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Natural Healing

Maxmillian

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First, I will define what I will be writing about here:
Vegitiarianism
Full moon nonsense
Crystal healing
Acupuncture

Last things first: acupuncture. Yes, people literally go up to a guy and say "My back hurts, stick some needles in that bitch". The main problem with Natural healing is what defines it as "natural" (to some people), is that it's never tested. I don't have a bottle of Chi in my chemicals collection, and I never will. If I have a disease, I'm going to a hospital, not Margeret the Lonely Housewife.

Crystal healing. That stuff's a laugh a minute (and not because people spend their paychecks thinking a giant Quartz crystal will get rid of Parkinison's). How can anyone actually believe an inanimate lump of carbon will actually help you if you hold it OUTSIDE your body, where it can't really do much of anything? Even if it were inside you body, it would probly cut up your digestive system a lot.

Full-moon nonsense. People actually think this effects them. People believe in biological tides, that, because your body 70% water, it would change your behaviour. Forgetting the fact that tides happen because the oceans are near-still giant bodies of water, and that the water in our bodies is usually absorbed in tissue, and is in constant tumult from the heartbeat, and exerting different pressures and such at different times, so, the slight pull of the moon's gravity will do nothing. Also, a full moon has nothing to do with gravity, it has to do with how much light is hitting it. Tides change every day, yet when a full moon's out, guess what changes? Nothing. Same tide effect, and I don't see how the minimal extra light emitted by the moon could effect you in any way shape or form.

Vegitiarianism. I'm not even going to go there.

So....discuss.
 

Naughty Nurse

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For acupuncture, see here

I will try to find more.

It's not as simple as you think!

Full moon - as a nurse who has (unfortunately) a lot of experience of night duty, I do believe, but can't prove, that the moon can impact on people's mood, but impact on health? Probably not.
 

ngdawg

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*sigh*
Acupuncture is thousands of years old, NOT done by lonely housewives, but licensed( supposed to be and if you go to one not licensed, you deserve what you get) practitioners. It works on the basis of nerve stimulation. See, in case you missed this class in biology, I will summarize: the body is completely covered in little itty bitty wires called 'nerves' and they all flow from the spinal column which is attached to the cerebral cortex which is attached to our brains. By stimulating certain nerves, reactions occur-one of two at least. A deadening of feeling, ie: pain or an increase of feeling. By knowing where to place these 'needles', the practioner knows what type of stimulation to go for. There is a side bonus to all this: the brain cannot separate two distinct pains; therefore, one lessens or desimates completely.
Try this at home: Have your SO hit your hand with a hammer. Hurts, right? Now, have her bite your big toe as hard as can be. Hand pain lessens!!
Vegetarianism (please learn to spell things before you berate them)
How does this affect YOU? Don't like veggies, fine. Like BBQ? Me too. I also like a good spinach salad on occasion, but won't wear a fur coat, but have leather shoes. It's preference, get over it.
Full Moon again, apprently you missed this class in high school:
What are Lunar Tides
Tides are created because the Earth and the moon are attracted to each other, just like magnets are attracted to each other. The moon tries to pull at anything on the Earth to bring it closer. But, the Earth is able to hold onto everything except the water. Since the water is always moving, the Earth cannot hold onto it, and the moon is able to pull at it. Each day, there are two high tides and two low tides. The ocean is constantly moving from high tide to low tide, and then back to high tide. There is about 12 hours and 25 minutes between the two high tides.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moontides/
As far as the effect on the full moon on people, while studies have been inconclusive, ask any cop, nurse or doctor about their shifts during a full moon phase. (Personally, I greet each full moon with a bow and a prayer, but that's me)
Crystal Healing This too is thousands of years old and has some basis in science, but is not as exact as acupuncture, etc. Clocks, watches, etc. run on crystals and jewels because of energy they both absorb and transmit. Since all life matter is a form of energy, stands to reason there might be reaction to opposing energies. Do some research.
 

Maxmillian

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ngdawg said:
*sigh*
Acupuncture is thousands of years old, NOT done by lonely housewives, but licensed( supposed to be and if you go to one not licensed, you deserve what you get) practitioners. It works on the basis of nerve stimulation. See, in case you missed this class in biology, I will summarize: the body is completely covered in little itty bitty wires called 'nerves' and they all flow from the spinal column which is attached to the cerebral cortex which is attached to our brains. By stimulating certain nerves, reactions occur-one of two at least. A deadening of feeling, ie: pain or an increase of feeling. By knowing where to place these 'needles', the practioner knows what type of stimulation to go for. There is a side bonus to all this: the brain cannot separate two distinct pains; therefore, one lessens or desimates completely.
Try this at home: Have your SO hit your hand with a hammer. Hurts, right? Now, have her bite your big toe as hard as can be. Hand pain lessens!!
Sweet, I still have the same total amount of pain! Only now, I have TWO injuries to deal with, but with only the pain of one!

Vegetarianism (please learn to spell things before you berate them)
How does this affect YOU? Don't like veggies, fine. Like BBQ? Me too. I also like a good spinach salad on occasion, but won't wear a fur coat, but have leather shoes. It's preference, get over it.
Well, I'm talking about people who shove it down your throat constantly. Like this kid in my class, he actually punches people if they buy chicken fingers at the cafeteria.

Full Moon again, apprently you missed this class in high school:
What are Lunar Tides
Tides are created because the Earth and the moon are attracted to each other, just like magnets are attracted to each other. The moon tries to pull at anything on the Earth to bring it closer. But, the Earth is able to hold onto everything except the water. Since the water is always moving, the Earth cannot hold onto it, and the moon is able to pull at it. Each day, there are two high tides and two low tides. The ocean is constantly moving from high tide to low tide, and then back to high tide. There is about 12 hours and 25 minutes between the two high tides.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moontides/
Thanks for informing me why tides happen. That's useful information for someone who lives on a boat on the west coast (me). So, HOW DO THEY EFFECT US??! Like I said, full moons have NOTHING to do with tides, it has to do with how much light hits the moon, IE where the Sun and Earth are in relation to the moon.
As far as the effect on the full moon on people, while studies have been inconclusive, ask any cop, nurse or doctor about their shifts during a full moon phase. (Personally, I greet each full moon with a bow and a prayer, but that's me)
Cop, nurses, doctors....all sound like scientists to me. Choke on this theory: they believe that things go all haywire during a full moon, so they tend to remember the things that do go wrong on a full moon, as opposed to when it's not. Get it?

Crystal Healing This too is thousands of years old and has some basis in science, but is not as exact as acupuncture, etc. Clocks, watches, etc. run on crystals and jewels because of energy they both absorb and transmit. Since all life matter is a form of energy, stands to reason there might be reaction to opposing energies. Do some research.[/QUOTE]

Oh, it's thousands of years old, it must work. I suppose we can all believe the world is flat, because that theory is old too.

Quartz and other crystals only vibrate in response to stimulation and at a certain rate. This rate is extremely consistent and this is how clocks keep time. Also, "life matter is a form of energy"? Matter and energy are two completely different things. And, if there were any reaction, whether nuclear, physical or chemical, we'd be able to detect it. There's a reason those studies were "inconclusive": nothing's happening.

Do some research.


Another thing I'd like to add. Astrology: How can big rocks and pockets of gas predict your future? I was looking at the horoscopes today, and mine, Pisces, applied to me. Yes, it actually seemed plausible. Then I looked at Leo, Aquarius, Virgo, etc., and guess what? They all applied to me! They all said stuff like "now is a time for change", "old friends may visit you" and "you will breathe today", redundant stuff that happens to everybody.
 

ngdawg

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Yes, matter and energy are two different things, but matter HAS energy. Why do those crystals, etc. vibrate and respond by transmitting energy? Other things vibrate(anything can, actually), but they're not used in machinery because they wouldn't react the same way.
Punch the guy back, but don't say all are the same as one ass. That's like saying all women are pornstars. Nope.
You asked about the full moon and tides. Personally, I have never heard of it only being the full moon affecting the water. But, in regards to behavior, what I meant when saying to ask a cop, etc, is they see an increase in irrational behaviors, not that, "oh yea, we get a bunch of idiots during full moons as well". They're called 'lunatics' based on very old folklore and theories which have some basis in factual observations.
The sarcastic 'world is flat' isn't even a good joke of an argument-it's totally disproven-the others are not and while they aren't conclusively 'proven', I won't completely dismiss them either.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a cauldron that needs my attention before the skies go black.
 

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ngdawg said:
Yes, matter and energy are two different things, but matter HAS energy. Why do those crystals, etc. vibrate and respond by transmitting energy? Other things vibrate(anything can, actually), but they're not used in machinery because they wouldn't react the same way.
Punch the guy back, but don't say all are the same as one ass. That's like saying all women are pornstars. Nope.
You asked about the full moon and tides. Personally, I have never heard of it only being the full moon affecting the water. But, in regards to behavior, what I meant when saying to ask a cop, etc, is they see an increase in irrational behaviors, not that, "oh yea, we get a bunch of idiots during full moons as well". They're called 'lunatics' based on very old folklore and theories which have some basis in factual observations.
The sarcastic 'world is flat' isn't even a good joke of an argument-it's totally disproven-the others are not and while they aren't conclusively 'proven', I won't completely dismiss them either.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a cauldron that needs my attention before the skies go black.
Nothing vibrates without being stimulated to do so, but once it does, it has a resonant frequency. Crystal therapy is only successful at reducing the weighto of a stupid person's wallet....:2wave:
 

ngdawg

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Personally, I wouldn't know about 'Crystal Therapy' since I never tried it...however, if a person believes something works for them, I am not the one to dispute it or rain on their parade. I have tried certain alternatives for minor physical problems and they have worked. The power of cooperation and the mind, along with sincere belief in the remedy chosen, many times can improve if not irradicate the malady. (this does not endorse out and out quackery and
fraud, ie: "pay me $1,000 and I guarantee my prayers will heal your cancer, along with my magic herbs for only an additional $19.95")
But there are many ancient practices that have evolved and been incorporated into modern medicine, acupuncture being just one, to the point of being covered by most insurances. Even Chiropractics has its basis in ancient therapies involving points of energy through the body-it's just evolved to what's accepted today.
The use of maggots to reduce wound infection and leeches to prevent blood clotting is nothing new, just rediscovered. Sometimes there's just something to be said for those old wives tales....
 

tecoyah

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I would recommend YOU avoid any form of holistic healing....as you quite obviously have no faith in it, and do not require it. There are many who do believe in it though, and are attempting to discuss it as you asked. Though it is not your intent to actually have people talk about this (instead you posted this thread to bless us with your insight), perhaps an open mind may be helpful...as it certainly wont hurt anything but "Your Wallet".
I am a Reiki practitioner, and believe in the effect it has....but I would certainly never try to Push it on someone, that would be counter productive. No one asks you to subject yourself to alternative forms of treatment for any Ills you may have, But you bear resemblance to the Jehovahs that knocked on my door the other day....Mind Closed, and blinders on.
 

ngdawg

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In rereading the thread opener, I'm confused just a bit....isn't the purpose of opening a topic to discussion to learn about it and about how others feel so that the unknown becomes known?
It would appear in the counter-responses that you merely needed a place to play 'Archie Bunker' for a few minutes....
While you may be closed-minded to the replies we have put forth and do care to learn anything, we have learned a great deal...about you, so thank you.
 

Maxmillian

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ngdawg said:
In rereading the thread opener, I'm confused just a bit....isn't the purpose of opening a topic to discussion to learn about it and about how others feel so that the unknown becomes known?
It would appear in the counter-responses that you merely needed a place to play 'Archie Bunker' for a few minutes....
While you may be closed-minded to the replies we have put forth and do care to learn anything, we have learned a great deal...about you, so thank you.
Well, thank you for your valuable insight. I'd be glad to reply to MOMENT you post something of substance.
 

ngdawg

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Maxmillian said:
Well, thank you for your valuable insight. I'd be glad to reply to MOMENT you post something of substance.
You just did.....:2wave:
 

tecoyah

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Just an observation Max, and I hope you dont take this as a bash on your age...as it is not intended to be one, more on life experience. Natural, or Holistic healing is something that is a very personal choice, and isnt likely to become valuable until it is experienced. At 13 yrs old I wouldnt expect anyone, regardless of IQ to see the benefit.

"This is a fair warning to everyone on this forum: treat me as you would a grown man."

You will be treated as a grown man, until such time as you prove unworthy of such, but to expect respect in this regard is setting yourself up for dissapointment , in my experience. There are times when the years spent on this earth, and the experiences these years have thrown in your face give a certain amount of insight , as yet unavailable to youth. Just something to consider when attempting to express opinion on subjects that "May" require you to actually live through them.
 

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I know of an occasion where a Naturopath almost killed a woman with his stupidity. She was carrying her 5th or 6th child and her NEW husband wanted her to see a naturopath instead of her regular doctor. Her old husband had been killed in an accident. All her previous children had been a bit small at birth, so the Dr. encouraged her to take lots of vitamins during the pregnancy. The baby was so large that she damn near bled to death at delivery. The Dr. screwed up by not considering the NEW husband factor. She had more children with new husband, without the new Dr. and vitamins and all were larger than with her first husband.
I am all for the regular doctors first, and if the situation is such that you have nothing to lose except money, then go for the mumbo jumbo, voodoo, and witchcraft that desperate people often do.
BTW, the new husband learned his lesson. He had stomach problems that doctors could not diagnose, until he found one that knew that sometimes heart problems are manifested that way. After his bypass, no more stomach problems. In later years, had a co-worker with the same exact problems, and it took almost 3 years before they decided his was heart related as well.
So you can get bad care from regular doctors as well. Few of them know as much as we would like them to know.
 

ngdawg

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As you stated, there are bad ones in the mainstream medical field as well. Had the person died from the misdiagnosis of one doctor, all are idiots? It's interesting that you would forgive the medical community its failings, but not the alternative practices, instead lumping it as 'mumbo-jumbo', simply because you have not sought to learn about it or experience it. That is your perogative of course, but (and not knowing your profession), if one in your line of work messed up, does that then make you incompetent?
 

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ngdawg said:
As you stated, there are bad ones in the mainstream medical field as well. Had the person died from the misdiagnosis of one doctor, all are idiots? It's interesting that you would forgive the medical community its failings, but not the alternative practices, instead lumping it as 'mumbo-jumbo', simply because you have not sought to learn about it or experience it. That is your perogative of course, but (and not knowing your profession), if one in your line of work messed up, does that then make you incompetent?
You need to learn to read, and read what I said, instead of guessing at what I mean. You are not very good at reading between the lines. First, there has to be a hidden message between the lines, and there IS NOT.
I never said that all were idiots.
Where did I say that I forgive anyone? Or need to?
Where did I imply that one mistake is cause for calling anyone incompetent?
There are incompetent doctors, and electronics technicians like myself, but that shows up with repeated mistakes, not the occasional one.
I don't know how young you are, but I have been around long enough to remember chiropractors advertising that they can cure almost everything by manipulating the spine. That is ridiculous to anyone with an education, much less a medical education.
My TV viewing is Law and Order, that 70's show, News, and almost anything on the Discovery, Science, Discovery Health, PBS, etc. that piques my interests, which are many and varied. There have been lots of quacks in regular and alternative medicine that have been brought to justice after long terms of dispensing bad medicine. And there have even been some doctors who have had to fight the establishment to prove that their ideas have merit.
One doctor proved that stomach ulcers can easily be treated by anti-biotics instead of surgery, but it was a long hard haul doing it. Another, in Brazil, I think, proved that enlarged hearts could often be surgically reduced in size rather than doing a transplant.
But, overall, it is safe to say that the one doctor standing alone against the establishment is usually wrong.
I will take my chances with the regular doctors. You can choose the alternative ones if that suits you. But I suspect that when your life is on the line, you will forget about alternative treatment, at least until all mainstream treatments have proved ineffective.
 

ngdawg

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I don't read between the lines. You said " am all for the regular doctors first, and if the situation is such that you have nothing to lose except money, then go for the mumbo jumbo, voodoo, and witchcraft that desperate people often do." You lumped one group but not another based on whatever it is that you know and know second hand (an assumption, since you did not say this was YOUR wife) by referring to it as mumbo-jumbo,etc., your words not mine. Then went on to mention someone who was misdiagnosed, dangerously so, it would seem, until another doctor found the problem, but that's ok, he's fine now. Perhaps so would have been the pregnant woman had she found a midwife or holistic practioner who actually knew what they were doing.
I honestly am perplexed as to what tv shows have to do with any of this....
As for youth, I shall not see that again unless I am reincarnated.
 

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ngdawg said:
I don't read between the lines. You said " am all for the regular doctors first, and if the situation is such that you have nothing to lose except money, then go for the mumbo jumbo, voodoo, and witchcraft that desperate people often do." You lumped one group but not another based on whatever it is that you know and know second hand (an assumption, since you did not say this was YOUR wife) by referring to it as mumbo-jumbo,etc., your words not mine. Then went on to mention someone who was misdiagnosed, dangerously so, it would seem, until another doctor found the problem, but that's ok, he's fine now. Perhaps so would have been the pregnant woman had she found a midwife or holistic practioner who actually knew what they were doing.
I honestly am perplexed as to what tv shows have to do with any of this....
As for youth, I shall not see that again unless I am reincarnated.
MOST alternative medicines ARE mumbo jumbo. Some will be proven right, but that is no reason to jump into all of them as tho they have proven value to our health. I don't know what my line of work has to do with the issue, but you brought that up. I watch enough medical related shows on the educational channels that I have learned to be suspect of anyone claiming to be able to heal where all other doctors have failed. 99% of the time, they are liars. The info about the naturopath isn't second hand, as it happened to a family we were close to, and the local paper reported similar instances about the quack. A reponsible midwife would have sent her to the hospital, as she was obviously delivering a very large baby.
You can be a proponent of alternative medicines all you want, but when you decide to become a missionary for the faith, expect to have others challenge your beliefs. That is what we do here, this is a debate forum.
 

ngdawg

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As a debate forum, then expect your side as well to be questioned even when it supports a proven theory or practice.
As with anything else I would sink my barely-had dollars into, I would certainly want to know the benefits. I wouldn't call someone who merely says they are 'electrical technicians' to do what I need done electrically, I'd want to know what they are capable of, get recommendations from others, etc. It's no different with doctor choosing or alternatives. As I had previously posted, some of what you call 'mumbo-jumbo' are accepted practices, enough so to be covered by medical insurance,ie: acupuncture, chiropractics, midwifery.
I myself am a born sceptic, preferring to research, ask questions, get opinions before delving into anything. An uninformed choice is a stupid one. But one must also be open-minded enough to seek this information out to begin with and decide if it's worth using and not just blindly call what one does not know about 'mumbo-jumbo, voodoo and witchcraft'. Some is, some ain't.
 

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ngdawg said:
Some is, some ain't.
I said that, I used the word MOST. and I stand by it.
Yes, medical science has relearned the benefits of leaches, maggots, etc., but that is only a small portion of old time medical practices that typically do more harm than good. Just look at a 19th century Sears Catalog!
One rule of thumb that I like, if they advertise their cures on TV, be very, very suspicious.
BTW, insurance companies pay for a lot of treatments that never become cures. Look at the cure rate for the mental health profession. I have only known a handful of those over the last 40 of my 59 years, but of those, all but 2 seemed to be off their nut themselves.
 
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ngdawg

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Not once have I ever mentioned cures. Not once did I even indicate I would seek alternatives for cures. Not once did I say that the alternative medicines that insurance covers is used for cures.
You could say the same 'cure rates' for lung cancer, pancreatic cancer, mental retardation, hemophelia(sp), the list goes on...it bears no weight.
I know alternatives are not going to have a higher 'fix' rate (not cure) than the latest science...possibly. I also know that studies have shown that the mental well-being of a patient has almost as much to do with healing as prescribed treatments. Research 'humor and illness' or 'humor in conjunction with medicine'-any combo. Alternative medicines and treatments, such as Reiki, when used in conjunction with recognized traditional medical treatment can have a profound positive effect on the patient. Some believe in the power of prayer-I'm not qualified to sit here and tell them it doesn't work any more than you are. For believers, it very well may.
 

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Here is a good link that helps explain how acupuncture and chiropractic medicine helps.

http://www.healingsprings.com/ENDORPHINS.htm

Seems that releasing endorphins makes you feel better, sort of a natural high due to the brain releasing opiate type chemicals into the body.

Based on what I read there, a good round of sex has just as much healing power as acupuncture or a visit to the back-cracker. I wonder how long before our insurance companies start paying for visits to the red light district?:rofl
 

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UtahBill said:
Based on what I read there, a good round of sex has just as much healing power as acupuncture or a visit to the back-cracker. I wonder how long before our insurance companies start paying for visits to the red light district?:rofl
It could be argued.:rofl

I'll be sure to cite this when I talk to my fiance tonight.:lol:
 

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Maxmillian said:
Cop, nurses, doctors....all sound like scientists to me. Choke on this theory: they believe that things go all haywire during a full moon, so they tend to remember the things that do go wrong on a full moon, as opposed to when it's not. Get it?
It's not that things go wrong more often on a full moon, in my experience. But many patients really do seem to be more restless at this point in the lunar cycle.
 

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ShullsM said:
It could be argued.:rofl

I'll be sure to cite this when I talk to my fiance tonight.:lol:
Supposedly makes you live longer as well, so you can call it anti-aging when you approach your middle aged wife/girl friend. Only works within a committed relationship, tho. Guys who get it on the street don't live longer, for obvious reasons. :smile:
 

ngdawg

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Actually, massage and orgasm will eradicate a headache, so if that fiancee says, not tonight, I have a headache, tell her you have the perfect holistic cure for it.
 
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