Need new headphones

[Cardinal]

They will be great, you will love them!

I am wildly eclectic in my listening. Just yesterday I put together a five hour play list of popular songs based in the 1930's.
Not being familiar with electronica, what can you recommend?

I firmly believe that there is good music and there is great music but there is no bad music.

Enjoy the new headphones, I am excited for you!

I listen to DJ's who create full sets. There's one you can find on youtube and soundcloud called "Monk On Acid." He's made an absolutely insane number of sets that he calls A Trippy Trip to Pluto #1, A Trippy Trip to Pluto #8," etc. He's all over the place, but I love roughly half his stuff.

There's also Woob, Carbon Based Lifeforms, AuroraX, and Therapist.

It's really hard to cold-suggest electronica though because the range of styles is extremely diverse. For example, one sub-genre is trance, and even within that sub-genre there's like a dozen sub-sub-genres, most of which I hate. If you're new to electronica and are interested, you just have to feel your way through to see what jibes with you.

Here's one to get you started, though.

 

[Chomsky]

@Chomsky is our own resident audiophile, let's get his thoughts

Very cool that we have someone here into music/audio!

I still want to know what @Chomsky says, though.

Wow! Thank you guys so much for the vote of confidence!

But unfortunately, I'm afraid I'm going to let you down - I'm not into wireless audio!

My thing is the 'better valued' ($300-$600) segment of cabled 'audiophile' headphones, usually run through tube amplification.

Yeah - tubes & cables is kind of a 'purist' stance. But, I know what sounds good to me and what I like! I guess it started with my playing a Strat through an old Vox tube head as a kid, and I just fell in love with the tube sound.

Also, the bulk of my listening is Classical, then Jazz, then everything else. So my favorite headphones (Sennheiser HD650), are awesome for Classical, Jazz, and Choral/Vocal, but might be considered deficient in bass & overall 'pop' by many - especially when listening to other genres.

Consequently, I have multiple headphones and amps to mix & match for different sounds & genres of music. I have all three amp topologies at my disposal (tube/hybrid/solid-state), and all three headphone types (open, semi-open, closed). Each piece of gear has its own sound signature, and I picked individual pieces of gear that showcased the differences in their type.

I enjoy mixing & matching and pairing gear to musical genres and my moods.

I won't further bore you with my travails of tube swapping, op-amp changing, capacitor adding, or other equipment modifications! They have been many!

--

But to you Cardinal, the best I can say is to buy from Amazon Prime - if possible. There's really no substitute for listening to a set of phones, before pulling the trigger for good. I'm fortunate I have (higher-end) audio places by me that let me demo headphones. Do you have that? Would that be acceptable to you, given the Covid situation? If not, them Amazon Prime or a big-box store with liberal return privilege's is the way to go!

Also, don't over-look the NYC '47th St.' mail-order houses like BHPhoto or Adorama, as they now do standard returns. But I'd only go this route last, and only after absolutely ascertaining your return privilege's on your specific product. My experience with them is they will accept returns, but not always extremely happily. They do not have the same awesome seemingly endless unlimited return privileges as Prime, so I usually go with Prime - even if paying more. I figure the slightly high cost is a fair tariff for my being able to properly audition and easily return a product, if need be. Privileges' have their costs!

Additionally, many of the 47th St. type houses elsewhere in the country sell directly through Amazon, sometimes even offering 'Prime Shipping'. By ordering through Amazon, even a non-Amazon seller will deliver a higher and easier level of return privilege due to Amazon's standards. But most importantly, Amazon - quickly via their chat function - will rectify a problem situation. EBay will also do the same (mediate), for their sellers that offer return privileges. But you'll need to take due care in choosing a vendor and vetting the return privileges.

--

You indicated you have no 'back' preference types (closed/open). You also indicated you listen to Electronica, and like solid bass. Each headphone has its own strengths & sound signature, but in general closed-back types provide stronger & deeper bass, particularly in relation to the price point. Open-back generally provide a more natural & 'airy' sound, with a more accurate and nuanced bass that is not as prominent nor deep. You may want to keep that in mind.

Also, I run my headphones through a (hardware) equalizer. That way I can correct and tailor my frequency response to what I prefer. For example, I very slightly increase the bass in my Senns, which adds some weight that many believe Senns lack. I also add a touch of treble, to brighten them up a bit. A little EQ can go a long way in tailoring a set of headphones to your liking. However, I don't know how you're sourcing your signal & if you can squeeze one into your signal path.

Eschewing hardware EQ, there's a plethora of software EQ programs & apps for computers and cell phones out there. I strongly recommend having the ability to EQ. It can make a world of difference. And it may be as simple as downloading an app to your phone or computer, if that's your source.

Hope this helps, buddy. Hit me up, if you want.

--

@Checkerboard Strangler might be a good guy to have in this thread.

 

[Chomsky]

Ah, he's already bought!

Oh well, some additional 'food for thought' maybe . . .

(still think CS might be a good contributor)

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Ah, he's already bought!

Oh well, some additional 'food for thought' maybe . . .

(still think CS might be a good contributor)

I have a pair of wireless headphones for late night TV so as not to keep the wife up.
They're..."Ehh, so so but they were only 49 bucks. I can hear the TV, so that's all that matters.

My studio cans are the standard of the industry, Sony MDR-7502 and it's over twenty-five years old and still sounding perfect.
They're quite indestructible, too.

 

[Chomsky]

I look forward to what he has to say. The closest I ever came to audiophile headphones were the Sennheiser hd580. The mids and highs were gorgeous but there was essentially zero bass. Also, the cord is problematic.

Not going to help you, but I'll throw my experience out there as a frame of reference:

I've listened to, the HD580. I've owned the HD600's & HD650's.

The HD580's are more like the HD600's, and yes both are pretty sorely lacking in bass. The HD650's do correct some of that.

But where the HD650's come alive, in my opinion, is when well amped! They really need an amp to shine. With a good amp & and a little EQ, I find them fantastic for my genres, and even most genres, including having adequate bass. But for reference, I strongly prefer a textured and well defined 'organic' bass. Think live cello music, or an acoustic jazz combo with an upright bass. I detest those pillow-like undefined deep 'thuds'. However, that type of sonic experience may be part of your repertoire? I don't know Electronica, barring that I occasionally stumble across.

 

[Chomsky]

I have a pair of wireless headphones for late night TV so as not to keep the wife up.
They're..."Ehh, so so but they were only 49 bucks. I can hear the TV, so that's all that matters.

My studio cans are the standard of the industry, Sony MDR-7502 and it's over twenty-five years old and still sounding perfect.
They're quite indestructible, too.

View attachment 67349582

For TV in bed with my wife, I use a pair of cabled Senn HD280's. Not audiophile quality, but I still run them through my stack so I amp & EQ them, which always helps. They get panned a lot by audiophiles, and deservedly so, but they're cheap enough, well built, rugged, and have good sound isolation. That's all I ever use them for. But for that task, they work pretty well.

I'm not familiar with the MDR-7502. I did like AKG's for a studio environment, even though for me that's been a very long time ago! AKG have a distinctive sound signature, though. And while I've yet to own a pair, I've seen a fair amount of Beyers in recording environments back in the day.

You'll probable get some memories from this: My first pair of headphones were the old Koss 'Pro-49A'! It was quite the experience for it's time, out of a Marantz receiver listening to my Yes albums!

 

[noonereal]

Wow! Thank you guys so much for the vote of confidence!

But unfortunately, I'm afraid I'm going to let you down - I'm not into wireless audio!

My thing is the 'better valued' ($300-$600) segment of cabled 'audiophile' headphones, usually run through tube amplification.

Yeah - tubes & cables is kind of a 'purist' stance. But, I know what sounds good to me and what I like! I guess it started with my playing a Strat through an old Vox tube head as a kid, and I just fell in love with the tube sound.

Also, the bulk of my listening is Classical, then Jazz, then everything else. So my favorite headphones (Sennheiser HD650), are awesome for Classical, Jazz, and Choral/Vocal, but might be considered deficient in bass & overall 'pop' by many - especially when listening to other genres.

Consequently, I have multiple headphones and amps to mix & match for different sounds & genres of music. I have all three amp topologies at my disposal (tube/hybrid/solid-state), and all three headphone types (open, semi-open, closed). Each piece of gear has its own sound signature, and I picked individual pieces of gear that showcased the differences in their type.

I enjoy mixing & matching and pairing gear to musical genres and my moods.

I won't further bore you with my travails of tube swapping, op-amp changing, capacitor adding, or other equipment modifications! They have been many!

--

But to you Cardinal, the best I can say is to buy from Amazon Prime - if possible. There's really no substitute for listening to a set of phones, before pulling the trigger for good. I'm fortunate I have (higher-end) audio places by me that let me demo headphones. Do you have that? Would that be acceptable to you, given the Covid situation? If not, them Amazon Prime or a big-box store with liberal return privilege's is the way to go!

Also, don't over-look the NYC '47th St.' mail-order houses like BHPhoto or Adorama, as they now do standard returns. But I'd only go this route last, and only after absolutely ascertaining your return privilege's on your specific product. My experience with them is they will accept returns, but not always extremely happily. They do not have the same awesome seemingly endless unlimited return privileges as Prime, so I usually go with Prime - even if paying more. I figure the slightly high cost is a fair tariff for my being able to properly audition and easily return a product, if need be. Privileges' have their costs!

Additionally, many of the 47th St. type houses elsewhere in the country sell directly through Amazon, sometimes even offering 'Prime Shipping'. By ordering through Amazon, even a non-Amazon seller will deliver a higher and easier level of return privilege due to Amazon's standards. But most importantly, Amazon - quickly via their chat function - will rectify a problem situation. EBay will also do the same (mediate), for their sellers that offer return privileges. But you'll need to take due care in choosing a vendor and vetting the return privileges.

--

You indicated you have no 'back' preference types (closed/open). You also indicated you listen to Electronica, and like solid bass. Each headphone has its own strengths & sound signature, but in general closed-back types provide stronger & deeper bass, particularly in relation to the price point. Open-back generally provide a more natural & 'airy' sound, with a more accurate and nuanced bass that is not as prominent nor deep. You may want to keep that in mind.

Also, I run my headphones through a (hardware) equalizer. That way I can correct and tailor my frequency response to what I prefer. For example, I very slightly increase the bass in my Senns, which adds some weight that many believe Senns lack. I also add a touch of treble, to brighten them up a bit. A little EQ can go a long way in tailoring a set of headphones to your liking. However, I don't know how you're sourcing your signal & if you can squeeze one into your signal path.

Eschewing hardware EQ, there's a plethora of software EQ programs & apps for computers and cell phones out there. I strongly recommend having the ability to EQ. It can make a world of difference. And it may be as simple as downloading an app to your phone or computer, if that's your source.

Hope this helps, buddy. Hit me up, if you want.

--

@Checkerboard Strangler might be a good guy to have in this thread.

Careful with buying though Amazon.

I bought Velodyne's signature headphone a few years back, it was aweful. I then checked the Velodyne approved reseller site and the company using Amazon's platform was not listed. I was lucky, they took them back but no one will convince me that they were not counterfeit.

Lots of counterfeiting of electronics. Especially cables.

I bought a subwoofer from the company, it was pretty awsome.

 

[noonereal]

But where the HD650's come alive, in my opinion, is when well amped!

What headphone amp do you use?

 

[Chomsky]

Careful with buying though Amazon.

I bought Velodyne's signature headphone a few years back, it was aweful. I then checked the Velodyne approved reseller site and the company using Amazon's platform was not listed. I was lucky, they took them back but no one will convince me that they were not counterfeit.

Lots of counterfeiting of electronics. Especially cables.

I bought a subwoofer from the company, it was pretty awsome.

Interesting.

I can't say I've knowingly received any counterfeit products through Amazon.

I do buy a lot of cables, interconnects, and adaptors, through them. But since these days I use headphones, not speakers, I'm not that particular with my interconnects.

I don't buy into the ''audiophile cabling thing, beyond having a heavy-enough cable that's well built. The only exception might be to re-cable my HD650's one day as an experiment, but I'm in no hurry. Now as to tubes, well don't get me going! I love tubes & tube swapping! I also occasional lightly mod my stuff.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

For TV in bed with my wife, I use a pair of cabled Senn HD280's. Not audiophile quality, but I still run them through my stack so I amp & EQ them, which always helps. They get panned a lot by audiophiles, and deservedly so, but they're cheap enough, well built, rugged, and have good sound isolation. That's all I ever use them for. But for that task, they work pretty well.

I'm not familiar with the MDR-7502. I did like AKG's for a studio environment, even though for me that's been a very long time ago! AKG have a distinctive sound signature, though. And while I've yet to own a pair, I've seen a fair amount of Beyers in recording environments back in the day.

You'll probable get some memories from this: My first pair of headphones were the old Koss 'Pro-49A'! It was quite the experience for it's time, out of a Marantz receiver listening to my Yes albums!

I had a pair of Pro-49A's back in the day.
Oh wait, I ALSO had a pair of Telex studio headphones, too.
I can't remember the model # but they looked like what you'd see in a public school library, but they sounded pretty fantastic for the time.
PS: To whom it may concern, BEATS headphones suck ass.

Son AND daughter both bought BEATS, both tossed them in the trash about two years later, cheap garbage.

 

[noonereal]

You'll probable get some memories from this: My first pair of headphones were the old Koss 'Pro-49A'!

Same. Now thAt is going bAck

I had a Kenwood amp.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

My biggest problem with late night TV in bed is, I get caught up in what I am watching and sometimes I react.
WIFE: "Okay, you've got your ears on, but you're laughing, snorting and farting (Uh uh, that's the dog farting! - - always blame the dog!) and you're waking me up!"
---I usually get this face as a response

 

[Redress]

I listen to DJ's who create full sets. There's one you can find on youtube and soundcloud called "Monk On Acid." He's made an absolutely insane number of sets that he calls A Trippy Trip to Pluto #1, A Trippy Trip to Pluto #8," etc. He's all over the place, but I love roughly half his stuff.

There's also Woob, Carbon Based Lifeforms, AuroraX, and Therapist.

It's really hard to cold-suggest electronica though because the range of styles is extremely diverse. For example, one sub-genre is trance, and even within that sub-genre there's like a dozen sub-sub-genres, most of which I hate. If you're new to electronica and are interested, you just have to feel your way through to see what jibes with you.

Here's one to get you started, though.

Ever listen to Jean Michele Jarre? What us old folks listened to in our stoner days.

 

[Chomsky]

What headphone amp do you use?

I have several amps, depending on what I'm doing. And until just recently, I had my stack set-up so I could switch between amps via a switching array, not needing to change a single cable!

My stuff is what I would call, 'value oriented entry audiophile'. It's not 'purely value', but it's about finding the sweet spot in 'good value' terms. I find that level works well for me & my ears, in terms of headphone listening. Going into the 'entry point' for just entering 'audiophile' territory, just plain works for me. It gets me where I want to be, inexpensively. Consequently, my cans are in the 300-600 range - street price.

As to your question:

My mainstay amp, which I absolutely love - especially with my HD650's - is a Dark Voice 336SE. It's a bit picky with tubes, in terms of hum. But with good new or NOS tubes, I really like it. Unfortunately, good new & NOS tubes will set you back as much as the amp, but are critical (IMO) in getting the best performance out of it. In fact, I wouldn't run it with stock tubes, to be honest.

I've also got a Little Dot hybrid, and a Schiit solid state stack. My solid state amp is pretty much just a reference or for TV, as tubes are what I prefer.

The Little Dot though, has surprisingly been a fun little sleeper! It's highly moddable, and that has been part of my endearment to it. I've been swapping not just tubes, but also Op-Amps. Since the Little Dot is a hybrid, with a tube input stage but a solid-state out-put stage, it has some tube qualities - yet also a low output impedance. This means it can drive low impedance cans like Grado's or AKG's. The Dark Voice, being OTL, can only drive high impedance cans like the Senn's. But I do love what the Dark Voice, with good tubes, does for my Senns.

I think the Dark Voice - HD650 combo has great synergy, and is an awesome combo for the money in the Classical/Jazz/Vocal/Acoustic genres. Toss in some good tubes, and for a grand you're good.

For me it's not just about the sound, even though that's paramount. But, it's very much about the journey! I'm a tinkerer. I love experimenting, and modding. Be it audio, guitars, computers, cars, even my damn house! I just love experimenting with stuff, seeing how things change, and how I can make things 'better'. I like refining things.

 

[Cardinal]

But to you Cardinal, the best I can say is to buy from Amazon Prime - if possible. There's really no substitute for listening to a set of phones, before pulling the trigger for good. I'm fortunate I have (higher-end) audio places by me that let me demo headphones. Do you have that? Would that be acceptable to you, given the Covid situation? If not, them Amazon Prime or a big-box store with liberal return privilege's is the way to go!

Also, don't over-look the NYC '47th St.' mail-order houses like BHPhoto or Adorama, as they now do standard returns. But I'd only go this route last, and only after absolutely ascertaining your return privilege's on your specific product. My experience with them is they will accept returns, but not always extremely happily. They do not have the same awesome seemingly endless unlimited return privileges as Prime, so I usually go with Prime - even if paying more. I figure the slightly high cost is a fair tariff for my being able to properly audition and easily return a product, if need be. Privileges' have their costs!

Additionally, many of the 47th St. type houses elsewhere in the country sell directly through Amazon, sometimes even offering 'Prime Shipping'. By ordering through Amazon, even a non-Amazon seller will deliver a higher and easier level of return privilege due to Amazon's standards. But most importantly, Amazon - quickly via their chat function - will rectify a problem situation. EBay will also do the same (mediate), for their sellers that offer return privileges. But you'll need to take due care in choosing a vendor and vetting the return privileges.

--

I wouldn't go through anything but a big box store. Every time I buy from the manufacturer I end up with some giant headache. For example, I just bought some Logitech computer speakers from Logitech, immediately decided I made a mistake, and found that it was literally impossible to cancel the order over the internet. Even after calling customer support they still ended up shipping them to me. Eventually I got things sorted out, but geez, how annoying.

You indicated you have no 'back' preference types (closed/open). You also indicated you listen to Electronica, and like solid bass. Each headphone has its own strengths & sound signature, but in general closed-back types provide stronger & deeper bass, particularly in relation to the price point. Open-back generally provide a more natural & 'airy' sound, with a more accurate and nuanced bass that is not as prominent nor deep. You may want to keep that in mind.

Actually I didn't know that. I prefer open back because of the more natural sound, but I didn't know I was losing bass in the process.

Also, I run my headphones through a (hardware) equalizer. That way I can correct and tailor my frequency response to what I prefer. For example, I very slightly increase the bass in my Senns, which adds some weight that many believe Senns lack. I also add a touch of treble, to brighten them up a bit. A little EQ can go a long way in tailoring a set of headphones to your liking. However, I don't know how you're sourcing your signal & if you can squeeze one into your signal path.

Everything goes through my macbook. So if I'm streaming using something like soundcloud then I'm at the mercy of their settings. And obviously I can control the EQ through itunes. However, the Sony headphones I just ordered are said to have an app that you run the headphones through, so I guess that's how it'll be done. Some people in the reviews have complained about that, but that actually sounds beneficial to me, because then the EQ will be set regardless of the source, be it streaming or itunes.

Eschewing hardware EQ, there's a plethora of software EQ programs & apps for computers and cell phones out there. I strongly recommend having the ability to EQ. It can make a world of difference. And it may be as simple as downloading an app to your phone or computer, if that's your source.

Hope this helps, buddy. Hit me up, if you want.

--

@Checkerboard Strangler might be a good guy to have in this thread.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Cardinal]

Not going to help you, but I'll throw my experience out there as a frame of reference:

I've listened to, the HD580. I've owned the HD600's & HD650's.

The HD580's are more like the HD600's, and yes both are pretty sorely lacking in bass. The HD650's do correct some of that.

But where the HD650's come alive, in my opinion, is when well amped! They really need an amp to shine. With a good amp & and a little EQ, I find them fantastic for my genres, and even most genres, including having adequate bass. But for reference, I strongly prefer a textured and well defined 'organic' bass. Think live cello music, or an acoustic jazz combo with an upright bass. I detest those pillow-like undefined deep 'thuds'. However, that type of sonic experience may be part of your repertoire? I don't know Electronica, barring that I occasionally stumble across.

Yes, but the bass can't be boomy for boomy's sake. I've been trying to find new computer speakers for my studio, and had to return the Klipsch 2.1's because the subwoofer was completely unintegrated with the rest of the music. It was like I was listening to two tracks simultaneously: one track for the audio and one track with boom. I know exactly what you mean about organic bass in reference to the cello. Can you imagine no bass at all in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, thereby robbing the cello of its timber?

 

[Chomsky]

I had a pair of Pro-49A's back in the day.

I'm tellin' ya', man; you're a brother of a another mother!

Yep. Koss Pro-49A. With the liquid-filled ear-cups. Which, my dog couldn't resist - dammit!

Oh wait, I ALSO had a pair of Telex studio headphones, too.
I can't remember the model # but they looked like what you'd see in a public school library, but they sounded pretty fantastic for the time.
PS: To whom it may concern, BEATS headphones suck ass.

Son AND daughter both bought BEATS, both tossed them in the trash about two years later, cheap garbage.

I'm looking for my first wireless audio device - Ear Buds!

I realize I'm not going to get cabled audio quality, and I don't expect it. I'm looking for convenience primarily, hopefully with 'reasonable' audio quality. But from my research, it doesn't look like I'll be trying (ear) Beats due to their being bass heavy.

Actually, I'm initially only looking at devices that have EQ apps for my phone. Yeah, I feel that strongly about EQ (as I posted to Cardinal). With some EQ effort, I've gotten even moderate reproduction devices like my Senn HD280's to sound bearable. Hopefully, good EQ will bail out mid-priced wireless earbuds. We'll see. Amazon it will be!

 

[noonereal]

I have several amps, depending on what I'm doing. And until just recently, I had my stack set-up so I could switch between amps via a switching array, not needing to change a single cable!

I use my headphones in different rooms, I am a minimalist. I keep the signal pathway simple.

My stuff is what I would call, 'value oriented entry audiophile'. It's not 'purely value', but it's about finding the sweet spot in 'good value' terms. I find that level works well for me & my ears, in terms of headphone listening. Going into the 'entry point' for just entering 'audiophile' territory, just plain works for me. It gets me where I want to be, inexpensively. Consequently, my cans are in the 300-600 range - street price.

As I mentioned earlier I very seldom use headphones so I don't have a major investment in top of the line ones. Still, I own 5 or 6. The ones on my radar are the Focal Stellia but I doubt I'll pull the trigger.

My mainstay amp, which I absolutely love - especially with my HD650's - is a Dark Voice 336SE. It's a bit picky with tubes, in terms of hum. But with good new or NOS tubes, I really like it. Unfortunately, good new & NOS tubes will set you back as much as the amp, but are critical (IMO) in getting the best performance out of it. In fact, I wouldn't run it with stock tubes, to be honest.

My main Headphone amp is the Oppo HA 1. https://www.oppodigital.com/headphone-amplifier-ha-1/

The Little Dot though, has surprisingly been a fun little sleeper! It's highly moddable, and that has been part of my endearment to it. I've been swapping not just tubes, but also Op-Amps. Since the Little Dot is a hybrid, with a tube input stage but a solid-state out-put stage, it has some tube qualities - yet also a low output impedance. This means it can drive low impedance cans like Grado's or AKG's. The Dark Voice, being OTL, can only drive high impedance cans like the Senn's. But I do love what the Dark Voice, with good tubes, does for my Senns.

I am a sold state guy and don't use EQ either. I am a purist, minimalist.

I think the Dark Voice - HD650 combo has great synergy, and is an awesome combo for the money in the Classical/Jazz/Vocal/Acoustic genres. Toss in some good tubes, and for a grand you're good.

I almost got myself a tube headphone amp simply because they look so cool. I just anymore audio equipment. Of course, that has never stopped me before.
I have some funny stories in this regard. Heck, even my audio guy told me I did not need the power amps I bough. I told him, it was not a need, it was a want. Audio can be like that, at least for me.

For me it's not just about the sound, even though that's paramount. But, it's very much about the journey! I'm a tinkerer. I love experimenting, and modding. Be it audio, guitars, computers, cars, even my damn house! I just love experimenting with stuff, seeing how things change, and how I can make things 'better'. I like refining things.

I did that for a long time but I have kinda settled in now.

99.9% of my listening is with floor standing speakers.

Is your audio hobby mostly confided to Headphones?

 

[noonereal]

I don't buy into the ''audiophile cabling thing, beyond having a heavy-enough cable that's well built.

Same "but" I like to use the better cables none the less. It looks better and just makes me feel better.

 

[noonereal]

the bulk of my listening is Classical

About 10 years ago I changed my main genre of listening to classical. There is so much!

I particularly enjoy Medieval and 20th Century music. Minimalism, Philip Glass.

I like to call myself one of the world's great "appreciators of music." LOL

my favorite headphones (Sennheiser HD650), are awesome for Classical

I have the HD 600 as I said previous. I am not as lucky with them and classical as you. (it's good you stepped up) I think they are best suited for podcasts. It surprised me as they were supposed to be Sennheiser's most popular model and they were used by an engineer I respected to mix albums. Maybe it is just me.

I almost pulled out some headphone yesterday just because of this thread getting me a bit interested again.

 

[Cardinal]

Sony wh1000 xm4 review, part 1:

So I got the Sony WH1000 xm4 headphones and I'm not a hundred percent sure how I feel yet. While they're not audiophile headphones by any stretch, the sound is good. An unfortunate v-shaped frequency is easily corrected by the Sony's native app equalizer (it's surprising just how effective this fix is, actually).

1) Sound: Good. It can handle lower frequencies with extreme ease that regularly strain most of my other speakers and headphones. While the overall sound stage and clarity won't blow your tits off (as my dear sweet grandma used to say), it's good. However, as I said above, a custom EQ setting is required to get you there, otherwise the sound is surprisingly dirty. I followed the advice in this article: https://www.headphones.com/communit...-great-noise-cancelling-but-how-does-it-sound

That said, I have yet to play with their 3d sound feature, which requires using pictures of your ears and a subscription to one of several streaming music providers. I assume that the music you get to enjoy this 3d sound feature on only comes from those streaming providers? I don't know yet. When I have the time I'll go through that process and find out.

2) Bass: very good. The presence in the lows is very nice. In addition, the headphones offer a unique digital subwoofer, which adds "boom" that you can control in the native app. If you love boom you can make these very, very boomy. But I don't so I like to keep this setting on the low end because when set too high it'll rob the mids and highs.

3) Battery life: Fantastic. This is crucial for me because I work long hours, I need to be mobile, and I can't have any cords flying around me. I have a pair of Sennheiser momentum in-ear bluetooth headphones, and the battery life is so bloody awful that they're effectively only used when I'm exercising. I don't know how long they last, but I've been using them on and off for three days and I'm only down to 60%.

4) Bluetooth: fantastic: They not only connect with all of my devices with ease, they can also connect to two devices simultaneously. This is a straightforward feature that you never knew you always needed until you finally have it. Now that I do, I find myself asking, "Why wasn't this always a thing?"

5) Comfort: fantastic. Again, I work long hours, and I can't afford to feel undue pressure from the headphones. Lots and lots of other headphones, including the Bose QC 35, Audiotechnica, and a large number of Sennheiser and Sony over-the-ear headphones, regularly crush my skull. Even worse, the shape of those headphones end up pushing into the nerve right between the lower ear lobe and the jaw, and only a few minutes of use will result in headaches that last for hours. I think this problem may be unique to me because I so rarely see anybody else complain about this issue, and it's a problem that has shut me out of an enormous number of headphones. But the xm4 does not apply undue pressure and it does not drive into my nerves. In addition to the ears sitting very comfortably within the cups, and the material not resulting overheating, this is a driving reason for deciding to keep them. Even though the sound is good and not "ohmygod I just found Jesus," the incredibly limited number of headphones I get to wear makes me have to settle to some degree.

 

[Cardinal]

Part 2:

6) Power: Very good. I never feel the need to hit close to maximum volume. But just for the sake of testing, I maxed out the volume anyway and the volume was very uncomfortable, but only because I don't like it that loud, not because the sound fell apart at high volumes.

7) Features: it's got 'em! There's a native app you have to use with your phone, though that's not an issue because all of your settings will carry over into your desktop/laptop. These headphones were intended to give you a large degree of control. You can switch on and off music enhancement features, turn on and off and control the amount of the ANC, configure the ANC for the shape of your head and ears and atmospheric pressure, whether you want headphones to auto shut off after removing them, how long they're to be off your head before they auto shutoff, an equalizer...the list goes on and on. It's pretty extraordinary, actually.

8) ANC: I'm really not the best judge here for a couple reasons. First, I don't work in a very noisy environmen, though it does mostly cancel out the dehumidifier I have running 24/7, so that's nice. Based on the noises it's canceled out I have to assume it would work very well on a plane. The other reason I'm not the best judge of ANC is because I've always been unimpressed with the extremely low range of frequencies this technology addresses. So whirring noises, fine. Talking or snoring: no. So it's fair to say that my gripe is with the ANC technology itself and not this ANC. Moving on, though, the noise cancellation all about ANC and not passive. Passive headphones tend to rely on a lot of pressure on the head in order to create an airtight seal. The problem is that this pressure is also great at crushing your skull and hitting that nerve below the ear I talked about, so I'm happy these headphones are not that.

Conclusion: honestly, I don't know yet. The sound is good but I'm not in love with it. There's nothing I can pin down that's wrong, really, but there's just a certain "je ne sais quoi" about truly amazing sound that these don't have. I'm reminded of how disappointed I was in the bass of my old Sennheiser hd580's, but just how brilliant they were in the mids and highs. The clarity and detail in those headphones were out of this world, and that's lacking here.

That said, it's unfair to compare wireless close-backed headphones with ANC to wired open-backed headphones without ANC. They're apples and oranges. It's like complaining that a ferrari doesn't have the storage capacity of an van Well, yeah, they're different things with different functions. I have to compare these wireless headphones to other wireless headphones, and the fact is that based on all the comparison reviews I've seen, all the best ones are more or less a draw.

I can't shake the feeling that I should have better sound. But I'm severely limited in my options because of how few headphones comfortably fit me. And the sheer convenience, if not the sound, of the Sony xm4, is out of this world. And I may have to settle for the fact that truly great wireless sound just isn't there yet, and that the xm4's are about as good as they're going to get (for now). Suffice it to say that if I keep these, they won't be the last headphones I buy.

 

[Chomsky]

I wouldn't go through anything but a big box store. Every time I buy from the manufacturer I end up with some giant headache. For example, I just bought some Logitech computer speakers from Logitech, immediately decided I made a mistake, and found that it was literally impossible to cancel the order over the internet. Even after calling customer support they still ended up shipping them to me. Eventually I got things sorted out, but geez, how annoying.



Actually I didn't know that. I prefer open back because of the more natural sound, but I didn't know I was losing bass in the process.

I suspect you (metaphorically) have 'good ears'. In other words, you detect & appreciate the nuances in sound. One doesn't need to immerse themselves in theory & technical jargon to have a high level of appreciation. Remember, the Beatles knew absolutely no formal music theory or audio theory. They couldn't even read! But they had a high appreciation for the results of their craft (along with a high dose of energy, work ethic, and creativity).

Sharing your (creative) profession with us, only bolsters my belief you may have a heightened appreciation of music.

I hope you didn't mind my making (possible) personal assumptions?

(BTW - I'm personally fascinated by the creative process involved in the arts. If I ever write a book, it will be biographing those that work in the arts, the processes they use, and most importantly - what drove them to persevere against odds to become a professional artist?)

Everything goes through my macbook. So if I'm streaming using something like soundcloud then I'm at the mercy of their settings. And obviously I can control the EQ through itunes. However, the Sony headphones I just ordered are said to have an app that you run the headphones through, so I guess that's how it'll be done. Some people in the reviews have complained about that, but that actually sounds beneficial to me, because then the EQ will be set regardless of the source, be it streaming or itunes.




Thanks for the info!

 

[Chomsky]

Yes, but the bass can't be boomy for boomy's sake. I've been trying to find new computer speakers for my studio, and had to return the Klipsch 2.1's because the subwoofer was completely unintegrated with the rest of the music.

Hah! I had that Klipsch 2.1 for my computer system at one point, a very long time ago before I got into more serious headphone amps & sourcing.

Rather than using the speaker system, I generally ended-up mostly using my headphones through the 3.5mm jack on the small right speaker. The sound 'bearable, considering at the time I used headphones at a computer as a utilitarian solution to not annoy my family.

I ended-up giving my kid the system for him to use in the garage.

It was like I was listening to two tracks simultaneously: one track for the audio and one track with boom. I know exactly what you mean about organic bass in reference to the cello. Can you imagine no bass at all in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, thereby robbing the cello of its timber?

Now, I definitely maintain you have a heightened appreciate of music!

I absolutely love cello music! I always loved strings, and now for years cello has risen to the top for me.

And yes, 'organic' describes that 'live' cello quality well! it just adds such a 'real' presence.

Of course there's nothing wrong with a 'dirty sax' either . . . !

Good luck!

 

[Chomsky]

About 10 years ago I changed my main genre of listening to classical. There is so much!

I particularly enjoy Medieval and 20th Century music. Minimalism, Philip Glass.

I like to call myself one of the world's great "appreciators of music." LOL

I think one of the problems why more people don't like classical, is that you need to hear it live or on a really great system to appreciate it!

I have the HD 600 as I said previous. I am not as lucky with them and classical as you. (it's good you stepped up) I think they are best suited for podcasts. It surprised me as they were supposed to be Sennheiser's most popular model and they were used by an engineer I respected to mix albums. Maybe it is just me.

I'm no fan of the 600's either, despite their popularity with purists. I guess I'm not the purist I thought I was.

The 650's do correct a lot of what I don't like about the 600's. Tubes then add the final nuances I like. Unless I did a typo or misspoke, it was the 650's I was praising.

But the 650's need good amplification to bring the best out of them. That's my experience. In addition, I simply flat-out prefer them with tubes.

I find tubes add several important, though nuanced, qualities:

1] Tubes add a more 'organic' quality. In comparison, solid state sounds clinical & precise. Whereas tubes sound 'living', if that makes sense? The numbers don't always tell the story, but our 'heads/ears' do!

2] Tubes add a sense of three-dimension 'holography', to the soundstage & instrument placement. Whereas to my ears, solid state pans left & right, I hear tubes adding depth in terms of front & back. It's hard to explain, but the soundstage appears more three dimensional and the instruments & performers are better placed in the added dimension. A bit more 'ethereal', might be the way to describe it. And while I hate to use the term again, it sounds more 'organic'

I almost pulled out some headphone yesterday just because of this thread getting me a bit interested again.

I like both listening methods, that being speakers and headphones. Speakers is obviously the best & most life-like, as you're recreating a more proper soundstage in terms of our usual orientation when listening to a real-life performance. But, audiophile speaker-type systems are expensive, require the proper listening space, and they annoy the hell out of family members & neighbors.

As my family grew, I moved coincident with my prized Dahlquist monitors having deteriorated suspension foam (not uncommon for them). Not wanting to send them off for a rebuild, I sold much of my stuff to a good buddy, and figured I'd get a new system for the new house. I then soon got into headphones as a stopgap solution, my family was happier, I was also happier blasting music out at any hour of the day & night, and I never got around to building a proper speaker-based system. Trust me - I thought about building another system a lot, though! I even considered adding a 2nd floor over the garage, making it a guy's hang-out!