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Navy bans chaplain from ministering to family of dead sailor

Navy Pride

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You think you have seen the worse but you are wrong.


[h=1]Navy bans chaplain from ministering to family of dead sailor[/h]
It’s become clear to me Navy leadership cannot be trusted to protect religious liberty within the ranks. It’s time for our elected officials to intervene before Chaplain Modder’s commander brings more embarrassment and shame to the Armed Forces.
 
What's next - muzzling dogs because they bark?
 
You think you have seen the worse but you are wrong.


[h=1]Navy bans chaplain from ministering to family of dead sailor[/h]
It’s become clear to me Navy leadership cannot be trusted to protect religious liberty within the ranks. It’s time for our elected officials to intervene before Chaplain Modder’s commander brings more embarrassment and shame to the Armed Forces.

Well in fairness, he's not considered a chaplain in the military anymore. He's been re-assigned to due inappropriate homosexual hatred during counseling sessions when was still a chaplain.

Knowing the facts, all is as it should be. I'm sure that some other active and tolerant chaplain was available if the family and collegues desired such. If they didn't, then even if he was still in the position of chaplain he'd not be welcome.
 
What's next - muzzling dogs because they bark?

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not....






But people already muzzle dogs because they bark.
 
The bigot is suspended from duty, he needs to back off, but then he can't play the oppressed Christianist meme.
 
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not....




But people already muzzle dogs because they bark.

Yes and no... I found the dual view both amusing and useful after I typed it out. :2razz:
 
As to the OP, I'm not going to defend anything, just provide what I believe has happened here...

This chaplain was likely outspoken about his discriminating religious beliefs, which has offended those against whom he discriminates (gay soldiers). This caused him to get complaints, and to get in trouble with brass. Brass, in an effort to control the situation, are trying to limit this outspoken person's contact with other fellow soldiers. After all, he WAS relieved of his duties, so him tending to a family in any official capacity would be against orders.

That's my take.




Verdict?


If your gonna let gays into the military, you have to change a few things dealing with the way military handles religious matters, especially for those religions who preach intolerance.
 
The bigot is suspended from duty, he needs to back off.

I'd like to see a large lawsuit against the Navy.... restriction of 1st Amendment rights. The pro-gay contingent would line up with the Navy (irony) and the pro-religion groups would line up with the Chaplain (not ironic at all).
 
I'd like to see a large lawsuit against the Navy.... restriction of 1st Amendment rights. The pro-gay contingent would line up with the Navy (irony) and the pro-religion groups would line up with the Chaplain (not ironic at all).

He doesn't have a first amendment right when completing his duties as chaplain. He wasn't removed from the position because of his beliefs or his private conversations. He was removed because of the way he was directing his religiosity during counseling sessions, even with those that were offended by it.
 
If your gonna let gays into the military, you have to change a few things dealing with the way military handles religious matters, especially for those religions who preach intolerance.

It was bound to happen right? Yet, I seem to recall the oath I had to take joining the Army, something about upholding the Constitution...... the 1st Amendment says "Freedom of religion" yet the Navy has issued punitive actions against this Chaplain who was simply speaking his views of religion, which in the Navy, was his job as a chaplain. Now the Navy doesn't have to uphold the Constitution because they don't like what the Chaplain said or more accurately, what the Chaplain's religion states?

Let me put it this way --- if it was an Islamic Navy Imam (if there is such a thing) who espoused the same thing, would he have been relieved and busted down like this? Hmm.... :think:
 
As to the OP, I'm not going to defend anything, just provide what I believe has happened here...

This chaplain was likely outspoken about his discriminating religious beliefs, which has offended those against whom he discriminates (gay soldiers). This caused him to get complaints, and to get in trouble with brass. Brass, in an effort to control the situation, are trying to limit this outspoken person's contact with other fellow soldiers. After all, he WAS relieved of his duties, so him tending to a family in any official capacity would be against orders.

That's my take.




Verdict?


If your gonna let gays into the military, you have to change a few things dealing with the way military handles religious matters, especially for those religions who preach intolerance.

I think that's right on in assessment. He so obviously couldn't or wouldn't do his duties as Chaplain (which are different than those of minister/pastor) and was relieved.
 
Here's the thing. We don't know.


Maybe this guy was actively focusing on gay soldiers...maybe he was harassing them, or making passive aggressive (or NOT so passive, as is often the case with forum members like Bob Baylock) comments meant to hurt or deride...

Or MAYBE he was just doing his job, and over the course of preaching sermons, thin skinned gays decided they were offended by the message. And complained. And PR decided that they had bast nip it in the bud, regardless of fault, and benched the dude.

We don't know.

But boy, I'll tell you, this will be a major test of faith for any future would be military chaplain. Because for a religion that seems to require a compulsion to convert and compel others into the fold, placing the JOB ahead of the FAITH is likely not going to be a big draw.

This could turn into a bit of an issue here.
 
You think you have seen the worse but you are wrong.


[h=1]Navy bans chaplain from ministering to family of dead sailor[/h]
It’s become clear to me Navy leadership cannot be trusted to protect religious liberty within the ranks. It’s time for our elected officials to intervene before Chaplain Modder’s commander brings more embarrassment and shame to the Armed Forces.



That really is appalling.
 
It was bound to happen right? Yet, I seem to recall the oath I had to take joining the Army, something about upholding the Constitution...... the 1st Amendment says "Freedom of religion" yet the Navy has issued punitive actions against this Chaplain who was simply speaking his views of religion, which in the Navy, was his job as a chaplain. Now the Navy doesn't have to uphold the Constitution because they don't like what the Chaplain said or more accurately, what the Chaplain's religion states?

Let me put it this way --- if it was an Islamic Navy Imam (if there is such a thing) who espoused the same thing, would he have been relieved and busted down like this? Hmm.... :think:

Freedom of religion means the ability to practice any religion you choose, so long as it doesn't aversly affect those around you. It does NOT mean you are free to preach and harass others at the workplace.

His job as chaplain is NOT to be a priest, or a seminary, it's to be a religious voice for THOSE WHO SEEK IT.

Now, was he harassing anyone, or was he simply doing his job and got complaints? We don't know.
 
He was suspended for breaches of his employment rules, not his religion. The point of suspension is to remove you from the workplace, without prejudice, until the investigation of the complaint against you is resolved. That would stop you doing your job, which is what the chorus of whining's about.
 
He doesn't have a first amendment right when completing his duties as chaplain. He wasn't removed from the position because of his beliefs or his private conversations. He was removed because of the way he was directing his religiosity during counseling sessions, even with those that were offended by it.

After reading both stories, the allegations and complaints came from a gay Chaplains assistant that asked him direct questions regarding his personal faith.
As to what was or wasnt said during one on one counseling sessions...the only way that would be known is if said Chaplains assistant violated confidentiality and opened personal and confidential files. There are no reports of pastoral counselee complaints.
 
Freedom of religion means the ability to practice any religion you choose, so long as it doesn't aversly affect those around you. It does NOT mean you are free to preach and harass others at the workplace.
I didn't see any harassment. Chaplain's frequently preach though, that's their job. The Constitution doesn't say "Freedom of religion, so long as it doesn't adversely affect those around you." Or perhaps you are reading a different Constitution.

His job as chaplain is NOT to be a priest, or a seminary, it's to be a religious voice for THOSE WHO SEEK IT.

Here's how the Navy describes it:

Lend Support & Lead a Ministry as a US Navy Chaplain : Navy.com

US Navy said:
Chaplains offer everything from faith leadership to personal advice to much-needed solace. All while living up to the guiding principles of the Chaplain Mission:

- Providing religious ministry and support to those of your own faith
- Facilitating the religious requirements of those from all faiths
- Caring for all servicemembers and their families, including those subscribing to no specific faith
- Advising the command in ensuring the free exercise of religion


Navy Chaplains immerse themselves in the daily lives of service members. In what can be best described as a ministry of presence, they are there to offer guidance and insight in the moment, whenever they’re needed.

This could be on land or at sea. When presiding over religious ceremonies on a base or conducting services from the flight deck of an aircraft carrier. Navy Chaplains may serve literally anywhere in the world.


Now, was he harassing anyone, or was he simply doing his job and got complaints? We don't know.

Exactly - nothing so far about harassment.
 
I didn't see any harassment. Chaplain's frequently preach though, that's their job. The Constitution doesn't say "Freedom of religion, so long as it doesn't adversely affect those around you." Or perhaps you are reading a different Constitution.
And yet, if your religion required live human sacrifices, you'd be tried for murder, religious freedom be damned...And if your "freely" exersize and vocalize your religion at just about any job in the US you'll get **** canned in a hurry. No matter WHAT religion you are.






Chaplains offer everything from faith leadership to personal advice to much-needed solace. All while living up to the guiding principles of the Chaplain Mission:

- Providing religious ministry and support to those of your own faith
- Facilitating the religious requirements of those from all faiths
- Caring for all servicemembers and their families, including those subscribing to no specific faith
- Advising the command in ensuring the free exercise of religion


Navy Chaplains immerse themselves in the daily lives of service members. In what can be best described as a ministry of presence, they are there to offer guidance and insight in the moment, whenever they’re needed.

This could be on land or at sea. When presiding over religious ceremonies on a base or conducting services from the flight deck of an aircraft carrier. Navy Chaplains may serve literally anywhere in the world.

Lot's of things on this list would prevent a navy chaplain from ever speaking a word about christianity and it's tenets to those who don't wish them to do so, like...gays, for example. The problem is, christianity COMPELS you as a GOOD christian to spread the good word, to save as many souls as you can. And while they would call it soul saving or whatever, others can and DO call it harassment.
Exactly - nothing so far about harassment.

Nope, not yet. And to be honest, will we every REALLY know? I mean, not to impune either side, but this could well just be a battle of the liars. A matter of opinion, of what, exactly, harassment entails, lol. Was it a case of thin skinned gays, or a case of a religious zealot?

I can tell you my completely anecdotal based opinion, and that is...I have known many gays, and many christians, and of the two, thin skinned applies to WAY fewer gays than zealot would apply to the christians. But time will tell.
 
You think you have seen the worse but you are wrong. Navy bans chaplain from ministering to family of dead sailor
It’s become clear to me Navy leadership cannot be trusted to protect religious liberty within the ranks. It’s time for our elected officials to intervene before Chaplain Modder’s commander brings more embarrassment and shame to the Armed Forces.

First did you read the ENTIRE article, second were you really in the Navy?

The Chaplain knows the REGULATIONS the Navy operates under- EVERYONE is subject to the regs. The Military PROTECTS the Constitution, it doesn't exercise it... ALL vets knows this. First amendment my shiny hiney- try telling your CO what you REALLY think of him and his plan of maneuver. :roll:

Suddenly surprised the Military behaves the EXACT same way it did when you and I were lean and mean???? :doh
 
And yet, if your religion required live human sacrifices, you'd be tried for murder, religious freedom be damned...And if your "freely" exersize and vocalize your religion at just about any job in the US you'll get **** canned in a hurry. No matter WHAT religion you are.
That doesn't address the point - which is the Constitution protects Freedom of Religion and in this case no one was murdered... so the extremist view isn't applicable nor is the comparison. Either the oath taken applies or it doesn't. Either the Constitution is upheld or it's not. The military is very black and white that way.

Lot's of things on this list would prevent a navy chaplain from ever speaking a word about christianity and it's tenets to those who don't wish them to do so, like...gays, for example. The problem is, christianity COMPELS you as a GOOD christian to spread the good word, to save as many souls as you can. And while they would call it soul saving or whatever, others can and DO call it harassment.
It's not like the military is new to Christianity. I haven't known many Army chaplains and only ever met probably two in my life. But both were Christian and if asked they would have no problem talking about faith if that's where the conversation goes. Christianity hasn't changed much in the last 100 years. My question still stands: If this was an Islamic Imam instead of a Christian Chaplain would the same thing take place? Doubt it....



Nope, not yet. And to be honest, will we every REALLY know? I mean, not to impune either side, but this could well just be a battle of the liars. A matter of opinion, of what, exactly, harassment entails, lol. Was it a case of thin skinned gays, or a case of a religious zealot?
It's possible but it's difficult to rise in the ranks (as Chaplains are officers) without finding out one is a religious zealot. Will we ever know? Sure - the Chaplain I'm sure will discuss it after he's drummed out which is how it looks like this is going to play out.
 
First did you read the ENTIRE article, second were you really in the Navy?

The Chaplain knows the REGULATIONS the Navy operates under- EVERYONE is subject to the regs. The Military PROTECTS the Constitution, it doesn't exercise it... ALL vets knows this. First amendment my shiny hiney- try telling your CO what you REALLY think of him and his plan of maneuver. :roll:

Suddenly surprised the Military behaves the EXACT same way it did when you and I were lean and mean???? :doh

Did you read the articles? The first makes some form of vague allegations. The second states that a LT was assigned to him and spent a month asking him questions about his personal belief on homosexuality (shocking to learn that the Lt was gay and married).
"Modder’s troubles started on Dec. 6 when an assistant in his office showed up to work with a pair of Equal Opportunity representatives and a five-page complaint documenting grievances against the chaplain.

The lieutenant junior grade officer went on to detail concerns about Moody’s views on “same-sex relationships/marriages, homosexuality, different standards of respect for men and women, pre-marital sex and masturbation.”

Modder said the young officer had only been working with him for about a month and would constantly pepper him with questions pertaining to homosexuality. He had no idea that the officer was in fact gay – and married to another man."

Does a chaplain have a right to answer questions asked of him directly? Is merely having a differing opinion (and one that...shockingly...is in line with a religious belief...something REQUIRED to have in order to become a chaplain) allowed?
 
I'd like to see a large lawsuit against the Navy.... restriction of 1st Amendment rights. The pro-gay contingent would line up with the Navy (irony) and the pro-religion groups would line up with the Chaplain (not ironic at all).

Pro religious groups would line up with the ex-Chaplain? Doubtful. How about if the ex-chaplain refused to minister to black sailors? Would the 'pro-religious groups' line up with him then? No difference.
 
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