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Need new headphones

Same "but" I like to use the better cables none the less. It looks better and just makes me feel better.

I can see having the 'insurance' benefit, whether speaker cabling, interconnects, or headphone cabling. And I must admit in terms of headphones, there the physical ruggedness & aesthetics.

But I'm telling ya', in terms of pure aesthetics nothing compares to the glow of tubes in a darkened room! :p
 
I use my headphones in different rooms, I am a minimalist. I keep the signal pathway simple.



As I mentioned earlier I very seldom use headphones so I don't have a major investment in top of the line ones. Still, I own 5 or 6. The ones on my radar are the Focal Stellia but I doubt I'll pull the trigger.

I have yet to audition any Focals, because I'm not actively ready to buy. Also, I got into the hobby when there was much general hesitancy to break-through the $600 price point. But in the recent two to three years or so,, that has changed as can be seen by the abundance of readily purchased cans priced in excess of $1K.

But Focal is very much on my list. I want to audition the 'Clear'.



Not familiar, besides Oppa having a good rep.

But balanced? Are you running balanced cans? That's something I have yet to broach.

I am a sold state guy and don't use EQ either. I am a purist, minimalist.

I prefer EQ.

With a speaker system, I can correct for the speaker and most importantly - the room!

And especially with headphones, which are even more limited by physics, I can correct for their sonic peculiarities (which often are many!)

But straight-up, I know some of my correction is for the peculiar properties of my ears. All our ears are unique, and they change and deteriorate over time. I know I'm feeling the effects of those earlier years in garage bands and neighborhood bar jams!


I almost got myself a tube headphone amp simply because they look so cool. I just anymore audio equipment. Of course, that has never stopped me before.
I have some funny stories in this regard. Heck, even my audio guy told me I did not need the power amps I bough. I told him, it was not a need, it was a want. Audio can be like that, at least for me.

I understand where you're coming from, and if I were you I'd be extremely warry of tubes - then.

Long-gone out-of-production NOS (New Old Stock) tubes are generally - but not always - superior to new (current) production tubes. And there's only so many (so few!) of them left.

The tube market has exploded, and prices are through the roof - with seemingly no end in sight! It's become a 'collectors' market, with commercial sellers & individuals all fighting over a finite supply dwindling in availability. The buyers are often well-heeled, and they're bidding accordingly. Remember, the tubes often perceived as best are the old tubes from just before & after the War (WW-II). So, it's becoming like collecting rare wine, coins, or stamps. Except tubes eventually go bad or burn out. So, the supply is always dwindling!

Each tube type, not to speak of individual specimens, does indeed have their own unique sonic qualities though. The sonic differences between stock & replacement tubes is, to my ears, often huge. My amps, particularly my Dark Voice, would never give me the satisfaction I enjoy if I left in the stock tubes.


I did that for a long time but I have kinda settled in now.

99.9% of my listening is with floor standing speakers.

Is your audio hobby mostly confided to Headphones?

These days, I'm exclusively headphones. I touched on this in my other post to you.
 
But I'm telling ya', in terms of pure aesthetics nothing compares to the glow of tubes in a darkened room! :p

No doubt tubes look cool. A few years back I almost bought a headphone amp just because the tubs looked so cool.

I have much audio, I have nothing tube.
 
Ah, he's already bought!
Oh well, some additional 'food for thought' maybe . . .
(still think CS might be a good contributor)

Well that was a lot of work and deserves commendation regardless.
 
But balanced? Are you running balanced cans? That's something I have yet to broach.

I did try them balanced but as I expected it did nothing. The runs are just not long enough in home audio to need balanced. I have a pair of subs run balanced on
one of my systems.

With a speaker system, I can correct for the speaker and most importantly - the room!

Room correct is good to use but I don't bother. EQ, never. Tubes and EQ to me is just coloring the music, as I said, I am a purist and minimal.


Because of this thread I have broken out my headphones. I was right, I have 5 pair.

I also strted to shop headphones again. (I so don't need them)

I was thinking of Electrostatics or another Planer Magnetic. So now it's the Focal I mentioned, now at the back of the line, Audeze LCD 3 or Stax SR-007 MK2.

You mentioned in one of your posts that you felt power was important. How so? How would you say it benefits the speakers? (other than increased volume if desired and usable by the speaker)

Then, if you have minute, look at the STAX headphone, just how much power do they need? What is the most reasonably price amp that could power them in your opinion?

How about the Audeze ? They claim these too need power but I have no issues no matter where I plug in my HiFI Man and they are also Planer Magnetic.

Tell me about music, you enjoy Jordi Savall? Best concert I ever saw was he at Carnegie Hall.
 
[Part #1]

I took some time to get to his, because it deserved an involved reply. Hope you don't mind?

I am a purist and minimal.

I'll try not to go into this too deeply, because it eventually devolves into a philosophical discussion.

But your transducers, whether they be speaker cones, or headphone drivers, are atrociously coloured & inaccurate! Take a look at the frequency & amplitude plots of your speakers & cans. You'll be shocked, literally shocked, if you've never looked at these plots!

(I highly suspect you do use plots - no insult intended).

So, you're already listening to highly coloured audio already! And that's just with the output transducer! Then, there's another highly coloured transducer on the content creation side - i.e, a 'mic'. And we haven't even started on quantization effects & errors in digital conversion and production, or the further inaccuracies of the signal path in analog production!

Now, I can see the quest for the mythical 'straight wire with gain', as it applies to amplification and the amp signal path. That would be saying you want to hear exactly what was the end-result of the transduction and other effects of the creation process, you want to accurately amplifying it, and then send it on to the output transducer to do what it sees fit. I get that theory, that desire, even though I don't necessarily subscribe to it.

I started playing electric guitar at 10 y.o. By 14, I had my first professional level guitar, and my first professional grade (tube) amp. My burgeoning love of music sent me on a quest to learn audio & electronics. Through studying electronics I came to appreciate concepts like the 'straight wire with gain', and also came to appreciate technical specs. But through it all, having started in music before I understood a shred of electronics, I always let my ears (and heart & soul) lead me. My sole listening criteria is, 'Do I like the sound? And that often is reflected in, 'Does it sound real?' But it also can be, 'Does it sound 'enjoyable'? And, those guiding (driving?) principles have never left me! 'Till today!

Anyway, in essence we're speaking here of the Objectivist-Subjectivist audio debate. It's as old as audio itself, and is the paramount perennial audio discussion. And yes, eventually it becomes philosophical. And, it never seems to get resolved or agreed upon.

If you're interested in these types of discussion, each school of thought is well-represented at the extremes by the following forums:

- SBAF (Super Best Audio Friends) - Subjectivist

- ASR (Audio Science Review) - Objectivist

I hope I didn't drag you down a rabbit-hole here . . .

Because of this thread I have broken out my headphones. I was right, I have 5 pair.

I also strted to shop headphones again. (I so don't need them)

I was thinking of Electrostatics or another Planer Magnetic. So now it's the Focal I mentioned, now at the back of the line, Audeze LCD 3 or Stax SR-007 MK2.

You mentioned in one of your posts that you felt power was important. How so?

Power is important in headphones, as it is in speakers, because firstly you need to have adequate power to reproduce the audio w/o distortion, but also to have adequate 'headroom'. Headroom refers to excess capacity from nominal use, and basically allows for more impact & dynamic transients. It allows for better dynamic impact.

This (headroom) doesn't just refer to the raw power, but the ability to produce transients quickly.

Besides having excess power in general rating, two of the technical specs (among others) that affect these properties are known as, 'damping factor' & 'slew rate'.

Damping is essentially how well the amp can control the transducer. When we speak of a 'husky' amp that produces a tight bass, we're likely speaking of good damping (along with adequate reserve power - i.e. headroom).

Slew Rate is essentially how fast your equipment can cause a rise or fall in the signal voltage. Obviously, the ability to change voltage quickly means your equipment can more accurately follow a signal.

As to 'headroom' itself, it is not just raw power in spec terms, but is your amp's ability to deliver it in real terms. It starts at your amp's input transformer, where everything in the amp gets its power. That's why the best & most powerful amps with conventual transformers (iron core) are so hulking heavy! It's the transformer(s)!

[Con't]
 
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[Part #2]

Then, if you have minute, look at the STAX headphone, just how much power do they need? What is the most reasonably price amp that could power them in your opinion?

How about the Audeze ? They claim these too need power but I have no issues no matter where I plug in my HiFI Man and they are also Planer Magnetic.

Tell me about music, you enjoy Jordi Savall? Best concert I ever saw was he at Carnegie Hall.

Not being familiar with or having had any of the above cans, I'll consider scoping them out when I get a chance, and maybe touch on my musical tastes too. But, not in this post.

Unfortunately, I have never had electrostatics or planers. My cans are all conventional drivers, though planers are on my list to try.

But I will say this:

It's not enough to simply have 'enough' raw power to drive a set of cans to adequate volume. The can's full qualities will be best exhibited by an amp dependent upon the technical qualities I described in my paragraphs earlier, along with a bunch of other qualities. But you can't necessarily adequately evaluate the amps, especially headphone amps, by reading the specs. You just have to listen to them. There's just no substitute. And also sadly, specs are inflated or measured differently among manufacturers. I'm sure you're aware of the different type power ratings (RMS, Peak, etc.). Well, even those are measured differently within their type! Manufactures play plenty of games!

--

Hope you made it through all this!

[End]
 
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I'll try not to go into this too deeply, because it eventually devolves into a philosophical discussion.

But your transducers, whether they be speaker cones, or headphone drivers, are atrociously coloured & inaccurate! Take a look at the frequency & amplitude plots of your speakers & cans. You'll be shocked, literally shocked, if you've never looked at these plots!

I have been an audio enthusiast for 50 years, I have learned a bit. I simply like picking other's brains on the subject. ;)
You know Alan Markoff? (he did the sound for Woodstock 1969) He designed my main system in my office we have had discussions like this.

I can see the quest for the mythical 'straight wire with gain'

It is as appealing to me aesthetically as it is in it's audio excellence. I said previous, I use better cables with no expectation of enhanced sound. Simple clean lines mean much outside of audio expectations.
When you buy a good pair of speakers why would you then want to color that sound? Do not misunderstand, I respect anyone's preferences in how they prefer their music to sound or how they care to color it but what is color?

I have never had electrostatics or planers. My cans are all conventional drivers, though planers are on my list to try.

My relatively cheap HE-500's may be my favorite. (planer magnetic) You do need to get a pair of planer/magnetics.

you can't necessarily adequately evaluate the amps, especially headphone amps, by reading the specs. You just have to listen to them.


I am a straight numbers guy. With all the money I have spent, (and I have more invested in my audio than any other possession less my home) I always look to 3 things, functionality (for my needs), numbers and aesthetics. I do not even audition equipment anymore.

Listening is flawed as hearing memory is but a few seconds. Then you have the problem of listening level matched. To further complicate your method are room influences on the music.

Thanks for the reply, I could talk audio all day (in fact, I often do) although we are a bit on different pages. I guess that is why I am interested in what you have to say, I can't lean from people who are the same as I.

I'd love even more discussing music. Anything you share I'll appreciate, consume and offer my perspective.

Peace
 
My relatively cheap HE-500's may be my favorite. (planer magnetic) You do need to get a pair of planer/magnetics.
I could not agree more. In my younger days I bought, enjoyed then sold my Stax 009s which I now deeply regret. However, I was later lucky to get an Oppo PM-1 and PM-3 (love them both!) and wish Oppo hadn't exited the hifi space given their clear talent for it. PMs have for me an amazing soundscape that's awesome for electronic music IMO.
 
I could not agree more. In my younger days I bought, enjoyed then sold my Stax 009s which I now deeply regret. However, I was later lucky to get an Oppo PM-1 and PM-3 (love them both!) and wish Oppo hadn't exited the hifi space given their clear talent for it. PMs have for me an amazing soundscape that's awesome for electronic music IMO.

That was heartbreaking.

I have several of their products. I love the OPPO HA 1 and still use the the HD 105. I was gonna buy the 205 but because they were going away, I did not.
 
That was heartbreaking.

I have several of their products. I love the OPPO HA 1 and still use the the HD 105. I was gonna buy the 205 but because they were going away, I did not.
I bought the UDP-205 when they were taking orders for the final production run and have zero regrets. I use it as my source, DAC and headphone amp for my Senn HD650 and HD700 ever since my old Benchmark DAC1 died. I wish I had gotten a HA-1 - how is it?
 
I bought the UDP-205 when they were taking orders for the final production run and have zero regrets.

Yes, I too added my Email to the list but when I got the Email that I would be allowed to buy one I decided against it. Do I regret it, yes, a bit. No other machine does what it does. Still.

I wish I had gotten a HA-1 how is it?

HA1, great. The limited use it because I seldom use my headphones. I did not buy it as a preamp. Plus now, I want WIFI connections not wires and certainly not Bluetooth.

To bad about your Benchmark, their DAC's are as good as it gets. Yes I know you can spend $20,000 or more on a Dac but you won't hear anything better in a double blind.
 
After doing the research, I found that the main players in this price class are the Sony WH1000XM4, Bowers & Wilkins PX7, Sennheiser Momentum 3, and the Bose NC 700.

The Sennheiser is reported to have frustratingly little play time, which would be a problem for me because I'd need a bare minimum of 8 hours, and the Bose is outside my spending comfort zone. Between the Sony and the B&W, the latter has the better build quality, but Sony has better sound and comfort.

Finally, the Sony's were a whopping $72 off if I ordered them from Walmart, which I did, so that seems to settle that.

I still want to know what @Chomsky says, though.
Did you get them yet?
Btw, I kinda timed the battery usage. It is, after ?2 years of usage, about 12 hrs on a charge.
 
@phoenix2020

What genre of music is your main interest?
Unfortunately, crappily mastered 1980s electronic fare (think New Order and the like) is my main interest, and it most definitely does not bring out the best in any of my audio gear :) But, for more critical listening, classical (mostly solo pianists but orchestral as well).
 
[PART 1]

Picking right up, where we left off . . . :)

(hope you don't mind this type of several days apart discussion)


I have been an audio enthusiast for 50 years, I have learned a bit. I simply like picking other's brains on the subject. ;)
Hah! Looks like I've been preaching to the choir!

You know Alan Markoff? (he did the sound for Woodstock 1969) He designed my main system in my office we have had discussions like this.

I bet those discussions were phenomenal. Even in quantitative technical discussion, higher level discussion by knowledgeable people still often ends-up philosophical! Ex: Audio Objectivism-Subjectivism.


It is as appealing to me aesthetically as it is in it's audio excellence. I said previous, I use better cables with no expectation of enhanced sound. Simple clean lines mean much outside of audio expectations.
When you buy a good pair of speakers why would you then want to color that sound? Do not misunderstand, I respect anyone's preferences in how they prefer their music to sound or how they care to color it but what is color?

Well, with tubes it's not just adding 'colour'. For me, tubes (with headphones) add a type of holographic spaciousness, along with a sonic character that just seems more 'organic to me.


My relatively cheap HE-500's may be my favorite. (planer magnetic) You do need to get a pair of planer/magnetics.

Yes. Planers are on my to do list.

When it happens, it will be interesting to see if I prefer tube or solid state amping? All my experience has been with conventional drivers. Yet my cursory reading leads me to believe planers do best on solid state amps.

'Synergy' between headphones & headphone amps isn't always easy to predict. But I'm a firm believer in it.


I am a straight numbers guy. With all the money I have spent, (and I have more invested in my audio than any other possession less my home) I always look to 3 things, functionality (for my needs), numbers and aesthetics. I do not even audition equipment anymore.

Actually, I'm a numbers guy too - even in audio!

There's certain specs, like 'signal to noise' for example, that are clearly apparent in the listening experience.

Other specs though, not so much. But in the end, I believe no specs can fully define the listening experience. It just cannot be done. Sound waves are an analog phenomena, and our ears are analog receptors. There are not enough 'specs', no digital representations, that can fully describe the entire breadth of the analog sound experience. It's just too complex. Sound is not discrete. It's infinitely analog. Which is why Neil Young hated the transition from LP's to CD's! Despite the killer S/N & Dynamic Range!

1] Listening is flawed as hearing memory is but a few seconds 2] Then you have the problem of listening level matched. 3] To further complicate your method are room influences on the music.
*numbers added

All very true! You are 100% in all three important facets here.

1] It's not enough to do quick A/B's. We have to live with out equipment for awhile. Why? Because our ears & minds are adaptive!

If I didn't live with my HD650's for awhile, I would never have bought them! They seemed flat, and with not enough 'pop'! In fact, I've often made some initial impressions by doing A/B's, only to find my impressions changed after long-term listening!

2] That's why God gave us dB & RMS Power meters! :p

3] Absolutely! Room acoustics cannot be stressed enough!



Thanks for the reply, I could talk audio all day (in fact, I often do) although we are a bit on different pages. I guess that is why I am interested in what you have to say, I can't lean from people who are the same as I.

Ditto! Like I said, I'm indeed a numbers guy in virtually everything I do, including two f my three careers I've had through life. I pride myself on being a numbers guy! But with music & sound, after I give the numbers their initial due credence, I let my ears make the final decision. Do I enjoy what I' hearing? That's my ultimate criteria, the final barometer.

And I believe part of my philosophy here, is due to my creating music at a relatively young age. The only test for me back then was, 'Does it sound good'? And I believe that is still the criteria for those that create art. And a little of that from my old life steadfastly stuck with me.

[CON'T]
 
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[CON'T PART 2]

I'd love even more discussing music. Anything you share I'll appreciate, consume and offer my perspective.

Peace

Thanks!

It would be my pleasure! 🍻

My tastes are pretty wide. I tend to gravitate to older Jazz and Classical these days - with the classical mainly strings & piano - along with occasional choral. But, I cut my teeth on Blues and R & B. And, I've always been a sucker for soul and believe it or not - Torch Singers! Plus, I was exposed to a lot of Big Band by my pop. Also, I especially like live recordings. 'Live' just sounds 'right' to me!

Here's an album I had from the late 70's that seems to have a bit of everything - jazz, strings, and bit of rock of sorts. Actually, it's kind of jazz-pop, as Chuck was running-up the pop charts at the time. It's definitely not 'old jazz', and even has some features of my pop's beloved Big Band groups!

So here's one of my favorite tracks off of "Chuck Mangione Live at the Hollywood Bowl". The entire album kicks ass, IMHO!




Here's another one of my favorite jazz cuts, that's not really 'old jazz' either, but 'old enough' - 'cuz the album has 'Take Five'! It's from "Dave Bruebeck Live at Concord (Concord on a Summer Night).

 
Unfortunately, crappily mastered 1980s electronic fare (think New Order and the like) is my main interest, and it most definitely does not bring out the best in any of my audio gear :) But, for more critical listening, classical (mostly solo pianists but orchestral as well).

Apparently, in audio reproduction terms, piano keys striking attack is supposed to be the ultimate test of transients. Those higher level keys have a hella' sharp attack!
 
[CON'T Part 3]

3] To further complicate your method are room influences on the music.

I just realized I didn't expound on this point as I intended, and the post edit period just ended.

So, here we go:

In my last year of H.S., I got invited to a party in a huge house of a family member's girlfriend from wealthy parents. Since I was family, I arrived early before the other party goers., and there only were several of us in the large house. The house was brand new, and just getting furnished. The huge place was relatively empty of furnishings. As I entered the house, they were playing the long intro to Pink Floyd's "Shine on You Crazy Diamond". As I further took-off my coat and started moving through the room, the intro had moved into David Gilmore's famous four staccato Strat notes - Duh-Duh-Duh-DUHH.



Those four notes rang-out & resonated off the hard unadorned walls of the huge hard room, that was sparingly furnished. The house was of the new wide-open 70's 'California' style'. The ceilings were high, the stairs were expose slabs of thin flat stone, suspended by thin minimalistic metal rails. In fact, everything in the place was wide-open, minimalistic, hard, thin, and even the very little furniture in the place was minimalistic. There were few walls, bedsides the exterior walls. And their several partial walls were only partially delineating the different living areas - including the bedrooms. There were no doors, because there were essentially no 'rooms'! Everything was (purposefully) exposed! You could pretty much see & hear across the entire house, up & down. The entire house was created & being furnished to this 'motif', as well. Their architect created the family's wishes, and that's what they wanted, and that's what they got & were furnishing in the same style! Lots of nothing'!

Given the power and clear bell-like tone & amazing resonance of Gilmore's expressive well spaced notes, I just had to see that sound system in the other 'space' (room?) further in the house! Man, did those notes sing across the spaces! And when I finally got to the audio system? It . . . was . . . nothing special! Nothing special at all.

It was simply a case of the room acoustics being in perfect resonance with Gilmore notes at the time. They were just bouncing off the hard surfaces, resonating to the room dimensions & acoustics I'd like to think Paul Klipsch would have thought this house was the ultimate Klipsch-Horn!

Anyway, early lesson learned on room acoustics. I generally prefer livelier rooms, but only to the point they are 'undead'. Too lively is bad news, but nobody likes a flat room either. And there's nothing worse than a room with bass resonance. In fact, there's nothing (in my mind) worse than bass resonance of any kind! Yuck!

Anyway, that's my story & I'm sticking to it!
 
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After doing the research, I found that the main players in this price class are the Sony WH1000XM4, Bowers & Wilkins PX7, Sennheiser Momentum 3, and the Bose NC 700.

The Sennheiser is reported to have frustratingly little play time, which would be a problem for me because I'd need a bare minimum of 8 hours, and the Bose is outside my spending comfort zone. Between the Sony and the B&W, the latter has the better build quality, but Sony has better sound and comfort.

Finally, the Sony's were a whopping $72 off if I ordered them from Walmart, which I did, so that seems to settle that.

I still want to know what @Chomsky says, though.
I need new headphones as well. cordless is nice but not mandatory, same thing for me cranking out Youtube rock videos at night
 
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