to say the border should be mined and machine gun nests set up across the entire border to kill any man, woman or child that tries to cross illegally.

I'm not making **** up here.
 

ocean515

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We've got 11 million illegals living in the country that are unable to take advantage of being a full citizen. These people cannot drive, be held accountable for taxes, buy property, advance their careers, settle down and raise a family without fear of deportation or participate in civil discourse (like voting, running for office).

We've effectively prevented them from ever being able to become productive members of society. In addition, given how screwed up our immigration system in, most will never have the chance to become citizens. That's 11,000,000 people in endless defacto amnesty that you want to keep as a no-potential, unproductive drag on our society?

Maybe you want to live in a weak, debilitated country with no potential. I certainly don't.

Pass the immigration bill.
The problem is, most of what you have written is not true. Illegal aliens have jobs, homes, drive cars, and receive government support in some degree or another.

The real problem is in a broad sense, illegal aliens are people who failed to figure out how to survive in the failed country of their origin. Other than what appears to have been a desire to work, there is little else they have brought with them.

Many of the challenges related to income, government deficits, lowered tax revenue, and challenged education systems can be directly attributed to this massive influx of unskilled, and poorly educated people.

The attaction of a relative comfortable life must be removed, and the real consequences of their illegal entry enforced if these problems are ever to be addressed.

A sane guest worker program is needed, and severe penalties for breaching our immigration laws must be enforced.
 

Hard Truth

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The borders will never be secure unless we spend a unimaginably huge amount more to make them that way. If we effectively seal off all the land borders with Mexico, people will come by boat or via Canada. People with student, tourist or work visas will still overstay their limits. To stop immigration we will need to implant unremoveable tracking devices on all legal visitors and station personnel every sixty feet along all the borders, including along the coasts and great lakes, or an equally effective technical solution. Then people will still arrive by air via small planes and/or parachute. The government has also proven unwilling and unable to enforce laws against hiring illegal immigrants.

The only solution with a chance of working is to make legal immigration easier than illegal immigration, which the public would never support.
 
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