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NFL Preseason and Regular Season thread!

soccerboy22 said:
I knew the play, but how you described it isn't what happened. Garcon was at least 1/3rd of the way out of bounds when the second Pitt player hit him. The first hit was legal, it was the second that drew the flag.
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It wasn't intentional. The defensive player thought he was inbounds and was merely trying to make a play. Any sort of flag was uncalled for.
 
I really think this dallas team could be dangerous if they ever get healthy.

Ware is the best pass rusher in football. so why is it that refs don't pay more attention to what is being done to him? He has a chance on beating the sack record, and would destroy that record if lineman were not allowed to cheat against him.

twice he was tackled by the ankles. no call. once he was grabbed by the back of the helmet and pulled to the ground. no call.

I can understand missing the other types of illegal holds where they grab him on the outside of the shoulder pads and bear hug him (which is also illegal), but tackling him from behind? "come on man"
 
Zyphlin said:
Your center was throwing the ball every which way but to Romo.
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the snaps weren't wild, they were early. Romo and the head coach both accused you guys of illegally simulating the snap count to cause this.

At some point, I would hope our first year starter at center would get it figured out, because the skins aren't going to be the only team to try to get a tactical advantage by doing this.
 
ARealConservative said:
I really think this dallas team could be dangerous if they ever get healthy.

Ware is the best pass rusher in football. so why is it that refs don't pay more attention to what is being done to him? He has a chance on beating the sack record, and would destroy that record if lineman were not allowed to cheat against him.

twice he was tackled by the ankles. no call. once he was grabbed by the back of the helmet and pulled to the ground. no call.

I can understand missing the other types of illegal holds where they grab him on the outside of the shoulder pads and bear hug him (which is also illegal), but tackling him from behind? "come on man"
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i don't think so, romo is on the team. whiny bitch.
 
ARealConservative said:
I really think this dallas team could be dangerous if they ever get healthy.

Ware is the best pass rusher in football. so why is it that refs don't pay more attention to what is being done to him? He has a chance on beating the sack record, and would destroy that record if lineman were not allowed to cheat against him.

twice he was tackled by the ankles. no call. once he was grabbed by the back of the helmet and pulled to the ground. no call.

I can understand missing the other types of illegal holds where they grab him on the outside of the shoulder pads and bear hug him (which is also illegal), but tackling him from behind? "come on man"
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I've noticed that a lot of the best pass rushers get screwed like this. The Bears were doing stuff like this to Clay Mathews all game on Sunday (the packers did it to peppers as well, but I figured I'd start off talking about the Bears doing it to demonstrate that it's not a homer bias I'm displaying).

My take is that the NFL is geared towards helping offenses look good these days. Every new rule change seems to be aimed at making it easier for Quarterbacks and receivers and tougher on defenses. I hate it, because I'm a defensive minded guy. Brady would not have the same numbers he has now if the rules were the same as they were 20 years ago, for example.
 
ARealConservative said:
the snaps weren't wild, they were early. Romo and the head coach both accused you guys of illegally simulating the snap count to cause this.

At some point, I would hope our first year starter at center would get it figured out, because the skins aren't going to be the only team to try to get a tactical advantage by doing this.
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Yeah, word is that Washington was simulating Romo's snap count, and the refs for whatever reason didn't care. Not making any excuses for the Skins today, they deserved to lose this one. all in all it was a horribly officiated game on both sides.
 
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Tucker Case said:
I've noticed that a lot of the best pass rushers get screwed like this. The Bears were doing stuff like this to Clay Mathews all game on Sunday (the packers did it to peppers as well, but I figured I'd start off talking about the Bears doing it to demonstrate that it's not a homer bias I'm displaying).
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Every good pass rusher gets it. For every play that a Cowboy fan could point to for Ware Monday you'd likely have a Redskins plan pointing one out for Orakpo. I hate the argument all together and shake my heads week after week as Redskins fans bitch and moan about it.

Holding happens in this league. Its not going to randomly stop. There's as much art to getting away with it as there is to other things in the game. And frankly what is "blatant" to us on TV may not be on the field, in a bad position, looking at 20 other guys, without the benefit of instant replay and without the homer tendancy to focus on ONE player rather tha ntrying to watch the entire field.

The good pash rushers still get their sacks. The Great pass rushers, like Ware, adapt and find ways to get around it to pick up a lot of sacks. Its actually why at this point I'd call Orakpo a good, not great, pass Rusher...he's got one move, and he has trouble getting out of the holds.

Objectively watch any game that has a good to great pass rusher in it...especially Speed Rushers...and you're going to see a lot of holds missed, even some apparent "blatant" ones. Its just what happens. Its one of the most tired excuses and bitches that I hear people do, and I'll be first and foremost in saying that a lot of Redskins fans are really bad at grabbing onto that gripe.

My take is that the NFL is geared towards helping offenses look good these days. Every new rule change seems to be aimed at making it easier for Quarterbacks and receivers and tougher on defenses. I hate it, because I'm a defensive minded guy. Brady would not have the same numbers he has now if the rules were the same as they were 20 years ago, for example.
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Agree 100% with this.
 
Zyphlin said:
For every play that a Cowboy fan could point to for Ware Monday you'd likely have a Redskins plan pointing one out for Orakpo.
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the difference is Free was called for holding on Orakpo. Williams twice dove for and tackled Ware by the ankles because he was beaten so badly.
 
liblady said:
i don't think so, romo is on the team. whiny bitch.
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Romo never struck me really as a "whiny" QB...no more than the average one. Every QB it seems is a bit of a "whiner" for the same reason you could say someone like Kobe Bryant is a "whiner". If you complain, you get eyes on you.

That said, he reminds me a lot of past superbowl Favre and frankly like Eli was prior to the superbowl win. Until he actually can show that he can do it in big pressure situations I'm not going to assume he can and will assume he's going to play to the form we expect in those situations. Does that mean he's not capable of overcoming that? Absolutely not. Hell, Eli's got as many superbowl rings was his far superior brother. However saying its possible is different than saying I would trust in it, expect it, or bet on it.

Dallas could be dangerous if all healthy. Then again, so could the Giants. Even the Ram's could be a different team minus a few injuries. Hell, the Redskins with a healthy Laron Landry all preseason and Jarvis Jenkins not going down for the year would look different. Teams get injuries in the NFL, its fun for fans to dream about how dangerous they may or may not be if they all get healthy at once. However, while those fans are dreaming about being Dangerous teams that get a quarter of their roster injured and manage to find a way to win actually become dangerous and win super bowls. In the NFL its not about lamenting your injuries, its about overcoming them. Ask Green Bay.
 
ARealConservative said:
the difference is Free was called for holding on Orakpo. Williams twice dove for and tackled Ware by the ankles because he was beaten so badly.
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The one that Ware was way ticked about was a ridiculous no call. I was shocked that there wasn't yellow on the ground for that.

However, you can't tell me with a straight face that Doug Free held Orakpo one time all game. Yes, Free got called at least once and Williams didn't. Not going to see me arguing and saying the Skins didn't get away with some calls (horrible officiating on both sides). But don't tell me you're going to sit here and act like that was the only time during the game Orakpo was getting held.
 
Zyphlin said:
The one that Ware was way ticked about was a ridiculous no call. I was shocked that there wasn't yellow on the ground for that.

However, you can't tell me with a straight face that Doug Free held Orakpo one time all game. Yes, Free got called at least once and Williams didn't. Not going to see me arguing and saying the Skins didn't get away with some calls (horrible officiating on both sides). But don't tell me you're going to sit here and act like that was the only time during the game Orakpo was getting held.
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my issue with Ware is cumulative. the best pass rusher in the game, and the refs refuse to ever call a hold against him. it has been going on for too long.
 
Zyphlin said:
Romo never struck me really as a "whiny" QB...no more than the average one. Every QB it seems is a bit of a "whiner" for the same reason you could say someone like Kobe Bryant is a "whiner". If you complain, you get eyes on you.

That said, he reminds me a lot of past superbowl Favre and frankly like Eli was prior to the superbowl win. Until he actually can show that he can do it in big pressure situations I'm not going to assume he can and will assume he's going to play to the form we expect in those situations. Does that mean he's not capable of overcoming that? Absolutely not. Hell, Eli's got as many superbowl rings was his far superior brother. However saying its possible is different than saying I would trust in it, expect it, or bet on it.

Dallas could be dangerous if all healthy. Then again, so could the Giants. Even the Ram's could be a different team minus a few injuries. Hell, the Redskins with a healthy Laron Landry all preseason and Jarvis Jenkins not going down for the year would look different. Teams get injuries in the NFL, its fun for fans to dream about how dangerous they may or may not be if they all get healthy at once. However, while those fans are dreaming about being Dangerous teams that get a quarter of their roster injured and manage to find a way to win actually become dangerous and win super bowls. In the NFL its not about lamenting your injuries, its about overcoming them. Ask Green Bay.
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it is.....but even at full strength, i've not been impressed by dallas. i think it's a team chemistry thing, partly. i don't think romo is a good leader. but just my opinion.
 
liblady said:
it is.....but even at full strength, i've not been impressed by dallas. i think it's a team chemistry thing, partly. i don't think romo is a good leader. but just my opinion.
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He bailed their asses out last night, playing with a moron center (go Terps!) and rookie receivers. I understand why a lot of folks don't like Romo, but he showed somethin' last night.
 
ARealConservative said:
my issue with Ware is cumulative. the best pass rusher in the game, and the refs refuse to ever call a hold against him. it has been going on for too long.
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I feel you, I just can't have much sympathy. Every good to great pass rusher would have more sacks if Holds were called more; but that's just not going to happen. You think Clay Matthews isn't held a ton? Julius Peppers? Freeny or Mathis? A whole host of Giants? Mario Williams? Yep, Ware's the best. However he's treated the same as most others in regards to holding calls I'd wager and if they were stricter about it across the board Ware would have more sacks...and so would the people playing the Cowboys that had good pass rushers as well.

You're doing the same thing as Vick was complaining aobut the late hits or lack of flags and unfair action targetting him. Not because its fact, but becasue his focus is Vick and your focus is Ware and the Cowboys. Actually, its times like this I wish I had access to some of the stat calculators ESPN and the like have. Vick gets on average more roughing the passer calls than other quarterbacks, it'd be interesting to see how many holding calls Ware draws as compared to other pass rushers.

You're seeing it as a huge issue specifically on Ware because you focus on the cowboys, you're jocking your guy, and wanting to play woe is me. I'm saying its a league wide issue and you turn on any game with a good pass rusher and you'll likely have a legitimate shot at seeing bad no-calls regarding holding.

Not saying holding isn't happening, and I've already laid clear I absolutely expected a call on the Williams play and that was a very eggregious one. I'm just saying this isn't some kind of problem significantly larger on Ware than anyone else.
 
Zyphlin said:
Not saying holding isn't happening, and I've already laid clear I absolutely expected a call on the Williams play and that was a very eggregious one. I'm just saying this isn't some kind of problem significantly larger on Ware than anyone else.
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I guess I should be happy it didn't cost us the game.

imagine your feelings last year if they ignored the hold on the final play of the game.
 


Love the Landry hit, it was absolutely nasty. But isn't that considered "launching" and isn't L Robinson a defenseless player in that situation? Ball got called later in the game for a much lesser offense against Santana Moss.
 
liblady said:
it is.....but even at full strength, i've not been impressed by dallas. i think it's a team chemistry thing, partly. i don't think romo is a good leader. but just my opinion.
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I think Dallas is a good team. That's about it. Some may take that as an insult (since apparently me saying that Tony Romo is a good QB and in the top 10 but not an elite one meant I was some kind of sadistic homer that doesn't undrestand football :roll:) but its not. However, I don't think they're a top team in the league nor one I'd have any faith in making a superbowl. A lot of close games, a QB whose poise in those games is inconsistant, and a guy calling the plays that for reasons I can't understand has showed a tendancy over time to go away from the run late which is not good for late season football. (You hear that Kyle Shannahan you pass happy ****?)

Right now I'd be no more scared of the Cowboys in the NFC then I would be Green Bay, Detroit, Chicago, Philly, New Orleans, Atlanta, or Tampa Bay. And I'd even throw the Giants in there if you're going to play the "Healthy Cowboys" card meaning you'd have to go healthy giants. I'm not saying the Cowboys are worse than those teams, but that they wouldn't scare me or seem any more dangerous to me than any of them.
 
StillBallin75 said:


Love the Landry hit, it was absolutely nasty. But isn't that considered "launching" and isn't L Robinson a defenseless player in that situation? Ball got called later in the game for a much lesser offense against Santana Moss.
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I don't want these plays to be illegal. the problem was we got hit with one quite similar to it for 15 yards. I feel the Hall facemask was more of a makeup call because of how one sided the game was going down to that point.
 
StillBallin75 said:
He bailed their asses out last night, playing with a moron center (go Terps!) and rookie receivers. I understand why a lot of folks don't like Romo, but he showed somethin' last night.
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Garrett feeding Felix Jones the ball and committing to the run during that second half showed me far more than Romo's game managing did.
 
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