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Neocon R.I.P. (1 Viewer)

Billo_Really

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End of the Neo-Cons
Nov. 5, 2006. 08:16 AM
DAVID OLIVE


"Every dogma has its day."
— Abraham Rotstein

the neo-conservative vision that has guided American foreign policy since 2001 has run its course. The neo-cons' grand design lies in ruins, having accomplished nothing other than to shrink America's stature in the world.
The Great Neo Con is over. The fanatical, psychotic, far-right, extreme political zealots and despots have been smacked down like a Chuck Ludell right cross. If I had my way, I would arrest every one of you f.uckers on war crimes and treason. You almost destroyed this country. And your demise shows that we are indeed, a great nation that can clean it's own house.

Don't let the door hit you in the a.s.s on your way out!
 
I love when liberals confuse editorials with factual news.
 
Billo_Really said:
The Great Neo Con is over. The fanatical, psychotic, far-right, extreme political zealots and despots have been smacked down like a Chuck Ludell right cross. If I had my way, I would arrest every one of you f.uckers on war crimes and treason. You almost destroyed this country. And your demise shows that we are indeed, a great nation that can clean it's own house.

Don't let the door hit you in the a.s.s on your way out!
Don't count on it.

They'll just go back to working with Democrats.

Further, they're not far right anything. Neoconservatism was founded by socialist and communist types. They are intentional entryists.
 
I want to have two or more strong parties in this country.
Rove's strategy of playing to the base is clearly going to cost the GOP a lot in the long term.

The GOP :
a. has lost the African American vote.
b. has lost the gay and civil liberties vote
c. is losing the Hispanic vote
d. is much weaker with the Evangelical vote.

It looks like the GOP wants to be a party that only exists in the South.
 
Billo_Really said:
The Great Neo Con is over. The fanatical, psychotic, far-right, extreme political zealots and despots have been smacked down like a Chuck Ludell right cross. If I had my way, I would arrest every one of you f.uckers on war crimes and treason. You almost destroyed this country. And your demise shows that we are indeed, a great nation that can clean it's own house.

Don't let the door hit you in the a.s.s on your way out!

I can see the libtards are as stupid as always no matter what site you visit.....
 
Cold Dirt said:
I can see the libtards are as stupid as always no matter what site you visit.....

I hear Rush calling you ..... bye bye :2wave:
 
hipsterdufus said:
I hear Rush calling you ..... bye bye :2wave:

I hear Air America calling.....oops, no I don't and either does anyone else:lol: ........btw, I am not a mind dumb idiot liberal marching to beat of the mindless clueless likes of Democratic Underground and Moveon.org, nor do I need the likes of Rush telling how to think or vote....I have a mind of my own, I make my choices, not told how, when or where to be lead unlike the majority of liberals.......
 
I don't know what the results of the election will mean for the nation, but I do know that that it means that threads normally doomed to the basement have had free reign for the last week. And this goes for pretty much every thread that's been created since last Tuesday.

Please tell me this will this pass soon.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Don't count on it.

They'll just go back to working with Democrats.

Further, they're not far right anything. Neoconservatism was founded by socialist and communist types. They are intentional entryists.

Simon nailed this one perfectly. In fact, Irving Kristol, the one who started the Neocon movement, WAS a card carrying Communist who supported the Trotsky faction. His mentor, Leo Strauss, was a Liberal who taught the Neocons the concept of "Noble Lies", which was created by Plato, and used by Machiavelli and Karl Marx.

Here is something else you didnt know. The Neocons originally called themselves Neoliberals, but changed the Name to Neocon when they saw the Conservative wave beginning to sweep America. The term "Neoliberalism" is still in use today, especially in South America. Neocons were never truly about ideology, but only raw, Machiavellian power.

By the way, Zbignew Brsinski was a Neocon too, and he was a Democrat. The Neocons may be getting swept out of the GOP, but they are not dead yet, not as long as they can find themselves another parasitic host to infest.
 
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Originally posted by danarhea
Simon nailed this one perfectly. In fact, Irving Kristol, the one who started the Neocon movement, WAS a card carrying Communist who supported the Trotsky faction. His mentor, Leo Strauss, was a Liberal who taught the Neocons the concept of "Noble Lies", which was created by Plato, and used by Machiavelli and Karl Marx.

Here is something else you didnt know. They Neocons originally called themselves Neoliberals, but changed the Name to Neocon when they saw the Conservative wave beginning to sweep America. The term "Neoliberalism" is still in use today, especially in South America. Neocons were never truly about ideology, but only raw, Machiavellian power.

By the way, Zbignew Brsinski was a Neocon too, and he was a Democrat.
Well, I never claimed to be John Locke.

I also realize I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.
 
Originally posted by Adrian
I don't know what the results of the election will mean for the nation, but I do know that that it means that threads normally doomed to the basement have had free reign for the last week. And this goes for pretty much every thread that's been created since last Tuesday.

Please tell me this will this pass soon.
If I had to put money on it, we'll probably see some symbolic gestures, like bringing back habeas corpus for detainees, then it'll be business as usual.

If it gets to that point, then the Dems go in '08. I think if we can generate a high turnover of Representatives with each sucessive election, sooner or later, they have to catch the clue, that just like our own jobs, if their not doing theirs................it's the un-employment line!

If they want to keep their jobs and be re-elected, then do the f.uckin' work we want you to do! And the "we" in this case, is the obvious (yet forgotten) WE THE PEOPLE!
 
Originally posted by Cold Dirt:
I can see the libtards are as stupid as always no matter what site you visit.....
Welcome to Debate Politics!
 
I have a question. Everyone is saying how evil these neocons are. What exactly is "neoconservatism" When I tried to look it up, I found it simply means you are agressive on foreign policy. If thats true, count me in.
 
Rhapsody1447 said:
I have a question. Everyone is saying how evil these neocons are. What exactly is "neoconservatism" When I tried to look it up, I found it simply means you are agressive on foreign policy. If thats true, count me in.

The problem with neoconservatism is that so far it hasn't worked. The philosophy assumes omnipotence on on the part of our military, when in fact we are just very, very strong. Neoconservatism believes in unilateralism, but the result is that we have weakened ourselves by ticking off nations we might otherwise have gotten favors from. A strong military combined with strong diplomacy is what generally works. Neoconservatism, which mostly eschews diplomacy as cowardice, has not.

Here's an experiment for you. Try applying an "agressive foreign policy" to your neighborhood. Demand your way with every neighbor on every matter. Avoid compromise. Make every neighbor who doesn't give in to you your enemy. In other words, act as a neoconservative locally. Watch your isolation grow. And good luck getting a neighbor to pick up your mail while you're away on vacation, or signing for that package while you went out to the store, or turning down the music when you have an important meeting the next day.
 
"Neocons" in a nutshell are right-wing fanatics on social issues who reject traditional "conservative" ideals on fiscal issues ---- hence, the Republican Party of Bush/Cheney/Rove/Religious right.. et al......


Thank God that America sent a Mandate that they reject this philosophy.....maybe now we can move forward as a country.
 
disneydude said:
"Neocons" in a nutshell are right-wing fanatics on social issues who reject traditional "conservative" ideals on fiscal issues ---- hence, the Republican Party of Bush/Cheney/Rove/Religious right.. et al......
What is your source for this definition?
 
Rhapsody1447 said:
I have a question. Everyone is saying how evil these neocons are. What exactly is "neoconservatism" When I tried to look it up, I found it simply means you are agressive on foreign policy. If thats true, count me in.
from here:http://www.debatepolitics.com/archives/2522-conservative-vs-neoconservative.html#post45900

From the Godfather of NeoConservatism:

The Neoconservative Persuasion
From the August 25, 2003 issue: What it was, and what it is.
by Irving Kristol

...the historical task and political purpose of neoconservatism would seem to be this: to convert the Republican party, and American conservatism in general, against their respective wills, into a new kind of conservative politics suitable to governing a modern democracy.

...an attitude toward public finance that is far less risk averse than is the case among more traditional conservatives.

Neocons do not feel that kind of alarm or anxiety about the growth of the state... seeing it as natural, indeed inevitable. Because they tend to be more interested in history than economics or sociology, they know that the 19th-century idea, so neatly propounded by Herbert Spencer in his "The Man Versus the State," was a historical eccentricity. People have always preferred strong government to weak government, although they certainly have no liking for anything that smacks of overly intrusive government. Neocons feel at home in today's America to a degree that more traditional conservatives do not.

The upshot is a quite unexpected alliance between neocons, who include a fair proportion of secular intellectuals, and religious traditionalists.
Because religious conservatism is so feeble in Europe, the neoconservative potential there is correspondingly weak.

And large nations, whose identity is ideological, like the Soviet Union of yesteryear and the United States of today, inevitably have ideological interests in addition to more material concerns. Barring extraordinary events, the United States will always feel obliged to defend, if possible, a democratic nation under attack from nondemocratic forces, external or internal.
No complicated geopolitical calculations of national interest are necessary.

Irving Kristol is author of "Neoconservatism: The Autobiography of an Idea."
And from William Kristol
"If we have to make common cause with the more hawkish liberals and fight the conservatives, that is fine with me... If you read the last few issues of the Weekly Standard, it has much more in common with liberal hawks than traditional conservatives."
From Benador Associates:
What the Heck Is a Neocon?
by Max Boot
Wall Street Journal


The original neocons were a band of liberal intellectuals who rebelled against the Democratic Party's leftward drift on defense issues in the 1970s. At first the neocons clustered around Sen. Henry "Scoop" Jackson, a Democrat, but then they aligned themselves with Ronald Reagan and the Republicans, who promised to confront Soviet expansionism.

So is "neoconservatism" worthless as a political label? Not entirely. In social policy, it stands for a broad sympathy with a traditionalist agenda and a rejection of extreme libertarianism.

On economic matters, neocons...embrace a laissez-faire line, though they are not as troubled by the size of the welfare state as libertarians are.

But it is not really domestic policy that defines neoconservatism. This was a movement founded on foreign policy, and it is still here that neoconservatism carries the greatest meaning...

One group of conservatives believes that we should use armed force only to defend our vital national interests, narrowly defined. They believe that we should remove, or at least disarm, Saddam Hussein, but not occupy Iraq for any substantial period afterward. The idea of bringing democracy to the Middle East they denounce as a mad, hubristic dream likely to backfire with tragic consequences. This view, which goes under the somewhat self-congratulatory moniker of "realism," is championed by foreign-policy mandarins like Henry Kissinger, Brent Scowcroft and James Baker III.

[Neocons] ...think, however, that "realism" presents far too crabbed a view of American power and responsibility.
And from here:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/5089-what-neo-conservative.html#post128983

 
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Realist
Realists…

* Are guided more by practical considerations than ideological vision
* Believe US power is crucial to successful diplomacy - and vice versa
* Don't want US policy options unduly limited by world opinion or ethical considerations
* Believe strong alliances are important to US interests
* Weigh the political costs of foreign action
* Believe foreign intervention must be dictated by compelling national interest

Historical realist: President Dwight D. Eisenhower
Modern realist: Secretary of State Colin Powell


I got that, although I don't agree with the last point.
 
Then again it recognized Ronald Reagan as a modern neoconservative... and I agree with the majority of the points on the Neoconservative list.
 
Cold Dirt said:
I can see the libtards are as stupid as always no matter what site you visit.....

I'm so sorry your party is in total meltdown. too bad, so sad. pretty soon, the only place you neocons can win will be in the south, because you can now forget about the Northeast, West Coast and Upper Midwest. Tell me, how are the republithugs going to dig themselves out of this hole they dug for themselves??
 
Cold Dirt said:
I hear Air America calling.....oops, no I don't and either does anyone else:lol: ........btw, I am not a mind dumb idiot liberal marching to beat of the mindless clueless likes of Democratic Underground and Moveon.org, nor do I need the likes of Rush telling how to think or vote....I have a mind of my own, I make my choices.......

apparently, you need more practice thinking.
 

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