Netanyahu welcomes peace in the tensions between Israel and Palestine

[ido_]

All you have to do is google...
Israel Approves 454 New Settlement Homes | Al Jazeera America

So even in, Ramat Shlomo which is a neighborhood in the heart of Jerusalem founded in early 90s Israel is not building new buildings.

 

[AFM]

Your rudeness is disappointing, but since you're new to me I'll ignore it for now and chalk your bad behavior to "hangover" or "bad day at the office."

You said, "Because Bibi is every increasing new settlements on Palestinian lands." Your answer is "East Jerusalem" which isn't a settlement, and "The West Bank" which is hopelessly vague. Where are these "new settlements" you're referring to? This particular debate forum runs on specifics, not extreme generalities. Such generalities might have worked on whatever other forum you came, but not so here.

Its pointless talking to you as you don't know what you are talking about, Israel has been illegally occupying Palestinian lands since 1967, as per the UN and the international community, which evidently you don't recognize.

 

[AFM]

Well, my opinion of Netanyahu is certainly improving...


...maybe Obama really has been the villain in the Israel-US feud the entire time.

Dunno anymore.

No its been every US President since 1948, don't blame everything on Obama

 

[RetiredUSN]

No its been every US President since 1948, don't blame everything on Obama

I believe that every US President has done a excellent job with the Jewish/Palestinian fiasco.

Even Obama.... Yes!

His historical head butting with BiBi, was bound to happen due to some of Obama's words, but that will happen between two stubborn guys, each who believes in his own principles. BiBi could have handled some of the situations better himself.

 

[calm]

My answer:

new means after 1993-4 when the oslo treaty was signed in which Israel obligated not to build new settlements

expansion of existing settlements is allowed according to the accords so no, new doesn't include expansion. Moreover, the expansions are done within settlement borders INSIDE their fences

I'm still formulating my complete reply but I want to be certain that we understand where each of us are coming from. I need to understand the "basis" for your claims.

-----

Would this sort of invalidate your claims and if not why not?
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A study published by the Applied Research Institute- Jerusalem (ARIJ) said that the Israeli occupation increased the area of Jewish settlements in the West Bank by 85% between 1996 and 2007.

The study also noted that some settlements were expanded by 126% since 1996 such as Beitar Elit to the south west of Bethlehem district, or even 143% of its area in 1996 such as Mashouki Darajot to the east of Bethlehem district. Other settlements in the West Bank witnessed expansion between 50% to 100% of their areas in 1996.
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And, if the settlers build a security fence (or expand the areas of patrol outside the fence) and/or Israeli Only roadways outside of the original settlement boundaries, would that invalidate your claims?

Calm

 

[Cardinal]

Its pointless talking to you as you don't know what you are talking about, Israel has been illegally occupying Palestinian lands since 1967, as per the UN and the international community, which evidently you don't recognize.

You said "Because Bibi is every increasing new settlements on Palestinian lands." What are these new settlements, AFM?

 

[Gaztopian]

I believe that every US President has done a excellent job with the Jewish/Palestinian fiasco.

Which is why we can all see how the situation there improved dramatically. Oh the irony.

 

[Gaztopian]

Netanyahu welcomes peace, appoints Lieberman minister of defense. Oh the irony.

 

[Cardinal]

All you have to do is google...
Israel Approves 454 New Settlement Homes | Al Jazeera America

The premise as I understood it is that new settlements were ongoing, not expansion of existing settlements. According to Wikipedia no new settlements have been created since 1994, even though the Oslo accord didn't even specifically prohibit that.

 

[ido_]

I'm still formulating my complete reply but I want to be certain that we understand where each of us are coming from. I need to understand the "basis" for your claims.

-----

Would this sort of invalidate your claims and if not why not?
------

A study published by the Applied Research Institute- Jerusalem (ARIJ) said that the Israeli occupation increased the area of Jewish settlements in the West Bank by 85% between 1996 and 2007.

The study also noted that some settlements were expanded by 126% since 1996 such as Beitar Elit to the south west of Bethlehem district, or even 143% of its area in 1996 such as Mashouki Darajot to the east of Bethlehem district. Other settlements in the West Bank witnessed expansion between 50% to 100% of their areas in 1996.
------

And, if the settlers build a security fence (or expand the areas of patrol outside the fence) and/or Israeli Only roadways outside of the original settlement boundaries, would that invalidate your claims?

Calm

You dont need researches , all of th information is available on "Peace Now" website
Settlements and Outposts | Peace Now

you can download an excel sheet with all the data.

The data you brought here about Beitar is from 1996 and is of an expansion of an existing settlement in the Gush Etzyon block, it was ok according to the Oslo accords.
Specificaly Beitar is located on the green line most western in the Gush Etzyon block and will probably be part of Israel in any permanent agreement so I dont see expanding it as a barrier for peace.
You should also note that the Gush Etzyon block was Jewish at 1948, it was occupied by Jordan and Jews were expelled from the area, I wouldnt even call it occupied, I would call it liberated territory.

Its like the Peace Now website calls the Jewish quarter in the old city a "settlement", Jews lived there for 3000 years, expelled by Jordan and returned in 1967, now they are "settlers".

regarding fences and roads. I don't see how they are relevant, they can move into a Palestinian state, no road will protest.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Which is why we can all see how the situation there improved dramatically. Oh the irony.

England's Palestinian vacuum, and The League Of Nations created this fiasco by handing Israel a checkerboard for borders,and leaving them surrounded by the very people who have hated them for centuries.

This fiasco is not the sole responsibility of the United States, but every US president since 1949 have kept the two parties separated enough to prevent a total blood bath. Meanwhile the UN sat back and criticized every move the US presidents made.

Obama, all the way back to Truman had this **** dumped onto their laps by the world.

 

[calm]

regarding fences and roads. I don't see how they are relevant, they can move into a Palestinian state, no road will protest.

Well, if I had an acre of land, but built a fence around the land which was 1000 feet larger than my acre on all sides as an example, or if I built a roadway outside of my acre of land and which Palestinian Folks were not allowed to travel upon, is that not relevant to this conversation?

Calm

 

[calm]

England's Palestinian vacuum, and The League Of Nations created this fiasco by handing Israel a checkerboard for borders,and leaving them surrounded by the very people who have hated them for centuries.

When the holocaust was taking place in Europe, it was the Palestinian Folks and the Arab citizens of Morocco who gave the Jews safe haven. (They were "Invited" and encouraged to seek refuge with these "friends")

No other People came to the rescue of Jewish Folks in the same way that these two examples I mentioned did.

So, the "Hatred" as you put it, is not centuries old.

Calm

 

[RetiredUSN]

When the holocaust was taking place in Europe, it was the Palestinian Folks and the Arab citizens of Morocco who gave the Jews safe haven. (They were "Invited" and encouraged to seek refuge with these "friends")

No other People came to the rescue of Jewish Folks in the same way that these two examples I mentioned did.

So, the "Hatred" as you put it, is not centuries old.

Calm

I didn't type anything to contradict what you have written. The overall hatred of the Jews by the Arabs dates all the way back to Abraham, but ate the same time, not all Arabs hate Jews, and not all Jews hate Arabs. Arab antisemitism was growing before then, and spilled over when the League Of nations granted Israel it's own land.

The 1947 - 1948 war was fought between the Arab Nations (not Palestinians in general) and a newly formed Israel. Evidently, there were enough Jew hating Arabs in power at the time to start the 1947-1948 war. The peaceful Arabs were killed off, or run off at the same time. After the war, you had Arab countries sending non Palestinians into Palestine to keep stirring things up.

 

[calm]

I would guess that you might own your own home if your Nic "RetiredUSN" is accurate.

It is not hatred .....

It is about the "Right Of Return".

For a lifetime, I have watched the Jewish Folks enter courtrooms across this universe and demand the return of money, properties and artwork which were seized (stolen) from them by Hitler and The Clowns.

Well, I think the Palestinian Folks deserve the same "Justice" and "Right Of Return" as the Jewish Folks have insisted upon.

The Jewish Folks always claim that in Palestine .... "It was too long ago and that the facts on the ground have Changed" .... but that is not what the Jewish Folks claim as they appear in courtrooms across the world and seek reparations for themselves.

"Get off this estate."
"What for?"
"Because it's mine."
"Where did you get it?"
"From my father."
"Where did he get it?"
"From his father."
"And where did he get it?"
"He fought for it."
"Well, I'll fight you for it."
--Carl Sandburg--

Calm

 

[calm]

New Settlements Since Oslo .....

Israel now calls "Illegal Outposts" as being "New Neighbourhoods Of Existing Settlements" even when they are a mile, or miles, away from that settlement.

And they expand the "security perimeter".

Calm

 

[Chagos]

When the holocaust was taking place in Europe, it was the Palestinian Folks and the Arab citizens of Morocco who gave the Jews safe haven. (They were "Invited" and encouraged to seek refuge with these "friends")

Amazing. :roll:

So I guess the Hebron massacre of Jews in 1929 happened somewhere else. The 1936 revolt by Arabs in Palestine (lasting 3 years) to sabotage any immigration of Jews (of which countless were killed) also happened somewhere else?

and the Arab citizens of Morocco

more foolishness.

Morocco was under French Vichy governance while the Holocaust was under way. In case you don't know, the regime that collaborated with Nazi Germany. The only thing that was more favourable for Jewish refugees from Europe that made it there in time, was that they were merely sent to internment camps. Many of them for forced labor. Moroccans had little impact on anything.

Do you just make these strange tales up as you go along or do you get them from somewhere?

No other People came to the rescue of Jewish Folks in the same way that these two examples I mentioned did.

......of which any Jewish survivors must sure as heck be damn glad:roll:

But the statement constitutes history at its most skewered anyway. No nation among all those honored by Yad Vashem has more recognized "Righteous Among the Nations" than Poland. Where helping Jews was punishable by death.

Denmark, Spain..... the list is endless.

Remarkably, China took in over 18,000 which is more than New Zealand, South Africa and British India together. Even Japan provided refuge.

 

[Chagos]

Well, if I had an acre of land, but built a fence around the land which was 1000 feet larger than my acre on all sides as an example, or if I built a roadway outside of my acre of land and which Palestinian Folks were not allowed to travel upon, is that not relevant to this conversation?

Calm

New Settlements Since Oslo .....

Israel now calls "Illegal Outposts" as being "New Neighbourhoods Of Existing Settlements" even when they are a mile, or miles, away from that settlement.

And they expand the "security perimeter".

Calm

The claim was "new settlements" and it's not been substantiated. If you were to read posts like #25 with proper understanding, factuality (rather than any spin you want to pursue) could return.

 

[Chagos]

Its pointless talking to you as you don't know what you are talking about, Israel has been illegally occupying Palestinian lands since 1967, as per the UN and the international community, which evidently you don't recognize.

None of which takes anything away from the fact that you're not answering the question.

It might also be interesting to hear your version of how the West Bank and Gaza were Palestinian lands when one considers who they were taken from (by being occupied). Do you actually know anything on this?

Note that I'm not disputing their "occupied" status by whatever other name any interested party wants to call that.

 

[calm]

You said "Because Bibi is every increasing new settlements on Palestinian lands." What are these new settlements, AFM?

Okay .... I finished my research and asked some folks in Mouse Land for verification.

I think this should be my last comment on this topic unless otherwise requested to.

Three is not none

“No new settlements since Oslo.” is an engineered definitional loophole for international propaganda purposes. In order for a settlement to be legally “new” it has to be approved by the GoI.

The GoI doesn’t approve any (well, three since 1996). Ipso facto, no “new” settlements “since Oslo.”

They do however build them on confiscated Palestinian land. They just don’t approve them.

Typical Israeli BS.
------

The lie Israel sold the world — settlement 'outposts'
By Yossi Gurvitz for Yesh Din
April 03, 2015
The lie Israel sold the world — settlement ‘outposts’ | +972 Magazine

The Israeli government’s policy proves that the outposts are effectively settlements – only you’ll never hear them being called that.
“The outposts are not ‘hilltop youth.’ It is a carefully planned seizure of strategic points, the outposts have been coordinated with the prime minister.”
--Adi Minz, former Yesha Council Chairman, 2004--
The lie Israel sold the world — settlement ‘outposts’ | +972 Magazine

 

[calm]

Amazing. :roll:

I shortened the quote for brevity. I only used the quote method so that you would be aware of a reply.

What I said about Palestine and Morocco offering refuge (rescuing) Jewish Folks when nobody else would is accurate.

Sure, there were some folks who acted like Hitler, but many Jews were rescued and offered refuge in Morocco and Palestine during Hitler's reign.

Calm

 

[Apocalypse]

I shortened the quote for brevity. I only used the quote method so that you would be aware of a reply.

What I said about Palestine and Morocco offering refuge (rescuing) Jewish Folks when nobody else would is accurate.

Sure, there were some folks who acted like Hitler, but many Jews were rescued and offered refuge in Morocco and Palestine during Hitler's reign.

Calm

Your reference to the British and the French as "Palestine and Morocco" says a lot about how informed you are of the history of mankind, and that is without referring to the actual claim about granting refuge which is also inaccurate.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Amazing. :roll:

So I guess the Hebron massacre of Jews in 1929 happened somewhere else. The 1936 revolt by Arabs in Palestine (lasting 3 years) to sabotage any immigration of Jews (of which countless were killed) also happened somewhere else?more foolishness.

Morocco was under French Vichy governance while the Holocaust was under way. In case you don't know, the regime that collaborated with Nazi Germany. The only thing that was more favourable for Jewish refugees from Europe that made it there in time, was that they were merely sent to internment camps. Many of them for forced labor. Moroccans had little impact on anything.

Do you just make these strange tales up as you go along or do you get them from somewhere?

......of which any Jewish survivors must sure as heck be damn glad:roll:

But the statement constitutes history at its most skewered anyway. No nation among all those honored by Yad Vashem has more recognized "Righteous Among the Nations" than Poland. Where helping Jews was punishable by death.

Denmark, Spain..... the list is endless.

Remarkably, China took in over 18,000 which is more than New Zealand, South Africa and British India together. Even Japan provided refuge.

There were normal every day Arabs that helped the Jews in many regions of the Middle east. Many Jews and Arabs lived alongside each other peacefully in these regions. I am talking about everyday people, not governments. Much of the middle east antisemitism was generated by the Arab warlords, and the Arab government officials who kept stirring up the frenzy.

What every day Polish people did for the Jews was very courageous.

 

[CJ 2.0]

All you have to do is google...
Israel Approves 454 New Settlement Homes | Al Jazeera America

To quote your quote:

"The building of 436 of the housing units, in the settlement of Ramat Shlomo on land Israel occupied in a 1967 war"

In other words, not a new settlement, but just expanding housing within a community that already existed.

 

[Chagos]

I shortened the quote for brevity. I only used the quote method so that you would be aware of a reply.

No problem.

What I said about Palestine and Morocco offering refuge (rescuing) Jewish Folks when nobody else would is accurate.

No, it's totally misinformed. For one thing since you don't appear to know the nature of either territory at the time (Vichy French , respectively British) and the corresponding policies, for another since your claim of "when nobody else would" is so false as to be silly.

Sure, there were some folks who acted like Hitler, but many Jews were rescued and offered refuge in Morocco and Palestine during Hitler's reign.

Okay, cite some source for this. Without it that's just you making things up.

The only thing that can be said for both countries at the time is that neither deported refugees to German camps. The British for obvious reasons, the Vichy French because Nazi Germany couldn't interfere in Morocco the way it finally could in France (Rommel never made Morocco).