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New whistle blower? Jack Abramoff

jfuh

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The development of Jack Abramoff is interesting. He's tied to several of the government's highest officials and has pleaded guilty to conspiring and bribery.
Now various politicians are trying to distancing themselves from this guy by donating the money to, ironically, Native tribes.
This guy is not only tied closely to several republicans but also to a few democrats as well, perhaps even Clinton too.
I'm very interested in how this will unfold. Particularly of just how deep this rabbit hole goes. Will he blow the lid wide open? Or merely become a puff of smoke and dissappate?
Your inputs?
 

aps

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jfuh said:
The development of Jack Abramoff is interesting. He's tied to several of the government's highest officials and has pleaded guilty to conspiring and bribery.
Now various politicians are trying to distancing themselves from this guy by donating the money to, ironically, Native tribes.
This guy is not only tied closely to several republicans but also to a few democrats as well, perhaps even Clinton too.
I'm very interested in how this will unfold. Particularly of just how deep this rabbit hole goes. Will he blow the lid wide open? Or merely become a puff of smoke and dissappate?
Your inputs?
Check out these threads. :)

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=7039

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=6954
 

Pacridge

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jfuh said:
The development of Jack Abramoff is interesting. He's tied to several of the government's highest officials and has pleaded guilty to conspiring and bribery.
Now various politicians are trying to distancing themselves from this guy by donating the money to, ironically, Native tribes.
This guy is not only tied closely to several republicans but also to a few democrats as well, perhaps even Clinton too.
I'm very interested in how this will unfold. Particularly of just how deep this rabbit hole goes. Will he blow the lid wide open? Or merely become a puff of smoke and dissappate?
Your inputs?
It would be nice if out of all this came some changes to get the money to stop flowing from special interest group and lobbyist to our law makers in both parties. Maybe there's a chance that this will force those in power to somehow close the feeding bag.

I'm more then willing to let the investigation take it's course. But I hope whom ever get his head caught in the cookie jar on this gets it chopped off. I don't care if it's %10 of this party or %50 of that party. If they're dirty get rid of them.
 

Conflict

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Pacridge said:
It would be nice if out of all this came some changes to get the money to stop flowing from special interest group and lobbyist to our law makers in both parties. Maybe there's a chance that this will force those in power to somehow close the feeding bag.

I'm more then willing to let the investigation take it's course. But I hope whom ever get his head caught in the cookie jar on this gets it chopped off. I don't care if it's %10 of this party or %50 of that party. If they're dirty get rid of them.
Indeed the issue of American politics has never been so relevant. There is one thing that so many Americans have seemed to have forgotten..... It is not an issue of right v. left. We should move forward with a unified belief.. and above all, corruption in our ranks is the greatest threat to our nation....

We must always find a way to agree to disagree. We must find common ground which holds a limited tolerance for a majority mutiny. Let's not polarize each other with trivial issues. May we realize what our founding fathers intended... for if not we are only a nation controlled by the will of money, power, greed, and ulterior motive. Not by the principles and ideas that originaly forged the great concept of democracy and independent thought.
 
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cnredd

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Conflict said:
Indeed the issue of American politics has never been so relevant. There is one thing that so many Americans have seemed to have forgotten..... It is not an issue of right v. left. We should move forward with a unified belief.. and above all, corruption in our ranks is the greatest threat to our nation....

We must always find a way to agree to disagree. We must find common ground which holds a limited tolerance for a majority mutiny. Let's not polarize each other with trivial issues. May we realize what our founding fathers intended... for if not we are only a nation controlled by the will of money, power, greed, and ulterior motive. Not by the principles and ideas that originaly forged the great concept of democracy and independent thought.
Shouldn't this have a Sousa march in the background?...:2wave:
 
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jfuh said:
I'm very interested in how this will unfold. Particularly of just how deep this rabbit hole goes. Will he blow the lid wide open? Or merely become a puff of smoke and dissappate?
Your inputs?
I think we'll see at least a few members of Congress decide not to run in the upcoming midterms so that they can "spend more time at home with their loving wives and great kids."

Legal proceddings will quietly begin, I think, not long after that. People will be disgraced and convicted of crimes, I've no doubt, but the dirty work will be done out of sight and mind, to the degree that that is possible. Everyone will think the problem just went away...
 

Pacridge

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Stupiderthanthou said:
I think we'll see at least a few members of Congress decide not to run in the upcoming midterms so that they can "spend more time at home with their loving wives and great kids."

Legal proceddings will quietly begin, I think, not long after that. People will be disgraced and convicted of crimes, I've no doubt, but the dirty work will be done out of sight and mind, to the degree that that is possible. Everyone will think the problem just went away...
Man, I hope not. But you could be right. This whole thing could cause some people to demand changes that the powers that be fear most. Namely cutting off their self feeding money tube.

I want every one of these lying, cheating bastards perp walked out of their homes, offices or where ever they be. None of this "Club Fed" crap, either. Marion should be the first choice, if it's full Terre Haute will do. None of this 2-3 year BS either, or god forbid probation. You violated and ripped off the very people you were suppose to be helping. You were being paid to help them, you swore an oath. Ten years min. Maybe the next guy will think twice before he decided he can't live without a 1850 Louis Phillipe period commode.

Someone else on here mentioned it's not illegal for a lobbyist to donated money to a congressman. I'm sorry I think it damned well ought to be. I know this case is more complex. But really should we be allowing groups, people or corporations to give our elected officials any money at all? Does anybody really believe this isn't simply an attempt to buy votes? At a min. it's selling access. Don't have the cash? Then you don't get your position or point of view expressed.

I have no idea if it's always been this bad. But I think it is bad now and we should be demanding change. It's not legal for you to sell your vote. It shouldn't be legal for your congressman to do so. But if people don't demand it change... it won't. Our elected officials, all of them, have a vested interest in keeping the status quo. It's the money stupid.
 

jfuh

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Pacridge said:
Someone else on here mentioned it's not illegal for a lobbyist to donated money to a congressman. I'm sorry I think it damned well ought to be. I know this case is more complex. But really should we be allowing groups, people or corporations to give our elected officials any money at all? Does anybody really believe this isn't simply an attempt to buy votes? At a min. it's selling access. Don't have the cash? Then you don't get your position or point of view expressed.

I have no idea if it's always been this bad. But I think it is bad now and we should be demanding change. It's not legal for you to sell your vote. It shouldn't be legal for your congressman to do so. But if people don't demand it change... it won't. Our elected officials, all of them, have a vested interest in keeping the status quo. It's the money stupid.
Politicians these days whether blue or red do not serve the people. They serve the lobbyists. I think that the US should do away with all lobbyists. I mean what's the point of them anyway? What sane people like you and I can't make a damned decisions without having to have some 3rd party tell me what to do?
These lobbyists have way too much power in thier hands and way way too much money. Capitalism does not mean that votes are for sale as well. I truly hope that all those people even closly related with Abramoff are dragged out into the street and showcased and tried publicly, both blues and reds. Really need to keep these so called "special interests" out of our system.
 
H

hipsterdufus

jfuh said:
Politicians these days whether blue or red do not serve the people. They serve the lobbyists. I think that the US should do away with all lobbyists. I mean what's the point of them anyway? What sane people like you and I can't make a damned decisions without having to have some 3rd party tell me what to do?
These lobbyists have way too much power in thier hands and way way too much money. Capitalism does not mean that votes are for sale as well. I truly hope that all those people even closly related with Abramoff are dragged out into the street and showcased and tried publicly, both blues and reds. Really need to keep these so called "special interests" out of our system.
Bingo. We have the chance for real reform with this Abramoff scandal. Imagine how much more money could be invested back into our country if it was not used to buy politicians.

There is a proposal out there to raise Congress' salary to upwards of 400K a year and at the same time make all incumbents ineligible for campaign contributions. A fund would be set up where the the incumbent would get 80% of the money a challenger raises from a special election fund. That way incumbents would NEVER have to worry about fundraising, and could concentrate on doing the jobs they were hired by the people to do.

I don't have all of the details yet, but clearly, the iron is hot to make some radical changes to the way lobbyists control our government.
 

Pacridge

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ANAV said:
Abramoff's money is not just connected to Republicans. It's funny how the media is failing to report all the Democrats who received the tainted money. Almost 90% of Senate Democrats received donations.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/1/6/100900.shtml

Well first off the media is reporting that Dems took some of this money. Every time I read a story it's in there. The stories do point out the GOP got the lions share of the cash but I haven't read a story that said it only went to the GOP. And I'll give you that the focus is on the GOP. But every list I've seen has the amount of money largely going to the GOP. All the stories I've read have his personal ties and history more closely associated with the GOP. Plus it makes sense to me that if someone were trying to buy votes, they'd be paying the party in power. Who knows maybe they'll keep digging and find out this guy was paying off elected officials back in the late 80's and a large % of those payoffs went to Dems. If that is the case they should round those Dems up as well.

Second your source is Newsmax. I didn't waste a lot of my time researching their numbers. I did grab my local morning paper and read, in their story which spends quite a bit of space on how much local Dems got from Abramoff, in the first paragraph it notes that Sen. Patty Murray, Wa. D received 40K from a tribe Abramoff did work with. Newsmax turns that number in 78+K, nearly doubling it. I have no idea, Murray said she got the cash directly from the tribe and had no involvement with the lobbyist. For all I know Jack handed her the cash himself, in a paper bag, in a dark alley late at night. What I do know is 40K is not 78K and Newsmax has a long history of getting their facts inccorrect. My local paper doesn't allow people to read their stories on-line. But I did find the Seattle Times on-line had the number at 40K also. For now I'm going to believe the 40K is correct and Newsmax's 78K is BS. But I reserve the right to be proved wrong later.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorialsopinion/2002725137_moneyed08.html
 
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