Nearly Half of Young Americans Believe US Is Racist and Not 'Greatest' Country, Survey Finds

[TU Curmudgeon]

Yes, too small but participation is random.

"Self-selected" and "random" do NOT mean the same thing.

 

[markjs]

Oh come on now, as soon as you consider the facts that Canada:

1. is a country founded by a bunch of drunks who didn't actually know what they were doing - or why;
2. has as its National Animal a rodent that is so stupid that it has been known to stand right where the tree it has just cut down is going to fall and gets crushed to death as a result;
3. has as its "National Bird" a bird whose most notable feature is the production of copious amounts of slimy green stool and that has an incredibly rotten disposition;
4. has as its "National Symbol" a police man in an incredibly impractical uniform;
5. has as its "National Dream" a railroad that was built through a huge campaign of grant, theft, and corruption (to say nothing of the number of lives lost);
6. had as one of its greatest "Wartime Leaders" a man who got his political advice from his dog, a Ouija Board, and his dead mother;
7. has as it's sole "National Defining Characteristic" the belief that anyone (even other Canadians) actually cares what the answer to "What is a Canadian?" is;
8. has TWO of the "World's Longest Undefended Boarders" while Canadian think that it only has one; and
9. is the only country in the world to have successfully repulsed invasions from the United States of America (three or four times - depending on whether you count "The Irish" as "Americans" or not)

how can you NOT say that Canada isn't MORE "exceptional" than the US is?

Canadians also somehow know how to have guns and yet not have massive gun problems because of it.:shrug:

Maybe Canada is just in some way better than us? (American nationalism is what they call exceptinalism). Im not saying in all ways, but clearly in some, without a doubt.:roll:

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

View attachment 67245248

poll rejected!!

On what specific grounds.

Please do not include either "sample size too small" or "self-selected polling groups are not reliable" (oh yes, you can also skip over "poor polling question design") as I've already covered those points.

 

[Mycroft]

On what specific grounds.

Please do not include either "sample size too small" or "self-selected polling groups are not reliable" (oh yes, you can also skip over "poor polling question design") as I've already covered those points.

I admit the picture I posted was kind of small, but you should have been able to see what I circled.

My rejection is based on over-sampling and under-sampling based on Party preference.

 

[SCrider]

With all due respect we both live in free countries with mine being a little bit freer... we can actually say what we want to say without fear of getting sued or arrested... unless its slanderous or creates a threat of imminent danger... so you can believe and pretty much say whatever you want.

If you don't think your country or mine is particularly exceptional, I will agree with your assessment of your own country, will heartily disagree with your ill-informed assessment of my own.

Contrary to many leftist beliefs, all cultures and nations are not equal.

Location
Formerly of the Southern USA, now permanently in the mountains of Panama ?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

This is de jure versus de facto.

De jure = In law.
De facto = In practice.

It's like dismissing the reality behind the Civil Rights Marches because the Declaration and the Constitution said all is well. One of the reasons the U.S. "goes as far" is that it is trying to overcome the base instincts of racism, bigotry, and sexism that deep-rooted religion and centuries of institutional slavery created.

There are those who love this country the way a four year old loves Mommy, and those who love this country the way an adult loves a child who is going down a wrong path, and there are those who don't fit into either group at all because of apathy and lack of information.

I suspect that the latter group is the largest one, but if you're in the second group, it doesn't mean that you don't love America, it means that you are honest with yourself about our faults and shortcomings, and you likely want to help do something about it, in order to help make America more deserving of the perceived exceptionalism you hear about.
And it also means that you're honest with yourself about exceptionalism being a purely aspirational concept, one which you might never fully achieve but which is nevertheless worth pursuing to the extent possible.

A four year old loves Mommy without question, and anyone who criticizes Mommy, even for the most valid reasons, is the enemy and very bad, and must be destroyed.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Also, in 1939 our government turned away a shipload of Jewish refugees fleeing Germany. They were sent back to perish in the death camps.
So, I guess the US and Canada are exceptionals among many exceptional nations.

Yes but a few short years later you began accepting those Jewish refugees, because my grandparents were among them.
It was the USA that was last in finally accepting them. We were far too busy embracing Lindbergh and his America First ideology to pay adequate witness to the horrors happening by the hand of the Third Reich.

Without Canada's final awakening, my paternal grandparents would have perished altogether.

 

[AGENT J]

From FOX News

Nearly Half of Young Americans Believe US Is Racist and Not 'Greatest' Country, Survey Finds
​

An alarming new online survey found that national pride is falling among the next generation.

The survey, conducted by polling firm YouGov, reveals that many members of the younger generation (under 38 -- Generation Z and millennials) do not identify with patriotism or American exceptionalism.

The Foundation for Liberty and American Greatness, which sponsored the survey, highlighted some key findings, including that 46 percent of respondents do not agree that America is the greatest country in the world, half believe the country is sexist (50 percent) and racist (49 percent), and 47 percent say America's future should be driven by socialism over capitalism.

Other findings include:

COMMENT:-

Just two minor points before everyone flies into a flap over the results:

1. "On-line polls" are notoriously inaccurate because they have a marked tendency to use a "self-selected population"; and
2. the number of people that it requires to obtain statistically reliable results (+/- 3.5%) 95% of the time if the "population" is around 13,500,000 is around 400. The population of 14 to 17 year olds in the US is around 13,500,000. The number of responses for that demographic in this survey was 100. Using only a sample size of 100 produces a "confidence interval" of +/- 50%. [What that means is that, with the surveyed population in this survey, if the recorded result was 50%, then the actual result could be someplace between a low of 0.00% and a high of 100%.

PS - If you take a look at the actual survey questions asked, you will also see that they are incredibly sloppily worded and use terms that are so subjective that it is impossible to tell if one person giving an answer is actually responding to the same OBJECTIVE question that another person who gives the same answer is.
​

well some polls can be accurate and some can note . . seen that time and time again. I know a lot of people under 38 and this doesnt seem to line up at all but thats just based on my experiences and travel in the country which is mostly limited to PA, OH, IL, VA, DC. Other places i travel TX, GA, FL, NY, NJ i dont think i travel enough too and know enough people well enough under 38 to make a decision.

but first this country does have a race and sexism issue . . now of course that doesnt mean that things havent drastically improved and our better than ever or that we are so far behind everybody else just that there are still issue and we can improve . .
second this poll would have to define what it means by socialism over capitalism. the word socialism is basically meaningless with out explanation anymore. I dont know anybody in real life that wants "stereotypical" socialism/socialist country. But many people right, left and center do want to improve things that are already socialist in our country and add some.

 

[Fearandloathing]

From FOX News

Nearly Half of Young Americans Believe US Is Racist and Not 'Greatest' Country, Survey Finds
​

An alarming new online survey found that national pride is falling among the next generation.

The survey, conducted by polling firm YouGov, reveals that many members of the younger generation (under 38 -- Generation Z and millennials) do not identify with patriotism or American exceptionalism.

The Foundation for Liberty and American Greatness, which sponsored the survey, highlighted some key findings, including that 46 percent of respondents do not agree that America is the greatest country in the world, half believe the country is sexist (50 percent) and racist (49 percent), and 47 percent say America's future should be driven by socialism over capitalism.

Other findings include:

COMMENT:-

Just two minor points before everyone flies into a flap over the results:

1. "On-line polls" are notoriously inaccurate because they have a marked tendency to use a "self-selected population"; and
2. the number of people that it requires to obtain statistically reliable results (+/- 3.5%) 95% of the time if the "population" is around 13,500,000 is around 400. The population of 14 to 17 year olds in the US is around 13,500,000. The number of responses for that demographic in this survey was 100. Using only a sample size of 100 produces a "confidence interval" of +/- 50%. [What that means is that, with the surveyed population in this survey, if the recorded result was 50%, then the actual result could be someplace between a low of 0.00% and a high of 100%.

PS - If you take a look at the actual survey questions asked, you will also see that they are incredibly sloppily worded and use terms that are so subjective that it is impossible to tell if one person giving an answer is actually responding to the same OBJECTIVE question that another person who gives the same answer is.
​

Also, what I learned yesterday is that the under 30 generation is NOT influenced by television...at all.

 

[Fearandloathing]

There is shame in every country that has done great things. To my knowledge there is no country that has only engaged morally and humanely throughout it's history while accomplishing anything close to what the US has. The US has saved the world IMO. Not many countries can make that claim. Despite our flaws America is a country to be proud of.

However America today is an embarrassment. America is the sum of it's people and the American people are a disgrace.

Oh yeah, the US saved the world....single handedly.

You always forget your allies whose blood was spilled on your behalf. 4,000 plus Canadians to be exact, and the reward for helping you is Trump's trade war and vicious rhetoric.

In the future, please go save someone else's world, we still look at the marvelous job you did in Iraq, Afghanistan.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Correction: American leadership is a disgrace!
/

Who elected them?

Look, it's not magic. Your system is corrupt to the max, nothing has ever been done about it because less than 40% of you vote and the ones who do are brainwashed morons believing obvious lies. Seriously EVERY American is responsible for Trump, which would be fine, but you forced him on the rest of the world too.

 

[DaveFagan]

Who elected them?

Look, it's not magic. Your system is corrupt to the max, nothing has ever been done about it because less than 40% of you vote and the ones who do are brainwashed morons believing obvious lies. Seriously EVERY American is responsible for Trump, which would be fine, but you forced him on the rest of the world too.

My reply today to another post. "Speaking of Trump. “As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” You'd have thought those words were specifically written for our contemporary events. Not so. "The more things change, the more they remain the same." The first quote was ""H.L. Mencken (1880-1956):"

 

[Fearandloathing]

Canada is made up of disparate peoples. The French and the English came together to form a country. We never had an issue with the Crown. We were never "beaten" by the Crown.
In my previous post, I neglected to point out that we don't own any moral high ground. Our history with residential schools is a shameful part of our history. Also, in 1939 our government turned away a shipload of Jewish refugees fleeing Germany. They were sent back to perish in the death camps.
So, I guess the US and Canada are exceptionals among many exceptional nations.

Excellent post.

However it doesn't go deep enough into the actual, real differences in our two cultures. Americans arm themselves against one another, Canadians fund medicare to keep everyone healthy.

THAT is a fundamental difference. It is one of attitude.

And good for you about the higher moral ground. No, we are NOT without sin and residential schools are only part of the shame. But here we run into a fundamental difference....Canada ponied up and created a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, of which I was skeptical, but now see aspects being implemented. First time ever, last August 10,000 Canadians of all stripes and colors gathered for a Indigenous Music fest which left many of us white agape at just how excellent was the music.

I claim no more ground, there is much work to be done, but am mollified that my country is seeking solutions; in our own stumbling and sometimes confusing ways we eventually get to where we need to be.

Finally, after living in the US I see a third fundamental difference, Americans demand change NOW. Canadians, either through fear or caution take a long time to getting there. 30 plus years ago I watched troops move into Montreal as the "October Crisis" grew and martial law was declared. I was also there when the Parti Quebecois was elected and there again to cover both referendums.

Today, the issue of Quebec separation has almost no living tissue...like I say, in time............

 

[Kreton]

Oh yeah, the US saved the world....single handedly.

You always forget your allies whose blood was spilled on your behalf. 4,000 plus Canadians to be exact, and the reward for helping you is Trump's trade war and vicious rhetoric.

In the future, please go save someone else's world, we still look at the marvelous job you did in Iraq, Afghanistan.

I am referring to WW1 and WW2. I don't feel like anything in Iraq and Afghanistan was a real world wide threat.

As for was it single handedly - kind of. Of course there were many other fighting, but no really winning. In both great wars the outcome was far from certain and the US intervening tipped the scales. Maybe it would have happened anyway - there is no real way to know - but the impact the US had on defeating Germany both times was incredibly impactful.

Now back to Iraq - removing Saddam was the right thing to do it was just poorly planned. Afghanistan too.

Lastly no one suffers more due to Trump being in office than Americans. The vast majority don't want him here. A bull**** system put him there. He is not representative of most Americans but I think you already knew that.

 

[Deuce]

View attachment 67245248

poll rejected!!

Care to elaborate?

 

[Mycroft]

Care to elaborate?

No.

Look at the picture I provided or follow the OP's links to that graphic. Pay attention to the sampling data by party affiliation.

 

[JoanDavis]

Even taking into account your accurate summation of online polls, the results actually don't surprise me and I wouldn't doubt the accuracy all that much. I actually wouldn't be surprised if a more accurate type of polling would find much higher numbers.

A few months ago a few thousand young people protested against the republican's pro-gun propaganda. Some of these young men and women were survivors of mass shootings. Many of them will be able to vote in 2020 and they are ANGRY.

A few days ago in Australia, thousands of young people protested against the rightwing governments refusal to tackle climate change. And in a few years time time many of them will be able to vote and they are ANGRY.

The far right can ignore the young at their peril. They are our future and if they stick to their principles and morals, the far right should be HISTORY.

 

[Kal'Stang]

A few months ago a few thousand young people protested against the republican's pro-gun propaganda. Some of these young men and women were survivors of mass shootings. Many of them will be able to vote in 2020 and they are ANGRY.

A few days ago in Australia, thousands of young people protested against the rightwing governments refusal to tackle climate change. And in a few years time time many of them will be able to vote and they are ANGRY.

The far right can ignore the young at their peril. They are our future and if they stick to their principles and morals, the far right should be HISTORY.

You do know that there has always been those that are "far right" and "far left" right? Neither one will ever be "history".

As for the rest of your post, irrelevant to the topic at hand. If you wish to talk about those then feel free to make your own thread based on those.

 

[MSgt]

There are those who love this country the way a four year old loves Mommy, and those who love this country the way an adult loves a child who is going down a wrong path, and there are those who don't fit into either group at all because of apathy and lack of information.

I suspect that the latter group is the largest one, but if you're in the second group, it doesn't mean that you don't love America, it means that you are honest with yourself about our faults and shortcomings, and you likely want to help do something about it, in order to help make America more deserving of the perceived exceptionalism you hear about.
And it also means that you're honest with yourself about exceptionalism being a purely aspirational concept, one which you might never fully achieve but which is nevertheless worth pursuing to the extent possible.

A four year old loves Mommy without question, and anyone who criticizes Mommy, even for the most valid reasons, is the enemy and very bad, and must be destroyed.

Good analogy.

The part in bold is what I have always defined as a patriot. Of course, in my earlier years there was a bit of blind devotion as a young Marine. But there was also a nagging reserve that asked questions, in which "because democracy & freedom" were not suitable answers. An American patriot must understand and accept America's history, especially from a global perspective, good and bad, and recognize where America is great because of both. For example:

- The "All Men are Created Equal" in the 1776 Declaration was certainly betrayed by the "Three-Fifths Compromise" of the 1788 Constitution. Slavery was brought to this "new" land by Europeans and left for new U.S. Americans to figure out. Unless I am mistaken, the U.S. is the only country to have gone to civil war in order to address the issue of slavery and race. And contrary to our friends across the Atlantic, the issues of racism has not been settled through ethnic cleansing and genocides. In other words, we have such racial problems in the U.S. today not just because of a history of slavery, but also because we have chosen to force cohesion and unity in order to overcome racism. Compare this path to Europe's historical answer to racial and tribal differences and the U.S.' struggle is something to be proud about.


It's easy to criticize America for the slavery issue. But this isn't our whole story. The Declaration and the Constitution do not define who we are. Those documents define who we have long struggled to become. But we will never become what we set out to be in 1776 if we kill criticism and just blindly support what is clearly not in our country's best interests.

 

[holbritter]

Please provide cite for that statement...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ds-racist-countries-answers-surprise-you.html

 

[Fletch]

This is de jure versus de facto.

De jure = In law.
De facto = In practice.

It's like dismissing the reality behind the Civil Rights Marches because the Declaration and the Constitution said all is well. One of the reasons the U.S. "goes as far" is that it is trying to overcome the base instincts of racism, bigotry, and sexism that deep-rooted religion and centuries of institutional slavery created.

Bull****. That is exactly the type of idiocy that led to the results of the poll. The fact that the youth believe we are a 'racist country' only serves to prove how ignorant the youth of America are.

 

[MSgt]

Bull****. That is exactly the type of idiocy that led to the results of the poll. The fact that the youth believe we are a 'racist country' only serves to prove how ignorant the youth of America are.

Yeah, there's something about white supremacists and Nazi wannabes at Trump rallies that kind of make the point for them. What led to the poll was the reality...

- Anti-Muslim has been a theme since 9/11.
- Anti-black has been an exacerbated theme since 2008.
- And if a white cop shoots an unarmed black with his hands in the air, you people are sure to ignore the act, denigrate BLM, and support cops.

And where has all of this consistent and irrational hatred for other religions and races come from? Perhaps watching their parents behave like racist idiots for so long has had an effect. And while you are straining to understand such things, perhaps you can find an American at the age of twenty-one that can point out an America that isn't in constant warfare. You seem to be out of touch with what this country has been teaching its youth since 9/11.

Or, you can just do what all the conservatives appear to be trying to do anymore, which is re-write history in a way that denies an ongoing racist identity and re-brands the average conservative as a misrepresented victim of "the left," who are now supposedly the actual "fascists and racists."

 

[Fletch]

Yeah, there's something about white supremacists and Nazi wannabes at Trump rallies that kind of make the point for them. What led to the poll was the reality...

- Anti-Muslim has been a theme since 9/11.
- Anti-black has been an exacerbated theme since 2008.
- And if a white cop shoots an unarmed black with his hands in the air, you people are sure to denigrate BLM as you support the act.

And where has all of this consistent and irrational hatred for other religions and races come from? Perhaps watching their parents behave like racist idiots for so long has had an effect. And while you are straining to understand such things, perhaps you can find an American at the age of twenty-one that can point out an America that isn't in constant warfare. You seem to be out of touch with what this country has been teaching its youth since 9/11.

More bull**** from race obsessed, race baiting leftists. Tell you what, why dont you go address your 'base instincts of racism' rather than project your issues onto others.

 

[MSgt]

More bull**** from race obsessed, race baiting leftists.

So, is this the part where I'm supposed to be offended over yet another sad conservative's misuse of the word "leftist?"

Define "leftist" and just how that applies to racism. This should be entertaining. After you fail with this, we'll go ahead and correct your confusion between an "obsession" for pointing out reality, and your utter ignorance for denying it.

Tell you what, why don't you go address your 'base instincts of racism' rather than project your issues onto others.

I did address it. You replied with denial and I shoved some modern evidence in your face, by which you also denied while asking me to address it. Be specific about what you need cleared up. Did the de jure and de facto terms confuse you? Did you need me to show you how the "Three-Fifths Compromise" in the Constitution contradicted the "All Men Are Created Equal" in the Declaration of Independence, by which a Civil War and Civil Rights Marches were still necessary to deal with? Or shall I talk about how the Obamas have been referred to as monkeys and apes? Clearly, racism hasn't been a persistent theme within our society at all, huh?

The educated are always prepared to help the lesser in society, if only the lesser would shut the hell up and learn. But you conservatives appear far too busy trying to re-brand yourselves these days in a way that denies your clear history.

 

[Fletch]

So, is this the part where I'm supposed to be offended over yet another sad conservative's misuse of the word "leftist?"

Define "leftist" and just how that applies to racism. This should be entertaining. After you fail with this, we'll go ahead and correct your confusion between an "obsession" for pointing out reality, and your utter ignorance for denying it.



I did address it. You replied with denial and I shoved some modern evidence in your face, by which you also denied while asking me to address it. Be specific about what you need cleared up. Did the de jure and de facto terms confuse you? Did you need me to show you how the "Three-Fifths Compromise" in the Constitution contradicted the "All Men Are Created Equal" in the Declaration of Independence, by which a Civil War and Civil Rights Marches were still necessary to deal with? Or shall I talk about how the Obamas have been referred to as monkeys and apes? Clearly, racism hasn't been a persistent theme within our society at all, huh?

The educated are always prepared to help the lesser in society, if only the lesser would shut the hell up and learn. But you conservatives appear far too busy trying to re-brand yourselves these days in a way that denies your clear history.

Your posts are nonsense. Worse, actually, they are lies. That someone, somewhere called Obama an ape is evidence that the whole of America is a racist country??? The 3/5ths compromise??? Thats more 'evidence'??? Jesus. Do the youth believe that America is a racist country? Probably, but that is because the youth are ignorant by definition and what they do know is the type of crap you are peddling. Again, cure your own 'base instincts of racism' and stop projecting your bias and hatred onto others.