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New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

Cold Highway

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That may be about to change. Workers' rights advocates have been campaigning for years to get states to enact laws against workplace bullying, and in May they scored their biggest victory. The New York state senate passed a bill that would let workers sue for physical, psychological or economic harm due to abusive treatment on the job. If New York's Healthy Workplace Bill becomes law, workers who can show that they were subjected to hostile conduct — including verbal abuse, threats or work sabotage — could be awarded lost wages, medical expenses, compensation for emotional distress and punitive damages.
/facepalm

Not surprisingly, many employers oppose the bill. They argue that it would lead to frivolous lawsuits and put them at risk for nothing more than running a tight ship and expecting a lot from their workers. But supporters of the law point out that it is crafted to cover only the most offensive and deliberate abuse. The bill requires that wrongful conduct be done with "malice," and in most cases that it has to be repeated. It also provides affirmative defenses for companies that investigate promptly and address the problem in good faith.
Exactly, I yell at my employees when they dont perform. One part of my pay is performance, if my people dont perform I dont get paid so yea, Im gonna get mean, ruthless and nasty because if I dont my boss will find someone who will. My motto is that if you dont like the heat get out of the fire, especially in a time where there are people who will do the work I ask.

Workplace Bullying: New York Bill Targets Abusive Bosses - TIME
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Act professionally and there will be no problem

Act like a 14 year old, and you could get sued
 

liblady

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/facepalm



Exactly, I yell at my employees when they dont perform. One part of my pay is performance, if my people dont perform I dont get paid so yea, Im gonna get mean, ruthless and nasty because if I dont my boss will find someone who will. My motto is that if you dont like the heat get out of the fire, especially in a time where there are people who will do the work I ask.

Workplace Bullying: New York Bill Targets Abusive Bosses - TIME
you YELL? wth? i would never continue working for a person who yelled. unprofessional.
 

Aunt Spiker

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/facepalm



Exactly, I yell at my employees when they dont perform. One part of my pay is performance, if my people dont perform I dont get paid so yea, Im gonna get mean, ruthless and nasty because if I dont my boss will find someone who will. My motto is that if you dont like the heat get out of the fire, especially in a time where there are people who will do the work I ask.

Workplace Bullying: New York Bill Targets Abusive Bosses - TIME
You're off the hook, then - you will no longer be forced to be a prick :) Your boss will be held accountable for the pressure. . . and YOU will have recourse when he lets off on you, too - win win

I support it - btu then again I was never a prat and still got my job done. My employees loved me.
 

MaggieD

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This legislation will require that managers actually know how to manage people. A company that 'throws someone into management' without setting standards and providing training is going to start as a result of this legislation. Yelling and screaming at employees is not the way to get them to do their jobs. Managing people is an artform. There are way too many hacks promoted into managerial positions who don't have a clue. No one should be yelled and screamed at in the workplace. I've seen managers go nose-to-nose with employees and humiliate them. This is management? Not a chance.
 
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Ikari

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you YELL? wth? i would never continue working for a person who yelled. unprofessional.
You're that much of a wuss? Jesus Christ, sometimes people don't do their job and you have to yell at them a bit. ****ing get over it. If you don't want to get yelled at, don't do a piss poor job; that's all there is to it. But sometimes it happens and just because it happens doesn't mean that people should get their damned underwear in a knot. I work in research facilities, and there's always yelling in some form. Equipment breaking or programs failing things like that. Also, so PIs will yell at their post-docs and grad students if they aren't putting in at least 14 hours per day 7 days a week.

There can be just yelling for the sake of yelling, and maybe people can work on that. But sometimes a worker gets chewed out when they mess up or under perform and that's that. You may call it unprofessional, but it's also unprofessional to not do your job and cost your employer money.
 

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@ Ikari -- I see lots of sensitivity training seminars in your future. Or the unemployment line . . .
 

Ikari

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@ Ikari -- I see lots of sensitivity training seminars in your future. Or the unemployment line . . .
Or working with people who have a spine. Scientific research isn't a cuddly, lovey dovey career. Hell not even that way in grad school. I remember when Alex was writing his dissertation and had to go over reviews of it with Patton (his adviser). Nothing but a string of curse words screaming from the inside of that office for like 15 minutes. It's not always like that, but it can get that way. To get your ideas across sometimes you have to fight. To make people work, sometimes you have to yell. There's nothing wrong with it if it's kept to a reasonable basis. All this zero tolerance crap is nothing but PC BS which prevents work from getting done and teaches others they don't have to do their work and if reprehended for not doing so, they can make up something to make it seem like someone else's fault. All this crap in the end results in nothing more than responsibility displacement.

So take that to your stupid ass thought re-education training. Stupid thought re-education camp, one of the best scams currently out there. Sometimes I'm amazed at the number of idiots out there.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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You're that much of a wuss? Jesus Christ, sometimes people don't do their job and you have to yell at them a bit. ****ing get over it. If you don't want to get yelled at, don't do a piss poor job; that's all there is to it. But sometimes it happens and just because it happens doesn't mean that people should get their damned underwear in a knot. I work in research facilities, and there's always yelling in some form. Equipment breaking or programs failing things like that. Also, so PIs will yell at their post-docs and grad students if they aren't putting in at least 14 hours per day 7 days a week.

There can be just yelling for the sake of yelling, and maybe people can work on that. But sometimes a worker gets chewed out when they mess up or under perform and that's that. You may call it unprofessional, but it's also unprofessional to not do your job and cost your employer money.
And one does not excuse the other

A manager should be professional, and not act like a 14 year having a tempertantrum. If a person is not doing their job, pull them off to the side have a polite discussion with them regarding the problem letting them know things have to improve or they may have to be let go. Document the problems with the persons performance, and if things dont improve fire them, the documentation will protect you from wrongfull dismissal suits (or union complaints)
 

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/facepalm



Exactly, I yell at my employees when they dont perform. One part of my pay is performance, if my people dont perform I dont get paid so yea, Im gonna get mean, ruthless and nasty because if I dont my boss will find someone who will. My motto is that if you dont like the heat get out of the fire, especially in a time where there are people who will do the work I ask.

Workplace Bullying: New York Bill Targets Abusive Bosses - TIME
If you have to yell at your employees, then you obviously aren't giving good enough direction nor are you being a leader with your motivation of them. Your pay or loss of it is your problem and gives you no right to be abusive, which includes raising your voice to another human being.

I supervise a group of 5 guys. I have never raised my voice to any of them, even the one that's a constant ****-up. I have fired people from my staff and I have landed one on my organization's probation policy. Never had to raise my voice once. You can be clear and direct with your expectation without acting like a goddamned child.

I have zero respect for abusive employers.
 

Ikari

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And one does not excuse the other

A manager should be professional, and not act like a 14 year having a tempertantrum. If a person is not doing their job, pull them off to the side have a polite discussion with them regarding the problem letting them know things have to improve or they may have to be let go. Document the problems with the persons performance, and if things dont improve fire them, the documentation will protect you from wrongfull dismissal suits (or union complaints)
It depends on whether or not you're in a position to fire someone. Not everything is that simple, especially in government positions, and it may become impossible to illicit the changes unless the person is abruptly told of their ineptness.
 

Ikari

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If you have to yell at your employees, then you obviously aren't giving good enough direction nor are you being a leader with your motivation of them. Your pay or loss of it is your problem and gives you no right to be abusive, which includes raising your voice to another human being.

I supervise a group of 5 guys. I have never raised my voice to any of them, even the one that's a constant ****-up. I have fired people from my staff and I have landed one on my organization's probation policy. Never had to raise my voice once. You can be clear and direct with your expectation without acting like a goddamned child.

I have zero respect for abusive employers.
I don't think these things are mutually exclusive. You may have a manager or someone who yells, but it doesn't necessarily make them abusive. I've never had one of those touchy feely jobs where harsh criticism is met with crying and lawsuits. Be it growing up on the farm, working for IDOT (worst summer job ever, BTW), the slaughter house, even grad school. Criticism is blunt, sharp, and unapologetic. If you can't do the job, you get yelled at. If you destroy a piece of expensive equipment due to negligence, you will get yelled at. There's only so many 150,000 dollar power supplies you can destroy through stupidity before it happens. You have to think, and if you don't think you may just get yelled at. That's just how it is, if you don't want to get yelled at here you have to use your brain. There are honest mistakes, and there are retarded **** ups. And for the latter, you can probably expect a little talking to.
 

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I don't think these things are mutually exclusive. You may have a manager or someone who yells, but it doesn't necessarily make them abusive. I've never had one of those touchy feely jobs where harsh criticism is met with crying and lawsuits. Be it growing up on the farm, working for IDOT (worst summer job ever, BTW), the slaughter house, even grad school. Criticism is blunt, sharp, and unapologetic. If you can't do the job, you get yelled at. If you destroy a piece of expensive equipment due to negligence, you will get yelled at. There's only so many 150,000 dollar power supplies you can destroy through stupidity before it happens. You have to think, and if you don't think you may just get yelled at. That's just how it is, if you don't want to get yelled at here you have to use your brain. There are honest mistakes, and there are retarded **** ups. And for the latter, you can probably expect a little talking to.
There is no reason for verbal abuse in the workplace. I'm not talking about a critical discussion. I'm not talking about someone saying, "What were you thinking? kinds of discussions. But there is absolutely no reason to verbally assault a worker. They have no power other than to quit their jobs. To put workers in that position is just plain wrong. People need their jobs. That's why women have put up with sexual harrassment on the job for years. What choice did they have? Managers need to be accountable just like everyone else. Write 'em up. I support the legislation.
 

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I don't think these things are mutually exclusive. You may have a manager or someone who yells, but it doesn't necessarily make them abusive. I've never had one of those touchy feely jobs where harsh criticism is met with crying and lawsuits. Be it growing up on the farm, working for IDOT (worst summer job ever, BTW), the slaughter house, even grad school. Criticism is blunt, sharp, and unapologetic. If you can't do the job, you get yelled at. If you destroy a piece of expensive equipment due to negligence, you will get yelled at. There's only so many 150,000 dollar power supplies you can destroy through stupidity before it happens. You have to think, and if you don't think you may just get yelled at. That's just how it is, if you don't want to get yelled at here you have to use your brain. There are honest mistakes, and there are retarded **** ups. And for the latter, you can probably expect a little talking to.
If I think I am on the verge of yelling at someone, I go to my office and close the door until such time as I can control the volume of my voice again. Trust me, I get there frequently as my patience for stupidity is about non-existent. The general rule my guys work by is "don't **** up and if you do, fix it before Joey finds out about it". And I don't have to yell to get that point across.

I just think so much gets lost when you raise your voice. No matter how legitimate your gripe is, when you yell and act foolish, throwing an immature temper tantrum, especially if there's name calling involved, you end up having your message lost when the person walks away with the thoughts, "Man, he is a dick" rather than, "this is what he expects of me from now on".
 

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It's not the verbal abuse issue that is important in this discussion. It's the attempt of government to take an enforcement stance on the personal behaviors and attitudes of individuals, and I have a problem with that intrusion.
If you work in a company that has verbally abusive management, you have a choice to find other employment or work for change within the organization. This legislation, in effect, dictates the personal interractions within private companies. More PC BS.
 

jallman

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It's not the verbal abuse issue that is important in this discussion. It's the attempt of government to take an enforcement stance on the personal behaviors and attitudes of individuals, and I have a problem with that intrusion.
If you work in a company that has verbally abusive management, you have a choice to find other employment or work for change within the organization. This legislation, in effect, dictates the personal interractions within private companies. More PC BS.
When you solicit the public to come and work for you, you take on a responsibility for your actions and dealings with those whom you employee. Nothing about property rights or free expression or the open market gives you the right or freedom to entice someone into your sphere of influence with promise of monetary reward only to treat them poorly and in less than a dignified manner. This includes work conditions, terms of payment and your interpersonal engagements with them. The government has an interest in protecting its citizens from abusive practices being legitimized just because an employer bought a person's time. Otherwise, we may as well go back to sharecropping and child labor in factories.
 

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When you solicit the public to come and work for you, you take on a responsibility for your actions and dealings with those whom you employee. Nothing about property rights or free expression or the open market gives you the right or freedom to entice someone into your sphere of influence with promise of monetary reward only to treat them poorly and in less than a dignified manner.
Yes, you do take on the responsibility for your actions, and if you deal with employees poorly and abuse them, they have every right to seek employment elsewhere. A work environment that is abusive will end up with a very limited pool of employees and will likely not be very successful.
The government has an interest in protecting its citizens from abusive practices being legitimized just because an employer bought a person's time. Otherwise, we may as well go back to sharecropping and child labor in factories.
My view is that the individual has an interest in protecting himself from abusive practices by refusal to work for abusive employers. Abuse in the workplace is self-limiting. I have worked in several management positions. I have never had the need to yell at anyone, but I have had to fire several people for incompetence and poor job performance. To me, this legislation is nothing more than more government intrusiveness into personal behaviors and attitudes.
 

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It's not the verbal abuse issue that is important in this discussion. It's the attempt of government to take an enforcement stance on the personal behaviors and attitudes of individuals, and I have a problem with that intrusion.
If you work in a company that has verbally abusive management, you have a choice to find other employment or work for change within the organization. This legislation, in effect, dictates the personal interractions within private companies. More PC BS.
That's what they used to say about racial discrimination, sexual harrassment, and sexual inequality in the workplace. Glad we're not back there.
 

rivrrat

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That's what they used to say about racial discrimination, sexual harrassment, and sexual inequality in the workplace. Glad we're not back there.
Yeah, it's so much better now that everyone is afraid to speak to one another and afraid to actually be personable for fear of being sued for some assinine sexual harrassment charge or called a "racist" because they made joke. :roll:

I'd like it better if people were able to act without living in constant fear of being sued. And, I'd prefer that if people didn't like the way they were treated at a job then they *gasp* actually took it upon themselves to either change the situation or leave the job. Instead of relying on the courts to make people behave the way THEY want them to so their little feelings don't get hurt.

If you don't like your job, leave. Your happiness is your own responsibility. If you tolerate bad treatment, that is YOUR fault.
 

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Yes, you do take on the responsibility for your actions, and if you deal with employees poorly and abuse them, they have every right to seek employment elsewhere. A work environment that is abusive will end up with a very limited pool of employees and will likely not be very successful.

My view is that the individual has an interest in protecting himself from abusive practices by refusal to work for abusive employers. Abuse in the workplace is self-limiting. I have worked in several management positions. I have never had the need to yell at anyone, but I have had to fire several people for incompetence and poor job performance. To me, this legislation is nothing more than more government intrusiveness into personal behaviors and attitudes.
I think your stance, with its lofty notions of how the individual has so much power of self determination, fails to take into account the power of the dollar and the influence dependence on that paycheck can have for some people. The widowed mother of three will subject herself to the abuses of a foul, insulting, and verbally abusive employer because to walk out might mean her children don't get fed for a week while she seeks public assistance. Even if she must bear the brunt of his or her abuses while finding a way out, she is left bereft of her dignity and self respect, leaving her in no position to instill in her children those qualities that make them strong and productive citizens later. The domino effect down the generations as they grow up, weak and tolerant of abuses because of the example set by society for them when they were young, ripples destructively through society with much more lasting effect than someone stepping in and putting a stop to the douche who thought his signing a paycheck for a woman needing the pay left him with the right to treat her less than human.

That's but one example. There are countless others I see around me in the cess pool of a city I live in nearly every day. One only has to open their eyes and look on the savagery of our species, the constant clawing and grabbing for power the human race constantly indulges, and you can see that without some entity to set limits, the paycheck is just another shackle in the hands of too many employers. Our society is based on personal liberty and freedom. The Constitution limits what the government can do to impose upon the individual but it does not limit what can be done to an entity like a business in the pursuit of ensuring that the liberty and freedom of employees is not stripped by an employer in the absence of a government to do the same.
 

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Yeah, it's so much better now that everyone is afraid to speak to one another and afraid to actually be personable for fear of being sued for some assinine sexual harrassment charge or called a "racist" because they made joke. :roll:

I'd like it better if people were able to act without living in constant fear of being sued. And, I'd prefer that if people didn't like the way they were treated at a job then they *gasp* actually took it upon themselves to either change the situation or leave the job. Instead of relying on the courts to make people behave the way THEY want them to so their little feelings don't get hurt.

If you don't like your job, leave. Your happiness is your own responsibility. If you tolerate bad treatment, that is YOUR fault.

You're obviously someone who has benefitted by those changes in the workplace and never had to live with them. A mom with two kids to feed who's being grab-assed by her boss is going to put up with quite a LOT before she hits the streets. A guy who has a job with city government in an area where there are few jobs is going to put up with sexual harrassment by his superior because he can't find a new one that pays anywhere near as well....and that's even with the laws in place.

It's easy to be righteous when you don't have a dog in the fight. That dog can be YOU or someone you love. Harrassment in the workplace should not be tolerated by management. With this legislation in place, not much of it will be.
 

rivrrat

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You're obviously someone who has benefitted by those changes in the workplace and never had to live with them.
Incorrect.

A mom with two kids to feed who's being grab-assed by her boss is going to put up with quite a LOT before she hits the streets.
And that is HER choice.

A guy who has a job with city government in an area where there are few jobs is going to put up with sexual harrassment by his superior because he can't find a new one that pays anywhere near as well....and that's even with the laws in place.
And that is HIS choice.

It's easy to be righteous when you don't have a dog in the fight. That dog can be YOU or someone you love. Harrassment in the workplace should not be tolerated by management. With this legislation in place, not much of it will be.
No, it should not be tolerated by management. The government need not be involved.
 
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