New wage boost puts squeeze on teenage workers across Arizona

[Cold Dirt]

It's the Arizona Republic, so yes they are abject liars.

Those teen jobs they speak of were taken by immigrants, laid off factory workers, single Moms and people with PHds in philosophy, YEARS AGO.

Minimum Wage Issue Guide: FAQs

Single Moms make up almost 1/2 of the minimum wage earners and I think it is in their best interest that the minimum wage is raised. Think about it Rightys, 58% of US households are single Moms raising the future troopers of tomorrow and if they can't afford to feed and cloth the little fellers then they won't grow up to be healthy troopers that you'll need to fight all those wars the RW have planned. Think people, think. :roll:

I love your link......straight out of the communist handbook......

research for broadly shared prosperity

you think anyone with half a brain would that a bunch of communist at their word?

 

[Moot]

I love your link......straight out of the communist handbook......

research for broadly shared prosperity

you think anyone with half a brain would that a bunch of communist at their word?

Just think, everytime you buy a "made in China" product, you are helping to build the Communist Chinese Republic army. So how much have you invested in China, Dirt? :roll:

Most people with half a brain would check to see the sources in the link provided. But since you have less than half, allow me to post them for you. Pay particular attention to the US Department of Labor. Are they Communists in your eyes too? :roll:

Sources
Addison, John, and McKinley Blackburn. "Minimum Wages and Poverty." Industrial and Labor Relations Review. Vol. 53, No. 3.

Appelbaum, Eileen, et al. 2004. The Minimum Wage and Working Women.

Bernstein, Jared, Heidi Hartmann, and John Schmitt. The Minimum Wage Increase: A Working Woman's Issue. Washington, D.C.: Economic Policy Institute, 1999.

Bernstein, Jared, and Chauna Brocht. 2000. The Next Step: The New Minimum Wage Proposals and the Old Opposition. Washington, D.C.: Economic Policy Institute.

Bernstein, Jared. Minimum Wages and Poverty. Economic Policy Institute, 1999.

Bernstein, Jared. Another Modest Minimum Wage Increase. Economic Policy Institute, 1998.

Bernstein, Jared, and John Schmitt. Making Work Pay: The Impact of the 1996-97 Minimum Wage Increase. Economic Policy Institute, 1998.

Bernstein, Jared, and Isaac Shapiro. Buying Power of Minimum Wage at 51-Year Low. Economic Policy Institute, 2006.

Chasanov, Amy. No Longer Getting By: An Increase in the Minimum Wage Is Long Overdue. Washington, D.C.: Economic Policy Institute. 2004.

Department of Labor Web page. U.S. Department of Labor - Find It By Topic - Wages - Minimum Wage.

Fiscal Policy Institute. 2004. State Minimum Wages and Employment in Small Business. Available at Fiscal Policy Institute - Home Page.

Grossman, Jonathan. "Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938: Maximum Struggle for a Minimum Wage." Monthly Labor Review, 1978.

Levin-Waldman, Oren. The Minimum Wage Can be Raised: Lessons From the 1999 Levy Institute Survey of Small Business. Levy Institute, 1999.

Rasell, Edith, Jared Bernstein, and Heather Boushey. 2000. Step Up, Not Out: The Case for Raising the Federal Minimum Wage for Workers in Every State. Washington, D.C.: Economic Policy Institute.

Sawhill, Isabel and Adam Thomas. 2001. "A Hand Up for the Bottom Third." Washington, D.C.: The Brookings Institution.

Thompson, Jeff. Oregon's Increasing Minimum Wage Brings Raises to Former Welfare Recipients and Other Low-Wage Workers without Job Losses. Oregon Center for Public Policy, 1999.

For a closer look at research on the minimum wage, see EPI's publications No Longer Getting By, Employment and the Minimum Wage, Making Work Pay, The Next Step, Minimum Wages and Poverty, and The Minimum Wage: A Working Woman's Issue.

 

[RightinNYC]

Minimum Wage Issue Guide: FAQs

Single Moms make up almost 1/2 of the minimum wage earners and I think it is in their best interest that the minimum wage is raised. Think about it Rightys, 58% of US households are single Moms raising the future troopers of tomorrow and if they can't afford to feed and cloth the little fellers then they won't grow up to be healthy troopers that you'll need to fight all those wars the RW have planned. Think people, think. :roll:

This is absolutely and utterly false.

Many advocates of higher minimum wages argue that the minimum wage needs to rise to help low-income single parents. However, minimum wage workers do not fit this stereotype more than the population as a whole. Just 6.1 percent of minimum wage workers over the age of 24 are single parents working full-time, compared to 6.3 percent of all hourly workers.

And lest you think that there is a statistical significance in the fact that this subset is only of those over 24,

A single parent is defined as someone who reports that he or she is the head of the household, has one or more of his or her own children present in the household, and who is either widowed, divorced, separated, or was never married. Looking at all workers, irrespective of age, minimum wage workers are less likely to be single parents working full-time than the population as a whole—4.2 percent vs. 5.6 percent in the population as a whole. This is because large numbers of teenagers and young adults, who are less likely to be single parents, earn the minimum wage. As reported in Table 2, taking into account only workers older than 24 years results in no statistically significant difference between minimum wage workers and the population as a whole.

Furthermore, take a wild guess what the AVERAGE household income of someone who is earning the minimum wage is.

No, seriously, take a guess.

10,000? 15,000?

50,000.

But how can that be? Because the vast vast majority of people working for minimum wage are either dependents living in a house where parents are providing for them or are spouses working part-time jobs where the other spouse works a more lucrative full-time job.


Who Earns the Minimum Wage--Single Parents or Suburban Teenagers?

Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2005

 

[RightinNYC]

Just think, everytime you buy a "made in China" product, you are helping to build the Communist Chinese Republic army. So how much have you invested in China, Dirt? :roll:

Most people with half a brain would check to see the sources in the link provided. But since you have less than half, allow me to post them for you. Pay particular attention to the US Department of Labor. Are they Communists in your eyes too? :roll:

1) First off, even your own source directly contradicts you. You claimed:

Single Moms make up almost 1/2 of the minimum wage earners

Your source says:

An estimated 14.9 million workers (11% of the workforce) would benefit from an increase in the federal minimum wage to $7.25 by 2008.

More than one-quarter (26%) of the workers who would benefit from an increase to $7.25 are parents of children under age 18, including 1,395,000 single parents.

So, if there are 1,395,000 single parents who would benefit from an increase to $7.25, and there are 14.9 million workers total who would benefit, then that means that only 9.3% of all minimum wage affected earners are single parents. (I'll even let slip that you claimed single mothers, which would reduce it even further.

No matter how you look at it, 9.3% is drastically different than "almost half."

Secondly, even this number is drastically flawed. Unlike your claim, which was that there were this many "minimum-wage earners," your source uses a MUCH broader description of "affected" people.

An estimated 14.9 million workers (11% of the workforce) would benefit from an increase in the federal minimum wage to $7.25 by 2008. Of these workers, 6.6 million would be directly affected and 8.3 million would indirectly receive raises due to the spillover effect of a minimum wage increase.

“Directly affected” workers refers to those earning less than $7.25 per hour and thus would receive an immediate raise following the passage of a federal minimum wage increase. “Indirectly affected” workers refers to those who are earning within a few dollars above the proposed minimum wage.

So your source considers someone currently earning, say $10 an hour, to be a "minimum wage affected person." Now, I'm not disputing the fact that this increase likely will have some impact on their wages, but its impossible to know how much it will, even aside from the fact that its completely tangental to the point at hand.

No matter how badly you want to believe statistics, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't read claims critically.

 

[ludahai]

Not teenagers, some teenagers, and those business's such as Pepi's Pizza in south Phoenix don't deserve to be in business if they can't afford to pay their workers minimum-wage. Those few teenagers who lost their jobs can apply at Business's like Dominoes, and Pizza Hut, etc, because they are begging for drivers and deliveres.

So quit your lying just because you hate minimum-wage and all the good it does for the working people!

So, you hate mom and pop businesses that are trying to provide a local product and keep money locally rather than give it to the big Multi-National restaurant chains? Are you sure you are a Leftist Democrat?

 

[KidRocks]

So in other words, small businesses don't deserve to exist at all, and you want enormous corporations to become even larger. That's a strange position coming from you...but at least you correctly identified the consequences of a minimum wage hike.

It's called 'tough-love' pal, you've heard of that term I'm sure, after all, the conservatives coined that phrase.

Ever heard of Wal-Mart?

 

[KidRocks]

So, you hate mom and pop businesses that are trying to provide a local product and keep money locally rather than give it to the big Multi-National restaurant chains? Are you sure you are a Leftist Democrat?

I don't hate mom and pop businesses, I'm just saying that if you cannot afford to pay minimum-wage to your workers get the hell out of the business pal.

Besides, you right wingers are lying through your collective teeths. If I am correct, I believe the minimum wage increase does not apply to those mom and pop businesses employing under 5 to 7 employees, something like that!

Look it up!

 

[Stinger]

It's the Arizona Republic, so yes they are abject liars.

Prove it then or retract the accusation.

Those teen jobs they speak of were taken by immigrants,

They would have to be paid the same amount, you're making things up now.

Single Moms make up almost 1/2 of the minimum wage earners and I think it is in their best interest that the minimum wage is raised.

Of course it is in their best interest, it would be in my best interest for the government to tell my employer to raise my pay by the same percentage. But tell that to the young people who no longer can get work.

Think about it Rightys, 58% of US households are single Moms raising the future troopers of tomorrow and if they can't afford to feed and cloth the little fellers then they won't grow up to be healthy troopers that you'll need to fight all those wars the RW have planned. Think people, think. :roll:

First that is factually incorrect. Nor do all single women make minimum wage. That being said then they should do like my wife and I. Get married and raise those little troopers to be big troopers or Marines in our case.

 

[Moot]

Single Moms make up almost 1/2 of the minimum wage earners and I think it is in their best interest that the minimum wage is raised.

This is absolutely and utterly false.

No, its not because I really do think that.

And lest you think that there is a statistical significance in the fact that this subset is only of those over 24,

Huh?

Furthermore, take a wild guess what the AVERAGE household income of someone who is earning the minimum wage is.

$10,721 a year.

No, seriously, take a guess.

10,000? 15,000?

50,000.

$10,721 a year.

But how can that be? Because the vast vast majority of people working for minimum wage are either dependents living in a house where parents are providing for them or are spouses working part-time jobs where the other spouse works a more lucrative full-time job.


Who Earns the Minimum Wage--Single Parents or Suburban Teenagers?

Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2005

Um, I think I'll take the word of the US Department of Labor over the Heritage Foundation stink tank, thank you very much.


But your other link from the government more than adequately proves that I am correct and sadly that you are mistaken...again.

...Minimum wage workers tend to be young. About half of workers earning $5.15 or less were under age 25, and about one-fourth of workers earning at or below the minimum wage were age 16-19. Among employed teenagers, about 9 percent earned $5.15 or less. About 2 percent of workers age 25 and over earned the minimum wage or less. Among those age 65 and over, the proportion was about 3 percent. (See table 1 and table 7.)

See there? It says that half the workers earning min. wage are under age 25. And of that, only 1/4 are age 16 to 19. So guess who the other 3/4 of minimum wage earners under 25 are and then guess the average age of most single mothers?

... Southern states (and the District of Columbia) also tended to have a higher percentage of unwed mothers with infants compared with the national average. These included the District of Columbia (53.4 percent), Mississippi (45.7 percent) and Louisiana (40.2 percent of all mothers).

Among the states with the lowest percentages of unwed mothers with infants were Utah (14.7 percent), Minnesota (20.6 percent) and Idaho (21.6 percent).

Teen births were also more prevalent in the South, with Arkansas (where 13.3 percent of births were to teens), Mississippi (12.8 percent) and Louisiana (12.1 percent) among those above the national average (7.7 percent).

The analysis, from a sample of over 3 million covering four years of American Community Survey data (2000 – 2003), showed a link between the proportion of mothers with infants living below the poverty level and low levels of labor force participation, as well as a high proportion of teen births among unmarried mothers.

In fact, one in every two unmarried mothers who had recently given birth were living below the poverty level — four times the rate of their married counterparts. Nearly 30 percent of all new mothers were unmarried.

US Census Press Releases

Naa na na naaa na. :2razz:

 

[Kandahar]

It's called 'tough-love' pal, you've heard of that term I'm sure, after all, the conservatives coined that phrase.

Ever heard of Wal-Mart?

This is ridiculous. The more barriers to entry there are, the fewer people who will start businesses at all. This GREATLY increases the unemployment rate. For a prime example of this, see France, where the government has made it so expensive and risky to start a business that it simply doesn't happen anymore.

 

[Moot]

Prove it then or retract the accusation.

They're a rightwing rag. Nuff said.

They would have to be paid the same amount, you're making things up now.

Yes, they would have to be paid the same amount. So? I did say immigrant and not illegal aliens, didn't I? But in California, another border state, illegals have also filled those old summer jobs as well. So why wouldn't it be the same in Arizona?

Of course it is in their best interest, it would be in my best interest for the government to tell my employer to raise my pay by the same percentage. But tell that to the young people who no longer can get work.

Most states have raised their minimum income to a living wage which is higher than even the proposed minimum wage. Yet their economy or small businesses didn't suffer one iddy biddy bit. Perhaps Arizonia just hates poor single mothers more than other states.

 

[Kandahar]

I don't hate mom and pop businesses, I'm just saying that if you cannot afford to pay minimum-wage to your workers get the hell out of the business pal.

Besides, you right wingers are lying through your collective teeths. If I am correct, I believe the minimum wage increase does not apply to those mom and pop businesses employing under 5 to 7 employees, something like that!

Look it up!

There are plenty of small businesses that are bigger than that. A business with 100 employees is relatively small, yet you want to force an undue burden on them.

There are lots of ways to reduce poverty in this country. Forcing employers to pay more than the market wage isn't one of them. Promoting conglomeration certainly isn't one of them.

 

[Stinger]

Originally Posted by Stinger
Prove it then or retract the accusation.

They're a rightwing rag. Nuff said.

IOW you can't. Your dismissals don't substitute for rebuttal.

Yes, they would have to be paid the same amount. So? I did say immigrant and not illegal aliens, didn't I? But in California, another border state, illegals have also filled those old summer jobs as well. So why wouldn't it be the same in Arizona?

Your made up assertions do not subsitute for rebuttal.

Most states have raised their minimum income to a living wage which is higher than even the proposed minimum wage. Yet their economy or small businesses didn't suffer one iddy biddy bit.

Facts not in evidence and many of those only apply to business doing business with the government.

Perhaps Arizonia just hates poor single mothers more than other states.

So that is the conclusion your intellect leads you too. I wouldn't spread that around too much.

 

[KidRocks]

There are plenty of small businesses that are bigger than that. A business with 100 employees is relatively small, yet you want to force an undue burden on them.

There are lots of ways to reduce poverty in this country. Forcing employers to pay more than the market wage isn't one of them. Promoting conglomeration certainly isn't one of them.

A business with 100 employees is NOT a mom and pop business, thus, if they cannot afford to pay their employees minimum wage than get the hell out of that business pal. The list is long with businesses ready to take your place.

Minimum wage works for all, it has been proven over and over, again and again, much to the dismay of the anti-minimum wage haters!

 

[Kandahar]

A business with 100 employees is NOT a mom and pop business, thus, if they cannot afford to pay their employees minimum wage than get the hell out of that business pal. The list is long with businesses ready to take your place.

A 100-employee business is still a small business though. The "businesses ready to take your place" are the Wal-Marts of the world. Why are you trying to make it impossible for anyone to start a new business unless they're already rich?

Minimum wage works for all, it has been proven over and over, again and again, much to the dismay of the anti-minimum wage haters!

Then perhaps you can explain how it helps the poor to consolidate power into the hands of a few corporate leviathans, and to make it impossible for anyone else to compete with them. There is a reason monopolies are illegal.

 

[Kandahar]

A couple other questions for you to consider:

You believe that it's the responsibility of the businessman to provide enough money for his labor (even if it means overpaying the market wage) that they can live decent lifestyles. Correct?

Is it also the responsibility of the businessman to overpay for his raw materials, so that his supplier can live a decent lifestyle?

Is it also the responsibility of the businessman to sell his product for lower than the market price, so that his customers can live decent lifestyles?

Is it also the responsibility of the businessman to overpay the trucking company who delivers his product to the stores, so that the trucker can live a decent lifestyle?

 

[Iriemon]

Where is it in the story which you tried to dismiss. And the fact remains if he has to pay his full time full year employees more then he can't hire as many part-time summer employees.

Summer jobs were mentioned in the very first post and you're trying to ague that it is out of bounds to discuss it?

Are you calling him a liar?

No

Well tell the people that lose a job or find opportunities are fewer that those are just minor effects. But glad you note the benifits of tax cuts which creates jobs which puts on pressure to raise wages by market forces and not goverment fiat.

Well tell the people that depend on the MW and can at least earn closer to a subsitance level of earnings why they should make sub-poverty wages.

Tax cuts create jobs? Coulda fooled me.

Well of course it benefit's the person who is getting more money without an earned reason to do so, merely by government action. But without any additional output or value to the employer it is certainly not benefit it is an increased cost.

Gald you note that the benefits of MW so that working people can earn a subsistance living.

Where did conservatives ever say those people making minimum wage would not make more money if you raised the minimum wage? As long as they keep their jobs that is. Which as the article cited demonstrated is not a given by any means.

Glad you agree.

 

[Iriemon]

This is ridiculous. The more barriers to entry there are, the fewer people who will start businesses at all. This GREATLY increases the unemployment rate. For a prime example of this, see France, where the government has made it so expensive and risky to start a business that it simply doesn't happen anymore.

What happened to the unemployment rate in the 90s when the MW was raised several times?

 

[Iriemon]

There are plenty of small businesses that are bigger than that. A business with 100 employees is relatively small, yet you want to force an undue burden on them.

There are lots of ways to reduce poverty in this country. Forcing employers to pay more than the market wage isn't one of them. Promoting conglomeration certainly isn't one of them.

Why is raising the MW an undue burden on small business as opposed to large businesses? I hear this over and over, but I've never seen any data to back it up.

 

[Iriemon]

A 100-employee business is still a small business though. The "businesses ready to take your place" are the Wal-Marts of the world. Why are you trying to make it impossible for anyone to start a new business unless they're already rich?



Then perhaps you can explain how it helps the poor to consolidate power into the hands of a few corporate leviathans, and to make it impossible for anyone else to compete with them. There is a reason monopolies are illegal.

What is your grounds for these assertions? Did a significant number of small businesses fail when the MW was raised in the 90s? Was it impossible to start a business then? Are you asserting the the MW makes it tougher for a small business to compete with a larger one? Why?

 

[Kandahar]

What happened to the unemployment rate in the 90s when the MW was raised several times?

The problems caused by raising the minimum wage were more than offset by the benefits resulting from the explosion of capitalism and free trade in the 1990s.

Just because the minimum wage was raised and the unemployment rate fell doesn't mean that one caused the other. There is no way that it could NOT cause unemployment; it's no different than any other price floor. If you have a price floor above the market price for a commodity, the supply will ALWAYS exceed the demand.

 

[Kandahar]

Why is raising the MW an undue burden on small business as opposed to large businesses? I hear this over and over, but I've never seen any data to back it up.

It means that small companies need even MORE starting capital to be competitive with larger corporations. Labor is generally a greater fraction of total expenses for small businesses. If I was planning to start a business for $100,000 and it suddenly will cost me $120,000, that is an enormous additional expense and I'm much less likely to start the business.

This is why the CEO of Wal-Mart favors a minimum wage hike. Not because he has any concern for the poor, but because it helps his business by shutting out the competition.

 

[Iriemon]

The problems caused by raising the minimum wage were more than offset by the benefits resulting from the explosion of capitalism and free trade in the 1990s.

Just because the minimum wage was raised and the unemployment rate fell doesn't mean that one caused the other. There is no way that it could NOT cause unemployment; it's no different than any other price floor. If you have a price floor above the market price for a commodity, the supply will ALWAYS exceed the demand.

Agreed. And as you observe -- just because the MW is raised does not mean that unemployment will increase.

 

[Kandahar]

What is your grounds for these assertions? Did a significant number of small businesses fail when the MW was raised in the 90s? Was it impossible to start a business then? Are you asserting the the MW makes it tougher for a small business to compete with a larger one? Why?

Yes, I am asserting that it makes it more difficult for a small business to compete with a large benefit.

Let's examine the typical pre-tax expenses for a small business and a large corporation. I'm just making these numbers up off the top of my head, but you get the point.

JOE'S COFFEE SHOP:
Labor 50%
Coffee 25%
Misc 15%
Profit 10%

STARBUCKS:
Labor 20%
Coffee 10%
Promotion 40%
Legal 5%
Misc 15%
Profit 10%


Labor (along with supplies) is THE major expense for a bare-bones operation, whereas it's only a small fraction of a larger company. Therefore, increased labor costs affect the small businesses much more.

 

[Kandahar]

Agreed. And as you observe -- just because the MW is raised does not mean that unemployment will increase.

That was not my observation at all. Minimum wage - just like any other price floor higher than the market price of a commodity - MUST cause a surplus of supply over demand. And what is another term for a surplus of labor? Unemployment.