Nissan sell its 100,000th electric car

[MoSurveyor]

I think elec cars will someday be the better alternative to gas cars but I don't think making gas artificially high in order to hasten that day is the right course and that is what Obama and his followers are trying to do.

I'd be happy if the oil subsidies would stop. If we're not going to raise gas prices to balance out the subsidies then we should stop giving them money. If you want a level playing field then let's really make it level.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Your link had no original information unless I missed one. But, tracking down the links of links I got to this:

(160,000 km = 100,000 miles)
Comparative Environmental Life Cycle Assessment of Conventional and Electric Vehicles - Hawkins - 2012 - Journal of Industrial Ecology - Wiley Online Library


The analysis by the National Research Counsel had no choice but to assume battery technology would not improve dramatically from 2005 to 2035, which is a highly unlikely occurrence given how far we've come in the 8 years since the data for the study was assembled. They counted 20% of the manufacture "cost" for the battery, a number which I'm sure has already changed with lithium-ion battery usage ala Tesla. Even with that huge inclusion, the results they got between gas and electric were virtually the same. Also, as cars try to get more fuel efficient, they will be forced to use the same light-weight composites as electrics use now. This will increase their cost of manufacture to much the same as electrics as far as the chassis and body are concerned.

Hidden Costs of Energy: Unpriced Consequences of Energy Production and Use



Assuming 35 MPH, which you'll never get all the time, and gasoline prices holding at $3.50/gal, the battery for the electric would be the same price as all the gasoline you would use. Factor in the actual price of gas and the actual MPH of gas cars and the price of electricity you'll get nearly the same dollar amount for both gas and electric for 100k miles.

Next, you'll add maintenance for the gas car over 100k miles. Electrics have no transmission to maintain, no oil changes, no plugs, no EFI or fuel pump, or anything else mechanical that will go wrong in the first 100k miles (and probably a hell of a lot more miles than that since electric motors are extremely reliable). Compared to common IC drive-trains, electrics have no maintenance to speak of.

I tried to do the math on this and it seemed like gas and battery would equal out but after you added in cost of charging the elec car it is more expensive to drive. As you said though gas motors need more maintenance so it is probably a wash. However you do the math, as of now elec cars are not cheaper to run and when you add in the price to buy the things in the first place compared to a similar gas vehicle they are a very expensive toy or political statement or both.

 

[Dragonfly]

However you do the math, as of now elec cars are not cheaper to run and when you add in the price to buy the things in the first place compared to a similar gas vehicle they are a very expensive toy or political statement or both.

Or an investment into the R&D of the technology, and therefore an investment in possible/potential future technology.

 

[FederalRepublic]

I could be wrong but I think electric cars were thought to be threatening to their 1990s business model. Although the car companies don't sell oil, cars that need petroleum derived gasoline require more maintenance than electric cars and need to be replaced more often. At the time, GM reportedly made 40% of their profits from replacement parts, something electric cars could not generate. All of this under a what they don't know, won't hurt mentality.

Less sure about the Rav 4 except that only a very small number were ever built on THAT platform, so few that many were unaware of the superior efficiency.

CAFE standards were looming back then the same way they are now. It would make zero sense for GM to sell off a patent that would corner the market on EV's. Even if GM's business model was based on replacement parts, most of the parts typicall replaced on a gas-powered car are also on EV's. Battery packs replacement would likely be more often than replacing a gasoline engine in a modern vehicle...

The rav4 EV's were originally lease only, and then only to government agencies. They did sell a few hundred of them after they'd been out a few years.

 

[Smeagol]

I tried to do the math on this and it seemed like gas and battery would equal out but after you added in cost of charging the elec car it is more expensive to drive. As you said though gas motors need more maintenance so it is probably a wash. However you do the math, as of now elec cars are not cheaper to run and when you add in the price to buy the things in the first place compared to a similar gas vehicle they are a very expensive toy or political statement or both.

I see is as an important step in defunding the people who want us dead and keeping them occupied with things like trying to eat instead of our demise; a step and will lead to future steps that will in time make improvements and lower costs.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

I see is as an important step in defunding the people who want us dead and keeping them occupied with things like trying to eat instead of our demise; a step and will lead to future steps that will in time make improvements and lower costs.

If you can afford to buy an electric vehicle because you want to help aid in its development go right ahead.

 

[MoSurveyor]

I tried to do the math on this and it seemed like gas and battery would equal out but after you added in cost of charging the elec car it is more expensive to drive. As you said though gas motors need more maintenance so it is probably a wash. However you do the math, as of now elec cars are not cheaper to run and when you add in the price to buy the things in the first place compared to a similar gas vehicle they are a very expensive toy or political statement or both.

It's pretty much of a wash right now, it's just that people only look at the added cost (~$10k) instead of comparing that to the fuel and maintenance of an IC gas car over 100k miles, which is much more than $10k. You might be loosing $2k over the 100k life-span of the battery pack - that's about $0.02/mile. $300-$400/year isn't much of a political statement and I think it's a good investment in technology. People spend more than that for high-powered video cards, which in most cases is nothing more than e-penis.

 

[MoSurveyor]

If you can afford to buy an electric vehicle because you want to help aid in its development go right ahead.

I would if I were in the market for a new car. I suspect I've bought the last car of my life, though I may have to get one more if I live that long.

 

[Lukas105]

This may not be the thread, but I fail to see what an electric car saves. I believe Hybrids are the way to go. Anyway, when you plug in your electric car, that uses power from your local power plant, increasing the amount it needs to pump into the grid. Thus burning more fuel, (Green power is far from supplying much), not really saving much in an economical way. The lack of power, range, battery safety, and the such are not worth the money, YET.

I laugh at the "mainstream zero-emission vehicle" from the article.

Good news for those of us excited about new technology breaking the oligopoly gasoline holds over personal transportation. If there's no competition, suppliers can charge anything they want. Extra problematic if the product is one we absolutely need for our survival. More so if the price is controlled by an international anti-trust cartel. More bothersome if the entire global supply is allowed to be purchased in advance then price-gouged by a futures commodities market. Horrendously troubling if one of the major regions where the commodity is produced is populated by people who view us, it's consumers, as The Great Satan and some of them are mortally committed to fight to the death against that which they consider evil, us. Tragic that we have an entire segment of population who see freedom from this as a communist plot to stop capitalism and/or due to political team pride refuse to embrace freedom over an ideological sparing match they'd see themselves as losing with environmentalists.

The more units sold, the more market forces will improve the product and he more prices will fall. Congratulations Nissan!

“The age of the mainstream zero-emission vehicle is here,” said Renault-Nissan Alliance Chairman and CEO Carlos Ghosn. “We expect demand to keep growing as the charging infrastructure develops – and we remain 100-percent committed to zero-emission technology for the long term.”



Renault-Nissan Sells Its 100,000th All-Electric Car - HybridCars.com

 

[Lukas105]

Tell the OPEC countries to lower their prices. They were the ones to inflate their prices in the 70s. . . Might as well use the fuel as long as we have it.

I'd be happy if the oil subsidies would stop. If we're not going to raise gas prices to balance out the subsidies then we should stop giving them money. If you want a level playing field then let's really make it level.

 

[MoSurveyor]

Tell the OPEC countries to lower their prices. They were the ones to inflate their prices in the 70s. . . Might as well use the fuel as long as we have it.

As you've pointed out, the US cannot control the world oil market - but if we stopped burning oil for fuel we wouldn't have to import any at all. We produce enough for ourselves to take care of all the non-fuel uses we have. Why rely on and give our money to another country when we don't have to? That's just stupidity on our part, especially when it comes to something as vital as transportation.

 

[Smeagol]

This may not be the thread, but I fail to see what an electric car saves. I believe Hybrids are the way to go. Anyway, when you plug in your electric car, that uses power from your local power plant, increasing the amount it needs to pump into the grid. Thus burning more fuel, (Green power is far from supplying much), not really saving much in an economical way. The lack of power, range, battery safety, and the such are not worth the money, YET.

I laugh at the "mainstream zero-emission vehicle" from the article.

Electric cars basically replace petroleum with things that don't finance the "death to America" culture.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Electric cars basically replace petroleum with things that don't finance the "death to America" culture.

This could be accomplished now if the greenies would just get out of the way and we made it a national priority...

 

[clownboy]

Electric cars basically replace petroleum with things that don't finance the "death to America" culture.

Where do you think those rare earth materials that are the bedrock of all things electric come from?

 

[Smeagol]

Where do you think those rare earth materials that are the bedrock of all things electric come from?

I realize petroleum is used to make a variety of products but there a big difference between making a plastic knob or tires and burning barrels of it over the life of the car.

 

[Smeagol]

This could be accomplished now if the greenies would just get out of the way and we made it a national priority...

I think I agree. How so?

I think after 9/11 they should have shut up about climate change and instead focused on defunding terrorists. Making climate change the issue only threw up a brick wall to a large portion of the population who now cannot consider the practical outcome of winning the war on terror quickly and decisively because they've dug in the heels in opposing extreme environmentalism.

 

[KevinKohler]

More exciting for me is the return of the Datsun brand. Maybe a new 500 is in our future?

 

[AlabamaPaul]

I think I agree. How so?

I think after 9/11 they should have shut up about climate change and instead focused on defunding terrorists. Making climate change the issue only threw up a brick wall to a large portion of the population who now cannot consider the practical outcome of winning the war on terror quickly and decisively because they've dug in the heels in opposing extreme environmentalism.

I see you have an open mind. Energy independence would serve so many uses for the country...

 

[MoSurveyor]

Where do you think those rare earth materials that are the bedrock of all things electric come from?

At present they come from China because we get them cheaper there. That doesn't mean we couldn't do it ourselves if we wanted. Opening a couple of mines is much easier and than trying to almost double our oil production.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

At present the come from China because we get them cheaper there. That doesn't mean we couldn't do it ourselves if we wanted. Opening a couple of mines is much easier and than trying to almost double our oil production.

Actually, doubling our oil/gas production would be easier...

 

[Smeagol]

Actually, doubling our oil/gas production would be easier...

Yes but would accomplish little to nothing in terms of defunding terrorism. There would still be an extremely lucrative market for middle eastern petroleum. OPEC would simply scale back production quotas to cancel out the economic supply impact US domestic oil would have under normal circumstances. On top of that, US oil would be sold on the global market so if China is willing to pay more per barrel than an American refinery, China will get "our own oil", not us and the US refinery could get oil from Venezuela, Nigeria or Saudi Arabia instead all depending on who is cheaper that day. If in the very unlikely circumstance it did make sense for the US refineries to use US domestic oil only, and tell the Middle East to take a hike, all that would do is push the oil rich Middle East into alliances with Russia and China and marginalize our global influence.

It might not be the easiest option but the most effective one is to begin to phase out a significant number of cars that use gasoline both here in the US and roll them out to the global market so that few people anywhere need anywhere near as much petroleum thus forcing the terrorists to be funded on the date sugar industry.

 

[MoSurveyor]

Actually, doubling our oil/gas production would be easier...

Not nearly. I don't think you understand how many oil wells there are in the US. Doubling that amount would take a lot of time and money - a couple of mines, not so much.