National Crime Agency

Re: National Crime Squad

Why the hell do you need a laser sight on something like an MP5? Especially if you're going to clear a room? At that kind of distance you might as well go with iron sights since they give you more vision to either side as you look down them or you could just look over the top of the sights and align based on the front sight post alone because, again, at that kinda distance you don't need to have a pinpoint accurate sight.

PLUS if you adjust the damn thing while you're outside in the bright sun you'll probably crank it up to max or a notch or two below, then when you go into a darker building your red dot is so bright it blocks your vision of the target.

They gave me a red dot sight in Afghanistan and got angry with me when I took it off, why did I remove it? Because for the last three years at the range I've only ever shot with iron sights, any exercises I've done have always been iron sights, then they give me thing have me zero and not even qualify with it and can't understand why I prefer the old reliable sights.

Chatter · Oct 7, 2013

Re: National Crime Squad

Wiseone said:
Why the hell do you need a laser sight on something like an MP5? Especially if you're going to clear a room? At that kind of distance you might as well go with iron sights since they give you more vision to either side as you look down them or you could just look over the top of the sights and align based on the front sight post alone because, again, at that kinda distance you don't need to have a pinpoint accurate sight.

PLUS if you adjust the damn thing while you're outside in the bright sun you'll probably crank it up to max or a notch or two below, then when you go into a darker building your red dot is so bright it blocks your vision of the target.

They gave me a red dot sight in Afghanistan and got angry with me when I took it off, why did I remove it? Because for the last three years at the range I've only ever shot with iron sights, any exercises I've done have always been iron sights, then they give me thing have me zero and not even qualify with it and can't understand why I prefer the old reliable sights.

I am not sure why they have laser sights, as for the MP5 it's really at the lower end of police gun spectrum these days, indeed post Mumbai the UK's Specialist Firearms Officers (SFO's) tend to use the HK G36 and other more powerful weapons with hollow point ammunition. It also should be noted that in the UK there are also different levels of firearms officers, the basic officer being an Authorised Firearms Officer's (AFO) who usually operate Armed Response Vehicle, then you have more advanced officers in Tactical Support Teams and then finally you have the Specialist Firearms Officers who train alongside military special forces such as the Special Air Service (SAS) and can be deployed via helicopter and high speed rib and who also usually have a fleet of specialist armoured vehicles such as London's Jankel Armoured Vehicles. Other Units such as the Territorial Support Group (TSG) in London also have an armed reserve unit which has recently been expanded, and they patrol Central London in Armoured Vans on Anti-Terrorist Patrols known as Legion Patrols. The Diplomatic Protection Group (DPG) and Royalty Protection and Aviation Units (Airports) are also often heavily armed, as are the Ministry of Defence Police and the Civil Nuclear Constabulary, whilst the British Transport Police (London Underground and Rail Network) has also set up Armed Patrols in recent years.

SAS training police to deal with Mumbai-style terrorists - Telegraph

SAS troops 'to be deployed on the streets' to prevent terrorist attacks | Mail Online

Specialist Firearms Command - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Surtr · Oct 11, 2013

Re: National Crime Squad

They have a ways to go. Just look at that crossfire. The dummies would end up shooting each other if rounds were fired.

Chatter · Oct 11, 2013

Re: National Crime Squad

Surtr said:
They have a ways to go. Just look at that crossfire. The dummies would end up shooting each other if rounds were fired.

If you look at the photo some of the officers are pointing guns at the driver, whilst others at the passengers. In terms of firearms the police in Great Britain are generally unarmed, however those that require firearms have to undergo rigorous training and many organisations in the UK have close links and working relationships with their US and European Counterparts. The NCA will no doubt have a close working relationship with the FBI, just as London's Metropolitan Police has a close working relationship with the NYPD and British Intelligence services such as MI5 and MI6 have close working relationships with the FBI and CIA, and the same is true in terms of international fraud and cyber crime. This working relationships extends to training together and learning from each other and a number of British Police and NCA staff will have attended the FBI Academy, whilst the FBI and other US Agencies have sent officers to attend UK Law Enforcement Courses.

'No one is shot by mistake...': going under cover with Britain's police | Mail Online

Rainman05 · Oct 11, 2013

Re: National Crime Squad

So British Homeland Security?

Chatter · Oct 11, 2013

Re: National Crime Squad

Rainman05 said:
So British Homeland Security?

The NCA will be mainly involved in stopping organised crime, although it will be involved in areas areas such as Economic Crime, Child Protection, Human Trafficking and other organised crime activity, the NCA will also offer support to local forces in the shape of Serious Crime Analysis and will help identifying serial criminals involved in homicide or rape and will operate a database of all criminal injuries in order to identify patterns of injury or offending.

Counter Terrorism will remain the remit of MI5 and Scotland Yards Counter Terrorism Command (the lead Police Command in terms of terrorism)

Surtr · Oct 11, 2013

Re: National Crime Squad

Chatter said:
If you look at the photo some of the officers are pointing guns at the driver, whilst others at the passengers. In terms of firearms the police in Great Britain are generally unarmed, however those that require firearms have to undergo rigorous training and many organisations in the UK have close links and working relationships with their US and European Counterparts. The NCA will no doubt have a close working relationship with the FBI, just as London's Metropolitan Police has a close working relationship with the NYPD and British Intelligence services such as MI5 and MI6 have close working relationships with the FBI and CIA, and the same is true in terms of international fraud and cyber crime. This working relationships extends to training together and learning from each other and a number of British Police and NCA staff will have attended the FBI Academy, whilst the FBI and other US Agencies have sent officers to attend UK Law Enforcement Courses.

'No one is shot by mistake...': going under cover with Britain's police | Mail Online

I'm aware of where they're aiming, but their positioning is a prime example of what you don't do. Bullets can go through people (especially 9mm rounds, which are a high pressure, high velocity round), shooters can miss their target, shooters can panic. What I see in that picture is the wrong way to do it. You never, ever, EVER, get in front of the muzzle of another gun. Ever.

They just became an organization 4 days ago, so they aren't going to be perfect right off the bat. I'm just pointing out that they still have a lot of work to do in order to achieve a higher level of proficiency and effectiveness based on the photographs you've shown.

LaMidRighter · Oct 12, 2013

Re: National Crime Squad

Surtr said:
They have a ways to go. Just look at that crossfire. The dummies would end up shooting each other if rounds were fired.

I saw that too, more "Mexican stand off" than perimeter control.

Henrin · Oct 12, 2013

Re: National Crime Squad

Wow, lets all stand in a circle and point guns at each other. Maybe Britain should of banned their law enforcement from having guns if that was how they were going to train them. :doh

Chatter · Oct 12, 2013

Re: National Crime Squad

Surtr said:
I'm aware of where they're aiming, but their positioning is a prime example of what you don't do. Bullets can go through people (especially 9mm rounds, which are a high pressure, high velocity round), shooters can miss their target, shooters can panic. What I see in that picture is the wrong way to do it. You never, ever, EVER, get in front of the muzzle of another gun. Ever.

They just became an organization 4 days ago, so they aren't going to be perfect right off the bat. I'm just pointing out that they still have a lot of work to do in order to achieve a higher level of proficiency and effectiveness based on the photographs you've shown.

It was really a photo opportunity for the press at the launch of the Agency rather than a real life situation, in terms of firearms teams in the UK they are usually regarded as being very well trained and amongst the best in the world.

You actually wouldn't have press photographers standing all around you in such a situation either, and a lot of the stances in the photos were in order that the press could get good photographs of the officers and the new agency logo rather than being a lesson in tactics. In terms of armed robbery stops and car stops, the Metropolitan Police Flying Squad and indeed units like SCO19 have a good deal of experience as do the police service in Northern Ireland.

Thoreau72 · Oct 12, 2013

Re: National Crime Squad

RIP the iconic British Bobby!

Chatter · Oct 12, 2013

Re: National Crime Squad

Henry David said:
RIP the iconic British Bobby!

Not really, around 95% of police in Great Britain remain unarmed, whilst the National Crime Agency are not sworn police officers but civil servants known as agents.

National Crime Agency

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