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Navy expected to relieve captain who raised alarm about COVID-19 outbreak on aircraft carrier

Jack Hays

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Who the hell is the Big Stick? The Commander? The Secretary of the Navy? The President? Good grief, some of you try way too hard with your jargon.
It's the nickname of the USS Theodore Roosevelt.
 

vegas giants

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Who the hell is the Big Stick? The Commander? The Secretary of the Navy? The President? Good grief, some of you try way too hard with your jargon.



Let's do this together. The man was a Navy Captain; an O-6. And he was the commander of a Nimitz-Class nuclear powered aircraft carrier. This is not a row boat. He is the equivalent of a Marine Colonel, who leads a Regiment. The next phase for both is the Admiral and the General ranks, respectively.

This means that Crozier had at least two decades of Navy officer behind him, with all the military experience and legal education that this comes with. Thus, even you should have a pretty good idea of what "proper" procedures he followed prior to his widely disseminated letter. Can I assume that, whatever rank you managed to achieve, you retired after twenty? Did you not learn about proper procedures and how to raise an alarm over those two decades? Did you not understand Request Mast as a lower enlisted and Chain-of-Command contacts as a senior enlisted? I remember you saying once how you helped your men defy leadership at every turn because your men came first...whatever that was supposed to mean.

To assume that Captain Crozier simply lost his head and jumped to this extreme is a stupid gamble. He was clearly a trained professional. Or do you think just let anybody command a Nimitz-Class nuclear powered aircraft carrier? To suggest otherwise is to declare that the Navy made a mistake in the first place.



The fact that he took time to write this letter and widely disseminate it suggests that he had tried to handle it.



Suggesting that if even one Sailor dies that he wasn't important enough.
If hes a carrier captain he was being groomed for admiral.


Now he'll get it sooner
 

calamity

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If hes a carrier captain he was being groomed for admiral.


Now he'll get it sooner
F being an admiral. I want this guy running for Senate.
 

MSgt

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If hes a carrier captain he was being groomed for admiral.


Now he'll get it sooner
Doubt it. It was a major door opening for Rear Admiral Lower Half, but his career ended the moment he was relieved.
 

jpn

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If hes a carrier captain he was being groomed for admiral.
Now he'll get it sooner
In normal (non-Trump) times I'd say the Captain's career was over, without question.

However, the Trump administration has perpetrated one outrage against the military after another.

Trump ranting and humiliating the senior officers in the Pentagon's "tank," (that was when then-SecState Tillerson called Trump "a f**king asshole").

Undermining discipline by sticking up for a petty officer who had committed war crimes, causing the Secretary of the Navy Richard Spencer to resign in protest.

Deciding to cut and run on our Kurdish allies, causing General Mattis to resign in disgust.

Childishly revoking former CIA director John Brennan's security clearance because Brennan dared to criticize him, causing Admiral McRaven*to resign in protest. McRaven published his resignation letter, which said in part,
"Therefore, I would consider it an honor if you would revoke my security clearance as well, so I can add my name to the list of men and women who have spoken up against your presidency.
Like most Americans, I had hoped that when you became president, you would rise to the occasion and become the leader this great nation needs.
A good leader tries to embody the best qualities of his or her organization. A good leader sets the example for others to follow. A good leader always puts the welfare of others before himself or herself.
Your leadership, however, has shown little of these qualities. Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation."

So is there sufficient resentment in the military to stick it in Trump's eye? Or are the ranks sufficiently infiltrated with Trump loyalists that they'll make sure Captain Crozier is cashiered? We'll see.
 

calamity

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Doubt it. It was a major door opening for Rear Admiral Lower Half, but his career ended the moment he was relieved.
But, his political career began...if he should so choose.
 

jpn

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F being an admiral. I want this guy running for Senate.
In the meantime I hear Jarred will skipper the ship until they find a replacement.
 

vegas giants

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Doubt it. It was a major door opening for Rear Admiral Lower Half, but his career ended the moment he was relieved.
All he has to do is make it to November.
 

MSgt

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You don't know a hell of a lot about a subject that you are rambling on about?

View attachment 67277149
A "hell of a lot" is knowing a nickname? Does that sum up your career?

Because I don't know your branch's nickname for your ship I don't know "a hell of a lot" about what I have stated about military common sense? Do you realize that the military branches are full of people who have no idea what an aircraft carrier even really is? Big boat with planes? I don't know what you people might have nicknamed your forks either. The little stabber? Durp.

Anyways.. You are more than welcome to actually present some common sense yourself. For a retired Sailor, you appear to have a lot of contempt for the Navy that you would imply that this Captain was far too inexperienced to understand what a Chain-of-Command is and what proper procedures laid before him. Simply assuming that he jumped to this letter is foolish. And I will add that it appears to be a bit seasoned with your partisan politics. Something tells me that were a Democrat the President, you would be all about "supporting the troop" right now.
 

MSgt

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All he has to do is make it to November.
That would be a mistake.

A Commander-in-Chief, especially one who dodged the draft, should know to stay out of internal military affairs. Once the Secretary of the Navy made this decision, it has to come down to the Secretary of the Navy to make another one. A Commander-in-Chief, despite his incidental position as given to him, has no business disrupting legal military cases, promoting ranks, and ruining careers. These things are disruptive to the Chain-of-Command.

The current one, despite being a draft-dodger, fancies himself as a king that sits on high. "Throw me a parade!" "Move that ship!" "Dismiss that case!" Etcetera.
 

Higgins86

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You know better. Sandhurst taught you better.
I never went to Sandhurst. That’s for officers not working class boys like me ;)
 

MSgt

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But, his political career began...if he should so choose.
Yeah, maybe.

More than likely, after his "Big Twig" stint, he would have began to politicize his rank anyway. A lot of Admirals and Generals do, especially those at the Pentagon. They become friends with Senatiors and Representatives, who work with lobbyists in order to push Defense Industry projects, which encourage jobs in their individual states. Then, those same Admirals and Generals take off their uniform and put on a suit at those very same companies.
 

MSgt

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Deciding to cut and run on our Kurdish allies, causing General Mattis to resign in disgust.
This is the part where all of Trump's Veteran supporters truly proved themselves. Never mind that they gush for a draft-dodger or his (and his idiot son) persistent degeneration of the military at every turn. And the Captain Crozier issue does come down to their partisan allegiance for some.

But whether or not they actually even knew the man, Mattis went from being the "real deal" to being a traitor to Trump. ****ing pathetic. Mattis is absolutely one of America's greatest historical Generals. When Trump is gone, they will all try to jump back on the wagon. As long as I'm here, **** that.
 
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calamity

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This is the part where all of Trump's Veteran supporters truly proved themselves. Never mind that they gush for a draft-dodger or his (and his idiot son) persistent degeneration of the military at every turn. And the Captain Crozier issue does come down to their partisan allegiance for some.

But whether or not they actually even knew the man, Mattis went from being the "real deal" to being a traitor to Trump. ****ing pathetic. Mattis is absolutely one of America's greatest historical Generals. When Trump is gone, they will all try to jump back on the wagon. As long as I'm here, **** that.
Trump supporters are pretty disgusting. There is no other way to put it.
 

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A "hell of a lot" is knowing a nickname? Does that sum up your career?

Because I don't know your branch's nickname for your ship I don't know "a hell of a lot" about what I have stated about military common sense? Do you realize that the military branches are full of people who have no idea what an aircraft carrier even really is? Big boat with planes? I don't know what you people might have nicknamed your forks either. The little stabber? Durp.

Anyways.. You are more than welcome to actually present some common sense yourself. For a retired Sailor, you appear to have a lot of contempt for the Navy that you would imply that this Captain was far too inexperienced to understand what a Chain-of-Command is and what proper procedures laid before him. Simply assuming that he jumped to this letter is foolish. And I will add that it appears to be a bit seasoned with your partisan politics. Something tells me that were a Democrat the President, you would be all about "supporting the troop" right now.
He failed.

He sent out a message through non secure channels that even a lowly E-2 would understand the repercussions, and he had sailors under his command emailing and calling home because of his panic.

And you just failed again by saying that I implied that the captain was inexperienced.
 

vegas giants

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That would be a mistake.

A Commander-in-Chief, especially one who dodged the draft, should know to stay out of internal military affairs. Once the Secretary of the Navy made this decision, it has to come down to the Secretary of the Navy to make another one. A Commander-in-Chief, despite his incidental position as given to him, has no business disrupting legal military cases, promoting ranks, and ruining careers. These things are disruptive to the Chain-of-Command.

The current one, despite being a draft-dodger, fancies himself as a king that sits on high. "Throw me a parade!" "Move that ship!" "Dismiss that case!" Etcetera.
If we have a new CIC we will have a new sec of the navy.
 

Captain America

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I don't understand the stabbing in the back part. I never experienced that in the Corps. There was always enough integrity going around that anybody who was "less-than" was kept in check. What was (and is) good for the Marine is good for the unit, and what was (and is) good for the unit is good for the Corps.... and vice versa.

I think the Marines are different in that way because our size allows for greater accountability. It's easier when everything revolves around a certain code, which comes with plenty of peer pressure.
For example: it would be far easier to maintain a certain behavioral standard in a group of 12 versus a group of 100. And since the Marines specializes in small unit warfare, each unit becomes a close-knit family that aggregates into other units. A lack of standards introduces weakness in the unit; and this weakness travels up. This is why fatties must pay and the higher up you go the more severe the discipline for a lack of standards. For example: a fat LCpl has time to be corrected, but a fat SNCO is finished with a single FITREP. Of course, this sort of relative accountability certainly exists in the other branches too. But there is something to the notion that it is apparently always Air Force, Army, and Navy field officers being caught lowering their own standards. McArthur? McChrystal? Patreaus? Tail-Hook? Defense industry scandals? The higher up you go, especially in those branches, the more separated and politicized they get. They lose track of what is important. Then they retire and move into their newly created positions within the Defense industry after lobbying on its behalf.

My guess is that this Navy Captain tried and failed to get the attention of his Chain-of-Command, which had lost the plot.
Great post. Thank you for your dedicated service bro.

I have instructed Aussies, Coasties, Turks, Israeli's, Marines and probably a few more. This is no slight to any branch of our valiant military but the Marines are in a class of their own. At least, from my personal observations. I swallow no pride saying they are the cream of the crop and the best America has to offer military-wise.

As we all know, the Marines are technically a part of the Navy. But I'll be the first to tell you, the "Navy" should be known as part of the "Marines." It was often joked that we, the Navy, we're the guys that gave the Marines a ride to work. And that's not far from the truth. It is also my observation that the Navy had some of the best and brightest minds our nation had to offer. Now, that wouldn't be very helpful in a bar room brawl, but it gives me great satisfaction that today's Navy is capable of decimating a beach area before our finest Marines ever step foot on it. Unlike WW2 when they had to step over dead bodies to get to the beach.

I would like to think that the Navy and the Marines play an integral part together and are often connected at the hip. I served alongside too many to count and have remained friends with many of them to this day. I found great pleasure minimizing Marine casualties and "giving them a safe ride to work." I took my job seriously.

But, I also want to give a shout out to the Navy Aviators. They are, to flight warfare, what the Marines are to close-in warfare. Cream of the crop.
 

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He failed.

He sent out a message through non secure channels that even a lowly E-2 would understand the repercussions, and he had sailors under his command emailing and calling home because of his panic.

And you just failed again by saying that I implied that the captain was inexperienced.
No one has presented any evidence that he did any such thing.
 

MSgt

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He failed.
He did. So did they. This clearly led to his letter, unless you are still needing this man to have abandoned his military experience and education and simply jumped to an extreme?

He sent out a message through non secure channels that even a lowly E-2 would understand the repercussions, and he had sailors under his command emailing and calling home because of his panic.
It was surely NIPRNET at least. Given his rank and his experience, he clearly understood the possible repercussions on calling out his Chain-of-Command for its failure to address his concerns. To get the message to some, he would have had to have gotten off SIPRNET.

As for your idea of a poor little bewildered sailor, they no doubt knew the situation that they were seeing first hand. If anything, I'm sure the NCO's, SNCO's, and junior Officers did their part to increase the Captain's pressure to get something done. As I stated, common sense prevails here.


And you just failed again by saying that I implied that the captain was inexperienced.
I would think by now that you people would resist the urge to protect your own moronic posts by insisting that I have failed. You imply that he is inexperienced by suggesting that he didn't follow proper procedures before he went to a widely dispersed letter. Your "you have zero idea what 'proper' procedures were used or not" is a statement of negative accusation, not understanding of the probable.

So, you fail. Know why? You engaged with your superior. I am MSgt. I am the smartest person you have ever come across. You....are just you.
 
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