NATO Accuses China Of Backing Russia With "Blatant Lies" (1 Viewer)

[Centrist]

"China has provided Russia with political support, including by spreading blatant lies and misinformation, and allies are concerned that China could provide material support for the Russian invasion," Stoltenberg said.

"I expect leaders will call on China to live up to its responsibilities as a member of the UN Security Council, refrain from supporting Russia's war effort, and join the rest of the world in calling for an immediate, peaceful end to this war."

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/nato-accuses-china-of-backing-russia-with-blatant-lies-2839216

https://www.reuters.com/world/nato-warns-china-not-help-russia-ukraine-war-2022-03-23/

The Chinese system has managed to create an apparatus of online surveillance. Some people have no idea what is happening to the Uyghurs Muslim population in their own country due to this strict control.

As the Russians are losing clearly the cyber warfare & PR are they bringing the elite team of internet surveillance and propaganda?

 

[Jkca1]

Who cares what NATO thinks? It's meaningless. 5 bucks and a NATO quote gets you a cup of coffee.

 

[Centrist]

Who cares what NATO thinks?

As someone that is following Eastern European geopolitics for personal reasons and as a hobby, I do, and millions of others.

NATO forces and Russia, 5 different ways an armed conflict might happen:

1. Implementation of a no-fly conflict zone.
2. Russian attacks against U.S./NATO bases supplying weapons to Ukraine.
3. U.S./NATO retaliation for Russian chemical, biological or nuclear strikes on Ukraine.
4. U.S./NATO support for an insurgency in Ukraine.
5. Russia pushes into NATO.

Full article and details for each:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/markcancian/2022/03/21/five-paths-to-war-with-russia/?sh=e2d0092465f0

by Mark Cancian
*Senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a major think tank in Washington DC. Before joining CSIS in April 2015, he worked on budget strategy, war funding, force development, and procurement programs at the Office of Management and Budget and in the Pentagon. In the military, he served over three decades in the U.S. Marine Corps, active and reserve, as an infantry, artillery, and civil affairs officer and on overseas tours in Vietnam, Desert Storm, and Iraq (twice).

 

[Jkca1]

As someone that is following Eastern European geopolitics for personal and as a hobby, I do, and millions of others.

Good for you. Let us not following NATO know when they succeed at something, like getting Russia out of the Ukraine. NATO countries were sure happy enough to purchase energy from Russia, even though their history on human rights and the environment is atrocious.

 

[Mr Person]

Who cares what NATO thinks? It's meaningless. 5 bucks and a NATO quote gets you a cup of coffee.

Putin only goes after certain non-NATO countries he wants to reabsorb into a Russia mimicking the USSR, and he goes "nah, didn't mean anything."

I mean, one can blindly assert that he would be doing exactly the same thing and we'd be in exactly the same position without NATO, but that's about it. But it'd be an ahistorical absurdity. The kind of absurdity that destroys the claim, and which would require a debate board poster to evade it; ie, by demanding "examples of when NATO did or provented something", then dismissing each by making up some other ahistorical *real* reason for what happened.

In fact, it's really an impossibility that the world would look like it does right now without NATO.

Good for you. Let us not following NATO know when they succeed at something, like getting Russia out of the Ukraine. NATO countries were sure happy enough to purchase energy from Russia, even though their history on human rights and the environment is atrocious.

Ukraine is not a member of NATO. Are you seriously attacking NATO without a clue of what it is actually therefore? NATO does not have an operational interest that Ukraine "win".


Do you understand what our national interests are in this conflict? What others are?

Clue: it's not actually that Ukraine 'win' the war. It's that Russia suffer greatly and be further deterred in the future. The same can be said for just about everyone else who got behind us for sanctions.



I get that seeing horrible images of Putin's evils stirs an emotional reaction. You might want to see the Russians crushed and Ukranians victorious. But that's no reason to declare that NATO doesn't matter and only would if NATO declares war and stops Russia.

 

[Centrist]

like getting Russia out of the Ukraine.

You mean to engage with a "country" that their number 1 state channel is promoting this:



I know, they are bluffing. Just go in.

I am sorry, they put men like Stoltenberg at the head of NATO to put pragmatism first, not emotion. There are international implications to just go in and engage militarily. Nuclear war, Civilians, etc.

The number of weapons and help that NATO & EU (financial help) gave Ukraine, how do you think they are still standing?

Here's NATO propaganda:



Chamberlain accusations in 3, 2, 1 ...

 

[Jkca1]

Putin only goes after certain non-NATO countries he wants to reabsorb into a Russia mimicking the USSR, and he goes "nah, didn't mean anything."

I mean, one can blindly assert that he would be doing exactly the same thing and we'd be in exactly the same position without NATO, but that's about it. But it'd be an ahistorical absurdity. The kind of absurdity that destroys the claim, and which would require a debate board poster to evade it; ie, by demanding "examples of when NATO did or provented something", then dismissing each by making up some other ahistorical *real* reason for what happened.



Ukraine is not a member of NATO. Are you seriously attacking NATO without a clue of what it is actually therefore? NATO does not have an operational interest that Ukraine "win".


Do you understand what our national interests are in this conflict? What others are?

Clue: it's not actually that Ukraine 'win' the war. It's that Russia suffer greatly and be further deterred in the future. The same can be said for just about everyone else who got behind us for sanctions.



I get that seeing horrible images of Putin's evils stirs an emotional reaction. You might want to see the Russians crushed and Ukranians victorious. But that's no reason to declare that NATO doesn't matter and only would if NATO declares war and stops Russia.

Talk is cheap until it's not. Had there been no discussion of the Ukraine joining NATO would we be in this situation today? And all we are talking about is a "discussion" among NATO allies. That's all it took to push Putin off the ledge.

You unfortunately don't understand who you are dealing with. The only thing that matters now to Putin is victory. Nobody at the top of the Russian Govt. cares about the Russian people. They have no rights. In your pollyanna world view Russian leaders will come to their senses and apologize for the horrible mistake they make with the Ukraine. Not going to happen. In fact I expect things to get worse in Russia for the civilians and I doubt that Putin will ever feel their pain.

 

[D_NATURED]

Who cares what NATO thinks? It's meaningless. 5 bucks and a NATO quote gets you a cup of coffee.

Spoken like a member of team Traitor Trump. I understand why you guys despise NATO. It was born of a disdain for fascism and Traitor Trump oozes fascism.

Trump has an, apparently, communicable form of idiocy that likewise effects his followers. Defending our enemies is a part of that pathological hatred of America and the free world. Well, here's a news flash, China and Russia are enemies of freedom and your tacit defense of China is a sad commentary on the Trumpist slide past mere stupidity to full blown anti-americanism.

Enemies, foreign and domestic, is what's in the constitution, and what your fat God cynically agreed to defend the constitution from. Which type are you?

 

[georgephillip]

"China has provided Russia with political support, including by spreading blatant lies and misinformation, and allies are concerned that China could provide material support for the Russian invasion," Stoltenberg said.

"I expect leaders will call on China to live up to its responsibilities as a member of the UN Security Council, refrain from supporting Russia's war effort, and join the rest of the world in calling for an immediate, peaceful end to this war."

Why is China prohibited from behaving in the same way as the US in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...nnounced an,start of the Biden Administration.

"President Biden today announced an additional $800 million in security assistance to Ukraine, bringing the total U.S. security assistance committed to Ukraine to $1 billion in just the past week, and a total of $2 billion since the start of the Biden Administration.

"The assistance will take the form of direct transfers of equipment from the Department of Defense to the Ukrainian military to help them defend their country against Russia’s unprovoked and unjustified invasion.

"The new $800 million assistance package includes:

• 800 Stinger anti-aircraft systems;
• 2,000 Javelin, 1,000 light anti-armor weapons, and 6,000 AT-4 anti-armor systems..."

 

[Centrist]

Some people have no idea what is happening to the Uyghurs Muslim population in their own country due to this strict control.

As the Russians are losing clearly the cyber warfare & PR are they bringing the elite team of internet surveillance and propaganda?

This is a documentary about what is happening to the Uyghurs Muslim population in China from France24, it also talks about the surveillance system in place.

Why is China prohibited from behaving in the same way as the US in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine:

I am BIAS for one. I don't want to live in a red system. My ancestors have been through it already, I have paid myself the consequences of it in various ways.

The US is not perfect but at least they allow you to mind your own business and with hard work at least you can succeed. They don't spit on the intellectual class and private business owners as much as a FSB or CCP system would.

Is hard to understand if you have lived all your life in the US. You don't have a relative point to compare it with. For some of us that have seen the alternatives, I think is better.

From a geo-political standpoint? The US and NATO are supplying to a country that is defending itself.

Of course China can do whatever they want to do, but if you want to support Russia (the aggressor) then the world community will penalize you.

 

[georgephillip]

s hard to understand if you have lived all your life in the US. You don't have a relative point to compare it with. For some of us that have seen the alternatives, I think is better.

From a geo-political standpoint? The US and NATO are supplying to a country that is defending itself.

Of course China can do whatever they want to do, but if you want to support Russia (the aggressor) then the world community will penalize you.

I agree that Putin has launched a war of aggression against Ukraine, but I don't believe it was entirely unprovoked. The US CIA first began using Ukrainian nationals to destabilize Russia in 1949. Forty years later the USSR dissolved, and western capitalists looted trillions of dollars from Russia.

Since then NATO has expanded to Russian borders, and, in 2014, a US supported coup removed a corrupt yet democratically elected Ukrainian president from office. Three corrupt western puppets have followed by serving IMF/NATO policies at the expense of a majority of Ukrainians.

Biden lived up to his reputation for saying the private part out loud when he recently called for regime change in Russia; that is exactly what the US has been doing since 1949: fighting Russia to the last drop of Ukrainian blood.

 

[Centrist]

I agree that Putin has launched a war of aggression against Ukraine, but I don't believe it was entirely unprovoked. The US CIA first began using Ukrainian nationals to destabilize Russia in 1949. Forty years later the USSR dissolved, and western capitalists looted trillions of dollars from Russia.

Since then NATO has expanded to Russian borders, and, in 2014, a US supported coup removed a corrupt yet democratically elected Ukrainian president from office. Three corrupt western puppets have followed by serving IMF/NATO policies at the expense of a majority of Ukrainians.

Biden lived up to his reputation for saying the private part out loud when he recently called for regime change in Russia; that is exactly what the US has been doing since 1949: fighting Russia to the last drop of Ukrainian blood.

Sir Winston Churchill reminded the UK’s House of Commons that “democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried.” In a similar fashion, capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others.

Is hard not to destabilize a USSR-type system when the time to get up for milk and bread was at 5 AM. Some days, you wait in line for 3 hours until 8 AM -> when the store opens -> you find out there is no more bread.

So what do you do? You starve, or you eat sugar plain. The leaders used to tell us to suffer, this way the Socialist Republic of Romania does not owe any money to the "western capitalists".

I won't speak for Ukraine, the situation there is a little bit more complicated (major parts of Eastern Ukraine are pro-Russia), but in the country of origin where I am from, a former Soviet-influenced country, when the American NATO led-convoy arrived in the country, you had old people crying in the streets. Why? They knew it can't be worse than what the Soviets did.

and they were right. Americans cleaned up the justice system. They didn't really clean it up, it was just allowed -> finally people to do their job. Nobody was afraid anymore of the KGB/FSB. They also created an environment for talented people to start businesses, built schools for the poor. Of course, they take their cut but the majority of people are fine with it. Nothing is free in life.

this is one small convoy that they do almost yearly -> which travels from the countryside to the big cities:

 

[Centrist]

Just in:

 

[georgephillip]

Sir Winston Churchill reminded the UK’s House of Commons that “democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried.” In a similar fashion, capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others.

Is hard not to destabilize a USSR-type system when the time to get up for milk and bread was at 5 AM. Some days, you wait in line for 3 hours until 8 AM -> when the store opens -> you find out there is no more bread.

So what do you do? You starve, or you eat sugar plain. The leaders used to tell us to suffer, this way the Socialist Republic of Romania does not owe any money to the "western capitalists".

I won't speak for Ukraine, the situation there is a little bit more complicated (major parts of Eastern Ukraine are pro-Russia), but in the country of origin where I am from, a former Soviet-influenced country, when the American NATO led-convoy arrived in the country, you had old people crying in the streets. Why? They knew it can't be worse than what the Soviets did.

and they were right. Americans cleaned up the justice system. They didn't really clean it up, it was just allowed -> finally people to do their job. Nobody was afraid anymore of the KGB/FSB. They also created an environment for talented people to start businesses, built schools for the poor. Of course, they take their cut but the majority of people are fine with it. Nothing is free in life.

this is one small convoy that they do almost yearly -> which travels from the countryside to the big cities:

https://www.army.mil/article/148574/2d_cav_regt_continues_cavalry_march_through_romania

"MIHAIL KOGALNICEANU AIR BASE, Romania (May 14, 2015) -- Soldiers, of the 2nd Cavalry Regiment's 2nd Squadron, began Operation Cavalry March, a 400-kilometer movement across Romania that involved nearly 100 combat vehicles and more than 300 Soldiers, May 12.

"Cavalry March is a demonstration of NATO's ability to move freely within the alliance, and is a part of Operation Atlantic Resolve."

I would agree with you assessment of democracy but not regarding capitalism.
Capitalism divides society into two vastly unequal cohorts: those who own the means of production ( 2%-3% of the population) and workers responsible for producing all value. Capitalism concentrates wealth into fewer and fewer hands with each passing generation; thereby increasing economic inequality. American capitalism has never existed without war and debt, and it appears it may be coming to an end; although its successor will have many unique negatives of its own.

https://www.scmp.com/comment/insigh...-rise-assured-our-new-world-order-not-hegemon