New rules for impeachment procedures

[lemmiwinx]

Obviously you respond in this manner, because the numbers are against you. Have you seen the Indies that swung over? Care to address them?

Only Indie I'm aware of is Elizabeth Warren and she's kinda backed off that claim.

 

[Chomsky]

No rules have been changed for this inquiry. This is Trump's Grand Jury where evidence is gathered and charges filed. There are no cross examinations and the defense cannot call witnesses in a Grand Jury. It is exactly like the Constitution states it should be.

Exactly. These guys seem to have a problem with the Constitution ...

 

[Chomsky]

Only Indie I'm aware of is Elizabeth Warren and she's kinda backed off that claim.

Man, I'm not sure what to make of this reply? Are you aware of what I'm claiming? It's nothing to do with Warren. I'm speaking of the Indie voters.

Anyway, ignore the polls at your own peril ...

 

[iguanaman]

Exactly. These guys seem to have a problem with the Constitution ...

Of course they do. Trump has had the same problem since he was in office. Trump thinks we should behave more like the N. Koreans do with their leader and has said as much.

 

[Chomsky]

LOL That was not why he won...the polls were mostly correct and hillary won the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes. The 3 Blue States were swung by hair thin margins driven by Democrats who got duped by the trolls on Social media. Those 50 million stolen Facebook accounts were put to good use and Bernie supporters were expertly targeted with the data Manfort gave the Russians. It's no mystery, Trumps election was illegitimate because of foreign interference and the history books will state that.

Bernie Sanders Voters Helped Trump Win and Here's Proof

Thing is, too many Trump supporters look at the Electoral College totals, and believe Trump had a solid win. They're oblivious to how razor thin his win was.

As an aside, Trump's definitely not going to take MI in 2020, and I doubt he'll take WI either. No idea about PA. IA may be in contention. I see the Midwest becoming more difficult for Trump.

 

[Moot]

What's too damned bad is that you are incapable of explaining why the Democrats needed to change the impeachment rules to their benefit?

They're following the Constitution's rules for impeachment. Just be glad it's not the 25th amendment.

 

[lemmiwinx]

Man, I'm not sure what to make of this reply? Are you aware of what I'm claiming? It's nothing to do with Warren. I'm speaking of the Indie voters.

Anyway, ignore the polls at your own peril ...

Polls are useless. That's all I'm saying you can skew a poll about any subject and get the result you want.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

He just denied those same numbers in another post of mine, claiming the polls "have too many democrats" in them! yep. I'm dead serious, here.

twump sycophants, much like twump himself, are unmoored from reality.

 

[Chomsky]

Polls are useless. That's all I'm saying you can skew a poll about any subject and get the result you want.

Well, the site I've given you is actually a poll aggregator. For your argument to prevail, you'd have to believe that the entire plethora of polls used in aggregation were all fixed? And that's not true. There's many high-quality polls in the mix. And 538 was highly accurate in 2016, getting within a little over a point of the final vote tallies. That's pretty damn accurate, as polling goes.

But you're missing a key point. We're discussing your claim that Trump has gotten more popular since the impeachment inquiry, but we've seen all the polls move against him, most within a similar amount. It's one thing to claim a poll's methodology is defective and cannot produce an accurate absolute quantity. But we're not speaking of absolute quantities, but rather of the direction of movement. They've all consistently moved in the same direction (against Trump). To ignore this phenomenon, strikes me as being a bit ... careless.

 

[Chomsky]

twump sycophants, much like twump himself, are unmoored from reality.

I guess ...

 

[Chomsky]

They're following the Constitution's rules for impeachment. Just be glad it's not the 25th amendment.

Fair point.

Though some Trump supporters would probably argue about the legitimacy of the 25th, too. In essence, some seem to not believe in the Constitution or constitutionality.

 

[trixare4kids]

Well, the site I've given you is actually a poll aggregator. For your argument to prevail, you'd have to believe that the entire plethora of polls used in aggregation were all fixed? And that's not true. There's many high-quality polls in the mix. And 538 was highly accurate in 2016, getting within a little over a point of the final vote tallies. That's pretty damn accurate, as polling goes.

But you're missing a key point. We're discussing your claim that Trump has gotten more popular since the impeachment inquiry, but we've seen all the polls move against him, most within a similar amount. It's one thing to claim a poll's methodology is defective and cannot produce an accurate absolute quantity. But we're not speaking of absolute quantities, but rather of the direction of movement. They've all consistently moved in the same direction (against Trump). To ignore this phenomenon, strikes me as being a bit ... careless.

Trump won in 2016 despite being unpopular. Trump defies the odds.

In fact, he was the least liked candidate since 1980.
Trump Won Despite Being Unpopular, So Can He Govern That Way? | FiveThirtyEight

 

[Chomsky]

Trump won in 2016 despite being unpopular. Trump defies the odds.

In fact, he was the least liked candidate since 1980.
Trump Won Despite Being Unpopular, So Can He Govern That Way? | FiveThirtyEight

With all due respect, this is not relevant to the discussion.

 

[Bullseye]

He just denied those same numbers in another post of mine, claiming the polls "have too many democrats" in them! yep. I'm dead serious, here.

He may not be that wrong. Polls use different sampling - all adults, registered voters, and like voters which can make a difference. Also if the sample isn't balanced ideologically like the total population distortions occur. For instance in the infamous Fox News "should Trump be impeached and removed from office" The polling company - run be a strong dem supporter, polled registered voters and weighted the sample 48% Dem 31% GOP and 21% independent; actual population is 31% dem, 29% GOP and 40% independent.

Beyond that, we're still a year away from the election so there's an error for that as well.

 

[trixare4kids]

With all due respect, this is not relevant to the discussion.

I was sort of agreeing with you that he hasn't gotten more popular according to poll data, but went on to getting elected anyway despite his unpopularity.

 

[marke]

There was a special prosecutor in the Clinton impeachment who gathered all the facts and they voted based on the report. In this case, there is no special prosecutor. Democrats are just investigating and questioning witnesses. This is the fact-gathering phase. Trump will have his chance to defend himself after that phase.

Perhaps you missed the fact that the republican Judiciary Committee in 1998 showed consideration and compassion toward democrats in working out a bipartisan set of procedural rules for the impeachment of Clinton while the democrats in 2019 have refused to cooperate in the slightest with republicans in their secret closed democrat only semi-official process?

 

[bullseyelqcs]

Perhaps you missed the fact that the republican Judiciary Committee in 1998 showed consideration and compassion toward democrats in working out a bipartisan set of procedural rules for the impeachment of Clinton while the democrats in 2019 have refused to cooperate in the slightest with republicans in their secret closed democrat only semi-official process?

Why do you keep acting as if there are no Republicans on any of these committees?

 

[marke]

Bollicks. Want new rules? Ask Merrick Garland.

Has he got a copy of the bipartisan impeachment procedural rules drafted by the House Judiciary Committee in 1988? Doesn't he also see how different the republicans dealt with democrats in 1998 than democrats deal with republicans in 2019?

 

[Chomsky]

He may not be that wrong. Polls use different sampling - all adults, registered voters, and like voters which can make a difference. Also if the sample isn't balanced ideologically like the total population distortions occur. For instance in the infamous Fox News "should Trump be impeached and removed from office" The polling company - run be a strong dem supporter, polled registered voters and weighted the sample 48% Dem 31% GOP and 21% independent; actual population is 31% dem, 29% GOP and 40% independent.

With all due respect, I believe the bolded above is erroneous for most non-extreme sample groups. Culling one's polling group to meet demographic representation, adds it's own bias errors. The standard methodology for quality polls is to use weighting to correct for sample group non-normal variation. This has been accepted practice for eons, and all quality polls do it.

But let's remember what the poster was claiming. He claimed Trump's approval numbers grew in a positive fashion since the impeachment inquiry began. This is demonstrably incorrect, and all the polls since have been seemingly unanimous in showing this, and they also moved not just in the same direction but in similar quantities. I don't see how anyone can argue against such overwhelming evidence.

It's one thing to question a poll's specific numerical quantity, like 48%, 52%, etc. It's a whole 'nother thing to question all the polls moving in the same direction with similar changes in quantity.

Beyond that, we're still a year away from the election so there's an error for that as well.

Agreed!

But that wasn't the point the poster was making ...

 

[marke]

There was? Who?

Adam Schitff.

 

[Chomsky]

I was sort of agreeing with you that he hasn't gotten more popular according to poll data, but went on to getting elected anyway despite his unpopularity.

Ah, I didn't see your point. Fair enough.

 

[marke]

The crooked Democrats changed the rules to work to their advantage almost a year ago.
Kangaroo type justice, one sided :bs, no transparency or accountability to the public.
The American people should not stand for closed door secrecy.

Goodbye civilized discourse and love and respect for one another. The anti-God and Jew party is now in charge reminding us they are not bound by Christian rules of civility but by the new dog-eat-crap jack-booted rules of the barbarian democrap party.

 

[vegas giants]

Goodbye civilized discourse and love and respect for one another. The anti-God and Jew party is now in charge reminding us they are not bound by Christian rules of civility but by the new dog-eat-crap jack-booted rules of the barbarian democrap party.

Jew party? Wow

 

[bullseyelqcs]

Goodbye civilized discourse and love and respect for one another. The anti-God and Jew party is now in charge reminding us they are not bound by Christian rules of civility but by the new dog-eat-crap jack-booted rules of the barbarian democrap party.

Hope you weren't expecting a Hanukkah card from Bibi....:shock:

 

[Casper]

Republicans allowed democrats to openly and fairly participate in the impeachment proceedings against Clinton in 1998. Democrats in the proceedings against Trump have told the republicans to go to hell of they think the democrats will reciprocate by allowing republicans to participate in their closed door unofficial secret impeachment proceedings against Trump.

Here is a grateful word of thanks from democrat John Conyers to republican Judiciary Committee Chairman Henry Hyde in 1998:

"You know as well as I," Conyers told Hyde, "that whatever action this committee takes must be fair, it must be bipartisan, for it to have credibility. The American people deserve no less, and history will judge us by how well we achieve that goal."


Sorry, Mr. Conyers, Adam Schitff cannot allow republicans to participate because his case is being built on inaccurate and dishonest twists of evidence for the purpose of achieving the supreme goal of all democrats leading up to the 2020 election: 'Trump must be impeached before he has the chance to stomp the democrat candidate in the 2020 election.'

Democrats have abandoned bipartisan format of Clinton impeachment

The are Republicans on the Committee investigating the facts, and they will have a vote when/if comes down to impeachment. The Senate will then have in their hands, guess who controls that branch of Congress? Good grief the Dems are not doing anything the Repubs would and will do.