National energy policy

Topsez said:

This idea came to me because when I was a child growing up on a farm in WV we had a fresh water spring about a half mile up the valley that ran cold clear water year round even in the worst drought. The water collected in a 200 gallon concrete tank and a 3/4 inch pipe ran directly to our house and in the winter we would leave the faucets wide open so the water wouldn't freeze... it had great pressure. I thought what if a great clean unpoluted source was in northern Canada and a chain of high pressure pipes ran between cities there would never be a worry about polution or drought and energy could be collected at each city water reservoir that would help power the city.

The link I provided at otherpower.com has a lot of information on permanent magnets applications and loads of information on wind produced electricity... the site also has a forum for people living off grid that rely on home produced green power, check out their homepage. Lots of people complain about windmills and I've even read where one community was suing residents to have solar PV electric panels removed because they thougth they looked bad on the roofs. Some people are smakable while soldiers go to the ME to keep their oil flowing.

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I bookmarked the site earlier. I've always been a big fan of photovoltaic batteries. With just one more panel and another couple of batteries, the guy with the cabin would have a fairly conventional setup in his house. The lighting could be upgraded a little and he could install a water pump with a fair amount of power, maybe in combination with a bladder tank.

He gives a very important tip on the toilet seat, about bringing it in on those cold nights. I'm sure where he lives its beautiful, but the cold is my enemy. I couldn't do what he and his friends do. I do live in the country, but in hot Central Florida.

By the way, did you read about butanol on my earlier post? I'm trying to keep up with any news on it, but there isn't much.

tryreading said:

I bookmarked the site earlier. I've always been a big fan of photovoltaic batteries. With just one more panel and another couple of batteries, the guy with the cabin would have a fairly conventional setup in his house. The lighting could be upgraded a little and he could install a water pump with a fair amount of power, maybe in combination with a bladder tank.

He gives a very important tip on the toilet seat, about bringing it in on those cold nights. I'm sure where he lives its beautiful, but the cold is my enemy. I couldn't do what he and his friends do. I do live in the country, but in hot Central Florida.

By the way, did you read about butanol on my earlier post? I'm trying to keep up with any news on it, but there isn't much.

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No I missed it but I went back and then googled it and got this link http://www.butanol.com/ and I'll read up on it tomorrow. Ethenol is nothing more than mountain dew or moonshine whiskey... the adjustments to run it strait are mainly the air to fuel mixture... For diesels cooking oil can be mixed if it is cheaper without any adjustments. I'm a member of a AE international group at wastewatts.com managed by yahoo and there you can ask questions to people around the world about AE. The problem with ethenol is it takes a lot of energy to make whiskey but there is this guy by the name Mike Brown I found through researching steam engines that has links to build your own still for under $500 if I remember correctly. I was thinking to check it out after I got my steam engine going since I could use the steam to heat the mash to run the still. Google Mike brown and check his site out you'll enjoy it. I ran up another test on my boiler this evening and almost have all the kinks out of it. I have a two burner boiler and could only get one to work properly but was able to get a constant 25PSI so I'm hoping with two burners going I'll be up to the desired 50 to 60 psi on waste motor oil I get for free. Good luck with making a move to AE to get your power verses ME oil.

Topsez said:

No I missed it but I went back and then googled it and got this link http://www.butanol.com/ and I'll read up on it tomorrow. Ethenol is nothing more than mountain dew or moonshine whiskey... the adjustments to run it strait are mainly the air to fuel mixture... For diesels cooking oil can be mixed if it is cheaper without any adjustments. I'm a member of a AE international group at wastewatts.com managed by yahoo and there you can ask questions to people around the world about AE. The problem with ethenol is it takes a lot of energy to make whiskey but there is this guy by the name Mike Brown I found through researching steam engines that has links to build your own still for under $500 if I remember correctly. I was thinking to check it out after I got my steam engine going since I could use the steam to heat the mash to run the still. Google Mike brown and check his site out you'll enjoy it. I ran up another test on my boiler this evening and almost have all the kinks out of it. I have a two burner boiler and could only get one to work properly but was able to get a constant 25PSI so I'm hoping with two burners going I'll be up to the desired 50 to 60 psi on waste motor oil I get for free. Good luck with making a move to AE to get your power verses ME oil.

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Butanol doesn't require any modification at all to use in gas operated car engines. It can be used at any percentage with gasoline, or can be run at 100%. Production of it is not feasible yet though. The process is too slow. But it can be made from any biomass, the source doesn't have to be corn or any specific plant material. When it can be produced in volume, maybe we'll have something.

You are in deep on this subject. I wish more people were. There really is almost no general public knowledge of alternate energy.

Topsez said:

This idea came to me because when I was a child growing up on a farm in WV we had a fresh water spring about a half mile up the valley that ran cold clear water year round even in the worst drought. The water collected in a 200 gallon concrete tank and a 3/4 inch pipe ran directly to our house and in the winter we would leave the faucets wide open so the water wouldn't freeze... it had great pressure. I thought what if a great clean unpoluted source was in northern Canada and a chain of high pressure pipes ran between cities there would never be a worry about polution or drought and energy could be collected at each city water reservoir that would help power the city.

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Interesting information about people using water flow from a stream for power for their houses. One of the systems is a small turbine connected to a car alternator, providing 400 watts of AC.

Living Off The Grid Part III: A New Era in Home-Owner Hydro

This is another example of our apathy regarding energy policy. We let them get away with this:


Despite energy's strategic nature, the U.S. has done little to wean itself off oil. At the current rate, it will take decades to reduce energy reliance on the Gulf, let alone achieve independence. The U.S. still falls short of having an effective means of conservation, and not much money is going into the development of alternative energy. The Energy Dept. has a research and development budget of $14 billion a year, of which only $75 million goes to develop solar energy.

Even Garman admits more could be done. "We have a strong program, but it could be stronger," says the Under Secretary, who bought the first Toyota Prius available in the U.S. in 2001. Indeed, the $14.5 billion energy bill that President Bush signed into law last month had relatively few provisions for alternative energy.

Fresh Heat for Energy Policy



Heard about BioWillie on 20/20 tonight. Its Willie Nelson's site promoting biodiesel. At least he's trying. He runs his buses on it:

Willie Nelson and Bio-Diesel Fuel

Check out this magazine that is really making some differences in alternative energy. The link to files and downloads has tons of great information... One link has some great ideas of water produced electricity. Home Power Magazine - Your Small Scale Renewable Energy (RE) Source

I was watching CSPAN this morning and took note that Al Hubbard, chairman of the National Economic Council and co-coordinator for the White House Energy Policy is promoting a State of the Union preview of expectations that Prez Bush will focus on energy dependence and has a plan that will “knock your socks off”… did some searching and found the following I thought I’d share.

Some international thinktanks believe, the world war of energy may have already started. United States just extended its warm welcome signs to India with the US-India civilian nuclear energy pact.

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IndiaDaily - Crude Oil and Natural Gas reserves divided between two superpower blocks - third world war over underwater reserves?

Al Hubbard, chairman of the National Economic Council, who is co-ordinating White House energy policy, has also raised expectations. In a speech at De Pauw University he predicted “headlines above the fold that will knock your socks off in terms of our commitment to energy independence”.

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FT.com / World / US & Canada - Bush tipped to talk tough on energy but snub Kyoto

These links contain some eye opening information of ongoing actions around the world.

Topsez said:

I was watching CSPAN this morning and took note that Al Hubbard, chairman of the National Economic Council and co-coordinator for the White House Energy Policy is promoting a State of the Union preview of expectations that Prez Bush will focus on energy dependence and has a plan that will “knock your socks off”… did some searching and found the following I thought I’d share.


IndiaDaily - Crude Oil and Natural Gas reserves divided between two superpower blocks - third world war over underwater reserves?


FT.com / World / US & Canada - Bush tipped to talk tough on energy but snub Kyoto

These links contain some eye opening information of ongoing actions around the world.

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We will see. So far its been lip service. It seems to me that energy independence should be one of the two or three most important considerations when thinking in terms of national security. While we still depend so much on oil from the M.E., our security and the health of our economy are not completely under our control.

Well these are my votes
1.More funds for R&D
2.Increase Nuclear Energy
3.Explore/Drill for more
4.Higher fuel effieceny for cars

OK, explanations.
1. Obviously need to get off of oil, since oil is not a renewable source that we can harvest/grow. Oil will run out one day. If we aren't off of it, then we are f'ed.
2. Nuclear energy is very efficent. Need to find a way to rocket the waste to a useless sector of space.
3. Explore/drill for more. I know, I know all the enviro fundies get their panties in a wad when you suggest this, but if we are going to get independent of other nations right now, then we need our own source of oil to use, until the alternative sources come online. Someone said that if we drill for more, it will cut back our funding for alternatives 30 years. I look at it the other way. If we don't drill, then we will be dependent on other countries for 30 years until the alternatives can take over. There needs to be a marriage between the two to ease the transition.
4. Hey, who doesn't want to get 50 miles a gallon in their vehicle??

tryreading said:

We will see. So far its been lip service. It seems to me that energy independence should be one of the two or three most important considerations when thinking in terms of national security. While we still depend so much on oil from the M.E., our security and the health of our economy are not completely under our control.

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It's always been lip service from this president. "Passionate conservative" bs.
"We're addicted to oil" - tell me something we don't know W. What've you done about it in the last year - oh right keep fighting in Iraq.

The energy policy is never going to change under this administration without force, because it's an incompetent pass the buck finger pointing administration that hasn't the balls to really do anything except increase spending to expand government further. So much for "shrinking gov."

jfuh said:

It's always been lip service from this president. "Passionate conservative" bs.
"We're addicted to oil" - tell me something we don't know W. What've you done about it in the last year - oh right keep fighting in Iraq.

The energy policy is never going to change under this administration without force, because it's an incompetent pass the buck finger pointing administration that hasn't the balls to really do anything except increase spending to expand government further. So much for "shrinking gov."

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From a far left wing site:

One of the most pressing issues facing us all, including the new Democratic-controlled Congress, is what to do about energy policy and climate change. With sweeping changes in the leadership of key congressional committees and heightened public concerns about the consequences of disruptive climate shifts, the time appears ripe for significant changes in U.S. policy. Environmental lobbyists in Washington, however, are bracing themselves for only minimal steps. California Senator Barbara Boxer, the new chair of the Environment and Public Works Committee, is planning comprehensive hearings on climate and energy policy—a departure from the approach of her predecessor, the notorious right-wing climate-denier James Inhofe of Oklahoma, who called global warming “the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind,” and included popular fiction writer Michael Crichton among his “expert” witnesses. But with many congressional Democrats beholden to automobile, agribusiness, and other corporate interests, Capitol Hill is ready for only incremental changes.

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The New Energy Debates

If you really want to get depressed about the possibilities of compromise between the left and the right on this issue read the whole link.

Topsez said:

From a far left wing site:

The New Energy Debates

If you really want to get depressed about the possibilities of compromise between the left and the right on this issue read the whole link.

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Hence lip service.

jfuh said:

Hence lip service.

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Lot of lip service going around... I'm watching the US House of Representatives as the left forces through the 07 Energy bill without possibilities of amendments to fulfill their promise to the American people... What a waste of time since it has no possibility of being signed into law as written. Almost everything that has occurred in the famous 6 for 06 is a waste of time... everything will be killed or changed in the Senate or vetoed by the Prez. It's all about politics

The House bill HR 6 is a joke and a bad joke at that... take the tax breaks form the Big Oil and give that money to a pond for Alternative Energy to do R and D... Big Oil will pass anything they lose back to the pump and probably slow down exploration. It won’t happen because the Senate won’t let it happen nor will the Prez let it happen. If someone wants to fund AE they should tax imported oil and put that into a pond for R and D for AE.

I would even say it would be better to tax imported oil and give the tax as credit to all persons who buy or use AE proportionately.

Topsez said:

Lot of lip service going around... I'm watching the US House of Representatives as the left forces through the 07 Energy bill without possibilities of amendments to fulfill their promise to the American people... What a waste of time since it has no possibility of being signed into law as written. Almost everything that has occurred in the famous 6 for 06 is a waste of time... everything will be killed or changed in the Senate or vetoed by the Prez. It's all about politics

The House bill HR 6 is a joke and a bad joke at that... take the tax breaks form the Big Oil and give that money to a pond for Alternative Energy to do R and D... Big Oil will pass anything they lose back to the pump and probably slow down exploration. It won’t happen because the Senate won’t let it happen nor will the Prez let it happen. If someone wants to fund AE they should tax imported oil and put that into a pond for R and D for AE.

I would even say it would be better to tax imported oil and give the tax as credit to all persons who buy or use AE proportionately.

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Very good ideas - seriously.
Sadly not from this oil controlled congress where Exxon and Co are the actual government.
Nothing is going to change unless the public demands it, and the public will not demand it unless they understand what's going on in all aspects. All the oil companies need do is just toss out more mis-information from their increased profits and the public will be all the dumber. sad.

A 40% efficient photovoltaic battery has been produced and the DOE has verified that it works. This happened a couple of months ago, but I just read about it.

This is really a big advance. Its a jump from the previous level, which was a little over thirty percent, and just a few years ago when it was 22%. For many people, this will make an installation affordable.

Time for abuse...

Energy. It's ALL about the behavior of electrons in vallence shells.

And electronegativity.

Anyone with me?

Haven't seen Scarecrow for a while.

He's the only guy I've seen here that can hang with me on this. Billo got some game on this though.

Now, who wants an edumacation?

Nah, you need like NO more reasons for me to prove how much smarter than you I am.

My advice? Take a pass.

I ran this sh**t by this site many times.

Derrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Come on, some one step up to the plate.

Mover and stacker of blocks is pitching.

tryreading said:

A 40% efficient photovoltaic battery has been produced and the DOE has verified that it works. This happened a couple of months ago, but I just read about it.

This is really a big advance. Its a jump from the previous level, which was a little over thirty percent, and just a few years ago when it was 22%. For many people, this will make an installation affordable.

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I heard about that long ago, and that is huge. Oil Co. mad huge.

My bad, Topsez got way game on this too.

2 x 6vdc batteries in series. What's the multimeter read?

2 x 1 ohm resisters in parrallel. What's the multimeter read?

Billo, a rock and a tumor enter a pie eating contest. Who wins?

Wanna never buy a new cell phone charger again in your life? Of cource you don't, until you realize that it's me teaching you how not to, then you run and buy two cause you can't stand that I know all this sh**t.

How about some stupid cartoons?

teacher said:

2 x 6vdc batteries in series. What's the multimeter read?

2 x 1 ohm resisters in parrallel. What's the multimeter read?

Billo, a rock and a tumor enter a pie eating contest. Who wins?

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12 volts

.5 ohms

The tumor. A tumor lives to eat and grow. Also, when he eats a pie, he says 'two more!'

Ding ding ding...

tryreading said:

12 volts

.5 ohms

The tumor. A tumor lives to eat and grow. Also, when he eats a pie, he says 'two more!'

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We have a winner.



Good, then, one who knows, bout time someone to talk to.

I say solar roof tiles that make Hydrogen gas we fill our cars up in the driveway. Stupid Arabs can suck eggs.

This makes sence to you, right?

Re: Ding ding ding...

teacher said:

We have a winner.

Good, then, one who knows, bout time someone to talk to.

I say solar roof tiles that make Hydrogen gas we fill our cars up in the driveway. Stupid Arabs can suck eggs.

This makes sence to you, right?

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Here's the plan... http://www.homepower.com/files/Hp22p26.pdf

I think America could better utilize the assets within their control... Things under the government's control are pretty much limited to prisons... Close the fitness centers and put these inmates behind a desk to learn how to build this stuff and then put them behind a wrench to build it. Then, in stead of putting everyone in jail put them, the non violent types of criminals on low income community service to install this stuff on government buildings with a threat of lock up for poor performance. Let the state funded universities engineer the crap and teach the lifers how to get busy on step one and reward the university for best plan or concept with fed funds. Then fleets of government vehicles using the stuff.

Here's how this works...

Topsez said:

Here's the plan... http://www.homepower.com/files/Hp22p26.pdf

I think America could better utilize the assets within their control... Things under the government's control are pretty much limited to prisons... Close the fitness centers and put these inmates behind a desk to learn how to build this stuff and then put them behind a wrench to build it. Then, in stead of putting everyone in jail put them, the non violent types of criminals on low income community service to install this stuff on government buildings with a threat of lock up for poor performance. Let the state funded universities engineer the crap and teach the lifers how to get busy on step one and reward the university for best plan or concept with fed funds. Then fleets of government vehicles using the stuff.

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and you should pay attention. Some points first...

1. As I, The Warden, the guy you aren't, can't and never will be, am omnicient, I noticed quick like when Top here joined. Gave him a nice hello. He was one of the first to received the much coveted teacher's "You Don't Suck" award. Like I often say, I'm not gonna look at your links. Well, as I was immeadiatly impressed with Top here, HIS links I'll look at.

Duece. I was screaming the virtues of Hydrogen gas produced by solar long ago. Replies?...

(Sound of Monkey's snoring).

But that was before Top graced out presence. National energy policy? Yea, both left and right let us get skull fu*ked by big oil, while in the same breath screaming that each other sucks. Do they ever do a damn thing? Nah. Sure, I was all over the H gas thing, but with you morons it's like beating my head against a wall. Makes my head hurt and pizzes the wall off. So I idlely mention my gas deal, and lo and behold, Top is there with me and links. This is how smart people work.

The answer is before us. Do your bedwetting or Nazi leaders ever tout this? No. Why? Beholden to campaign contributions and bribes.

So, morons, while you you two sides carry on with your...

"Bush lied".
"Nuh-uh".
"Did to".

mindset. Don't wonder why I heap worthy abuse upon your stupid azzes while your run in circles looking for a corner to get stuck in. I truley understand why you all ignore such things as I say and Top linked to, cause you suck and it's far easier to point fingers rather than think.

Nice job Top. Way to think outside the box and use what's allready there. But don't hold your breath waiting for a reply to the link other than me.

Nuff said.

Out.

Re: Ding ding ding...

Topsez said:

Here's the plan... http://www.homepower.com/files/Hp22p26.pdf

I think America could better utilize the assets within their control... Things under the government's control are pretty much limited to prisons... Close the fitness centers and put these inmates behind a desk to learn how to build this stuff and then put them behind a wrench to build it. Then, in stead of putting everyone in jail put them, the non violent types of criminals on low income community service to install this stuff on government buildings with a threat of lock up for poor performance. Let the state funded universities engineer the crap and teach the lifers how to get busy on step one and reward the university for best plan or concept with fed funds. Then fleets of government vehicles using the stuff.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link Top.

Re: Ding ding ding...

teacher said:

We have a winner.

Good, then, one who knows, bout time someone to talk to.

I say solar roof tiles that make Hydrogen gas we fill our cars up in the driveway. Stupid Arabs can suck eggs.

This makes sence to you, right?

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Thank you for the award, I think.

Yes, the solar roof tiles are made now, but at the current rate of efficiency they are not affordable for most people. Maybe breaking the 40% barrier will encourage more installations. Some states have incentives and rebates for consumers and businesses that install photovoltaic or thermal systems, and there should be more of that going on. There should also be federal incentives if there aren't any now, and I don't know of any.

How would you produce hydrogen with the pvs? The only way I know of is to place the DC output leads into water, and over time 2 H's and 1 O will bubble up into whatever storage containers are used. Don't know how practical that would be.

The President talked about plug-in cars. That will be doable shortly, in volume. I think powering the house and car with pv's will be a beautiful thing, especially in the sun belt. A problem with the President though - he talked about our addiction to oil last year, plug in cars this year, but he is not putting enough money into R&D incentives for alternatives. To be fair, though, research for the new 40% pvs was funded by the federal government, at least in part.

And that makes three...

tryreading said:

Thank you for the award, I think.

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Oh, it's quite the honor.

Yes, the solar roof tiles are made now, but at the current rate of efficiency they are not affordable for most people. Maybe breaking the 40% barrier will encourage more installations. Some states have incentives and rebates for consumers and businesses that install photovoltaic or thermal systems, and there should be more of that going on. There should also be federal incentives if there aren't any now, and I don't know of any.

How would you produce hydrogen with the pvs? The only way I know of is to place the DC output leads into water, and over time 2 H's and 1 O will bubble up into whatever storage containers are used. Don't know how practical that would be.

The President talked about plug-in cars. That will be doable shortly, in volume. I think powering the house and car with pv's will be a beautiful thing, especially in the sun belt. A problem with the President though - he talked about our addiction to oil last year, plug in cars this year, but he is not putting enough money into R&D incentives for alternatives. To be fair, though, research for the new 40% pvs was funded by the federal government, at least in part.

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Heard a few months ago they were on to some PVC that were 5 times better. Hydrogen fuel cells is a good thing to google, overall the tech is simple. I really see know reason why PVC can't generate H gas and store in tanks, just like propane or natural gas. The tech is there, the parts off the shelf, Iceland has a H gas stations for it's municiple vehicles, our government could give tax breaks and all the usual incentives, it's all quite simple, to the point I have to ask why this isn't being pursued big time. Only answer I can think of is...oil and politicians. Sad really. By product of H gas burning is heat...and water. No friggin pollution, sun makes the juice, even the treehuggers should like this.

Sumpin is going on in this world, smell like greed and conspiracy.

Present your award to The Basement janitor or Cheeta, The Basement VIP lounge matredee and you'll receive a key. Drinks are cheap, craps table rigged (bet pass)and pants optional. Enjoy.

Re: And that makes three...

teacher said:

. Drinks are cheap, craps table rigged (bet pass)and pants optional. Enjoy.

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Whoops - I was already sans pants...