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NASCAR being picked on by Liberal NBC

I can see the frustration from the NASCAR crowd but I can also see where the news person is coming from. Prejudice and racism are those subjects that no one will admit to even if they do it. You have to catch it in a casual setting, hence the way the columnist was stating in the email.

You would have to agree the majority of NASCAR fans are Republican and the stereotype is flag-waving, non-college educated, rednecks. These would be the individuals at the forefront of the racial battles still going on in the southern states.

I would say doing this at a NASCAR event would be a better place logically then say a Gay-pride parade in San Francisco, CA.

I do have to disagree with this statement:
While NBC News is at it, why not send a few Kluxers into the infield at Talladega? Talk about being short-sheeted by the end of the night.
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To meet the same intentions as the email they would have to drop a group of KKK members at a Raiders game or into the heart of Watts, California.

I have to ask you Donkey, if you were at a sporting event and there were a group of Muslims in full traditional outfits sitting around you would you feel completely comfortable?
 
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Gibberish said:
I can see the frustration from the NASCAR crowd but I can also see where the news person is coming from. Prejudice and racism are those subjects that no one will admit to even if they do it. You have to catch it in a casual setting, hence the way the columnist was stating in the email.

You would have to agree the majority of NASCAR fans are Republican and the stereotype is flag-waving, non-college educated, rednecks. These would be the individuals at the forefront of the racial battles still going on in the southern states.

I would say doing this at a NASCAR event would be a better place logically then say a Gay-pride parade in San Francisco, CA.

I do have to disagree with this statement:


To meet the same intentions as the email they would have to drop a group of KKK members at a Raiders game or into the heart of Watts, California.
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But you seemed to have not gotten from this is that NBC is creating news instead of reporting it. I've been to dozens of NASCAR events and haven't seen any sign of racism. All I see is a bunch of people having a good time. Is that so wrong?
 
Donkey1499 said:
But you seemed to have not gotten from this is that NBC is creating news instead of reporting it. I've been to dozens of NASCAR events and haven't seen any sign of racism. All I see is a bunch of people having a good time. Is that so wrong?
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Nothing at all and even when creating this story I doubt they would have come to the conclusion they were hoping would happen. It's a sporting event, people are there for a good time and the only "attacks" usually happen between rival teams rather then based on prejudice.

Because of the nature of the story being created a poll would be worthless because being racist is a big no-no so no one would admit to it. As I stated it has to be caught off-guard when the producing the racism is in a comfortable environment.
 
Here's my two cents:

I am happy to hear that they didn't find what they expected to find. That says a lot from those NASCAR fans. And I do think that NBC should continue to do the story and report that they didn't find what they expected. That would in my opinion be balanced.

However, I don't see anything wrong with NBC "making news". This is done all the time. These undercover sting segments are the only way to reveal that type of information and I do believe they have validity. However, to be fair they should report when the results are not what they expected.
 
disneydude said:
Here's my two cents:

I am happy to hear that they didn't find what they expected to find. That says a lot from those NASCAR fans. And I do think that NBC should continue to do the story and report that they didn't find what they expected. That would in my opinion be balanced.

However, I don't see anything wrong with NBC "making news". This is done all the time. These undercover sting segments are the only way to reveal that type of information and I do believe they have validity. However, to be fair they should report when the results are not what they expected.
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The original purpose for news media is to REPORT on the news, NOT MAKE it. That's what those papers like: The Sun, do. You can't get a Pulitzer Prize for fabricating stories, or at least you shouldn't be able to.

And how dare they even assume that NASCAR is a racist sport! Just because it is a pre-dominantly white/redneck sport it doesn't mean it's racist. Talk about stereotyping, sheesh!
 
Donkey1499 said:
The original purpose for news media is to REPORT on the news, NOT MAKE it. That's what those papers like: The Sun, do. You can't get a Pulitzer Prize for fabricating stories, or at least you shouldn't be able to.

And how dare they even assume that NASCAR is a racist sport! Just because it is a pre-dominantly white/redneck sport it doesn't mean it's racist. Talk about stereotyping, sheesh!
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There is no "Original purpose" for news media and I think it perfectly appropriate to engage in this type of reporting.

But I do agree with you that I think it does display some bias towards NASCAR fans because it is predominantly white. But there are even some of us "Liberals" that are NASCAR fans.
 
disneydude said:
There is no "Original purpose" for news media and I think it perfectly appropriate to engage in this type of reporting.

But I do agree with you that I think it does display some bias towards NASCAR fans because it is predominantly white. But there are even some of us "Liberals" that are NASCAR fans.
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Journalism:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/journalism

Mass Media/Medium:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/mass media

News:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/News


Says nothing about fabricating news or making up stuff.
 
OK, I am going to leave it at this....because I don't want to keep going back and forth.

However, there is a difference between fabricating and making something up and doing an undercover sting.

A good example would be with a police sting which is analogous to this situation.

Suppose that the cops want to arrest bike theives and so they set up a surveillance and plant an unlocked bike in front of a liquor store and wait to see if anyone will steal it. When they do, they arrest the person.

You can't say that the cops "Created" the crime. They certainly created the opportunity for the crime.
That is different that simply arresting someone and fabricating a police report.

If the news conduct an undercover sting such as taking an actor portraying a "Dumb" car owner and taking a perfectly running auto to a mechanic and exposing their dishonesty - you can't say that the story was fabricated. Its news because they expose the dishonest mechanic or whatever. Its a strategy to get news that would otherwise go unreported.
The same situation would apply to the NASCAR situation. However, I think there are some ethical considerations that may not have been addressed. But had the story turned out the way that they expected, you couldn't say that they fabricated the reaction or made them up. They provided the opportunity and then got the result. But that is different that simply fabricating.
Again, good journalists would report the fact that it didn't turn out the way they wanted otherwise it would be apparent that they have a bias because it didn't turn out the way they wanted.
 
disneydude said:
OK, I am going to leave it at this....because I don't want to keep going back and forth.

However, there is a difference between fabricating and making something up and doing an undercover sting.

A good example would be with a police sting which is analogous to this situation.

Suppose that the cops want to arrest bike theives and so they set up a surveillance and plant an unlocked bike in front of a liquor store and wait to see if anyone will steal it. When they do, they arrest the person.

You can't say that the cops "Created" the crime. They certainly created the opportunity for the crime.
That is different that simply arresting someone and fabricating a police report.

If the news conduct an undercover sting such as taking an actor portraying a "Dumb" car owner and taking a perfectly running auto to a mechanic and exposing their dishonesty - you can't say that the story was fabricated. Its news because they expose the dishonest mechanic or whatever. Its a strategy to get news that would otherwise go unreported.
The same situation would apply to the NASCAR situation. However, I think there are some ethical considerations that may not have been addressed. But had the story turned out the way that they expected, you couldn't say that they fabricated the reaction or made them up. They provided the opportunity and then got the result. But that is different that simply fabricating.
Again, good journalists would report the fact that it didn't turn out the way they wanted otherwise it would be apparent that they have a bias because it didn't turn out the way they wanted.
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:roll:

They still went in there with the intent to smear NASCAR and as a diehard fan (#07 - Clint Bowyer!) I'm just pissed off to the max!

Let's dress up a person in a FOX News t-shirt and send em' to NBC to see what happens. Let's dress up a black man to look poor and send him to Ted Kennedy's house to beg for money just to see what would happen. See, I can smear people too!
 
Donkey1499 said:
Says nothing about fabricating news or making up stuff.
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They weren't making anything up. If the news placed a muslim in the middle of a Nascar event and someone happen to attack that Muslim based on prejudice what exactly is being made up?

I see this as more of a sting operation more then anything. The news are trying to create a hopefully tense situation and see how people will react then report on the reaction.
 
Somewhere folks are getting the idea that these NBC guys were going to act out and that NBC is dead set on trying to say that whatever incidents they capture are representative of the US.
These two ideas are not supported by the facts that are available. Yet the impression exists. I'm not sure what the origin of these unusual conclusions is. Perhpas someone is demagoguing on this instance.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Somewhere folks are getting the idea that these NBC guys were going to act out and that NBC is dead set on trying to say that whatever incidents they capture are representative of the US.
These two ideas are not supported by the facts that are available. Yet the impression exists. I'm not sure what the origin of these unusual conclusions is. Perhpas someone is demagoguing on this instance.
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Again, why go to the only large crowd that still fly's the rebel flag.........no, Simon's right, this was completely innocent.:roll:
 
I don't think it's all that 'innocent'. Football and NASCAR? Why not just put as the title :Muslims in Redneck Land. This was dual-bigotry, assuming that Muslims don't really belong at middle-American sporting events and thinking that those attending the events would get pissy.
Of course, they'll wave it off as 'testing the true spirit of America's melting pot' or some kind of BS....
On a similar note, when NASCAR had its season-ending banquet in NY and the drivers 'raced' thru Manhattan for the crowds, the news organizations there made it a point of how nice it was that those good ol' boys (insert rolling of eyes here) chose their fine city. They then proceeded to 'interview' people on the street about NASCAR, to wit: 'Do you know who Tony Stewart is?' and of course, the answer, brought with the typical Nu Yawk accent would be, 'no'. New York news channels and newspapers don't cover NASCAR but for a 10 second blip if that. Newsradio88, a CBS affiliate, doesn't cover it at all and 'famed' sportscaster, Warner Wolf, once declared on tv during his sportscast that he doesn't feel any racing with cars is a sport, but he has to report on it. WTF?
I get really irritated at this perceived 'high-class' attitude of the news organizations, specially out of New York. They are out of touch and not very knowledgeable about the very things they claim to 'investigate'. Pfft on them all.
 
ngdawg said:
I don't think it's all that 'innocent'. Football and NASCAR? Why not just put as the title :Muslims in Redneck Land. This was dual-bigotry, assuming that Muslims don't really belong at middle-American sporting events and thinking that those attending the events would get pissy.
Of course, they'll wave it off as 'testing the true spirit of America's melting pot' or some kind of BS....
On a similar note, when NASCAR had its season-ending banquet in NY and the drivers 'raced' thru Manhattan for the crowds, the news organizations there made it a point of how nice it was that those good ol' boys (insert rolling of eyes here) chose their fine city. They then proceeded to 'interview' people on the street about NASCAR, to wit: 'Do you know who Tony Stewart is?' and of course, the answer, brought with the typical Nu Yawk accent would be, 'no'. New York news channels and newspapers don't cover NASCAR but for a 10 second blip if that. Newsradio88, a CBS affiliate, doesn't cover it at all and 'famed' sportscaster, Warner Wolf, once declared on tv during his sportscast that he doesn't feel any racing with cars is a sport, but he has to report on it. WTF?
I get really irritated at this perceived 'high-class' attitude of the news organizations, specially out of New York. They are out of touch and not very knowledgeable about the very things they claim to 'investigate'. Pfft on them all.
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They **** on you people, they think you less then, and they call you idiots, now they have a hidden agenda to show that very thing. They obviously failed, just as they have in election, after election, good luck with this reverese racism:roll:
 
Oh, btw, I go to the race in Bristol TN, watch every weekend and have yet to see a single rebel flag flown....just seems a bit of bigotry shimmering thru that halo, sir....:2wave:
If they want to see some idiots, they can just go to a producers' meeting....:roll:
 
ngdawg said:
Oh, btw, I go to the race in Bristol TN, watch every weekend and have yet to see a single rebel flag flown....just seems a bit of bigotry shimmering thru that halo, sir....:2wave:
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I wasn't gonna mention it, but since you did...
There've been a number comments here and other places that fit this mold in re their perceptions of the folks who go to NASCAR.
 
Donkey1499 said:
But you seemed to have not gotten from this is that NBC is creating news instead of reporting it. I've been to dozens of NASCAR events and haven't seen any sign of racism. All I see is a bunch of people having a good time. Is that so wrong?
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Number one, Dateline is not "the news". It is a program, which is entertainment. As well, Dateline baits on a regular basis. Is it information? Is it merely entertainment? I believe the show is both: informative entertainment. You can't take any of these shows too seriously, because after all, the bottom line and the rating are what matter.
 
I fail to see what the problem is. I would have liked to hear people's comments once they were out of earshot. I bet some racism would have been found. It doesn't really matter what the event is, whenever you have a sample as large as Nascar event, you will find racism. It doesn't matter if it is a football game, political convention, or religious revival. Racism does exist. I suspect it always will. NBC didn't invent racism.

And as far as the confederate flag goes, I don't understand why people are so proud of losing a war.
 
Uh....at NASCAR, there are no confederate flags....we said that already:roll:
If someone attending a race wants to wear one on their jacket, that's their choice.
Regarding racism in the sport, it's no different than any other. What actually surprised me is this: If one buys a VIP pass or a group has a suite, they have the privilege of going into the pit area, meeting with the crews, checking out the cars, even being stageside for the pre-race show and awards. A large number of those that enjoy these perks are black. Considering a suite goes at Bristol for about 10 grand, we're not talking a cheap picnic on Sunday here.
Money talks in sports and NASCAR is no exception and probably rakes in more cash because of commercial sponsorship of cars than any other. There are entire demographics they want in there; the good ol' boy caricature might still be around, but it's not a whole truth anymore-NASCAR is diversifying and doing it quite well, from women and black drivers to behind the scenes workers. They want the best and they want the income-green is the color of choice, not white.
 
ngdawg said:
Uh....at NASCAR, there are no confederate flags....we said that already:roll:
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I know, I didn't bring it up. I was just making a side comment about it. I didn't mean to associate it with all Nascar fans.
 
Gibberish said:
I can see the frustration from the NASCAR crowd but I can also see where the news person is coming from.
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You don't create the news, period. They could have gone to any race and just observed people of all racist and reported if they saw any signs of any racisim or prejudice. When you set it up and it's important that what you are looking for occours then you lose objectivity.

Now let's look at two key statments you make

Prejudice and racism are those subjects that no one will admit to even if they do it. You have to catch it in a casual setting, hence the way the columnist was stating in the email.
Click to expand...

And

You would have to agree the majority of NASCAR fans are Republican and the stereotype is flag-waving, non-college educated, rednecks. These would be the individuals at the forefront of the racial battles still going on in the southern states.
Click to expand...

So who is showing prejudice and what racial battles in the Southern states are you even talking about.

I would say doing this at a NASCAR event would be a better place logically then say a Gay-pride parade in San Francisco, CA.
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Again who is sterotyping?
 
What some people have to understand is that racists/bigots are everywhere. Yes there are some in NASCAR, but should the whole sport be labeled racist because of a few jack holes? HELL NO!

You show me one person on this website who isn't intolerant or hateful of ANYTHING and I'll give you a FREE coke or pepsi. :cool:
 
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