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Naming The Inevitability of Same-Sex CUDPs

With regard to the name I would prefer to be given to SS CUDPs:

  • I'm liberal or to the left of liberal, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm moderate, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    20

Ontologuy

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Let's reasonably say that same-sex commited romantic monogamous civil union domestic partnerships' (CUDPs) state recognition is inevitable one day in every state ..

.. And that the only remaining question is the name to be assigned to these CUDPs in state statutes.

What is your preference for the word to be used for identity purposes to name these state statutes: "marriage" or a different word other than marriage.

Please answer the poll question and explain why you gave your answer .. and please answer the question even if you are opposed to SS CUDP state recognition in general.

I'm liberal or to the left of liberal, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm liberal or to the left of liberal, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".
I'm moderate, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm moderate, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".
I'm centrist, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm centrist, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".
I'm conservative or to the right of conservative, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm conservative or to the right of conservative, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".
I'm libertarian, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm libertarian, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".

(Please wait a few minutes from this post for the poll to appear.)
 

penn1954

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Let's reasonably say that same-sex commited romantic monogamous civil union domestic partnerships' (CUDPs) state recognition is inevitable one day in every state ..

.. And that the only remaining question is the name to be assigned to these CUDPs in state statutes.

What is your preference for the word to be used for identity purposes to name these state statutes: "marriage" or a different word other than marriage.

Please answer the poll question and explain why you gave your answer .. and please answer the question even if you are opposed to SS CUDP state recognition in general.

I'm liberal or to the left of liberal, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm liberal or to the left of liberal, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".
I'm moderate, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm moderate, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".
I'm centrist, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm centrist, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".
I'm conservative or to the right of conservative, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm conservative or to the right of conservative, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".
I'm libertarian, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm libertarian, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".

(Please wait a few minutes from this post for the poll to appear.)

I'm conservative & Civil Union would be my preference.

Too me its an abomination but to each his own.
 

Ontologuy

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I'm conservative & Civil Union would be my preference.

Too me its an abomination but to each his own.
The poll is now up, so you can reply to the poll now if you wish.
 

rocket88

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Let's reasonably say that same-sex commited romantic monogamous civil union domestic partnerships' (CUDPs) state recognition is inevitable one day in every state ..

.. And that the only remaining question is the name to be assigned to these CUDPs in state statutes.

What is your preference for the word to be used for identity purposes to name these state statutes: "marriage" or a different word other than marriage.

Please answer the poll question and explain why you gave your answer .. and please answer the question even if you are opposed to SS CUDP state recognition in general.

I'm liberal or to the left of liberal, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm liberal or to the left of liberal, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".
I'm moderate, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm moderate, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".
I'm centrist, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm centrist, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".
I'm conservative or to the right of conservative, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm conservative or to the right of conservative, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".
I'm libertarian, and I prefer the word "marriage".
I'm libertarian, and I prefer a word other than "marriage".

(Please wait a few minutes from this post for the poll to appear.)

I'm left leaning moderate and I approve this message!

No, seriously I don't care what it's called. Call it a gay pumpkin for all I care, as long as the rights are the same. I voted "prefer marriage" but honestly I don't care.

I realize that some gays and some ant-SSM folks are really hung up on terminology, but I personally can't see the issue in what it's called.
 

TheNextEra

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If it looks like marriage, acts like marriage, it IS marriage.
 

Ontologuy

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For the informational record ..

.. Most of the states that presently do not support SS "marriage" have state constitutional clauses that stipulate in effect that "marriage is only between a man and a woman as husband and wife".

In my opinion, it will be easier to effect SS CUDPs in these states if the effort is made to name them something other than "marriage".

So for those of you with a utilitarian foundation to get state recognition for SS CUDPs, that may be something to consider before you respond to the poll ..

.. Or, maybe not, maybe you would prefer to simply answer ideologically, and to hell with practical utilitarianism on this one.
 

Baralis

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Libertarianism is what I align with the closest.

I say call it what it is, domestic contract(s).
 
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The right wing insanity.

PC LIBBs want to control our thoughts and language. We cant use the N word.

Marriage is our word we want a law that you can't use it.
 

Helix

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it's marriage, so i'd call it marriage.
 

Lakryte

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I didn't select an option because none of them were correct. The name given to same sex unions should be the same as the name given to opposite sex unions, since legally there is no difference. As long as the name and the license is the same, it doesn't matter. Call it marriage, call it a civil union--doesn't matter.
 

Rainman05

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I'm guessing marriage.
 

Einzige

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Libertarian/marriage
 

Ontologuy

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I didn't select an option because none of them were correct. The name given to same sex unions should be the same as the name given to opposite sex unions, since legally there is no difference. As long as the name and the license is the same, it doesn't matter. Call it marriage, call it a civil union--doesn't matter.
Why would you not select option number 9: I'm libertarian, and I prefer the word "marriage"?
 

Jerry

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Libertarianism is what I align with the closest.

I say call it what it is, domestic contract(s).
There's a lot of different kinds of 'domestic contracts', though.
 

Jerry

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I want gays to have the word marriage because I'm an asshole and it would liven things up around here.
 

Lakryte

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Why would you not select option number 9: I'm libertarian, and I prefer the word "marriage"?
Because I don't prefer the word marriage. As I said, I don't care what the name is as long as the name given to same-sex unions and opposite-sex unions is the same under the law.
 

Sarcogito

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"Hey, guess what? We got married!"

"Hey, guess what? We got civil unionized…united civilly…civilly united…united in civility… F$%^ it. We got married!"

Even just from a purely aesthetic point of view, go with "marriage".
 

CaptainCourtesy

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For the informational record ..

.. Most of the states that presently do not support SS "marriage" have state constitutional clauses that stipulate in effect that "marriage is only between a man and a woman as husband and wife".

In my opinion, it will be easier to effect SS CUDPs in these states if the effort is made to name them something other than "marriage".

So for those of you with a utilitarian foundation to get state recognition for SS CUDPs, that may be something to consider before you respond to the poll ..

.. Or, maybe not, maybe you would prefer to simply answer ideologically, and to hell with practical utilitarianism on this one.

Or, perhaps, based on polling and the societal shift towards support SSM, you understand that from a utilitarian standpoint, supporting SSM would be accurate... unless your ideology is all you can focus on.
 

chromium

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I am trying to decide whether this is NP's sock or Scalia in disguise. The tears are so delicious.
 

Ontologuy

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Or, perhaps, based on polling and the societal shift towards support SSM, you understand that from a utilitarian standpoint, supporting SSM would be accurate... unless your ideology is all you can focus on.
:yawn:

There is no "societal shift" towards support of the ludicrous oxymoronic SS "marriage".

There's only a small increase in the number of those susceptible to brainwashing from being repetitively subjected to mantric chanting of oxymoronic phrases.

That's not a consciously deliberated "societal shift" ..

.. Even if ideologues like to imagine that's the case.

Clearly, as I accurately presented in the other thread and will do so here again if you insist, when you remove "marriage" from the SS CRM CUDP option and replace that oxymoron with a more accurate descriptive word -- like "homarriage" -- support for recognition jumps to 70% .. and support for the ludicrous oxymoronic SS "marriage" drops to a mere 37%, that 37% likely composed of liberals, homosexuals (understandably), "friends of", and the like ..

.. Hardly a major "societal shift". :lol:
 

Captain Adverse

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Let's reasonably say that same-sex commited romantic monogamous civil union domestic partnerships' (CUDPs) state recognition is inevitable one day in every state ..

.. And that the only remaining question is the name to be assigned to these CUDPs in state statutes.

What is your preference for the word to be used for identity purposes to name these state statutes: "marriage" or a different word other than marriage.


Before I can answer I need some clarification. Are you stating that currently opposite sex committed romantic monogamus "marriages" are really civil union domestic partnerships and we just call them marriages?
 

CaptainCourtesy

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:yawn:

There is no "societal shift" towards support of the ludicrous oxymoronic SS "marriage".

Of course there is a social shift towards support of the accurately described SSM. in 1996 support was at 27%. Now it is at 53%.

For First Time, Majority of Americans Favor Legal Gay Marriage
You denying the facts of this... well documented facts is pretty poor debating and completely dishonest in behavior.

There's only a small increase in the number of those susceptible to brainwashing from being repetitively subjected to mantric chanting of oxymoronic phrases.

That's not a consciously deliberated "societal shift" ..

.. Even if ideologues like to imagine that's the case.

I know you want this to be true, but your professing is irrelevant when compared to the facts that prove you wrong.

Clearly, as I accurately presented in the other thread and will do so here again if you insist, when you remove "marriage" from the SS CRM CUDP option and replace that oxymoron with a more accurate descriptive word -- like "homarriage" -- support for recognition jumps to 70% .. and support for the ludicrous oxymoronic SS "marriage" drops to a mere 37%, that 37% likely composed of liberals, homosexuals (understandably), "friends of", and the like ..

.. Hardly a major "societal shift". :lol:

You were destroyed in that thread... completely and totally. You presented data that proved your position WRONG. It was actually pretty funny, and funnier still was watching you run away and distance yourself from your own data by making silly unsupported claims that you STILL haven't substantiated even though you were challenged to do so... certainly because you can't.

So, what have we learned? In 17 years there has been a major societal shift... 27% to 53% support. The data you provided in the other thread hillariously proved your own position incorrect, and your claims in your attempt to distance yourself from that data (after it was demonstrated to destroy your argument) have still not been substantiated. And finally, that not only do you present erroneous information, distort facts or data, but when challenged, you refuse to support your positions with any information. If you disagree, feel free to dispute WITH LINKS. For example, I provided a link to the major shift in support for SSM. You are required to provide links for anything you propose that disputes those numbers. You are also required to provide links for your comments regarding conservatives not voting in those particular polls and other ways that you tried to distance yourself from the study that you provided... because it proved you wrong. If you cannot or refuse to substantiate your positions, then we know that they are not REAL and have no basis in fact.

So, let's see the substantiation.
 

Ontologuy

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Before I can answer I need some clarification. Are you stating that currently opposite sex committed romantic monogamus "marriages" are really civil union domestic partnerships and we just call them marriages?
States grant marriage licenses.

To do so, they create statutes specifying the civil union domestic partnership of marriage and the terms for granting a license.

They do this for economic, taxation, social, etc. reasons of the need to specifically document what a marriage is and that it has occurred.

Though the specific statute terminology may differ by state, they're all pretty much the same, and for the sake of expediency I've referred to them in general as CUDPs.

Marriage itself is roughly 12,000 years old, created just before the agricultural revolution as being between a man and a woman as husband and wife .. and over time governments have found it necessary to document that this form of CUDP, a marriage, exists.

So the poll question implies that, one way or the other, SS couples' committed romantic monogamous relationships will need to also be documented in state statutes as a civil union domestic partnership and with a specific name to identify the type of CUDP: "marriage" "homarriage", or something else.
 

Captain Adverse

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States grant marriage licenses.

To do so, they create statutes specifying the civil union domestic partnership of marriage and the terms for granting a license.

They do this for economic, taxation, social, etc. reasons of the need to specifically document what a marriage is and that it has occurred.

Though the specific statute terminology may differ by state, they're all pretty much the same, and for the sake of expediency I've referred to them in general as CUDPs.

Marriage itself is roughly 12,000 years old, created just before the agricultural revolution as being between a man and a woman as husband and wife .. and over time governments have found it necessary to document that this form of CUDP, a marriage, exists.

So the poll question implies that, one way or the other, SS couples' committed romantic monogamous relationships will need to also be documented in state statutes as a civil union domestic partnership and with a specific name to identify the type of CUDP: "marriage" "homarriage", or something else.

Thank you. I just wanted to understand the underlying nature of the poll.

Based upon your explanation I would say they should also be called marriages, if for no other reason than to cement the idea in society that they do, in fact, carry all the same rights, privileges, and benefits an opposite-sex couple obtain through this process.

Now let me just go up and figure out which of the multiple "marriage" options fits my category of political belief...lol :)
 
Last edited:

Ontologuy

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Of course there is a social shift towards support of the accurately described SSM. in 1996 support was at 27%. Now it is at 53%. For First Time, Majority of Americans Favor Legal Gay Marriage You denying the facts of this... well documented facts is pretty poor debating and completely dishonest in behavior. I know you want this to be true, but your professing is irrelevant when compared to the facts that prove you wrong. You were destroyed in that thread... completely and totally. You presented data that proved your position WRONG. It was actually pretty funny, and funnier still was watching you run away and distance yourself from your own data by making silly unsupported claims that you STILL haven't substantiated even though you were challenged to do so... certainly because you can't. So, what have we learned? In 17 years there has been a major societal shift... 27% to 53% support. The data you provided in the other thread hillariously proved your own position incorrect, and your claims in your attempt to distance yourself from that data (after it was demonstrated to destroy your argument) have still not been substantiated. And finally, that not only do you present erroneous information, distort facts or data, but when challenged, you refuse to support your positions with any information. If you disagree, feel free to dispute WITH LINKS. For example, I provided a link to the major shift in support for SSM. You are required to provide links for anything you propose that disputes those numbers. You are also required to provide links for your comments regarding conservatives not voting in those particular polls and other ways that you tried to distance yourself from the study that you provided... because it proved you wrong. If you cannot or refuse to substantiate your positions, then we know that they are not REAL and have no basis in fact. So, let's see the substantiation.
:sigh:

As I'm sure you know, when people are asked only about whether SS couples should be allowed to "marry", you're going to get a different answer than when you give the public more information and a real and legitimate choice.

Here's that choice, as reflected in this thread's poll questions from a major participation poll:

Here's a link of relevant polled questions: On Same-Sex Relationships.

"Do you believe gays and lesbians should be allowed to get legally married, allowed a legal partnership similar to but not called marriage, or should there be no legal recognition given to gay and lesbian relationships?"

.............................Legally married....legal partnership....No legal recognition....Unsure
....................................%............. .........%..........................%............. .......%
5/13-15/12...................37......................33... ......................25.....................5
8/10-11/10...................37......................29... ......................28.....................6
5/12-13/09...................33......................33... ......................29.....................5
11/4-5/06 LV................30......................30...... ...................32.....................7
6/13-14/06...................27.....................25.... ......................39.....................8
5/18-19/04...................25.....................26.... ......................40.....................9
3/3-4/04......................20......................33 .........................40.....................7

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Notice that the most recent response causes a drop from your 53 percentage for the oxymoronic SS "marriage" to 37 percent!

And, notice that the 29 percent who favor recognition but not oxymoronically calling it "marriage" came from, not only the "marriage" group but from the opposed to SS "marriage" group.

Thus supporting SS recognition jumps to 70% if you call it rightly something other than "marriage".

This proves my point that the majority does not support SS .. wait for it .. .. marriage, as 63% do not support SS "marriage" though 70% want SS relationships recognized. :cool:

Now sure, there will be extreme ideologues who'll refuse anything other than the oxymoronic "marriage" as the term for these SS recognitions, but they're a really tiny and unreasonable extreme.

Clearly SS organizers would have much more success if they'd simply heed what I'm saying and work to create homarriage domestic partnership civil unions in every state.

Now if you want to point out that from 2004 to half way through 2012 that support for the oxymoronic SS "marriage" has increased from 20 to 37%, be my guest.

Reality remains that 63% remain opposed to the oxymoronic SS "marriage" .. and no matter how often the media or SS activists brainwash the public via chanting the oxymoronic mantra "same-sex marriage", despite what these liberal-slanted polls reveal, the great majority, centrists, plus conservatives too, will continue to be opposed to the oxymoronic SS "marriage".

Again, you have nothing but wishful ideology .. and even if you trot out a small-sample poll that is even more liberally slanted in a failed attempt to override this poll I provided which was corroborated throughout the polls in the link .. well, again, you'll only be attempting to corrupt reality.

By the way .. didn't you post earlier somewhere that you work with homosexuals, that you counsel them or something?

Is it not possible that your viewpoint here could be a little biasedly clouded?

I think that's highly possible.
 
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