'New Antisemitism' is Thought Control

[dimensionallava]

As a hint: opposition is one thing, combating the keeping of the existing state (as in dissolving it or wishing to) quite another.

and many left wing ideologies like anarchism and communism even some forms of liberalism, believe all states should be dissolved, especially when theyre designed to favor a specific race or religion like Israel is. By saying you believe the jews should have heir own state, you first have to say that all the different groups of people in the world, all deserve to carve out their "own patch of land" where they can be the rulers, and that the world should be divided and segregated by race and/or religion. But this also means that groups of people who dont have their own patch of land are inferior in some way. So by saying you beleive the world should be divided and segregated in that way but, the jews dont get their own patch of land because they are inferior for whatever reason, I would say that would be considered right wing antisemtsm, but what about left wing ideologies who don't beleive in nationalism at all? Are they antisemitic too you by default?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

To: Captain Courtesy...

I am not quibbling with your actions of "warning" me, because you run the show and it is your right to do so.

But I need to ask ....

How is it possible to discuss Anti-Semitism in the "present time of world events" without discussing Palestinian issues or views concerning Israel?

Are we only allowed to discuss Anti-Semitism in an historical sense up until 1945 and the end of WWII? The thread was about the "New" Anti-Semitism or after WWII.

Can you or others viewing this thread sort of explain or give me examples of how this can be done?

I ask this question because I am attempting to remain on topic and within the rules.

Calm

You can discuss it in the context of anti-semitism, but discussing anti-Palestinianism is a completely separate topic.

And please do NOT quote Mod Boxes. If you have questions about Moderator actions, PM a Mod.

 

[Chagos]

and many left wing ideologies like anarchism and communism even some forms of liberalism, believe all states should be dissolved, especially when theyre designed to favor a specific race or religion like Israel is. By saying you believe the jews should have heir own state, you first have to say that all the different groups of people in the world, all deserve to carve out their "own patch of land" where they can be the rulers, and that the world should be divided and segregated by race and/or religion. But this also means that groups of people who dont have their own patch of land are inferior in some way. So by saying you beleive the world should be divided and segregated in that way but, the jews dont get their own patch of land because they are inferior for whatever reason, I would say that would be considered right wing antisemtsm, but what about left wing ideologies who don't beleive in nationalism at all? Are they antisemitic too you by default?

Frankly, I don't understand a word of it.

If any of the above is supposed to be addressing what I said, it's sure doing it in the most garbled of manners.

 

[Wiggen]

from your source



I dont think there's anything new about people who criticize Israel being falsely deemed antisemitic, and the concept might have been considered new in the 1960's when israel was first founded (through a pretty bloody war), but there are many who criticize even the concept of nationalism, so if one person says that there needs to be a home for the jewish people and them alone, and another person doesn't believe the world should be divided by race or religion that way, that doesn't mean he is antisemitic

plenty of rabbis are antizionist

Israel was founded in the 1960's? Really? Try looking in a history book. You'll find it was founded in 1948, whereupon it's neighbors immediately declared war and invaded. Fortunately they lost.

 

[Wiggen]

which date do you use? 1948? 1949? 1100 BCE? I consider their founding to be the day after 6 day war, before that they were still basically a british colony. Just like Canada wasn't "really" independent until 1982, or South africa until 1997

With all due respect, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground on this subject. A British colony? Jesus - have you ever read a history book?

 

[dimensionallava]

Frankly, I don't understand a word of it.

If any of the above is supposed to be addressing what I said, it's sure doing it in the most garbled of manners.

nevermind, I forget alot of people dont have much of an opinion about the subject past "hurr durr moozlims bad"

.....no matter how many big words they use :roll:

 

[Chagos]

nevermind, I forget alot of people dont have much of an opinion about the subject past ...................."hurr durr moozlims bad" ............................

where that ain't mine, still no idea what this has to do with anti-semitism as approached in the OP.

 

[Dibbler]

Holy men !


:lamo

 

[Fledermaus]

nevermind, I forget alot of people dont have much of an opinion about the subject past "hurr durr moozlims bad"

.....no matter how many big words they use :roll:

'New Antisemitism' is the same brown shirt with nicer trim.

 

[Dibbler]

 

[L0neW0lf]

'New antisemtism' or just 'antisemitism' as many of its proponents would claim it supposedly is, is the result of a half a century long campaign of deliberate Zionification of Jewish history. Whereas Zionism was a fringe political movement that had trouble organizing due to large scale Jewish opposition in the past, you will be hard pressed to find any major Jewish organization that is anti-Zionist today. Naturally, most effort to blur the lines between "Jew" and "Zionist" happened in Palestine, but this soon spread everywhere else.

You can see this even on issues like the Holocaust, where recognition of the Holocaust supposedly carries with it automatic recognition of the supposed right to Zionism. While opposition to Zionism in pre-1948 Palestine or post 1967 Palestine is often portrayed as being a form of Nazism.


This however is ultimately futile, it is patently disingenuous, yet it is dangerous and has ironically led to actual antisemitism.

I can think of at least 5 million legitimate reasons for any moral person to be opposed to Zionism and the continued existence of Israel. I am referring to the number of Palestinian refugees of course, whose immoral and criminal displacement is, according to Zionists, a necessary component for the fulfillment and continued prosperity of the supposed "Jewish right" to statehood in Palestine.

One can oppose Zionism, for its colonial settler nature, one can oppose it for it's discriminatory ethnic national component. One can oppose Zionism while supporting the creation of a Jewish state. etc, the claim that anti-Zionism is equivalent to antisemitism is false.

 

[rocket88]

It's standard leftist tactics (e.g. insinuating bad motives, deeming any criticism of a designated victim group forbidden) applied to the original wedge minority.

I see it often from the right around here. Question Israel's actions and the charges of "the antisemitic left" start flying.

 

[Paleocon]

I see it often from the right around here. Question Israel's actions and the charges of "the antisemitic left" start flying.

Which shows how utterly worthless the mainstream "right" is.

 

[Dibbler]

'New antisemtism' or just 'antisemitism' as many of its proponents would claim it supposedly is, is the result of a half a century long campaign of deliberate Zionification of Jewish history. Whereas Zionism was a fringe political movement that had trouble organizing due to large scale Jewish opposition in the past, you will be hard pressed to find any major Jewish organization that is anti-Zionist today. Naturally, most effort to blur the lines between "Jew" and "Zionist" happened in Palestine, but this soon spread everywhere else.

You can see this even on issues like the Holocaust, where recognition of the Holocaust supposedly carries with it automatic recognition of the supposed right to Zionism. While opposition to Zionism in pre-1948 Palestine or post 1967 Palestine is often portrayed as being a form of Nazism.


This however is ultimately futile, it is patently disingenuous, yet it is dangerous and has ironically led to actual antisemitism.

I can think of at least 5 million legitimate reasons for any moral person to be opposed to Zionism and the continued existence of Israel. I am referring to the number of Palestinian refugees of course, whose immoral and criminal displacement is, according to Zionists, a necessary component for the fulfillment and continued prosperity of the supposed "Jewish right" to statehood in Palestine.

One can oppose Zionism, for its colonial settler nature, one can oppose it for it's discriminatory ethnic national component. One can oppose Zionism while supporting the creation of a Jewish state. etc, the claim that anti-Zionism is equivalent to antisemitism is false.

 

[Apocalypse]

:screwy

The only legitimate response to nonsensical and lame anti-Israeli propaganda.

 

[Chagos]

~................I can think of at least 5 million legitimate reasons for any moral person to be opposed to Zionism and the continued existence of Israel. .................~

~...................One can oppose Zionism while supporting the creation of a Jewish state. ..................~

Well, what's it gonna be then?

 

[Logicman]

I can think of at least 5 million legitimate reasons for any moral person to be opposed to Zionism and the continued existence of Israel. I am referring to the number of Palestinian refugees of course, whose immoral and criminal displacement is, according to Zionists, a necessary component for the fulfillment and continued prosperity of the supposed "Jewish right" to statehood in Palestine.

I can think of TWO excellent reasons to support and/or cheer on the existence of Israel.

1. God ordained and gave that land to Israel (read Isaiah chapters 37-38).
2. The U.N. (now a darling of the liberals) approved the establishment of Israel.

 

[zyzygy]

I can think of TWO excellent reasons to support and/or cheer on the existence of Israel.

1. God ordained and gave that land to Israel (read Isaiah chapters 37-38).
2. The U.N. (now a darling of the liberals) approved the establishment of Israel.

Forget number one. It is a fiction.

 

[Logicman]

Forget number one. It is a fiction.

Wrong again.

 

[zyzygy]

Wrong again.

That's just your opinion. A story in an old book is not proof.

 

[L0neW0lf]

Well, what's it gonna be then?

Your feigned inability to to distinguish between the two is prime example of the attempt at thought control this thread is talking about. A deliberate effort to blur the line between what is "Jewish" and what is Zionist, in order to shut down criticism of the modern political movement and ideology under the false insinuation that it is anti-semitic.

 

[Chagos]

Your feigned inability to to distinguish between the two is prime example of the attempt at thought control this thread is talking about. A deliberate effort to blur the line between what is "Jewish" and what is Zionist, in order to shut down criticism of the modern political movement and ideology under the false insinuation that it is anti-semitic.

doesn't answer the question.

 

[L0neW0lf]

doesn't answer the question.

Yes it does, quite succinctly I might add.

A Jewish state/states can exist independent from Zionism. One can support Jewish statehood while being in opposition to Zionism.

The only reason one would claim otherwise is if that person is intentionally trying to blur the line between "Jewish" and "Zionist" in an effort to elicit automatic support for Zionism from lay people who by virtue of not wanting to be labeled or actually be considered antisemitic would be compelled to comply, under the so called new-antisemitism paradigm.

 

[Chagos]

Your feigned inability to to distinguish between the two is prime example of the attempt at thought control this thread is talking about. A deliberate effort to blur the line between what is "Jewish" and what is Zionist, in order to shut down criticism of the modern political movement and ideology under the false insinuation that it is anti-semitic.

doesn't answer the question.

To elucidate you on your confusion..........

1. "anti-Zionist" and "pro-Israel" is an oxymoronic position

2. Supporting the creation of a Jewish state is outdated. It already was created in 1947/48. To oppose the movement (philosophy, doctrine, whatever) that led to its creation can only mean destruction of same creation.

3. Being critical of Israeli policy since whenever is not necessarily anti-semitic. It isn't necessarily anti-Zionist either. But when critics self-proclaim as anti Zionist they advocate that the Jewish homeland be dissolved. That happens to be anti-semitic.

4. Thus your inability to distinguish sadly appears to be far from "feigned". And your inability to properly define cannot be solved by baseless accusations towards those that point it out to you. It so happens that I'm highly critical of Israeli policy on the Palestinian question. It also so happens that I'm highly critical of Palestinian behaviour in the same context. As much as towards racist positions advocated by either side, especially when they entail the destruction of the respective other.

 

[Chagos]

Yes it does, quite succinctly I might add.

A Jewish state/states can exist independent from Zionism. One can support Jewish statehood while being in opposition to Zionism.

The only reason one would claim otherwise is if that person is intentionally trying to blur the line between "Jewish" and "Zionist" in an effort to elicit automatic support for Zionism from lay people who by virtue of not wanting to be labeled or actually be considered antisemitic would be compelled to comply, under the so called new-antisemitism paradigm.

You're not adding anything. You're certainly not bringing new meat to the table by repeating an untenable position that's been addressed already.