New York grand jury returns criminal indictments against Trump’s company and its CFO, the first from prosecutors probing the former president’s busine

[OscarLevant]

Except that Vance & Co. didn't fight to SCOTUS for records on the theory they would indict a CFO who in turn would put the scews on Trump.
The expectation was that the records would sink Trump.
After three years, the only basis they have to indict AW is the records. So what makes you think AW has other information?



Typically these minor tax issues are handled via civil charges.
But yes- they can be charged criminally. So this is now the standard.
And especially the standard against current and former presidents.

BTW-- hearing stories that H Biden paid various contractors for work done on J Biden' house.
Is there an investigation?
It goes both ways now.



Yep-- and while crime is skyrocketing in NYC and NY state, the top law enforcement officers in the city and state are worrying about taxes on a company car.

Maybe the party is just getting started. After all, it is a maiden voyage prosection, and as such, most prosecutors don't like them.

But, when once one is finally is executed, more will come out of it and from it.

They are not minor tax issues. When an org keeps separate sets of documents, one for the IRS and another for private use, especially for over a decade, that is not a minor issue, that goes to a wide pattern of deceit, it goes to criminal intent,

Other countries prosecute their criminal leaders - Presidents, Prime Ministers, etc. For example, France, South Korea, South Africa and Italy have all prosecuted former leaders for crimes they committed while in office. However, in the United States there is no precedent for prosecuting a criminal former president. Prosecutors generally don't like to take maiden legal voyages, that is, bring a case that is unprecedented. Prosecutors like to have legal precedent as a blueprint. They like to have the comfort and cover of being able to point to an appellate court opinion - legal precedent - and say, "this has been done before, so I am not breaking new legal ground." However, logic and common sense dictate that, if you require precedent to indict a criminal former president then we could NEVER charge a criminal former president. Indeed, the way prosecutors create precedent is by doing something for the first time. The real question is - is there anything prohibiting the prosecution of a former president for crimes he committed while in office. The answer is a definitive NO - there is no law, no statute, no appellate court opinion and no Supreme Court precedent prohibiting the prosecution of a former president. This video discusses prosecutorial considerations in taking a maiden legal voyage - brining a novel case for which there is no legal precedent and relates example of when such novel legal cases have been brought in the courts of Washington, DC.

 

[OscarLevant]

The comment to which I responded had to do with the claim that a Romney or a McCain were more of a decent person and thus would be more acceptable to the voting population than Trump, who has some personal baggage.
The point I said is that it doesn't matter-- because whomever the GOP puts up will still be slammed on that personal level.
That a Romney et. al. would be a harder sell doesn't really change anything.
So the GOP might as well support somebody who can win.

It is a meaningless point, because Trump is a despicable human being, and to that degree, he has no peer and he gets

Dems will criticize repubs, but that's irrelevant.

Sure, the GOP might well support someone who can win, but they are not going to do that, because Trumpism has poisoned the GOP.

 

[OscarLevant]

I'm not sure the span of time that the law suit covers, but the Trump organization employed about 35,000 people.

$1.7 million over even one year divided among the 35,000 comes out to $48 per employee over a single year. That amount reduces for every year of the investigation.

If the investigation covered more than one year, that amount reduces further.

C'mon, man!

Do you have a link that proves that there were two sets of books?

This is more like an accounting error based on a misread of the too-complex tax code.

FOR ANY OTHER PERSON OR ANY OTHER COMPANY, this would have resulted in an inquiring note and perhaps a fine.

This another abuse of power by over reaching zealots and another harassment of this private citizen by an out of control government.

It's in the charging document, they are not going to levy a financial crimes charge without documentation, so it's safe to presume they have it.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/20982368/new-york-v-trump-org-allen-weisselberg.pdf

No it wouldn't, a number of individuals have been incarcerated for crimes of a comparable magnitude, Leona Helmsley, for one. I'm sure I can find many more.

 

[RAMOSS]

Link?

The Empire State Strikes Back

Trump was not charged in the indictments handed down by the Manhattan district attorney, but his legal and financial perils still continue to mount.

newrepublic.com

 

[TomFitz]

That's not how the game works. At no point in time because they have the info do they need to charge or release the info they have.

You are under some foolish notion they have to.

It’s an assertion that is part of the Trumpster line that asserts falsely that they didn’t have anything on Trump because he wasn’t charged by the Special Prosecutor, who did not charge. He was following long standing Justice Department guidelines.

In order for this particular part of the right wing narrative, you’re’ supposed to forget that.

Mueller deferred to the Attorney General, in much the same way as he had deferred to the head of the NFL when he concluded his investigation of that organization.

Of course, by that time, Trump had installed his consigliere who fixed it for him.

The notion that Trump wasn’t prosecuted because they didn’t have anything on him is not only false, it’s absurd.

The Mueller Report was a veritable smorgasboard of collusion and obstruction of justice. None of that has ever gone away, and never will.

And Mueller didn’t follow the money at all.

That’s inevitable. I have little doubt that the tax case will begin to take the lid off a rat’s nest of money laundering, fraud,

 

[code1211]

It's in the charging document, they are not going to levy a financial crimes charge without documentation, so it's safe to presume they have it.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/20982368/new-york-v-trump-org-allen-weisselberg.pdf

No it wouldn't, a number of individuals have been incarcerated for crimes of a comparable magnitude, Leona Helmsley, for one. I'm sure I can find many more.

Sucks for the accountants that arrived at the conclusions leading to this practice.

It undeniably certain that Trump had nothing at all to do with the decision or the guidance that led to this. The political abusers of their power are, once again, trying to make a Trump associate "flip".

If Trump enjoyed any benefit resulting from following the guidance of his accountants and lawyers, he'll pay his back taxes and fines if requires and go about his business.

This is more of the witch hunt and any reasonable observer sees it.

 

[code1211]

The Empire State Strikes Back

Trump was not charged in the indictments handed down by the Manhattan district attorney, but his legal and financial perils still continue to mount.

newrepublic.com

So Trump was not charged. That's the reportable documented fact.

Everything else in this propaganda from this propagandist is propaganda.

 

[RAMOSS]

So Trump was not charged. That's the reportable documented fact.

Everything else in this propaganda from this propagandist is propaganda.

You don't see the implications. Ok. I have some suggested reading for you. Read up on how Guilianni and Mueller brought down John Gotti Jr.

Of course, your response can be willful ignorance.

 

[justabubba]

Sucks for the accountants that arrived at the conclusions leading to this practice.

It undeniably certain that Trump had nothing at all to do with the decision or the guidance that led to this. The political abusers of their power are, once again, trying to make a Trump associate "flip".

If Trump enjoyed any benefit resulting from following the guidance of his accountants and lawyers, he'll pay his back taxes and fines if requires and go about his business.

This is more of the witch hunt and any reasonable observer sees it.

it is as if you have not seen any of the video of tRump pronouncing how much he knows about the tax laws and applied that knowledge to the operation of his businesses

when the time comes, the jurors will certainly see that accumulated media

 

[reflechissez]

A few years back, I checked Wiki and it said about 35,000 employees. In this iteration of the info, the say about 22,000 employees. Maybe Covid draw backs? I don't know. Either way, you are completely and absolutely wrong in your belief.

About everything in your post is conjecture. I asked for a LINK to support your assertion on a supposed FACT that is easily supported if it's true. You failed to support the two sets of books assertion.

I have a natural tendency to object to ANY government illegal overreach whether it's invading a sovereign foreign state for political advantage or using the power of government to attack political opponents.

The Trump Organization - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

<snip>
The Trump Organization is a group of about 500 business entities of which Donald Trump is the sole or principal owner.[5] Around 250 of these entities use the Trump name.[6][7] The organization was founded in 1923 by Donald Trump's paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Christ Trump, and his father, Fred Trump, as E. Trump & Son. Donald Trump began leading it in 1971, renamed it around 1973, and handed off its leadership to his children in 2017.
<snip>

Notice it says 500 business entities, not 500 businesses. trump gave every random idea its on tax id number. Every project was its own LLC.

 

[code1211]

You don't see the implications. Ok. I have some suggested reading for you. Read up on how Guilianni and Mueller brought down John Gotti Jr.

Of course, your response can be willful ignorance.

So, according to you, if i want to know the actual truth about one thing, I should look at a different, entirely unrelated thing.

I'm beginning to understand your lack of understanding of what is actually happening here.

 

[code1211]

it is as if you have not seen any of the video of tRump pronouncing how much he knows about the tax laws and applied that knowledge to the operation of his businesses

when the time comes, the jurors will certainly see that accumulated media

As a Chief Executive, Trump hires people to do jobs. Accounting is one of them.

If the accountants committed crimes, then, they committed crimes. I worked for a company that had an accountant that got creative to hide the reality of the financial health of the company.

The owners fired him and got a better accountant. That's what owners do.

It's a little like a team owner hiring a Quarterback to throw passes. If he's good at it, he keeps his job. If he's bad at it, he gets fired.

The owner just hires a new QB to throw passes. Accountants either perform well or they don't.

This ain't rocket science.

Neither are the reasons driving the ongoing Witch Hunt conducted by the partisan and biased Just Us Department.

 

[justabubba]

As a Chief Executive, Trump hires people to do jobs. Accounting is one of them.

If the accountants committed crimes, then, they committed crimes. I worked for a company that had an accountant that got creative to hide the reality of the financial health of the company.

The owners fired him and got a better accountant. That's what owners do.

It's a little like a team owner hiring a Quarterback to throw passes. If he's good at it, he keeps his job. If he's bad at it, he gets fired.

The owner just hires a new QB to throw passes. Accountants either perform well or they don't.

This ain't rocket science.

Neither are the reasons driving the ongoing Witch Hunt conducted by the partisan and biased Just Us Department.

so what you are saying is "the buck stops over there"

 

[NewfieMom]

so what you are saying is "the buck stops over there"

Exactly. And then you hope for a really, really dumb judge (or jury) who has no notion that Trump micromanages everything he possibly can and would never let any accountant go unsupervised.

 

[RAMOSS]

So, according to you, if i want to know the actual truth about one thing, I should look at a different, entirely unrelated thing.

I'm beginning to understand your lack of understanding of what is actually happening here.

No, it isn't unrelated at all. It is a technique of how to get to a 'big fish' ... by rolling up a lot of smaller targets to get cooperation. I am so sorry you are unwilling to understand such simple concepts.

 

[code1211]

Notice it says 500 business entities, not 500 businesses. trump gave every random idea its on tax id number. Every project was its own LLC.

So every business was its own business. An entity is an entity.

Folks who hate Trump love to note that he has had 5 or so bankruptcies. About one percent of his businesses. Not even all of these failed. Some were only reorganized so they could go forward.

When a guy enters into risky businesses, it's risky. Some of the ventures were failed ventures that needed someone to revive them. He did so.

Obviously, every LLC is a separate and unique Corporation or Company. The Limited Liability part of the arrangement helps protect the other holdings of the owners.

Obviously, thousands of employees were employed.

 

[j-mac]

hey, they don't try to overthrow the USA.

Sure they do...progressives are in that process right now.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Sure they do...progressives are in that process right now.

By winning free and fair elections while Republicans stage coups. Got it.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Sure they do...progressives are in that process right now.

hey, if that's what makes you feel good about supporting the people that bum rushed our Capital while chanting to hang the Republican VP go for it.

 

[j-mac]

hey, if that's what makes you feel good about supporting the people that bum rushed our Capital while chanting to hang the Republican VP go for it.

Good grief, you should really stop lying about my position concerning 1/6.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Good grief, you should really stop lying about my position concerning 1/6.

oh, so you do understand that a bunch of traitors bum rushed our Capital in support of Donald Trump.

 

[j-mac]

oh, so you do understand that a bunch of traitors bum rushed our Capital in support of Donald Trump.

You call them traitors for political impact. I call them idiots.

 

[code1211]

so what you are saying is "the buck stops over there"

I'm saying that a Chief Executive oversees departments and that he puts department heads at the head of the departments.

A boss I had once noted for me in describing what he expected: "If I have to do your job, I don't need you". Pretty clear statement.

I don't know about you, but, when I was working, if my boss or anyone else tried to do my job or interfered in the completion of my assigned duties, I was insulted that he did not trust me to do the job.

Are you one of those guys who looked for someone, anyone, else to do their work for them?

 

[CaughtInThe]

You call them traitors for political impact. I call them idiots.

yeah, they weren't there for political reasons or anything.


but i do like how you subtly tried to change why they were there to protect them. very smart.

 

[code1211]

No, it isn't unrelated at all. It is a technique of how to get to a 'big fish' ... by rolling up a lot of smaller targets to get cooperation. I am so sorry you are unwilling to understand such simple concepts.

Gaining a predefined confession or accusation using torture.

Are you seriously asserting that is is a way to get an actual and factual understanding of what really happened?

If you say this thing that I'm demanding you say, then i will stop torturing you.

This is evidence of torture- nothing else.

Our Just Us Department prosecutors must stay up late dreaming that they are helping out in the Spanish Inquisition.