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NATO official says alliance would be forced to take action if Russia uses chemical, nuclear weapons

Rogue Valley

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NATO official says alliance would be forced to take action if Russia uses chemical, nuclear weapons

iu


3.26.22
NATO Deputy-General Secretary Mircea Geoana said in an interview with The Associated Press that the group would respond if Russia used chemical or nuclear weapons in its war against Ukraine. "NATO is a defensive alliance, but also it's a nuclear alliance," said Geoana, who is also the former Romanian foreign minister and ambassador to the United States. "If they will be using chemical weapons or other kinds of higher-end systems against Ukraine, this will be changing fundamentally the nature of the war that Mr. Putin has waged against Ukraine." "I can guarantee that NATO is ready to respond proportionately," Geoana added. Russia has become more desperate as the war has gone on for more than a month, with Russian forces previously believing they would take over Ukraine within days.

"Mr. Putin probably believed his own post-imperial fantasies, thinking that Ukrainians will welcome them with open arms," Geoana said. "In fact, they got very fierce resistance. We are convinced that today, even with reinforcements that are still coming into Ukraine, Russia does not possess the forces and the capacity to occupy the whole of Ukraine." NATO countries have been providing humanitarian and military aid to Ukraine, but have refrained from implementing a no-fly zone or giving fighter jets as the alliance sees those as moves that get the countries too directly involved in the fighting.

"If they will be using chemical weapons or other kinds of higher-end systems against Ukraine, this will be changing fundamentally the nature of the war that Mr. Putin has waged against Ukraine.
I can guarantee that NATO is ready to respond proportionately." - NATO Deputy-General Secretary Mircea Geoana

I all honesty, I have no working idea of what the above implies. Proportionately? How does NATO reply proportionately to Russia's use of a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine? To an attack with its Novichok nerve agent?
 
If it comes to it it will be NATO member states who decide what weapons to use, not NATO officials.
 
NATO official says alliance would be forced to take action if Russia uses chemical, nuclear weapons

iu




"If they will be using chemical weapons or other kinds of higher-end systems against Ukraine, this will be changing fundamentally the nature of the war that Mr. Putin has waged against Ukraine.
I can guarantee that NATO is ready to respond proportionately." - NATO Deputy-General Secretary Mircea Geoana

I all honesty, I have no working idea of what the above implies. Proportionately? How does NATO reply proportionately to Russia's use of a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine? To an attack with its Novichok nerve agent?

This seems to imply that if Putin uses “chemical weapons or other kinds of higher-end systems” even outside of NATO nations, that NATO would do something. What that something may be was intentionally left vague.

Proportional could mean NATO forces using conventional weapons against Russian targets (military and/or civilian) to inflict roughly the same number of casualties. The obvious question (if done inside Ukraine) is: how many Ukrainians or Ukrainian assets might be included as collateral damage in such a proportional NATO response?
 
NATO official says alliance would be forced to take action if Russia uses chemical, nuclear weapons

iu




"If they will be using chemical weapons or other kinds of higher-end systems against Ukraine, this will be changing fundamentally the nature of the war that Mr. Putin has waged against Ukraine.
I can guarantee that NATO is ready to respond proportionately." - NATO Deputy-General Secretary Mircea Geoana

I all honesty, I have no working idea of what the above implies. Proportionately? How does NATO reply proportionately to Russia's use of a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine? To an attack with its Novichok nerve agent?
I kinda figured this might end up being the case. Putzin using NCBs would be the last straw and NATO would have to respond to it with more then just promises of weapon deliveries.
 
NATO official says alliance would be forced to take action if Russia uses chemical, nuclear weapons

iu




"If they will be using chemical weapons or other kinds of higher-end systems against Ukraine, this will be changing fundamentally the nature of the war that Mr. Putin has waged against Ukraine.
I can guarantee that NATO is ready to respond proportionately." - NATO Deputy-General Secretary Mircea Geoana

I all honesty, I have no working idea of what the above implies. Proportionately? How does NATO reply proportionately to Russia's use of a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine? To an attack with its Novichok nerve agent?
Rogue Valley:

I join you in complete befuddlement about what these statements may imply about how and what proportional responses NATO may take if Russia uses non-conventional weapons in Ukraine. I suppose warnings must be given but threats like this will birth an escalation-spiral which may end very badly for much more of the world than Ukraine alone. Folks in power seem to be determined to put the mad back into MAD rather than to try to solve this crisis through tough negotiation and making hard choices. Greed and pride from both sides are shoving aside the reason and pragmatism needed by all three sides in this most recent powder-keg with a fast-burning fuse in Europe.

Be well and stay alive.
Evilroddy.
 
NATO official says alliance would be forced to take action if Russia uses chemical, nuclear weapons

iu




"If they will be using chemical weapons or other kinds of higher-end systems against Ukraine, this will be changing fundamentally the nature of the war that Mr. Putin has waged against Ukraine.
I can guarantee that NATO is ready to respond proportionately." - NATO Deputy-General Secretary Mircea Geoana

I all honesty, I have no working idea of what the above implies. Proportionately? How does NATO reply proportionately to Russia's use of a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine? To an attack with its Novichok nerve agent?
It probably involves sending very angry letters.
 
but threats like this will birth an escalation-spiral which may end very badly for much more of the world than Ukraine alone
Disagree. It's not a threat but a friendly warning. If we don't want that kind of talk floating around, maybe reporters should stop asking it.
Putin has escalated all he dares to and he's made a botch of it. He is not mad. Relax.
 
This seems to imply that if Putin uses “chemical weapons or other kinds of higher-end systems” even outside of NATO nations, that NATO would do something. What that something may be was intentionally left vague.

Proportional could mean NATO forces using conventional weapons against Russian targets (military and/or civilian) to inflict roughly the same number of casualties. The obvious question (if done inside Ukraine) is: how many Ukrainians or Ukrainian assets might be included as collateral damage in such a proportional NATO response?
ttwtt78640:

"If done inside Ukraine", is the part that worries me most. NATO attacking the Donbas or Crimea may trigger a wider war and a thermonuclear exchange. It is scaring the poop out of everyone I know.

Will the greed and pride of Mr. Putin combine with the fear and pride of NATO and European leaders to create a catastrophe the likes of which the world has never seen before? Oy vey!

Be well and stay alive.
Evilroddy.
 
Disagree. It's not a threat but a friendly warning. If we don't want that kind of talk floating around, maybe reporters should stop asking it.
Putin has escalated all he dares to and he's made a botch of it. He is not mad. Relax.
MaryP:

The history of war is the history of how mens' pride and arrogance have brought ruin upon parts of or all of humanity. I fear this is no exception and that Mr. Putin's pride and arrogance will make him dare to do more. I hope I'm wrong, but history bites hard.

Be well and survive.
Evilroddy.
 
MaryP:

The history of war is the history of how mens' pride and arrogance have brought ruin upon parts of or all of humanity. I fear this is no exception and that Mr. Putin's pride and arrogance will make him dare to do more. I hope I'm wrong, but history bites hard.

Be well and survive.
Evilroddy.

Yep, Putin knows that this is his last ‘job’. If he succeeds then he will be remembered as the man who re-expanded Russia, otherwise he may as well die trying as to be killed (or caged until natural death) as a ‘war criminal’ for failing.
 
It should be criminal to say these things because they give false implications that NATO would actually do something and then do nothing when something happens.
 
MaryP:

The history of war is the history of how mens' pride and arrogance have brought ruin upon parts of or all of humanity. I fear this is no exception and that Mr. Putin's pride and arrogance will make him dare to do more. I hope I'm wrong, but history bites hard.

Be well and survive.
Evilroddy.
Guess we'll see, Evilroddy. I did knock wood after making my last post, if that helps any.

The history of the world since nuclear weapons were invented and demonstrated once is that no one is stupid enough to use them. It's true that pride and arrogance have not gone anywhere, but man seems smart enough to keep its hand off the button and just use their existence to make their tail feathers look bigger.

Knock wood again.

You stay safe, too.
 
Yep, Putin knows that this is his last ‘job’. If he succeeds then he will be remembered as the man who re-expanded Russia, otherwise he may as well die trying as to be killed (or caged until natural death) as a ‘war criminal’ for failing.
If he ignites a nuclear or chemical war on his own people by doing something stupid, he won't be considered a winner by any stretch of the imagination. It would make Hitler look fuzzy warm.
 
If he ignites a nuclear or chemical war on his own people by doing something stupid, he won't be considered a winner by any stretch of the imagination. It would make Hitler look fuzzy warm.

You must keep in mind that Putin may well believe that this is his do or die (final) mission. After all, his premise for slaughtering countless civilians in Ukraine (at the cost of many thousands of his own soldiers) is that he is liberating them from Nazis.
 
You must keep in mind that Putin may well believe that this is his do or die (final) mission. After all, his premise for slaughtering countless civilians in Ukraine (at the cost of many thousands of his own soldiers) is that he is liberating them from Nazis.
I don't believe that for a moment. This isn't a thriller novel. He's not killing anyone to get rid of Nazis. He knows it, everyone knows it. He's just stealing a neighbor.
 
You must keep in mind that Putin may well believe that this is his do or die (final) mission. After all, his premise for slaughtering countless civilians in Ukraine (at the cost of many thousands of his own soldiers) is that he is liberating them from Nazis.
His premise for this and the stuff that comes out of my ass...

His brain has turned into moldy jello. That was proven in that big speech he made before he gave the "Go" order. Intel experts, current and former, were all saying that speech made no sense and seemed totally out of character for him.
 
I don't believe that for a moment. This isn't a thriller novel. He's not killing anyone to get rid of Nazis. He knows it, everyone knows it. He's just stealing a neighbor.

His neighbor stealing effort (initially expected to take a couple of weeks at most) has gone badly. While NATO nations can comfortably an patiently sit back, impose sanctions and send in aid money, Putin is really trashing the Russian economy while he sacrifices the lives of many thousands of Russian soldiers (per month) to ‘steal’ a few more square miles of heavily damaged territory.

Putin must surely realize that a new and very different plan is required. I can’t see Putin as the kind of tyrant who would claim that a costly surrender (as Biden did in Afghanistan?) was really a success and try to explain to the Russian people why ‘giving it a go’ was worth the cost. Unlike Biden (with Afghanistan), Putin can’t say that he ended a (mismanaged?) war that some prior leaders had started and bungled.
 
His premise for this and the stuff that comes out of my ass...

His brain has turned into moldy jello. That was proven in that big speech he made before he gave the "Go" order. Intel experts, current and former, were all saying that speech made no sense and seemed totally out of character for him.

Yep, even more reason not to expect Putin to act rationally.
 
His neighbor stealing effort (initially expected to take a couple of weeks at most) has gone badly. While NATO nations can comfortably an patiently sit back, impose sanctions and send in aid money, Putin is really trashing the Russian economy while he sacrifices the lives of many thousands of Russian soldiers (per month) to ‘steal’ a few more square miles of heavily damaged territory.

Putin must surely realize that a new and very different plan is required. I can’t see Putin as the kind of tyrant who would claim that a costly surrender (as Biden did in Afghanistan?) was really a success and try to explain to the Russian people why ‘giving it a go’ was worth the cost. Unlike Biden (with Afghanistan), Putin can’t say that he ended a (mismanaged?) war that some other leader had started and bungled.
I think Putin has taken sufficient control of Russia's information services to tell his people whatever he wants. Wasn't it yesterday the propaganda horn started blaring that Phase 1 was complete and went according to plan, was successful, etc? He's covering his retreat with no problem.

I could be totally wrong, of course, but a lot of times I see people getting overwrought about issues that have been exaggerated by a click happy media. Any analyst that can sensationalize a speculation is welcome.
 
I think Putin has taken sufficient control of Russia's information services to tell his people whatever he wants. Wasn't it yesterday the propaganda horn started blaring that Phase 1 was complete and went according to plan, was successful, etc? He's covering his retreat with no problem.

I could be totally wrong, of course, but a lot of times I see people getting overwrought about issues that have been exaggerated by a click happy media. Any analyst that can sensationalize a speculation is welcome.

I don’t think Putin’s “retreat” is going to get the sanctions lifted, and you can’t hide a trashed economy and dead or ‘disappeared’ soldiers from the people with media spin.
 
NATO official says alliance would be forced to take action if Russia uses chemical, nuclear weapons

iu




"If they will be using chemical weapons or other kinds of higher-end systems against Ukraine, this will be changing fundamentally the nature of the war that Mr. Putin has waged against Ukraine.
I can guarantee that NATO is ready to respond proportionately." - NATO Deputy-General Secretary Mircea Geoana

I all honesty, I have no working idea of what the above implies. Proportionately? How does NATO reply proportionately to Russia's use of a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine? To an attack with its Novichok nerve agent?
This is really just a pretext to involve NATO in the war, western countries have to sell wars to their citizens based on lies and so they’re setting the stage for a false flag chemical attack. Russia has no incentive to use chemical agents in the war which they are winning. Ukraine has every incentive for chemicals weapons use because it might involve other powers to enter on thier behalf. This is NATO telling Ukraine If he’s willing to Northwoods his own people thats what NATO needs to justify entry
 
I don’t think Putin’s “retreat” is going to get the sanctions lifted, and you can’t hide a trashed economy and dead or ‘disappeared’ soldiers from the people with media spin.
But that is all Ukraine and the West's fault, ttwtt. At least that's how they'll spin it.
 
This is really just a pretext to involve NATO in the war, western countries have to sell wars to their citizens based on lies and so they’re setting the stage for a false flag chemical attack. Russia has no incentive to use chemical agents in the war which they are winning. Ukraine has every incentive for chemicals weapons use because it might involve other powers to enter on thier behalf. This is NATO telling Ukraine If he’s willing to Northwoods his own people thats what NATO needs to justify entry
Holy crow, that's Machiavellian!
 
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