New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

[TacticalEvilDan]

Depends on your definition of harrass. But, given the most simplistic definition, I would find it horribly inappropriate to summon the police just because someone yelled at me.

I can see your point. My point is that there's a line in the sand that I think most reasonable people could generally agree upon in principle.

 

[rivrrat]

I can see your point. My point is that there's a line in the sand that I think most reasonable people could generally agree upon in principle.

I think at the point you feel physically threatened. But, that's JMHO. After all, yelling can be a precursor to violence.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

/facepalm



Exactly, I yell at my employees when they dont perform. One part of my pay is performance, if my people dont perform I dont get paid so yea, Im gonna get mean, ruthless and nasty because if I dont my boss will find someone who will. My motto is that if you dont like the heat get out of the fire, especially in a time where there are people who will do the work I ask.

Workplace Bullying: New York Bill Targets Abusive Bosses - TIME

I wonder if you can be sued for calling someone cat ****er?

Honestly, my workplace is not for professional dialog.
Add a bunch of nancy princesses and we'd probably have a dozen lawsuits by the end of the day.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I wonder if you can be sued for calling someone cat ****er?

Honestly, my workplace is not for professional dialog.
Add a bunch of nancy princesses and we'd probably have a dozen lawsuits by the end of the day.

First we must look at accuracy.
1. Does the person in question **** cats?

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

First we must look at accuracy.
1. Does the person in question **** cats?

It is an unknown but he has a questionable relationship with a cat.

 

[Slartibartfast]

It is an unknown but he has a questionable relationship with a cat.

Ok, so it is plausable.
2. Are you in a position of authority in regards to this person?

 

[modey3]

You're that much of a wuss? Jesus Christ, sometimes people don't do their job and you have to yell at them a bit. ****ing get over it. If you don't want to get yelled at, don't do a piss poor job; that's all there is to it. But sometimes it happens and just because it happens doesn't mean that people should get their damned underwear in a knot. I work in research facilities, and there's always yelling in some form. Equipment breaking or programs failing things like that. Also, so PIs will yell at their post-docs and grad students if they aren't putting in at least 14 hours per day 7 days a week.

Come on no graduate student in my department pulls those kinds of hours; especially for a whopping 25k per year!I would hate to work for your adviser.

There can be just yelling for the sake of yelling, and maybe people can work on that. But sometimes a worker gets chewed out when they mess up or under perform and that's that. You may call it unprofessional, but it's also unprofessional to not do your job and cost your employer money.

No kidding, but you must have never dealt with an adviser who was bipolar or you would be whistling a different tune. There was a particular case in my department where a bipolar PI drove all his students away either by quitting, firing, or even suicide. I had confirmation that he was bipolar by his former students. Bottom line is that the employer is not always right because there are such things as bad supervisors.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Ok, so it is plausable.
2. Are you in a position of authority in regards to this person?

Sort of, I am more awesome than he.
Realistically he's almost my superior.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Sort of, I am more awesome than he.
Realistically he's almost my superior.

You are probably ok, but wash your hands if you touch him.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

You are probably ok, but wash your hands if you touch him.

Where I work, it's pretty laid back and people have fun saying the meanest and nastiest things to each other.
Some of the Hispanic and Black guys throw racial slurs at each other for laughs.
No body gets butt hurt about it.

Introduce a "sensitive" person and that could change quickly.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

I think at the point you feel physically threatened. But, that's JMHO. After all, yelling can be a precursor to violence.

That's why it astounds me that anyone can adopt your position on this issue. I'm an adult and I can take criticism of my work performance like a professional. I don't need to be "babied" or "coddled" as chevydriver and Ikari seem to imply, but if someone gets too close to me and raises their voice, I think I'm being attacked and I respond in kind. There is no excuse for this behavior and I think it should be just as illegal in the workplace as it is in public spaces-- where it's deemed "disorderly conduct" and even "assault".

 

[Slartibartfast]

The way I see it is that its about intimidation. Noone should feel intimidated in the normal course of their day. Personally, I will probably be more responsive to calm criticism than I will to someone screaming at me, if only because the second guy pissed me off.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Where I work, it's pretty laid back and people have fun saying the meanest and nastiest things to each other.
Some of the Hispanic and Black guys throw racial slurs at each other for laughs.
No body gets butt hurt about it.

Introduce a "sensitive" person and that could change quickly.

Honestly, things have gone to far where "hostile work environment" is concerned. "Hostile work environment" suits should be reserved for cases in which the work environment is actually hostile.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Honestly, things have gone to far where "hostile work environment" is concerned. "Hostile work environment" suits should be reserved for cases in which the work environment is actually hostile.

Ohh I agree, if things were more balanced I might not be as opposed to something like this but we know that many people will take advantage of this as an easy score.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Honestly, things have gone to far where "hostile work environment" is concerned. "Hostile work environment" suits should be reserved for cases in which the work environment is actually hostile.

I agree, its like those lawsuits for a hostile environment because some chick didn't like a compliment or overhead a private conversation between two guys. Sometimes things go overboard even if the law does do a lot of good.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

That's why it astounds me that anyone can adopt your position on this issue. I'm an adult and I can take criticism of my work performance like a professional. I don't need to be "babied" or "coddled" as chevydriver and Ikari seem to imply, but if someone gets too close to me and raises their voice, I think I'm being attacked and I respond in kind. There is no excuse for this behavior and I think it should be just as illegal in the workplace as it is in public spaces-- where it's deemed "disorderly conduct" and even "assault".

That's my feeling exactly.

I don't yell at other people, even when I'm pissed, because I don't like how I act, how I feel, or how I cause others to act or feel when I yell. When someone yells at me, I feel competing impulses to yell back, leave, or tune them out.

The end result is that I've learned how to transmit the depth of my anger with someone without raising my voice or using coarse language, and I expect others to do the same.

 

[rivrrat]

That's why it astounds me that anyone can adopt your position on this issue. I'm an adult and I can take criticism of my work performance like a professional. I don't need to be "babied" or "coddled" as chevydriver and Ikari seem to imply, but if someone gets too close to me and raises their voice, I think I'm being attacked and I respond in kind. There is no excuse for this behavior and I think it should be just as illegal in the workplace as it is in public spaces-- where it's deemed "disorderly conduct" and even "assault".

There is a difference though. Hence why i said if you FEEL physically threatened. I've been yelled at where I certainly did not feel physically threatened in the slightest, and been yelled at when I did. In the workplace, it's highly unlikely I'd feel physically threatened.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

I agree, its like those lawsuits for a hostile environment because some chick didn't like a compliment or overhead a private conversation between two guys. Sometimes things go overboard even if the law does do a lot of good.

Heh, they made us a watch a video at work that said you could be sexually harassing someone and not know it (isn't the point of harassment to be purposeful :lol.
It also said that if you approached(asking out maybe?) someone of the other sex and they rejected it, that could also be sexual harassment.

Moronic ****.

 

[Ikari]

I'm going to have to side with the whole "yelling is stupid" crowd. That said, if the employees tolerate it, that's their choice.

I had a boss who was both physically and verbally intimidating and had a habit of yelling at us whenever he was displeased with the slightest thing. The effect it had wasn't to make us work harder or smarter, but rather to make sure he never found out about anything that was done 'wrong'. LOL It led to a lot of covering up of **** that probably shouldn't have been covered up. But he was very intimidating, and we usually just avoided interacting with him at all cost. And he continued to be that way until someone stood up to him. *ahem*

There's a professor here who is similar, in fact I work for her now. She's not physically intimidating at all since she's like 5'4"; but man get on her bad side and you're gonna hear about it for awhile. But it's her lab, her rules; so she gets what she wants. And those who have been successful in her lab understand that if you just do your job and do it well, you're fine. That's that. Sometimes it does suck, but it's also not the end of the world. Keep your nose to the grindstone and you're ok. I'm not so fragile as to completely fall apart if I get yelled at.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Heh, they made us a watch a video at work that said you could be sexually harassing someone and not know it (isn't the point of harassment to be purposeful :lol.
It also said that if you approached(asking out maybe?) someone of the other sex and they rejected it, that could also be sexual harassment.

Moronic ****.

Yeah, one of the things in this law should be that it should be proved that intimidation was purposeful, just like sexual harassment.

 

[Ikari]

Come on no graduate student in my department pulls those kinds of hours; especially for a whopping 25k per year!I would hate to work for your adviser.

Depends on the subject, physics it's like that. Chemistry a little less, but still similar. In physics it really is expected as a grad student (and post doc...which is why I don't like being a post doc) that you put in 12-14 hours a day 7 days a week.

No kidding, but you must have never dealt with an adviser who was bipolar or you would be whistling a different tune. There was a particular case in my department where a bipolar PI drove all his students away either by quitting, firing, or even suicide. I had confirmation that he was bipolar by his former students. Bottom line is that the employer is not always right because there are such things as bad supervisors.

That's my current boss. People have for sometime considered her to be rather bipolar. Sometimes she's great, sometimes she's pissy. And when she's pissy...watch out. Still it's not something that will destroy anyone. Just need to have some thicker skin is all.

 

[American]

You're that much of a wuss? Jesus Christ, sometimes people don't do their job and you have to yell at them a bit. ****ing get over it. If you don't want to get yelled at, don't do a piss poor job; that's all there is to it. But sometimes it happens and just because it happens doesn't mean that people should get their damned underwear in a knot. I work in research facilities, and there's always yelling in some form. Equipment breaking or programs failing things like that. Also, so PIs will yell at their post-docs and grad students if they aren't putting in at least 14 hours per day 7 days a week.

There can be just yelling for the sake of yelling, and maybe people can work on that. But sometimes a worker gets chewed out when they mess up or under perform and that's that. You may call it unprofessional, but it's also unprofessional to not do your job and cost your employer money.

I actually have a degree in management, and I can tell you that most (in fact a vast majority) managers are worthless and ignorant about people. They avoid personnel issues because they don't know how to handle them, and they put their efforts in all non-personnel management issues. Sure there are bad workers, but the percentage of bad managers is much higher. Management is the only professional career you don't have to be qualified for. Try getting an engineering job without an engineering degree, or an actual accounting job without a degree. Try becoming a physician without medical school or a license. But we have no problem leaving the most important decisions of any organization to unqualified buffoons. Many who got their position merely because they kissed someone's ass.

 

[MaggieD]

But we have no problem leaving the most important decisions of any organization to unqualified buffoons. Many who got their position merely because they kissed someone's ass.

Wish I could thank you twice. Great post!

 

[WhyteRash]

I actually have a degree in management, and I can tell you that most (in fact a vast majority) managers are worthless and ignorant about people. They avoid personnel issues because they don't know how to handle them, and they put their efforts in all non-personnel management issues. Sure there are bad workers, but the percentage of bad managers is much higher. Management is the only professional career you don't have to be qualified for. Try getting an engineering job without an engineering degree, or an actual accounting job without a degree. Try becoming a physician without medical school or a license. But we have no problem leaving the most important decisions of any organization to unqualified buffoons. Many who got their position merely because they kissed someone's ass.

agreed..

its amazing how much effort goes into avoiding confrontation by management personnel. they would rather a person walk around all day with a booger hanging out, or perhaps a **** stain, than to just go say something.
im positive that i have saved the company hours of mindless debate by management staff, by just telling the person they stink and should consider getting a different deodorant, or whatever is the topic of controversy.
it wouldve taken days before enough meetings occurred to warrant passing it off in cowardly fashion to the HR rep.

 

[Hatuey]

I've never had to yell at any of the people I've worked with or for. I think it is fine to have an argument with somebody. It's not okay to behave unprofessionally. I've seen both and have dealt with it accordingly. People have gotten fired, I've had talks about productivity etc. I've never needed to yell at anyone. Being an employer or somebody's superior doesn't make it professional or correct to yell at them at them.