Myth of Male Power[W:166,W:829]

[roguenuke]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Yes, but only because of the sperm characteristics in the male and female sperm. The distance traveled needs to be lower for the male sperm due to it not being as well suited for the conditions of the womans body, while a shorter distance takes advantage of it's speed. Female sperm are better for longer journeys due to its ability to better withstand the environment which will increase it's chances against male sperm.

If you really want to get picky you could also say that depending on the man your chances of having a male or female child is decreased or increased. This is due to some men having more male sperm than female sperm and others having more female sperm than male sperm.

In the end, the sperm itself is still determining the sex, it just that chances are higher of one sex or the another in given situations.

I understand that, but it still isn't as simple as "the man determines the sex". It is based on a lot of factors.

I will say though that if a woman marries a male nuclear power worker and they plan to procreate, she should expect to have mainly daughters. It isn't something that has been exactly studied (although it should be), but it does make some sense given the nature of each sperm type (X or Y) and the nature of radiation (one of the first areas of the body affected is genitalia). Y sperm are faster, but X sperm are more durable, whether in the womb or in the tubules of a man. As a Navy nuke, one of the first things you realize going through school, is that a lot of the school staff (nukes themselves, who have experience on ships and working in the plants) have daughters. Once we start to learn more about radiation, and with a little knowledge about how each "gender" of sperm are, it seems pretty likely that this could be an unintended consequence of working around radiation.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Like the way it's rejecting traditional gender roles and homophobia

As a direct result of which, birth rates have plummeted well below sustainable levels, and the family unit has basically begun to discintegrate. Both of these factors weaken Western Civilization on a longterm cultural and econmic basis, and ultimately pave the way for our intrinsically rotten society to be supplanted by the far more prosperous up and coming powers of the far east. :roll:

The nonsense "egalitarian" notion that childbirth and family life are somehow "beneath" modern women (and even men) you advocate will most likely wind up dooming the Western World to irrelevance just as surely as the Spanish nobility's conviction that business was "beneath" them ultimately rung the death knell for their empire in the 17th and 18th centuries at the hands of the far more industrious British.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Which word did you not understand?






They were all social deviants.

This sounds like Patti Smith's "Rock and Roll Nigger"

 

[sangha]

Re: Myth of Male Power

This sounds like Patti Smith's "Rock and Roll Nigger"

Nice allusion!

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Nice allusion!

I figured maybe 5 people here would get it-you being the obvious one.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Myth of Male Power

As a direct result of which, birth rates have plummeted well below sustainable levels, and the family unit has basically begun to discintegrate. Both of these factors weaken Western Civilization on a longterm cultural and econmic basis, and ultimately pave the way for our intrinsically rotten society to be supplanted by the far more prosperous up and coming powers of the far east. :roll:

The nonsense "egalitarian" notion that childbirth and family life are somehow "beneath" modern women (and even men) you advocate will most likely wind up dooming the Western World to irrelevance just as surely as the Spanish nobility's conviction that business was "beneath" them ultimately rung the death knell for their empire in the 17th and 18th centuries at the hands of the far more industrious British.

I don't read that in any of his posts. Just that artificial gender roles serve no purpose.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Myth of Male Power

I don't read that in any of his posts. Just that artificial gender roles serve no purpose.

He's straight up told me in other threads that harboring any expectation whatsoever that women utilize their reproductive organs or maternal instincts in the manner clearly intended by nature is "misogynist."

Frankly, even if he hadn't said anything of the kind, the point would still stand. Regardless of what he or anyone else might have originally intended, what I described in my post is exactly what the degradation of traditional morality and gender roles has wound up causing anyway; the creation of a veritable horde of selfish, self-centered people with no sense of sexual morality or responsibility to speak of subsidizing their short term hedonism at the expense of our society's long term stability.

That kind of thing simply cannot be sustained forever free of consequence.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Re: Myth of Male Power

So I heard about a book, and a friend described the essential point. It is actually an interesting concept, and it is important when considering discussions about "sexism" and what actually falls under that category.

A premise I am putting forward (and keep in mind I am generalizing the point): men are expendable. Women are invaluable. Less men are needed, biologically speaking, to sustain the species. And what is an almost universal role that men must play? Protector. Soldier. Guardian. Roles of "power" or "leadership," but also roles of extensibility, risk, and essential danger. Men are expected to assume this role?

Now. I am not saying this is always true, but it is true enough to give thought isn't it?

It's not new or earth shattering. That's how you learn about gender differences when studying things like cultural anthropology. It's a very well researched and studied topic.

It would be interesting to read the cases in which this is either not true at all, or exploited to gain as many males as possible to feed the killing machines of war, and the gutting gears of politics for religious, financial, and nationalistic gain.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Myth of Male Power

He's straight up told me in other threads that harboring any expectation whatsoever that women utilize their reproductive organs or maternal instincts in the manner clearly intended by nature is "misogynist."

No I think you misunderstand nature. There is no natural intention. Intention is man made and it is simply your interpretation of nature.

Frankly, even if he hadn't said anything of the kind, the point would still stand. Regardless of what he or anyone else might have originally intended, what I described in my post is exactly what the degradation of traditional morality and gender roles has wound up causing anyway; the creation of a veritable horde of selfish, self-centered people with no sense of sexual morality or responsibility to speak of subsidizing their short term hedonism at the expense of our society's long term stability.

It is completely self centered to claim ones own traditions and customs to be superior to others. just because you want to lock sexuality into strictly male and female roles and declaring anything outside of your acceptable realm of sexuality as hedonism and therefore the "death of society" is simply blaming the current scapegoat for societys ills. Instead of coming up with bizarre ways to tag the blame on the latest group of liberated people focus on fixing the society from yourself.

Peace and love begin and end with you, ad long as you are at peace and know love it can't be snatched away. In other words blaming the downfall of society on others is typically a diversion technique. I can only focus on that which I can control. I make sure my son and my husband are loved and that I give them my love ad much as I can. It doesn't matter that I have a penis because the most important thing is love and life those two things being degraded are the major ills of all societies. Hedonism plays no role and your sexual morality leaves people unloved for the sake of a hollow tradition, after all the most gracious gift a person can give to one that he loves is acceptance. Traditions sometimes drive a wedge between loving people and giving that prized gift.

That kind of thing simply cannot be sustained forever free of consequence.

It always has, hedonism predates judaism and christianity by millennia and has been an integral part of western society. moderation is necessary but we are all a little hedonistic we all enjoy sex and we should that is how our species flourished.

The battle between the two is what is unsustainable. It can be avoided by a simple live and let live philosophy. People just have to but in and tell me how to raise a child or that I am unfit because my partner is my same gender. But it happened to be that Evan and I were the only ones that have enough of a crap to rescue that boy. When attending church with my family i was sneered at for my act of selflessness. The terrible thing about it those "so called" Christians wouldn't have lifted a finger to help Chris.

So looking down on me because of the people I have sex with is extremely self centered and arrogant two things that interrupt that flow of love.

I think there is an infection this self centeredness that ones own traditions are the only correct ones. I am not saying abandon them but examine them for their validity. Can two men love each other, can they love a child, isn't that all family is? If you have to have opposing genitalia then you aren't really capable of love. You have placed a condition upon it.

The downfall of societal morality is the hypocrisy within it.

 

[DDD]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Too much tradition and traditional gender roles and there is stability but there is a danger of sexual freedom and break of hedonism. Too much egalitarianism and there is sexual freedom and hedonism but there is the risk of uncontrolled sex and producing more bastards and instability with family values going down with that.

Should we go for a balance between the two or devise a completely new third approach if there is one?

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Myth of Male Power

No I think you misunderstand nature. There is no natural intention. Intention is man made and it is simply your interpretation of nature.

Without children, there is no human race. Without a family, there is no civilization. I'm sorry, but that's about as close to "natural intention" as you're ever going to get.

Would you argue that nature never intended for us to sleep, drink, or eat as well?

The simple fact of the matter is that things were naturally designed to function in a certain way. If one goes out of their way to deliberately ignore that design, thing tend to be thrown out of balance.

It is completely self centered to claim ones own traditions and customs to be superior to others. just because you want to lock sexuality into strictly male and female roles and declaring anything outside of your acceptable realm of sexuality as hedonism and therefore the "death of society" is simply blaming the current scapegoat for societys ills. Instead of coming up with bizarre ways to tag the blame on the latest group of liberated people focus on fixing the society from yourself.

Not quite. This is an objective fact.

STDs have absolutely exploded since the onset of the so called "sexual revolution." Likewise, so too has single motherhood increased exponentially with the rise of no-fault divorce and the decline of marriage.

Both of these factors strain our economy. The direct medical expenses of STDs are estimated to cost the American healthcare system in upwards of 16 billion dollars each year. Single motherhood and illegitimacy, meanwhile, directly contribute to our society's growing problem with government dependence, as most of these women are either unable to provide for themselves, or are only barely able to do so.

Given the fact that unwed single mothers now account for almost half of all new births in the United States each year and the STD rate is now well over 1 in 4 and rising, this is a rather significant problem.

The long term economic and structural problems caused by overly low fertility rates are also quite well studied. A shortage of young people to replace the existing work force will ultimately lead to a shrinking workforce, consumer population, and therefore economy.

Population Reference Bureau - Low Fertility Not Politically Sustainable

Considering the fact that our governments are already just shy of broke, and our economies are in tatters while showing absolutely no sign of recovering any time soon, I wouldn't exactly say that a more expensive and less economically productive future especially bodes well for the Western World's continued global relevance.

So looking down on me because of the people I have sex with is extremely self centered and arrogant two things that interrupt that flow of love.

"Love," as you seem to define it, is a means to an end. Nothing more, and nothing less. It is a temporary rush of hormones meant to drive the human body into performing the essential task of reproduction.

Frankly, most people in today's world don't have a single clue what real "love" even is in the first place.

I'm sorry, but hedonistic "lust" is not "love." Self-gratification is not the end all and be all of one's existence.

I think there is an infection this self centeredness that ones own traditions are the only correct ones. I am not saying abandon them but examine them for their validity. Can two men love each other, can they love a child, isn't that all family is? If you have to have opposing genitalia then you aren't really capable of love. You have placed a condition upon it.

Homosexuality isn't even really what I'm talking about here. This goes far deeper than that.

 

[sangha]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Some people believe that people who do not adhere to traditional gender roles are incapable of producing children.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Some people believe that people who do not adhere to traditional gender roles are incapable of producing children.

And our unsustainably low 0.7% population growth rate (which, sadly enough, also happens to be among the highest in the Western World) would seem to support that conclusion. :roll:

Did you ever have children? I doubt it.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Myth of Male Power

So I heard about a book, and a friend described the essential point. It is actually an interesting concept, and it is important when considering discussions about "sexism" and what actually falls under that category.

A premise I am putting forward (and keep in mind I am generalizing the point): men are expendable. Women are invaluable. Less men are needed, biologically speaking, to sustain the species. And what is an almost universal role that men must play? Protector. Soldier. Guardian. Roles of "power" or "leadership," but also roles of extensibility, risk, and essential danger. Men are expected to assume this role?

Now. I am not saying this is always true, but it is true enough to give thought isn't it?

Men ARE more powerful than women in our society. Physically it's quite obvious. A little more insidious in other ways. At least in our country, men are more often team players than women; and, in unity, there is strength -- on the battlefield and in the boardroom.

It's probably genetic.

But a really smart women? She can get whatever she needs. Just that there aren't many really smart women when it comes to boardrooms. (Maggie ducks and runs in the other direction.)

 

[sangha]

Re: Myth of Male Power

And our unsustainably low 0.7% population growth rate (which, sadly enough, also happens to be among the highest in the Western World) would seem to support that conclusion. :roll:

Our population growth rate is 0.9% and there's nothing "unsustainable" about a positive PGR unless it's too large.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Our population growth rate is 0.9%

According to what?

and there's nothing "unsustainable" about a positive PGR unless it's too large.

If growth is no longer high enough to keep up with death rates, and therefore keep the population stable, it rather clearly is not "sustainable."

U.S. Birth Rate Not High Enough To Keep Population Stable

 

[ChrisL]

Re: Myth of Male Power

According to what?



If growth is no longer high enough to keep up with death rates, and therefore keep the population stable, it rather clearly is not "sustainable."

U.S. Birth Rate Not High Enough To Keep Population Stable

Nothing wrong with less people IMO.

 

[ChrisL]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Men ARE more powerful than women in our society. Physically it's quite obvious. A little more insidious in other ways. At least in our country, men are more often team players than women; and, in unity, there is strength -- on the battlefield and in the boardroom.

It's probably genetic.

But a really smart women? She can get whatever she needs. Just that there aren't many really smart women when it comes to boardrooms. (Maggie ducks and runs in the other direction.)

Are you sure you aren't a dude? The way you speak of women sometimes . . . Maybe you're just projecting your OWN insecurities onto all women?

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Nothing wrong with less people IMO.

When it means fewer people to work, and fewer people to buy the products companies manufacture, therefore leading to an overall decline economic growth and productivity, it tends to be something of a problem.

"Recession" is basically the only possible outcome.

 

[ChrisL]

Re: Myth of Male Power

When it means fewer people to work, and fewer people to buy the products companies manufacture, therefore leading to an overall decline economic growth and productivity, it tends to be something of a problem.

"Recession" is basically the only possible outcome.

I don't think so. We have too many people now and not ENOUGH jobs for all of them.

 

[sangha]

Re: Myth of Male Power

According to what?

List of countries by population growth rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If growth is no longer high enough to keep up with death rates, and therefore keep the population stable, it rather clearly is not "sustainable."

Ummm, PGR is calculated by including deaths. A positive PGR means the population is growing, even after taking deaths into account.

You're confusing birth rates with PGR, as your link proves. Keep up the good work! :lamo

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Myth of Male Power

I don't think so. We have too many people now and not ENOUGH jobs for all of them.

That would only get worse with a declining population. It would basically result in an endless loop of negative feedback.

A reduced workforce results in fewer consumers with disposable income. This cuts down on profit margins for companies, and therefore leads them to cut down on the workforce even farther.

Japan is already feeling the effects of this.

Forbes - A Japanese Crisis Nears

Well, when you have government debt at 24x government revenue and interest expenses taking up 25% of government revenue, it becomes a very big issue. Rising interest expenses mean Japan has less to spend on other things, such as social security for its ageing population.

Real GDP is a function of population growth plus productivity growth. Japan has a declining working age population, which makes the task extremely difficult. If you working age population declines by 1%, you roughly need a 3% increase in productivity (not achieved by many in the developed world) to get to 2% GDP growth.

Population growth fuels economic growth. It always has. Pairing aging populations and pitifully low birthrates with a monstrously over-bloated welfare state is a recipe for disaster.

 

[sangha]

Re: Myth of Male Power

That would only get worse with a declining population. It would basically result in an endless loop of negative feedback.

Our population is growing and is projected to keep on growing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_growth

 

[ChrisL]

Re: Myth of Male Power

That would only get worse with a declining population. It would basically result in an endless loop of negative feedback.

A reduced workforce results in fewer consumers with disposable income. This cuts down on profit margins for companies, and therefore leads them to cut down on the workforce even farther.

Japan is already feeling the effects of this.

Forbes - A Japanese Crisis Nears





Population growth fuels economic growth. It always has. Pairing aging populations and pitifully low birthrates with a monstrously over-bloated welfare state is a recipe for disaster.

You can't compare us with the island nation of Japan. I understand your point about an aging population, but really that's the only point you have, and in reality that would be encouraging more immigration.

 

[ChrisL]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Our population is growing and is projected to keep on growing

Projections of population growth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree. We still have one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the world.