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I just wish there were a way for the membership to have some reasonable expectation of open dialog that might actually affect change while still not having to pressure vauge in a way that financially burdens his family during a time of unemployment.

But people will do what they will do to be heard without the kind of nasty smears already being seen here.

Catz, basically, you are doing that doublethink thing the staff does here: you present that Orion can't possibly have any other motive than to cause problems because he's in opposition to certain things he sees. That's smearing him. He can care about the forum and not particularly care about some of the systemic problems in the forum. You're being dishonest and disingenuous when you try to spin it otherwise.

Just an observation.

And for the record, vauge gave the professional answer and it should have been left at that.
 
Orion said:
Cute analogy, but hardly accurate. I am one person who can only exercise one choice, analogous to one vote. If enough people agree with me and don't donate, that's not holding the forum for ransom, that is democracy in action. But please, by all means, continue your smear campaign.
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Its not a smear campaign, and this isn't a democracy. All this bull**** about "democracy" is a cop out. its a privately owned forum. You should realize that at some point, and appreciate the lengths that this forum goes to to allow people to express opinions, instead of chastising it for some minor inconviences to your demands. Most forums don't tolerate most of what we do, and usually don't even have a process of infraction. They just send the sht packing as soon as they become disruptive. But please continue your smear campaign against this site.
 
For everyone - please cease with the personal attacks. Consider this a warning.
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Orion said:
The owner of this forum just said that my opinions are respected. That is the kind of attitude this forum needs, and not your shining example above of "our way or the high way".
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And they very much are respected and appreciated, but we do not have to agree with you wishing ill will toward what we have worked hard for. If you do not wish to contribute. Don't. We've made it this far without you... :)

{goes in to song}

Ahem...sorry about that.

Seriously, no one is twisting your arm, no need to try and break others'.

Thanks for understanding.
 
We are at almost 200 for the month already, so thankfully many do feel this board is worth donating for and responded positively to Vauge asking for help. To all those who donated this month so far, thank you. I would also point out that we are still running the avatar for donation sale in the off topic forum for those who might want a little fun with their donation. Please stop by and see if their is an avatar you might like to buy for a donation to the board: http://www.debatepolitics.com/off-topic-discussion/79823-great-avatar-donation-drive.html

Thank you again to all those who have helped support the board this month. I don't have the words to properly express how much I personally appreciate it.
 
SE102 said:
I'm unemployed and in college as well. :C
I wish I could donate sometime soon. Most likely over christmas or during a summer I will be able to.
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Hey, you do whatever you can. No one expect more than that.
 
WI Crippler said:
Its not a smear campaign, and this isn't a democracy. All this bull**** about "democracy" is a cop out. its a privately owned forum. You should realize that at some point, and appreciate the lengths that this forum goes to to allow people to express opinions, instead of chastising it for some minor inconviences to your demands. Most forums don't tolerate most of what we do, and usually don't even have a process of infraction. They just send the sht packing as soon as they become disruptive. But please continue your smear campaign against this site.
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I don't have a smear campaign against this site. I have legitimate grievances and you know what they are, so stop pretending that I have some kind of vendetta. That is your own distortion of reality. I am not making demands; I am saying there are changes I want to see before I will donate. There is a big difference. I am not obligated to donate to be here, this is not a pay site, however if DP wants to see my money, some things will have to improve that haven't.

I love how when someone shows disagreement or doesn't chime in with the chorus, people like you come in to pile on and misrepresent them. You can paint white as black all you want, but it will never be true.
 
vauge said:
And they very much are respected and appreciated, but we do not have to agree with you wishing ill will toward what we have worked hard for. If you do not wish to contribute. Don't. We've made it this far without you... :)
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I don't wish ill will toward the forum. That is yet another misrepresentation and I am saddened to see you of all people saying it. I think I already explained to Catz my intentions. I obviously want to be here and want this forum to succeed, but I believe changes to the power structure and the way power is used needs to change. Why would I donate money if it will only reinforce that status quo?

As long as you need our money to maintain this site, what the membership says kind of matters.

vauge said:
Seriously, no one is twisting your arm, no need to try and break others'.

Thanks for understanding.
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I think I understand you way better than you are trying to understand me right now. I am not trying to break anyone's arm. All I did was say that I am not giving the forum 1 cent until the changes I want to see happen. That is me, as a consumer, making a consumer choice. Sorry that me speaking up about it makes you uncomfortable, but supposedly these boards have free speech so oh well.

Sorry if I am undermining your donation drive, but it would be irresponsible of me to not at least let you know why I refuse to donate. I am not alone in that either. And look at what this has turned into... a big debate about what I meant and more drama. You guys just can't help yourselves sometimes.
 
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I think we get it now.
 
Orion said:
I think I understand you way better than you are trying to understand me right now. I am not trying to break anyone's arm. All I did was say that I am not giving the forum 1 cent until the changes I want to see happen. That is me, as a consumer, making a consumer choice. Sorry that me speaking up about it makes you uncomfortable, but supposedly these boards have free speech so oh well.

Sorry if I am undermining your donation drive, but it would be irresponsible of me to not at least let you know why I refuse to donate. I am not alone in that either. And look at what this has turned into... a big debate about what I meant and more drama. You guys just can't help yourselves sometimes.
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I do understand. You are not undermining anything. This isn't a "drive". It is a simple request asking for assistance.

You seem to refuse to accept the fact that others also have the liberty to not agree with you. And that is ok, we are here for disagreements. This thread however, is not about debating the merits of donating for this forum.

Please be reasonable and start your own thread, report posts, use the contact us button or PM a mod if you have concerns that you feel need to be addressed. All I am asking is that you treat this thread with the same respect and decorum I have afforded you.

Thanks again for your time.
 
vauge said:
You seem to refuse to accept the fact that others also have the liberty to not agree with you. And that is ok, we are here for disagreements. This thread however, is not about debating the merits of donating for this forum.
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That's not true. On page two, my reply to MaggieD clearly states: "If you think this site deserves your money, then donate." I am encouraging everyone to make their own choice, and am simply explaining why I do not want to donate. The entire "debate" that has come after that has been a result of people either misinterpreting or misrepresenting me, or accusing me of doing something I am not.

vauge said:
Please be reasonable and start your own thread, report posts, use the contact us button or PM a mod if you have concerns that you feel need to be addressed. All I am asking is that you treat this thread with the same respect and decorum I have afforded you.
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It was never my intention to start a huge discussion and I feel that I have been respectful. I posted one comment and then a DM got involved, followed by former mods, then yourself. I do not really wish to continue talking about it anymore. If you or anyone else does, then please shoot me a PM. Thanks.
 
Wow! I wondered what was going on when I kept seeing the bar move. Good job, everyone!
 
Orion said:
Sorry if I am undermining your donation drive, but it would be irresponsible of me to not at least let you know why I refuse to donate. I am not alone in that either. And look at what this has turned into... a big debate about what I meant and more drama. You guys just can't help yourselves sometimes.
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Seems like you are the one that can't let it go Orion. You initiated this whole commentary with your snide "I'm not donating until this site changes" line. You invited this conversation and now that it turns against you, you once again play the "I'm being victimized here card". If you can't handle the rebuttal to your comments, maybe you shouldn't comment in the first place.
 
WI Crippler said:
Seems like you are the one that can't let it go Orion. You initiated this whole commentary with your snide "I'm not donating until this site changes" line. You invited this conversation and now that it turns against you, you once again play the "I'm being victimized here card". If you can't handle the rebuttal to your comments, maybe you shouldn't comment in the first place.
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vauge gave the only answer that mattered. You can stop anytime now.
 
StandUpChuck said:
I'd say we should thank Orion. I bet he singlehandedly raised $187.50 in this thread. :cheers:

Well done, everyone!
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Only question now is...will it be sustainable month to month. :shrug:
 
Im unemployed and my unemployment is ending the end of this month soooooo.....
Im trying to buy and sell cars to make some money in the mean time
 
jallman said:
Catz, basically, you are doing that doublethink thing the staff does here: you present that Orion can't possibly have any other motive than to cause problems because he's in opposition to certain things he sees. That's smearing him. He can care about the forum and not particularly care about some of the systemic problems in the forum. You're being dishonest and disingenuous when you try to spin it otherwise.
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Or, I could suggest that that most of us don't feel that the forum has major problems, and don't want to fix something that largely isn't broken.
 
I think that's an option that should now be available in your Control Panel.
 
I have been transformed.....
 
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