New Hampshire family to defy school tax

[Kelzie]

Um, I wasn't born yesterday. I know what freedom is. You don't. And the subject was school taxes, not growing my own food. I never said I didn't believe in government.

I believe in government by We the People, not You the Oppressor. Your kind is the kind I blame for the current state of affairs. To put it bluntly, you shouldn't be allowed to vote, unless you have the common sense to realize that you don't speak for me, but only yourself. You have no right to extort from me just so you or anyone else can have an education.

And while we're at it, roads are paid for by taxes on gasoline. They're called use taxes. I can't use the kind of education you have, 'cause it don't make no sense...

I don't even know what to do with this.

1. I do not (yet anyway :2razz: ) rule the US. Therefore, it would be hard for me to oppress anyone.
2. I'm sorry, by "my kind", you mean what? Socialists, people, the rest of America who believes that public education is a good thing?
3. I shouldn't be allowed to vote because I think I'm speaking for you. Riigghht. :roll:
4. What if you don't use the fire department? Do I have a right to extort you then? I really hope you are the product of home schooling.
5. Roads are paid for by more than just the gasoline tax.
6. If my kind of education makes no sense, maybe you should have gone to a public school, and learned some logic

 

[Imudman]

Every topic is a religious topic . . .only the secualr humanist don't want it to be . . .

No, I disagree. We don't live in a Christian nation, so political topics tend to be secular. And just because someone recognizes the fact we live in a secular nation, it doesn't mean he's a God-hater...

 

[RightinNYC]

No, I disagree. We don't live in a Christian nation, so political topics tend to be secular. And just because someone recognizes the fact we live in a secular nation, it doesn't mean he's a God-hater...

To a person like shamgar, everything means someone's a godhater...

 

[Imudman]

I don't even know what to do with this.

1. I do not (yet anyway :2razz: ) rule the US. Therefore, it would be hard for me to oppress anyone.
2. I'm sorry, by "my kind", you mean what? Socialists, people, the rest of America who believes that public education is a good thing?
3. I shouldn't be allowed to vote because I think I'm speaking for you. Riigghht. :roll:
4. What if you don't use the fire department? Do I have a right to extort you then? I really hope you are the product of home schooling.
5. Roads are paid for by more than just the gasoline tax.
6. If my kind of education makes no sense, maybe you should have gone to a public school, and learned some logic

Here's some logic: Socialism is opposed to freedom. You are a self-avowed socialist, therefore, you are opposed to freedom.

To me, this means if you vote with the idea of taking money from my wallet for your education, all the while trying to convince me that is a good thing, then you are oppressing me. That makes you an oppressor and a con-artist. Duh...

 

[Kelzie]

Here's some logic: Socialism is opposed to freedom. You are a self-avowed socialist, therefore, you are opposed to freedom.

To me, this means if you vote with the idea of taking money from my wallet for your education, all the while trying to convince me that is a good thing, then you are oppressing me. That makes you an oppressor and a con-artist. Duh...

Now see, to really have a logical debate, you need some things. Like knowledge for one. For instance, if you knew anything about socialism, that might help. For one thing there are many types of socialism. However, the model that I (and the majority of other socialists) follow is the one that most countries in Europe follow. Now they have freedom. They have elections and everything. AND, if they don't like someone, they vote for someone else. Just like in America! Imagine that. Of course, since you are so educated on socialism, I'm sure you are aware that the top 7 countries in the world, as determined by the HDI, are socialists (no the US is number 8).

However, you sir, are in the minority. So that means that we do get to keep taking your money to pay for education. Either deal with it, or move to the mountains.

 

[Shamgar]

You are a fool. Just because Lenin took an idea and used it does not mean that every idea he touched was bad. Lenin also believed that food should taste good. Does that mean that food that tastes good is antichristian?

I have no doubt you revel in many antichristian teachings . . . oh yeah you do since you are pro homosexual, pro feminisit and pro antichrist . . . .

Matt 5: 22 But *I* say unto you, that every one that is lightly angry with his brother shall be subject to the judgment; but whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be subject to be called before the sanhedrim; but whosoever shall say, Fool, shall be subject to the penalty of the hell of fire.

...which according to you is everyone. I can't POSSIBLY think of a reason why everyone would think you're incoherent...

Only a few are entering the kingdom of heaven so the "many" don't listen . . . . ah you would have to read/understand the Scriptures to know that . . . .

So you would prefer to live in a Christian theocracy that had the same rules as Islam, except substituting Jesus for Mohammed?

Boy that explains many of your problems. . . . Islam doesn't have the same rules as Christianity . . . . hahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Imudman]

Kelzie, there's only one kind of freedom, and it ain't socialism. As usual you anti-freedom socialist oppressor types cannot stand to hear my free speech. Don't worry, I'm dealing with the fact that you and a lot of other socialists are robbing me and my family every day. You should bear in mind that one day the shoe might be on the other foot, hopefully in your lifetime...

 

[Imudman]

Let's think about it this way:
There is merit in the belief that one shouldn't have to pay for school that one cannot directly benefit from. I can see how it would be angering to pay taxes to schools when you don't have kids, it's similar to how I'm paying tons of money to social security that I'm probably never gonna see.
But then, let's look at this from a strictly capitalist view point. Is this the best thing to do with your money. Well, the ability to make money is very closely related to one's education, and crime is connected to poverty, and thus it is in your best interest, and society's best interest to get these kids educated.
Keep in mind that typically doing something that's good for everyone is also good for you, and doing things strictly out of greed that hurt everyone typically hurt you too.
So I can understand opposition to school taxes, but what is better, giving them that cash, or having some uneducated kid steal it from you later?

It is better to let people keep their money, instead of robbing them in the name of some nebulous concept of common good. Really, if Lenin were to come back from the dead and read the posts in this thread he'd be proud, very proud indeed. Socialism is alive and well in the free USA...

 

[Shamgar]

Socialism is alive and well in the free USA...

And you VOLUTARILY fund it each and every year, like a good socialist. . . . .who is the hypocrite? . . . at least Kelzie is practicing what she is preaching . . .

 

[Kelzie]

And you VOLUTARILY fund it each and every year, like a good socialist. . . . .who is the hypocrite? . . . at least Kelzie is practicing what she is preaching . . .

Aww thanks Shamgar. I think that's the nicest thing you've said to anyone here. :mrgreen:

 

[Imudman]

I wouldn't go that far. We are a society, and we pay taxes so that the government can do things that benefit our society. It is undeniable that public education benefits society as a whole. Some actions of the government, as far as their benefit to society as a whole, are suspect, but public education is not.
If you don't use the benefits, then you do not need to participate, but it's not a pick and choose sort of thing. People who don't drive still pay taxes that are used to fix the roads. People who don't read pay taxes that go to libraries. People who will never in their life have their house burn down still pay taxes that support a fire department. If you use any of the benefits, you are part of the club and have to pay your dues.

Look, I appreciate your tone of reasonableness, but I disagree that it's not a "pick and choose sort of thing". It's supposed to be a pick and choose sort of thing. Just because you accurately state the way things are at the moment, it doesn't mean you're stating the way things ought to be. Unless you, like Kelzie, are under the mistaken belief that slavery is freedom.

You can't be free when someone is picking your pocket...

 

[Kelzie]

Look, I appreciate your tone of reasonableness, but I disagree that it's not a "pick and choose sort of thing". It's supposed to be a pick and choose sort of thing. Just because you accurately state the way things are at the moment, it doesn't mean you're stating the way things ought to be. Unless you, like Kelzie, are under the mistaken belief that slavery is freedom.

You can't be free when someone is picking your pocket...

You know, I don't appreciate you trying to tell others what I believe. I choose to pay my taxes, knowing that it goes to support things that I don't necessarily need. It is not slavery, it is a voluntary choice. If I didn't like it, I would live somewhere else. Although it would be hard to find a place without taxes.

 

[Imudman]

And you VOLUTARILY fund it each and every year, like a good socialist. . . . .who is the hypocrite? . . . at least Kelzie is practicing what she is preaching . . .

Um, I'm not under the illusion that the vigorish deducted from my income is voluntary. You should be very careful when calling people names like hypocrite. Things like that can come back and bite you in the a**...

 

[Imudman]

You know, I don't appreciate you trying to tell others what I believe. I choose to pay my taxes, knowing that it goes to support things that I don't necessarily need. It is not slavery, it is a voluntary choice. If I didn't like it, I would live somewhere else. Although it would be hard to find a place without taxes.

You expect me to respect your feelings after you told me to deal with the fact you want to rob me? Yeah, right....

 

[Kelzie]

You expect me to respect your feelings after you told me to deal with the fact you want to rob me? Yeah, right....

You are somehow suffering from the illusion that I have any amount of say in how the country is run. It's a common problem people have, don't feel bad. :lol: I don't want to rob you. But people have to pay for the benefits of living in a society. If all people struck out on their own, life would be much more difficult. That's why societies and government was formed. They promote the common good. And the human race is much more successful living in a society that promotes the common good. If you felt you didn't need fire stations, and you had an option, I'm guessing you wouldn't pay for it. So would a lot of other people who feel it's never happened to them, so why do they need it. Now all of a sudden, we have no firemen, because the few people who can see they are necessary can't support it. Same thing with child eduction. If everyone without a kid, or who had one that was too old or young to go to school, didn't pay for education, nobody could afford to send their kids to school. We would have a bunch of uneducated kids running around. Is that what you want? We created a society because we've been there before, and paying for stuff you don't always use is the better option.

 

[Imudman]

Ignore Shamgar, he's ****ing out of his mind and just goes around insulting people to get a reaction.

So do you believe in a system with no recognition of actions for the common good? Do you believe in such a thing as the common good? (These are honest questions, not attacking)

I believe in the dignity of man. Like Jefferson said, we're all created equal with certain unalienable rights, like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. A government that protects these rights is promoting the general welfare. A governent that abrogates these rights is attacking each and every one of us.

 

[Imudman]

You are somehow suffering from the illusion that I have any amount of say in how the country is run. It's a common problem people have, don't feel bad. :lol: I don't want to rob you. But people have to pay for the benefits of living in a society. If all people struck out on their own, life would be much more difficult. That's why societies and government was formed. They promote the common good. And the human race is much more successful living in a society that promotes the common good. If you felt you didn't need fire stations, and you had an option, I'm guessing you wouldn't pay for it. So would a lot of other people who feel it's never happened to them, so why do they need it. Now all of a sudden, we have no firemen, because the few people who can see they are necessary can't support it. Same thing with child eduction. If everyone without a kid, or who had one that was too old or young to go to school, didn't pay for education, nobody could afford to send their kids to school. We would have a bunch of uneducated kids running around. Is that what you want? We created a society because we've been there before, and paying for stuff you don't always use is the better option.

See? It's Chicken Little squawking the sky will fall unless we have more government, less choice. Bah! Tell it to your congressman, I'm sure he'll go along with you...

 

[Kelzie]

See? It's Chicken Little squawking the sky will fall unless we have more government, less choice. Bah! Tell it to your congressman, I'm sure he'll go along with you...

Where was I arguing for more government? And seeing as we already have tax dollar funded public education in this country, I really feel no need to go talk to my Congressman about it. You're the odd ball out here. Maybe you should talk to your Congressman about "opt-out taxes". See how well he receives it.

 

[Imudman]

Where was I arguing for more government? And seeing as we already have tax dollar funded public education in this country, I really feel no need to go talk to my Congressman about it. You're the odd ball out here. Maybe you should talk to your Congressman about "opt-out taxes". See how well he receives it.

Your entire thought process' are devoted to more government, that's what makes you a socialist. And of course you don't feel the need to talk to your congressman, because you're already getting your way. I'd talk to mine, but he's an idiot. And if I'm an odd ball in my way of thinking, so was Jefferson. But now I have to go so I can earn some money to support you and a bunch of other would-be dictators...

 

[Shamgar]

You are somehow suffering from the illusion that I have any amount of say in how the country is run.

Comrade . . . .haven't you heard the catchphrase . . . ."You Can Make A Difference!"

Um, I'm not under the illusion that the vigorish deducted from my income is voluntary. You should be very careful when calling people names like hypocrite. Things like that can come back and bite you in the a**...

Oh comrade you send in the paperwork VOLUNTARLY . . . Unless a special agent comes to your door to pick it up . . . . you VOLUNTARLY fill out the forms . . . . VOLUNTARLY put it into an envelope . . . . VOLUNTARLY put a stamp on it . . . . and VOLUNTARLY put it in the mailbox . . . that would make you a hypocrite . . .some who complains about a problem but VOLUNTARLY goes along with the problem . . .

 

[Imudman]

Comrade . . . .haven't you heard the catchphrase . . . ."You Can Make A Difference!"





Oh comrade you send in the paperwork VOLUNTARLY . . . Unless a special agent comes to your door to pick it up . . . . you VOLUNTARLY fill out the forms . . . . VOLUNTARLY put it into an envelope . . . . VOLUNTARLY put a stamp on it . . . . and VOLUNTARLY put it in the mailbox . . . that would make you a hypocrite . . .some who complains about a problem but VOLUNTARLY goes along with the problem . . .

By your way of thinking, if a bus leaves the road and is barreling toward you in your house, and you don't want to move, it's hypocritical to jump out of the way. Get a grip...

 

[Imudman]

So what you're talking about it not a society, it's a bunch of people who don't work together on anything, am I right?

I'm talking about a bunch of people who may or may not choose to work together on something. If they do choose to work together, it should be voluntary. If they don't, they should be free to choose that too. Why do you have a problem with people choosing one way or another? Why do you have to endorse forcing people to do things? What's wrong with freedom of choice?

 

[Imudman]

Hey, first, I am MORE than paying my way.
And I understand your logic, I was once a member of the libertarian party.

It's just since we have many things for public use, it would make sense that they are publicly funded, and even if you choose not to use them, you have the ability to use them, or you have the ability to go elsewhere with only the services that you choose to use.

And I hate the government.

Well, I don't hate the government, but I do hate what certain people do in using it to force their agenda on me. See, that's what this discussion is really about, to find out where the line is drawn when it comes to private affairs. Does the government have the authority to force me to pay for someone else's education? Your education is not for my public use - it's for your private use.

The line keeps getting drawn and re-drawn farther to the left every year. What was once private property is now subject to the public use. I just vehemently disagree with the socialist ideal that it's okay to pilfer from one person in order to give to another. It's not right, no matter how you spin it...

 

[Shamgar]

By your way of thinking, if a bus leaves the road and is barreling toward you in your house, and you don't want to move, it's hypocritical to jump out of the way. Get a grip...

Oh you forgot this part where you VOLUNTARILY grovel under socialism . . . . . . it appears your comparision to Jefferson is a poor one, since even thoough he was evil through and through, at least he did something . . . . oh I guess groveling is doing "something" . . . .sorry . . . . keep up the good work . . . . .

Oh comrade you send in the paperwork VOLUNTARLY . . . Unless a special agent comes to your door to pick it up . . . . you VOLUNTARLY fill out the forms . . . . VOLUNTARLY put it into an envelope . . . . VOLUNTARLY put a stamp on it . . . . and VOLUNTARLY put it in the mailbox . . . that would make you a hypocrite . . .some who complains about a problem but VOLUNTARLY goes along with the problem . . .

 

[Imudman]

Oh you forgot this part where you VOLUNTARILY grovel under socialism . . . . . . it appears your comparision to Jefferson is a poor one, since even thoough he was evil through and through, at least he did something . . . . oh I guess groveling is doing "something" . . . .sorry . . . . keep up the good work . . . . .

Oh comrade you send in the paperwork VOLUNTARLY . . . Unless a special agent comes to your door to pick it up . . . . you VOLUNTARLY fill out the forms . . . . VOLUNTARLY put it into an envelope . . . . VOLUNTARLY put a stamp on it . . . . and VOLUNTARLY put it in the mailbox . . . that would make you a hypocrite . . .some who complains about a problem but VOLUNTARLY goes along with the problem . . .

Oh c'mon, you can do better than that. Groveling? Yeah, I suppose you could call it that. But I'm not in jail. Unlike you, I have people depending on me being a good citizen. You're just out to prove you're holier than anyone else, like the pharisees were...