New National Anthem Yes / No

[FinnMacCool]

This liberal is inspired in the depths of my heart by the Start Spangled Banner. I am not a pacifist, and believe some wars are definitely worth fighting, and those wars deserve a glorified memory. The Star Spangled Banner is about the metaphor behind the struggle of war... adversity tries to grind you down, all can seem hopeless at times. But no, you see a symbol of hope and overcome... THAT is what this country is about. Indomitable spirit. Something we can all be inspired by.

If ever we change it, especially to some namby pampy idiotic tune like "God Bless America", I will have confirmation that I am no longer a true American. Americans seem already to be shifting away from the ideals on which this country was founded. I was raised to believe certain things about America and Americans that were shared by nearly all, whatever our political stripe, whatever our religious persuasion. These days a vocal portion of my countrymen seem bent only on finding ways around those ideals, around fundamental liberty. These people, with such delicate sensibilities, want to control everyone else. If they succeed, I will lose my Americanness, not because I have changed, but because Americans have changed. If I cannot believe that I share fundamental solidarity with my fellows, then I am, by all definitions that matter, no longer a patriot. No one is, because we no longer have a basic shared goal.

Well said. Thank you.

Its he militarism of the STAR SPANGLED BANNER that upsets liberals and leftists,but. As I have said befor the two songs most
mentioned in some circles to replace it.Have that word that scares liberls a lot,GOD. In fact if you watch some sporting events .You'd think GOD BLESS AMERICA was our national anthem .Well , proper patriotic behaviour was never something sporting events were known for.

Here is one liberal who likes that song. Why? Because it was a war that was worth fighting. We fought for what we believed in and we ended up beating one of the greatest powers in the world. Again! I draw no comparisons to the wars of todays because nowadays we don't fight for such ideals.
This is the type of song that actually makes me proud to be an american.

 

[Dezaad]

Its he militarism of the STAR SPANGLED BANNER that upsets liberals and leftists,but. As I have said befor the two songs most
mentioned in some circles to replace it.Have that word that scares liberls a lot,GOD. In fact if you watch some sporting events .You'd think GOD BLESS AMERICA was our national anthem .Well , proper patriotic behaviour was never something sporting events were known for.

The purported militarism you speak of scares very few liberals. Perhaps its because its not militarism, as I stated above. Just because something is about a battle doesn't mean its about militarism. :roll:

The Star Spangled Banner does mention god in its last stanza. Right where God belongs, an afterthought. LUV it. By the way, I seriously doubt James Madison, Thomas Jefferson or Thomas Paine would have allowed such a reference in our anthem: The History of Separation of Church and State.
All of whom believed in God, and Madison was a Christian.

Spin as you like.

God does not "scare" liberals. Most liberals believe in God, and I'd venture to say that liberals are far more comfortable with their God than most conservatives are their's. I submit as evidence for this the inexplicable insecurity conservatives typically exhibit when they encounter someone who doesn't believe in any God. By contrast, Liberal believers shrug their shoulders and say "live and let live". Conservatives seem to find it necessary to attempt to inject God into every governmental function they can; this, in order to reassure themselves that they're righteous by doing every thing they can to cow others into believing. Conservatives think that its ok to alienate non-believers in order to accomplish this, as if non-believers are somehow less American. I find the Liberal view comports with the great minds of our founders.

Liberals are confident that the wall of separation between church and state (a la Jefferson) remains timeless wisdom. They are conscious of all of the failed theocracies, and how they come into being. So were our founders.

Theocracies come into being when the people, reasonable believers and non-believers alike, fail to firmly stand against the wild forces of insecurity and fundamentalism. There were insecure fundamentalists around during the formation of the Constitution, and they were soundly repudiated, as they will be again. In spite of the objections of these fundies, the first amendment was accepted into the Constitution. It's happened several times in our 200 + year history that the religious attempt to destroy the spiritual, and they are always defeated. It is in a free society that the spiritual thrives.

Liberals are the defenders of liberty, and we are on the side of history. Look, its even the root word of LIBERal. No, Liberals are not afraid of God, and that is what bothers Conservatives.

"I have no objection to God, its his fan club I can't stand."

One failed religion dominated regime was Nazi Germany:

The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press -- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years. -- Adolf Hitler from The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1, Michael Hakeem, Ph.D. (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pp. 871-872.

The above quote would have never been uttered by the founders. However, I can very well imagine such a speech being made by conservative principals.

You pick. The America of Liberty, or some other America.

 

[JOHNYJ]

RE : Dezad # 28
Liberals think Religion should be kept on a shelf and used like Salt & Pepper only when needed.That it should be excluded from the public arena .That when necessary even history should be slanted if necessary. Unless its something bad about religion than mentioning that is o.k.
I love people who claim to have a religion yet act against its beliefs like members of the Senate.

 

[dragonslayer]

Its he militarism of the STAR SPANGLED BANNER that upsets liberals and leftists,but. As I have said befor the two songs most
mentioned in some circles to replace it.Have that word that scares liberls a lot,GOD. In fact if you watch some sporting events .You'd think GOD BLESS AMERICA was our national anthem .Well , proper patriotic behaviour was never something sporting events were known for.

I am a liberal of the 1st degree and if you touch the National Anthem,we will go to war.

Dam smart ass right wing idiots are just wanting to stir up trouble and blame it on liberals. this is just plain Bushshit (BS)

We should be proud of our heritage, our history, and our constitution. We need to protect our heritage, our history, and our constitution from the fascist right wings jerks who just want to cause trouble.

How come the right wingers hates our country so darn much. All they do is lie and lie. Listen you idiots, profits are not everything.

 

[mixedmedia]

The purported militarism you speak of scares very few liberals. Perhaps its because its not militarism, as I stated above. Just because something is about a battle doesn't mean its about militarism. :roll:

The Star Spangled Banner does mention god in its last stanza. Right where God belongs, an afterthought. LUV it. By the way, I seriously doubt James Madison, Thomas Jefferson or Thomas Paine would have allowed such a reference in our anthem: The History of Separation of Church and State.
All of whom believed in God, and Madison was a Christian.

Spin as you like.

God does not "scare" liberals. Most liberals believe in God, and I'd venture to say that liberals are far more comfortable with their God than most conservatives are their's. I submit as evidence for this the inexplicable insecurity conservatives typically exhibit when they encounter someone who doesn't believe in any God. By contrast, Liberal believers shrug their shoulders and say "live and let live". Conservatives seem to find it necessary to attempt to inject God into every governmental function they can; this, in order to reassure themselves that they're righteous by doing every thing they can to cow others into believing. Conservatives think that its ok to alienate non-believers in order to accomplish this, as if non-believers are somehow less American. I find the Liberal view comports with the great minds of our founders.

Liberals are confident that the wall of separation between church and state (a la Jefferson) remains timeless wisdom. They are conscious of all of the failed theocracies, and how they come into being. So were our founders.

Theocracies come into being when the people, reasonable believers and non-believers alike, fail to firmly stand against the wild forces of insecurity and fundamentalism. There were insecure fundamentalists around during the formation of the Constitution, and they were soundly repudiated, as they will be again. In spite of the objections of these fundies, the first amendment was accepted into the Constitution. It's happened several times in our 200 + year history that the religious attempt to destroy the spiritual, and they are always defeated. It is in a free society that the spiritual thrives.

Liberals are the defenders of liberty, and we are on the side of history. Look, its even the root word of LIBERal. No, Liberals are not afraid of God, and that is what bothers Conservatives.

"I have no objection to God, its his fan club I can't stand."

One failed religion dominated regime was Nazi Germany:



The above quote would have never been uttered by the founders. However, I can very well imagine such a speech being made by conservative principals.

You pick. The America of Liberty, or some other America.

Bee-yootiful. Just had to say it. Thanks so much for expressing so much so clearly and so well. And your signature quote is perfection.

And I guess while I'm here I'll chime in and say that it doesn't matter to me what our National Anthem is. I am a pacifist, but I'm more concerned about wars going on right now than ones that are in songs. I'm not much of one for censorship in music whether its rap, rock or national anthems.

 

[Dezaad]

RE : Dezad # 28
Liberals think Religion should be kept on a shelf and used like Salt & Pepper only when needed.That it should be excluded from the public arena .That when necessary even history should be slanted if necessary. Unless its something bad about religion than mentioning that is o.k.
I love people who claim to have a religion yet act against its beliefs like members of the Senate.

You see, everyone? Because Liberals believe you needn't cower before God, Conservatives get all bent out of shape.

Liberals have much more respect for the values of their God than Conservatives do. Conservatives are merely afraid of God, and obey accordingly, falling all over themselves to try and show how righteous they are. Liberals simply hold their God in esteem, love God, and conform to God accordingly. Conservatives interpret this as "used like Salt & Pepper".

No, Liberals don't believe God should be excluded from the public arena. Liberals are just confident that God doesn't need any help from government. They respect God that much... They are also certain that religion is FAR better off when government and religion stay separate, as is government.

 

[dragonslayer]

RE : Dezad # 28
Liberals think Religion should be kept on a shelf and used like Salt & Pepper only when needed.That it should be excluded from the public arena .That when necessary even history should be slanted if necessary. Unless its something bad about religion than mentioning that is o.k.
I love people who claim to have a religion yet act against its beliefs like members of the Senate.

Who are yu to decide what my beliefs are? Are you a christian? Another rightwing lie.

I am a christian and I have been a christian since I was a child, I go to a church that seems to meet at least some of my needs. Christians nowadays equate belonging to the correct church, as being a good Christian.

I am a liberal Democrat. I was a liberal democrat during the times in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s when Democrats were labeled the Christian Party.
Even though I was a registered Democrat and at other times during this period, I was registered republican. I always voted for who ever I wanted Republican and Democrat. I voted for Clinton, Reagan, Johnson, Kennedy, and Nixon.

George Bush and the Right wing people are not Republicans. They have usurped the name, and tried to steal and destroy the traditions of the Republican Party. Teddy Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln were true republicans. Bush and our new Fascist Republicans are a fraud.

I despise George Bush. I see him as anti American, and he is certainly the worse president of the united States in the history of the United States.
I love the troops and despise the war in Iraq, in which Americans are dying for no reason other than Greed. And yes it possible to believe in and support the troops and realize that the mission pure greed and bogus. They just follow orders. We should be fighting the war on Terrorism and rebuilding the gulf coast. The corporations that are not paying taxes now are investing this money in the pacific, and abandoning the united States. Bush and the stupid rightwing anti American, fake christians are destroying my country and I am starting to get angry.

I don't care if the Ten commandments are exhibited on court houses or not and if the Pledge of Allegiance says UNDER GOD, or not. It has nothing to do with my relationship to Jesus Christ.

 

[cnredd]

You see, everyone? Because Liberals believe you needn't cower before God, Conservatives get all bent out of shape.

Liberals have much more respect for the values of their God than Conservatives do. Conservatives are merely afraid of God, and obey accordingly, falling all over themselves to try and show how righteous they are. Liberals simply hold their God in esteem, love God, and conform to God accordingly. Conservatives interpret this as "used like Salt & Pepper".

No, Liberals don't believe God should be excluded from the public arena. Liberals are just confident that God doesn't need any help from government. They respect God that much... They are also certain that religion is FAR better off when government and religion stay separate, as is government.

This might be the post with the most broad-brush remarks and generalizations I've ever seen on this forum. I've heard of "speaking for others" before, but this one is just......wow...:roll:

 

[TJS0110]

Im a Christian, I hate H.A.T.E it when people force their veiws on others (religous or otherwise). I feel that all people have a right to believe what they want, I may not agree with you, but im not going to burn you at the stake. We all have free will.

 

[Dezaad]

This might be the post with the most broad-brush remarks and generalizations I've ever seen on this forum. I've heard of "speaking for others" before, but this one is just......wow...:roll:

Yes, I agree with you... it may surprise you to learn. Mission accomplished.

But, I am tired of right wing wackos doing it so often, and affecting so many people with such tactics, I thought I'd give them a taste of their own medicine. So, in a very loose sense, it IS satirical.
For instance, the one I was responding to:

Liberals think Religion should be kept on a shelf and used like Salt & Pepper only when needed.That it should be excluded from the public arena .That when necessary even history should be slanted if necessary. Unless its something bad about religion than mentioning that is o.k.
I love people who claim to have a religion yet act against its beliefs like members of the Senate.

Yes, yes, I realize that I run the risk of legitimizing such efforts. I actually hate this kind of thing. The thing I hate most is that it insults anyone who reads it, really. So, if you recognize it for what it is, consider yourself 'uninsulted'. If you didn't realize before I pointed out that JOHNYJ's was also rife with generalization, consider yourself re-insulted.

In any case, I still think mine can be used as a jumping off point for further, more considered, elaboration.

 

[The Truth-Bringer]

I am a liberal of the 1st degree and if you touch the National Anthem,we will go to war.

Dam smart ass right wing idiots are just wanting to stir up trouble and blame it on liberals. this is just plain Bushshit (BS)

We should be proud of our heritage, our history, and our constitution. We need to protect our heritage, our history, and our constitution from the fascist right wings jerks who just want to cause trouble.

How come the right wingers hates our country so darn much. All they do is lie and lie. Listen you idiots, profits are not everything.

Stupid Facists! Agreed. But From Recent News (Propoganda?) I have heard, I thought it was the Left Wingers that hate our Country =\.

 

[dragonslayer]

Stupid Facists! Agreed. But From Recent News (Propoganda?) I have heard, I thought it was the Left Wingers that hate our Country =\.

To believe Fox News, Rush, Lars, MSNbc, to believe lies and more lies. The men and others in the right wing are making great money to tell lies. That is their motivation, Greed motivates the Right Wing in America, not matter what else they try to make one think. They slander the left and destroy the constitution for greed. They promote Bush's War strictly for greed, They export American jobs to other countries for cheaper labor and greed. America is not just a bunch of real estate, it is an ideal, a promise from god, if you like. It is promise for the future which being eroded away by right wing greed and lies. It is A heritage that came to us after hundreds of years of terrible religious wars in Europe, and the wars for greed in Europe.

 

[Caine]

RE : Dezad # 28
Liberals think Religion should be kept on a shelf and used like Salt & Pepper only when needed.That it should be excluded from the public arena .That when necessary even history should be slanted if necessary. Unless its something bad about religion than mentioning that is o.k.
I love people who claim to have a religion yet act against its beliefs like members of the Senate.

What is it about religious conservatives that they just don't understand about the Seperation of Church and State?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
Which means, if the government changes our national anthem to one that includes GOD, then what are they doing? ..... .... .... It would seem to me that they would be respecting an establishment of religion wouldn't they?
Now, is your only comeback going to be one of witty comments like "Liberals hate God" or "Liberals hate America" in that case... don't even bother responding. As for those who argue that GOD could refer to any religious belief that you have... what about those who don't believe in a higher power? The clause states that Congress will not pass any law respective an ESTABLISHMENT of religion... Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Paganism, these are all establishments of religion, which all include thier own gods in some shape or form. Atheism has no god, and thus, God should not be mentioned anywhere in our government from the pledge to the anthem to commandments posted in our courts.

I honestly don't give a **** whether god is mentioned or not. BUT, you conservatives complain, whine, cry, and bash Democrats who are only trying to keep conservatives from casting aside the rights that were given to our country when it was founded in the first place. The "Liberals" are only trying to protect the constitution from being a "historical" document, and protect it as the Official document that is the basis of our system of government and way of life in America.

 

[JOHNYJ]

RE ;Caine # 39
The Original colonies eere founded by believers.They were founded so people could freely and " openly" practice their religion.
All the founders of the Republic were deists or believers in a christian church. The establishment clause refers to setting up a state religion only.
Secular hmanists have been winning the culture wars because christians haven't been willing to fight,now they are.More power to them.

 

[Caine]

RE ;Caine # 39
The Original colonies eere founded by believers.They were founded so people could freely and " openly" practice their religion.
All the founders of the Republic were deists or believers in a christian church. The establishment clause refers to setting up a state religion only.
Secular hmanists have been winning the culture wars because christians haven't been willing to fight,now they are.More power to them.

Then along with your new national anthem.... Make sure you throw out the phrase... Land of the Free......
Or, maybe you can put...
"Land of the Free.. As long as you believe in God"

 

[Australianlibertarian]

I think that the American National anthem is a terrific anthem. It is very uplifting, and puts the hairs on your neck on end. All good anthems do that. I also like the French National Anthem too.

Even though I am an atheist, I don't have a problem with anthem's containing religious overtones, because an anthem is ment to be a metaphore that reflects a country. Not literal. And besides I really don't care.

If you want a truely uplifting and truely moving hymn, I'd recommend 'I vow to thee, my country'. Even though the song was originially written in regards to Great Britain, the lyrics are a generic theme. I.e truely loving your country, and willing to make a selfless sacrifice for your nation.

"I vow to thee, my country, all earthly things above,
Entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love:
the love that asks no questions, the love that stands the test,
That lays upon the altar, the dearest and the best;
the love that never falters, the love that pays the price,
the love that makes undaunted the final sacrifice."

Everytime a hear that hymn it gives me goosebumps. Very moving song.

If only the Australian National Anthem was as inspiring as the 'Star Spangled Banner', or 'Le Marseillaise'. :-(