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#NeverTrump [W:66]

Re: #NeverTrump

#NeverHillary is also high on my mind.

you don't reward serial liars, so how can anyone vote for her?
 
Re: #NeverTrump

#NeverHillary is also high on my mind.

you don't reward serial liars, so how can anyone vote for her?

Gary Johnson. Unlike Trump or Hillary, is not (to my knowledge) a Serial Liar.
 
Re: #NeverTrump

great characterization of the donald
and then i saw you snidely dismissed kasich in order to qualify cruz

the ONLY thing that would ever cause me to vote for trump is if the only other candidate was cruz
this excerpt says it better:

and this

Don’t Let Trump’s Antics Distract You From Cruz’s Unwavering Extremist Agenda

trump is everything you allege
yet, cruz is even worse

the ONLY legitimate republican option is kasich
Which makes sense because you are at least a liberal.
 
Re: #NeverTrump

If a decent candidate pops up who is pro-limited government and also pro-life, I'll shift. But right now, Johnson is the closest, and also as a general rule, I think it ought to be a particular third party that captures the #NeverTrump voters, so that later we can point back and say "see, that's where we went".

The two can't go together.
 
Re: #NeverTrump

#NeverHillary is also high on my mind.

you don't reward serial liars, so how can anyone vote for her?
Many would not, but if Trump is the alternative most will hold their nose, get drunk, do crack or bring along a barf bag, but vote for her they will.
 
Re: #NeverTrump

Actually, there has been decent coverage of Kasich all the way through since his candidacy announcement. Perhaps not on Fox News, but certainly in the real media.

I don't watch Fox, but neither was I really referring to media coverage.

I was talking about discussion and popular support for the guy here and on other forums I participate in, on social media, and in conversations I've had with people face-to-face.

You should go barefoot more often.

I was being rhetorical, but if we're gonna get our literal on the truth is I work from home and spend much of the day in slippers, sans socks.

;)
 
Re: #NeverTrump

Many would not, but if Trump is the alternative most will hold their nose, get drunk, do crack or bring along a barf bag, but vote for her they will.

sure, and others will do the same with Trump.

worst election choices I can ever recall!
 
Re: #NeverTrump

this thread sounds like a republican love feast.

run don run
 
Re: #NeverTrump

I don't watch Fox, but neither was I really referring to media coverage.
My apologies; that sounded like what you meant.
soot said:
I was talking about discussion and popular support for the guy here and on other forums I participate in, on social media, and in conversations I've had with people face-to-face.
Well, that phenomenon is extremely easy to explain: love him or hate him, Trump is a lot more fun to rant about!
I was being rhetorical, but if we're gonna get our literal on the truth is I work from home and spend much of the day in slippers, sans socks.

;)
Actually, I was being tongue-in-cheek as well, implying that the change in front runner hasn't been all that more frequent as in previous elections (as far as I recall). But as long as we're being literal, I happen to believe in walking and running barefoot as much as the weather and the terrain permit. It helps one's posture and overall fitness. :peace
 
Re: #NeverTrump

While reading some news and commentary online this morning, I came across a link that led to an opinion piece by Laura Ingraham entitled “A Time to Unite” (A Time to Unite | LifeZette). Ingraham called for Republicans to unite around Donald Trump.

...In today’s era of Social Media, the hashtag #NeverTrump conveys the only good, respectable, and honorable choice available to the electorate. #NeverTrump will be equally relevant in the Primary process and the general election. And, as Ingraham observed, “The citizenry will be watching closely.”

Ingraham has been a Trump booster since at least last fall, and like several other conservative pundits she has been relentless in her irrationality. As a former fan, its a disappointment that she (and others) have worked shamelessly at confirming Kahan's research finding that "politics makes you stupid".

She says that "...the truth is that most, if not all, of the folks supporting Trump don’t care who he offends, as long as he’s standing up for them. They feel like they’ve been bullied for years. For them, Trump is like the savior kid in the schoolyard who takes on the bully by popping him right in the eye. The kids who have been ridiculed or roughed up suddenly have a champion."

So "those folks" think that an opportunistic and fake oratorical enemy of their enemy, must be their friend? And do "those folks" or does Ingraham even notice on who's behalf he is running and what he is (and is not) championing? Does she even notice that they have adopted a champion whose views and allegiances have nothing to do with them, and are often oppositional to their interests?

Ingraham, thinking she is proving a point, unmindfully lists all the ways Americans have been bullied: the government telling property owners if and how they may use their land; how “Unelected bureaucrats stonewall and attack American citizens at every turn."; how federal judges acting as super-legislators harm our religious liberty, how the Federal Marriage Amendment should have worked out. She rightfully complains that "This bullying takes many forms, affects all aspects of our lives, and is carried out by many institutions.".

She adds " Yet one thing is clear — no Establishment figure in either party has put forward a credible program to make life better for middle America."

Gee, you would think that as a former clerk to Justice Thomas, Ingraham would have noticed that Trump has led a life using government to do the bullying she rails against. You would assume she knew that Trump thinks eminent domain and seizing private property for private use is good, and that he was more than suit happy to harass and bully an old woman in court for 10 years to get her tossed off so he could have a parking lot. And she might have noticed that Trump has "evolving" views on marriage equality as recently as 2013, but while he supports traditional marriage he is opposed to a federal amendment to the constitution allowing the states to actually make that determination. And when it comes to personal or religious liberty, he is all for it except when it comes to federal civil rights legislation to protect LBGT and supports affirmative action.

Does she think this is Trump putting forward "a credible program to make life better for middle America?"

Does Ingraham, in theory a movement conservative, think that Trump's position to keep SSI and Medicare entitlements as it is, is a credible program? How about his plan to increase the number of American's who don't pay income taxes to 63 percent, has anyone found that credible? Or how about Trump's promise to end Obamacare, or fix Obamacare, or to have single-payer health care, or to ensure every American has health insurance... (depending on which Donald Trump is speaking) even coherent, let alone credible, to Ms. Ingraham?

Ingraham concludes that:

For years, these people have yearned for someone to lead the charge, to take on the elitist bullies. If Trump is the only one who shows real fight, then they will support him. As of now, Iowans seem to believe that Texas Sen. Ted Cruz is the best man to do battle. (That so many in GOP leadership dislike Cruz helps burnish his bona fides as populist warrior.)

So we are supposed to vote for Trump because he will "lead the charge" against "them" for ideas that are incoherent, plans that are not credible, and goals that are inconsistent with her conservative beliefs?

Too stupid to be believed.
 
Re: #NeverTrump

Ain't it though, sometimes watching History unfold is not a good thing.

yep. sometimes I can't wonder if people like the op are payed operatives that only see flaws in one candidate. they try very hard to act centrist, but you follow their contributions long enough, and you realize that is a crock of ****.
 
Re: #NeverTrump

How about forcing all Muslims to register with the government so that they can be tracked in a database?

I'd love to see you point to the section that authorizes the Executive Branch to modify the First Amendment that way.
Well, before we start skipping off thinking we have to do all that, why don't you tell me his exact statement and when he said it. Lets analyze it and see if what your are saying he is saying is what he actually said.

Otherwise we are just putting the cart a little before the horse there, aren't we, cpwill?
 
Re: #NeverTrump

I'm sure Trump is comforted with Speaker Ryan chairing the Convention Rules Committee .
 
Re: #NeverTrump

Several things:

1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ng-the-media-easier-heres-how-he-could-do-it/ (to succeed, he'd actually have to reduce First Amendment protection of the Media)

2. http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...s-hed-absolutely-require-muslims-to-register/ (there's a big difference between requiring an entire group to be registered and tracking individuals for whom there is reasonable basis to believe they pose a threat)

Both ideas are incompatible with the First Amendment.
Seems to me if the media knowingly does something it should not, they should be open to libel. Why should they be exempt if they, without basis, knowingly damage someone's reputation or incite violence? The NBC editing of the audio 9 11 call made by George Zimmerman to make him out to be a racist was appalling and that sort of thing should 1. never be allowed to occur and 2. be made an example of where the line is drawn, between truth, speculation and the other side of the line where it is made up out of whole cloth fiction.

And here is a rundown of the events surrounding Trumps statements and responses to leading questions posed by reporters. In Context: Donald Trump's comments on a database of American Muslims | PolitiFact

Besides which, Trump would have to go through the legislative proposal process, taking any/all this to Congress.

This is by Politifact and their bias if anything is more left leaning. Shows a lot of ambiguity in the actual events and statements Trump made. I think it is much ado about little to nothing.
 
Re: #NeverTrump

Ingraham, thinking she is proving a point, unmindfully lists all the ways Americans have been bullied: the government telling property owners if and how they may use their land; how “Unelected bureaucrats stonewall and attack American citizens at every turn."; how federal judges acting as super-legislators harm our religious liberty, how the Federal Marriage Amendment should have worked out. She rightfully complains that "This bullying takes many forms, affects all aspects of our lives, and is carried out by many institutions.".

She adds " Yet one thing is clear — no Establishment figure in either party has put forward a credible program to make life better for middle America."

Gee, you would think that as a former clerk to Justice Thomas, Ingraham would have noticed that Trump has led a life using government to do the bullying she rails against. You would assume she knew that Trump thinks eminent domain and seizing private property for private use is good, and that he was more than suit happy to harass and bully an old woman in court for 10 years to get her tossed off so he could have a parking lot. And she might have noticed that Trump has "evolving" views on marriage equality as recently as 2013, but while he supports traditional marriage he is opposed to a federal amendment to the constitution allowing the states to actually make that determination. And when it comes to personal or religious liberty, he is all for it except when it comes to federal civil rights legislation to protect LBGT and supports affirmative action.


Does Ingraham, in theory a movement conservative, think that Trump's position to keep SSI and Medicare entitlements as it is, is a credible program? How about his plan to increase the number of American's who don't pay income taxes to 63 percent, has anyone found that credible? Or how about Trump's promise to end Obamacare, or fix Obamacare, or to have single-payer health care, or to ensure every American has health insurance... (depending on which Donald Trump is speaking) even coherent, let alone credible, to Ms. Ingraham?
Who would you put most at fault, the ones who devise a plan wherein somethings may be taken advantage of... or the ones, if that something is clearly legal, capitalize on the opportunity presented? For instance, I don't blame people on government handouts for taking those handouts, I blame government for addicting those folks. Trump is a sharp guy that does actually know the system, but he didn't create the system. I am pretty much against the income tax as presently constructed, but at tax time I use every advantage I can to lower that tax that I wish were not there in the first place... does that mean I am wrong to do so, or just smart knowing there is a game to be played?

Come on. Does anyone find any of these candidate's plans truly credible? Who is this savior that you think is coming that has led the pristine life, never having had a position that you don't like? I ll say it again, I am a Cruz man, but you folks ready to pull the trigger for Clinton sicken one to the core. We have seen in practice the ineptness and corruption of an over the Hillary, and yet you will knowingly hand the election to her.

Some things, as you conclude and I agree, are just too stupid to be believed.
 
Re: #NeverTrump

Seems to me if the media knowingly does something it should not, they should be open to libel. Why should they be exempt if they, without basis, knowingly damage someone's reputation or incite violence? The NBC editing of the audio 9 11 call made by George Zimmerman to make him out to be a racist was appalling and that sort of thing should 1. never be allowed to occur and 2. be made an example of where the line is drawn, between truth, speculation and the other side of the line where it is made up out of whole cloth fiction.

And here is a rundown of the events surrounding Trumps statements and responses to leading questions posed by reporters. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/nov/24/donald-trumps-comments-database-american-muslims/]In Context: Donald Trump's comments on a database of American Muslims | PolitiFact[/url]

Besides which, Trump would have to go through the legislative proposal process, taking any/all this to Congress.

This is by Politifact and their bias if anything is more left leaning. Shows a lot of ambiguity in the actual events and statements Trump made. I think it is much ado about little to nothing.
Who is to decide? Would you like the Obama folks deciding what the truth is and who to prosecute? I think Fox News, Limbaugh, etc would have been off the air years ago but for the protections of the USA Constitution.

I don't really have a dog in this fight and I think that much of the MSM shows extreme biases but I think freedom of the press is one of the good things about the USA.

.
 
Re: #NeverTrump

Who is to decide? Would you like the Obama folks deciding what the truth is and who to prosecute? I think Fox News, Limbaugh, etc would have been off the air years ago but for the protections of the USA Constitution.

I don't really have a dog in this fight and I think that much of the MSM shows extreme biases but I think freedom of the press is one of the good things about the USA.

.
There is a difference between extreme bias and knowingly doing something false that is also damaging or potentially is the catalyst for violence. Can you give me a reason why NBC should be able to continue to be allowed to manipulate in such an egregious manner as was perpetrated in the Zimmerman case? Can you see the media stopping this malfeasance if there is not a consequence?

No right is absolute. I am all for freedom of the press, but there will always be a need to draw lines, boundaries...since it is human nature to exploit to ones own advantage. It would be for the courts to decide.
 
Re: #NeverTrump

There is a difference between extreme bias and knowingly doing something false that is also damaging or potentially is the catalyst for violence. Can you give me a reason why NBC should be able to continue to be allowed to manipulate in such an egregious manner as was perpetrated in the Zimmerman case? Can you see the media stopping this malfeasance if there is not a consequence?

No right is absolute. I am all for freedom of the press, but there will always be a need to draw lines, boundaries...since it is human nature to exploit to ones own advantage. It would be for the courts to decide.
You mean the same court that threw out the Zimmerman case? :doh You have more faith in the judicial system than I think is justified.

Even if the courts did rule as you think they would, it would be years down the road and, long before it went to court, those in power would be using tax payer dollars to harass their political opponents.

.
 
Re: #NeverTrump

yep. sometimes I can't wonder if people like the op are payed operatives that only see flaws in one candidate. they try very hard to act centrist, but you follow their contributions long enough, and you realize that is a crock of ****.

Some forget that after a while posting on a site the regulars know who they are through their posts on several issues, pretending to be something one is not only makes them look dishonest.
 
Re: #NeverTrump

You mean the same court that threw out the Zimmerman case? :doh You have more faith in the judicial system than I think is justified.

Even if the courts did rule as you think they would, it would be years down the road and, long before it went to court, those in power would be using tax payer dollars to harass their political opponents.

.

Don't know what you imply by "thrown out", it was a jury trial, evidence presented and the jury made its decision to find Zimmerman not guilty. A verdict that was sound based on all the evidience. I have problems with the American Justice system, but they got it right in that instance.

Perhaps I do have more faith, but I certainly would rather leave it up to a jury than let the media run amok, they are not above reproach players and, as with the Rodney King beating where they left out much of the beginning and replayed it over, and over, over, over and over inciting, inspiring people to riot, to do violence...what was left out of that replaying was this 230-pound, six-foot-three-inch man, with a 0.19 blood alcohol level [with 0.08 as the legal level of intoxication), acting wildly and lunging at policemen, four of whom he actually threw off. The media were extremely responsible for billowing the white hot rage over the Rodney King verdict.

The riots that followed killed 55 people, 2000 injured, 11,000 arrested, tremendous property damage...that is more than libel, that is potentially criminal if all the evidence were to be weighed out properly in an adjudicated manner.

Well, I am more about justice than some it is apparent. I would rather a responsible media, something we do not have currently.
 
Re: #NeverTrump

so it is ok for the RNC to disenfranchise over 7.5 million voters with this tidbit,i wonder why they said anything,i thank i know the RNC RHINOS have no idea that what they say is around the world in 60 sec.they are clueless this is not 1972 mr haugland is a card carrying member of the REBUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMUNIST PARTY.
here it is boys and girls the RNC will not exist if they do this.

To watch someone screaming about RINO's while supporting Donald Trump just boggles the mind...

tim-and-eric-mind-blown.gif


Trump knew the rules going in. If Trump fails to win enough delegates, it's because he didn't secure enough of a majority before the convention. The fault is HIS in that case and no one is being "disenfranchised". Indeed, if he FAILS to get the necessary amount of delegates, the "disenfranchisement" could be as much argued on behalf of the majority that voted for someone OTHER THAN Trump (if Trump was still made the nominee) far more than it could be argued for Trump supporters if he fails to garner enough extra delegates. A failure of his own design due to his attitude and stances throughout this primary.
 
Re: #NeverTrump

I agree

Yet people elected one and will elect the other.

And seemingly, those who complained about those type of things previously are happily getting on the "hope and ch-"....sorry, wrong bumper sticker election..."Make America Great Again" bandwagon despite Trump turning the dial up to 11.
 
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