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National ID?

It's also wouldn't be much if at all more difficult to forge a federal ID.
But, it's much harder to forge federal records that you're supposed to compare the ID to.

This just adds another layer of bureaucracy and cost to a system that already is fine.
You call identity theft "fine?"

Federal IDs would still be stolen, forged, and not much if at all easier to recover than other forms that already exist.
Unless they have a federal archive to compare information to.
 
The concept of a national ID, similar to the driver's license at the state level, just at the federal level, has been met with lots of opposition from those who think that a national ID system is the hallmark of a totalitarian system.

However, the Passport Card - which allows you to travel to and from Canada and Mexico without tourist visas, and is $40 cheaper than a full-fledged passport - has been a lot better received, largely because it is voluntary. Don't want the Passport Card? Fine, just don't expect to go to Canada or Mexico without a tourist visa. Simple as that.

Ok, so, voluntary national IDs are a lot better received, eh? Well, let's take that approach.

You will need a national ID before you can participate in any optional government programs. Any at all.

You want to sue someone in federal court? Show your national ID along with your complaint.

Subject to federal criminal charges, and want a public defender? Flash your national ID.

Want welfare money? Show your national ID with the application.

You can file your taxes without a national ID, but, if you want to claim ANY deductions, even yourself as a dependent, you'll need a national ID.

Want to apply for any federal job? We're talking, just APPLYING for the job, even if you don't get a formal job offer. Guess what you'll need?

Thoughts?

Its a scam to allow the federal government more control. In Oklahoma we do not have to worry about illegals getting tax payer funded services such as welfare,foodstamps, drivers licenses and IDs and other government funded services because of HB1804 that was signed into law. As for federal jobs, they are going to check you legal status out anyways. I seriously doubt illegals file tax returns hoping they get refunds or have to pay less taxes, besides that I seriously doubt most of them even they pay federal taxes. This is not going to stop dishonest businesses from hiring illegals.
 
And that's not too hard already.
How do you figure?

No, I say that this isn't an improvement.
You don't think that a system that makes it easier to catch identity thieves is an improvement?

Checking other archives isn't the most difficult thing in the world.
But, no system is as universally used as one created and maintained by the federal government would be.
 
How do you figure?


You don't think that a system that makes it easier to catch identity thieves is an improvement?


But, no system is as universally used as one created and maintained by the federal government would be.

With the Internet, it should be made far easier to check IDs from other states if this hasn't been done already. It really isn't that hard or shouldn't be that hard to make this improvement without making everyone go to their local courthouse and paying a fee.
 
With the Internet, it should be made far easier to check IDs from other states if this hasn't been done already. It really isn't that hard or shouldn't be that hard to make this improvement without making everyone go to their local courthouse and paying a fee.
That requires that states actually have these databases to begin with.

Many states don't, which makes out-of-state tourists all but anonymous.

In today's wired world, such a system needs to be universal.
 
And a universal database of state driver's licenses is far cheaper than just creating a Federal ID.
 
Why not lower the price for Passports. A Passport is federal and is a form of valid ID. Lower the price and more people will have one.

What scares mr about the National ID is I believe it may be the predecessor to the National RFID Chip and that's disturbing. That's what I meant by loss of privacy.

If it ain't broken don't fix it. The state IDs are fine.
 
Why not lower the price for Passports. A Passport is federal and is a form of valid ID. Lower the price and more people will have one.
Because most people are not familiar with the reliability of a passport.

What scares mr about the National ID is I believe it may be the predecessor to the National RFID Chip and that's disturbing.
There's a lot of may be's in this world. You need to show that this is actually reasonably likely to happen.

See, that's called "speculative damages." You can't claim them unless you can show that they are reasonably likely to occur.

If it ain't broken don't fix it. The state IDs are fine.
They are not fine. They are, indeed, broken.

State IDs have not been able to crack down on identity theft. That, in and of itself, is a flaw in the system.
 
Identity theft is the fault of the Federal gov because of the SS number.
 
Identity theft is the fault of the Federal gov because of the SS number.

Which is why the federal government needs to step in.

They caused this problem; they need to get us out of it.
 
We already have passports, so no; we do not need any form of national ID. Nor should we ever adopt one. Nor should we ever create one through data basing and data mining (even though this we almost certainly do). State driver's license and SS card are enough. No more.
 
We already have passports, so no; we do not need any form of national ID. Nor should we ever adopt one. Nor should we ever create one through data basing and data mining (even though this we almost certainly do). State driver's license and SS card are enough. No more.

Again, they are, apparently, not enough to prevent this wave of identity theft.
 
Again, they are, apparently, not enough to prevent this wave of identity theft.

Well there are ways to prevent it. Is somehow more government tracking and documents going to make it harder for identity theft? No, their identity theives, they'll find a way. I'm not going to accept that scare tactic as excuse for bigger and more intrusive government.
 
Show me proof of that.

Because you have to issue it to over 200,000,000 of them. People have to go to their courthouse, get their picture taken, probably pay a fee. The thing would be a mess.
 
Well there are ways to prevent it. Is somehow more government tracking and documents going to make it harder for identity theft? No, their identity theives, they'll find a way. I'm not going to accept that scare tactic as excuse for bigger and more intrusive government.

More more more more!

I keep on hearing the word "more."

What part of "It replaces existing ID forms" don't you understand?
 
The concept of a national ID, similar to the driver's license at the state level, just at the federal level, has been met with lots of opposition from those who think that a national ID system is the hallmark of a totalitarian system.

However, the Passport Card - which allows you to travel to and from Canada and Mexico without tourist visas, and is $40 cheaper than a full-fledged passport - has been a lot better received, largely because it is voluntary. Don't want the Passport Card? Fine, just don't expect to go to Canada or Mexico without a tourist visa. Simple as that.

Ok, so, voluntary national IDs are a lot better received, eh? Well, let's take that approach.

You will need a national ID before you can participate in any optional government programs. Any at all.

You want to sue someone in federal court? Show your national ID along with your complaint.

Subject to federal criminal charges, and want a public defender? Flash your national ID.

Want welfare money? Show your national ID with the application.

You can file your taxes without a national ID, but, if you want to claim ANY deductions, even yourself as a dependent, you'll need a national ID.

Want to apply for any federal job? We're talking, just APPLYING for the job, even if you don't get a formal job offer. Guess what you'll need?

Thoughts?

What is the SSN if not a national ID???
 
I've already answered that question.

I will not say it a tenth time.

If you had to say it 10 times, you're either not saying it right or you're wrong to begin with.... I've consolidated some of your reasons which aren't reasons at all. You're view is to put everything into one basket under the excuse of "consolidation" and "streamlining" to reduce the "bureacracy". These don't answer the question, which I asked, which is why do we need this? You may WANT it, but we do not NEED it.

What monetary advantages will there be to the government? What proceedural? This would be seen and is already seen as yet further infringement on citizens by federalizing something that doesn't need federalizing. Now that all our eggs are in one basket, any hacking of our ID's and we're not partially screwed, we're totally screwed. The government wants to make someone disappear - now they can do it with one stroke instead of 5 --- as you pointed out. Whew! Who new making people disappear could be so easy in the future eh?

Let me explain what a multiple people already told you --- we don't like it. We don't want it. We don't need it. Capice?
 
What is the SSN if not a national ID???

I think Johnny already answered that - the SSN was and is an example of the misuse of a unique identifier for everything and is a National ID. It wasn't supposed to be, but we let government use it and look where it got us.... now middle wants us to do it all again and let government **** things up again, and asks "Why are people so paranoid?"

Gee... beats me.
 
If you had to say it 10 times, you're either not saying it right or you're wrong to begin with....
Or, people are just stupid and don't want to take the time to read it.

I've consolidated some of your reasons which aren't reasons at all. You're view is to put everything into one basket under the excuse of "consolidation" and "streamlining" to reduce the "bureacracy". These don't answer the question, which I asked, which is why do we need this? You may WANT it, but we do not NEED it.
Do you deny that streamlining a system will make it cheaper?

And, furthermore, do you deny that anything that is cheaper is better for the government because it is, in turn, better for the taxpayers?

What monetary advantages will there be to the government?
Do you really even need to ask that?

What monetary advantages do you THINK can come out of streamlining a system? ANY system?

What proceedural?
Well, for starters, there would be no confusion as to "Do I need this ID, or that one?" You need your federal ID, and that's all there is to it.

This would make red tape easier, and that's only one example.

Now that all our eggs are in one basket, any hacking of our ID's and we're not partially screwed, we're totally screwed.
Unless there are sufficient elements in place to catch hackers before they use that information to do any real damage.

The government wants to make someone disappear - now they can do it with one stroke instead of 5 --- as you pointed out. Whew! Who new making people disappear could be so easy in the future eh?
If the government wants to make you disappear, they are not going to be stopped by four extra keystrokes. That's a pretty moot argument, there.

Let me explain what a multiple people already told you --- we don't like it. We don't want it. We don't need it. Capice?
And, let me explain this for the 1239472957947591704th time:

You are paranoid. You don't know what's best for you.
 
Or, people are just stupid and don't want to take the time to read it.
You are paranoid. You don't know what's best for you.

Right...its everyone else. Not you. I dont know...there is that old adage...when everyone thinks YOU are a dumbass...and YOU think everyone ELSE is a dumbass...well..SOMEBODY is probably pretty close to being right...

That bolded line qualifies you to be a politician..so...you have THAT going for you...
 
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