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Nearly 250 female inmates sterilized in California prisons without state approval

PeteEU

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rathi

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Its not correct to say they were "forced" to be sterilized, as force was not used in this instance. Rather, it is an example of government agents using their positions of authority to pressure individuals in an unacceptable manner. The potential for abuse from government based sterilization was demonstrated during the eugenics era and there needs to be safeguards to prevent abuse. Prisoners are especially vulnerable given their situation.
 

Gina

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Nearly 250 female inmates sterilized in California prisons without state approval - NY Daily News



Seriously......

Forcing inmates to be sterilized... is this Nazi Germany or 1930s US? Nope.. that was 2 years ago... wtf!?
Without signatures of informed consent, acknowledging that they knew they didn't have to be sterilized, this is a clear violation of the rights of those women. We've already been there done that as a nation. I don't care how any doctor views it, neither he nor any official of the state, has a right to sterilize inmates without their full and informed consent.
 

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Fenton

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" I " approve of sterilization, but in no way forced .

Give these women an option or two and you can cut back on abortions and children growing up in poverty with ex-con parents.
 

Ryan5

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Nearly 250 female inmates sterilized in California prisons without state approval - NY Daily News



Seriously......

Forcing inmates to be sterilized... is this Nazi Germany or 1930s US? Nope.. that was 2 years ago... wtf!?


So courts and judges should simply allow an unemployed woman who in court proclaims "if you don't stop me I'm going to have 10 kids" to do it?


This is exactly what you're arguing.



By the way, I don't assume this needs mentioning among the rational, but this is absolutely wonderful news. These judges should get 100k bonuses for each sterilization.


 
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DiAnna

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Reading the entire article, the process doesn't sound as ominous as the OP would have us believe. Most of the women quoted in the article were women who had 6 or 7 children already, at least one was a repeat-offender addict, and I suspect that most or all of the children of women who were asked to consent to the procedure already had children in foster care because of their own addiction and imprisonment. All but one of the women had agreed to the procedure... I'm presuming they signed consent forms... and the one clearly illegal example is of the women who had twice refused but was pressured during her C-section while under sedation.

To be brutally honest, when repeat offenders and drug addicts pop out a half-dozen kids being raised by taxpayers, if I were a physician I'd try to talk them into the procedure too.

We're not being given a fully-honest, completely-factual representation. No woman should be forced against her will, but I'd certainly be in favor of court orders for such for women who have repeatedly born children who were neglected, abused, born addicted, or taken by the state due to parental incompetence. Not a popular opinion I'm sure, but it's what I feel.
 

Henrin

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Doesn't surprise me one bit. You have tons of people that want to cut off a rapists nuts or force them to take a shot their rest of their lives to keep them chemically castrated. You have others that want to sterilize children, so they can't get anyone pregnant. And you have others that want to sterilize women for a large array of reasons ranging from having to many kids to simply being irresponsible. It doesn't surprise me with all these crazy assholes running around that some of them are in the government actually doing it to people.
 

Sarcogito

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So courts and judges should simply allow an unemployed woman who in court proclaims "if you don't stop me I'm going to have 10 kids" to do it?
Yes.

.
 

Ryan5

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Lol. Libertarian advocating the creation of 10 welfare children..



And that is why Libertarians are an illogical group and will stay that way. On the fringes where they belong. Making no sense to anyone but themselves.



Btw "Libertarian Left" has to be the most contradictory political ID I've ever seen.
 

Sarcogito

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Lol. Libertarian advocating the creation of 10 welfare children..
I’m not advocating the woman have the children. I think it is foolish for her to keep having children. I am saying the State should not have the authority to force an adult to undergo a surgical procedure.

And that is why Libertarians are an illogical group and will stay that way. On the fringes where they belong. Making no sense to anyone but themselves.
No, illogical would be if I claimed to want to live in a free society while at the same time advocating that the State should has dominion over our bodies.



Btw "Libertarian Left" has to be the most contradictory political ID I've ever seen.
Unfortunately most Americans are not familiar with the traditional definition of libertarianism or the definition used by most of the world and assume it is what the Libertarian Party platform states. Since a sizeable portion of the membership of this forum are Americans (I am as well) I use the lean “Libertarian-Left” to differentiate myself from the Americanized version of the definition. Do a little reading on the subject. You might find it interesting.
 

reinoe

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Lol. Libertarian advocating the creation of 10 welfare children..
Sarcogito has explained themselves fine enough already, but is said woman has 10 children, then she and not welfare takes care of those 10 children.
 

apdst

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Neomalthusian

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I’m not advocating the woman have the children. I think it is foolish for her to keep having children. I am saying the State should not have the authority to force an adult to undergo a surgical procedure.
Ideally, yes, but children have rights, and if the only way the children's rights can be protected and needs be met is for the State to be the guardian (of each next baby), the State should have a say, frankly, since the state is the guardian, and the guardian should have the say.

No, illogical would be if I claimed to want to live in a free society while at the same time advocating that the State should has dominion over our bodies.
There's nothing logical about suggesting sterilization equals "dominion over our bodies." And in the case of this story, it's not really clear there's any lack of consent.
 

Fiddytree

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California can't seem to give up forced sterilizations. It's like they are addicted to it and want to keep remaining on top of most sterilizations in the nation's history.
 

Peter King

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Its not correct to say they were "forced" to be sterilized, as force was not used in this instance. Rather, it is an example of government agents using their positions of authority to pressure individuals in an unacceptable manner. The potential for abuse from government based sterilization was demonstrated during the eugenics era and there needs to be safeguards to prevent abuse. Prisoners are especially vulnerable given their situation.
Yes, because only physical force is valid when it comes to "forcing" someone to have something done.

Ever heard of undue pressure? Mental blackmail? These are not incredibly smart women (well most of them won't be), they are people who do stupid crime and who most likely won't have had a decent education and who can be pressured or browbeaten into something by a smart "salesperson" (in this case a doctor).
 

Henrin

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I guess they shouldn't have ****ed up and got sent to the joint.

Won't this save money becaue they won't be spitting out puppies that we have to support? I mean, that's the argument used to support tax payer funded abortion.
There is a reason that argument is complete tripe, apst. This is a wonderful example of just where that argument leads.
 

apdst

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There is a reason that argument is complete tripe, apst. This is a wonderful example of just where that argument leads.
Hence the reason I used it, my friend. As I've pointed out many times, "for the public good", has been used an excuse to strip people of their rights for centuries.
 

specklebang

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I agree with you, a moment as rare as a Unicorn sighting.




" I " approve of sterilization, but in no way forced .

Give these women an option or two and you can cut back on abortions and children growing up in poverty with ex-con parents.
 

specklebang

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The fewer children these women have will be a gift to society. I'd like to see them offer reduced sentences in exchange for male or female sterilization. Anything that will reduce the exponential growth those least able to produce decent children.



Yes, because only physical force is valid when it comes to "forcing" someone to have something done.

Ever heard of undue pressure? Mental blackmail? These are not incredibly smart women (well most of them won't be), they are people who do stupid crime and who most likely won't have had a decent education and who can be pressured or browbeaten into something by a smart "salesperson" (in this case a doctor).
 

Ryan5

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I’m not advocating the woman have the children. I think it is foolish for her to keep having children. I am saying the State should not have the authority to force an adult to undergo a surgical procedure.



No, illogical would be if I claimed to want to live in a free society while at the same time advocating that the State should has dominion over our bodies.





Unfortunately most Americans are not familiar with the traditional definition of libertarianism or the definition used by most of the world and assume it is what the Libertarian Party platform states. Since a sizeable portion of the membership of this forum are Americans (I am as well) I use the lean “Libertarian-Left” to differentiate myself from the Americanized version of the definition. Do a little reading on the subject. You might find it interesting.


No it is you who are mistaken.


I don't care in the slightest about some international version of libertarianism (which absolutely does not exist, I've spoken to many a European and none of them have Libertarians in their countries political systems). We're talking about the American left and American Libertarianism. We're in the empire. Don't drag us into some despicable internationalist version of anything so as to muddy the waters.


In America the Left represents Government, not some myopic radical 'Libertarian Left' which grants an individual any right. That is not the American Left and never has been. In America the Left is pro big government and pro government intervention in your life (taxing you, creating eternal subservience via welfare/other).


You seem to have it mixed up that the Left is not this in America, it is. The Right is the individualist party. The Left *is* the side with the judiciary, the judges, big govt and its subsidiaries. The right is the one that argues that she should be able to have 10 kids, not the left. Again, you seem to be confused. The Left in America pushes abortion and birth control for a reason and it isn't for civil rights or women's rights, it's the Lefts answer to many things conservatives don't have an answer for frankly. (Population control of certain negative social subsets, single mothers, generational poverty, +++).
 
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Henrin

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The fewer children these women have will be a gift to society. I'd like to see them offer reduced sentences in exchange for male or female sterilization. Anything that will reduce the exponential growth those least able to produce decent children.
That is basically coercive. The choice is either get sterilized or stay in prison.
 

specklebang

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So what? Some reasonable thought would have to be given as to how much of a "discount" you get, and my committee hasn't formed yet to sort this completely out.

When you're a prisoner, we coerce you into living in a tiny space with no comforts and no privacy. In Norway, it's not a crime to break out of prison because they feel it ius natural. In America, breakouts are harshly punished. In my view, this would be a reasonable exchange between society and those who harmed society.



That is basically coercive. The choice is either get sterilized or stay in prison.
 
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