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My rant against homophobic black rappers

CriticalThought

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I work as a substance abuse counselor with kids. In the years I have been involved in this work I have noticed a pattern. My clients love prominent black rappers. Chief Keef, Lil Wayne, and Boosie Badazz are a few that come to mind. These kids can quite literally recite entire albums by heart but could not quote a single line from the Constitution or their family Bible. I have tried to understand the music, but it is generally glorifying drug use, gangs, violence against women, sex, materialism, or just being a thug. I am not saying all rap music by black artists is this way, but it blows my mind how tolerated and even celebrated some of it is, not just by kids but grown adults. I have generally tried to take a relativistic view of this music, but today I came across this article.

Boosie Badazz Says Television Is Forcing Young Kids to Be Gay | Complex

This is an artist who has a great deal of influence over a lot of young people's minds. Some of them even happen to identify as gay or bisexual. He then shares nuggets of wisdom like these...

"They tryna make everybody ****ing gay," Boosie said. "They putting it on our culture. They’re putting it everywhere. Gay stuff is everywhere. I think that they’re just trying to do it to make a monetary gain. They’re not doing it for the gays. They’re not really fans of the gays. They’re doing it for monetary gain, man. They try to make money off these people, man."

"You got cartoons that have gays. On Cartoons! These are kids. Let kids make their own decision if they wanna go that way. Six and seven year old, five year old shouldn’t be turned onto gay cartoon when their mind not even developed yet. What if they like how that cartoon talk? Now, you’re forcing them to be gay. Every TV show is gays. They’re kissing each other. It’s out of hand."

Follow that up with if he found out his own son was gay he would "slap his ass back straight" and he would do what he could to beat his child into liking women. To his credit he admits if his blatant child abuse did not work he would find some "crazy way" to deal with it so his son could stay in his life.

This is a tipping point for me with this music. This man talks about a pollution of culture but what do you think he does? Feel free to read the lyrics of some of his songs since I would almost certainly not be allowed to directly post them here.

LIL BOOSIE lyrics

He talks about the entertainment industry monetarIly profiting off of gays but isn't he just profiting off the black community? How does his music do anything but perpetuate the societal ills experienced by the black community? I don't know if you can convert an impressionable young mind into being gay, but I am certain you can convert one into a weed smoking thug who thinks the answer to all life's problems is to become a successful rap artist.

I am really trying to find some peace with all this but it bothers me. This is a sad counterculture. Going to prison is cool. Using drugs is cool. Having several baby mommas is cool. Using violence to prove you are a man is cool. Making money selling drugs is cool. And yet, the media representing more gays is forcing a bad message on developing young minds?

What the hell?
 

Northern Light

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He's partly correct about marketing to gays. A lot of companies are lead by people who couldn't care less about gays but they will sure invest money in sponsorship of pride parades in order to exploit a niche market. Capitalism has honed in on the gay niche but it's not furthering their rights one iota.

The rest is par for the course type non-sense.
 

CriticalThought

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He's partly correct about marketing to gays. A lot of companies are lead by people who couldn't care less about gays but they will sure invest money in sponsorship of pride parades in order to exploit a niche market. Capitalism has honed in on the gay niche but it's not furthering their rights one iota.

The rest is par for the course type non-sense.

I disagree. True, some of it is just good business and taking advantage of the latest PC fad, but there is little incentive for companies to get politically involved such as they did in North Carolina with the bathroom bill. It will not hurt their bottom line to not take a stance on such a matter and it will not significantly improve it by getting involved. I think the increasing presence of gays in media also tends to normalize it for the general public and seeing those kinds of characters gives some gays more courage to live openly, which in turn reduces stigma.
 

SmokeAndMirrors

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I work as a substance abuse counselor with kids. In the years I have been involved in this work I have noticed a pattern. My clients love prominent black rappers. Chief Keef, Lil Wayne, and Boosie Badazz are a few that come to mind. These kids can quite literally recite entire albums by heart but could not quote a single line from the Constitution or their family Bible. I have tried to understand the music, but it is generally glorifying drug use, gangs, violence against women, sex, materialism, or just being a thug. I am not saying all rap music by black artists is this way, but it blows my mind how tolerated and even celebrated some of it is, not just by kids but grown adults. I have generally tried to take a relativistic view of this music, but today I came across this article.

Boosie Badazz Says Television Is Forcing Young Kids to Be Gay | Complex

This is an artist who has a great deal of influence over a lot of young people's minds. Some of them even happen to identify as gay or bisexual. He then shares nuggets of wisdom like these...

Follow that up with if he found out his own son was gay he would "slap his ass back straight" and he would do what he could to beat his child into liking women. To his credit he admits if his blatant child abuse did not work he would find some "crazy way" to deal with it so his son could stay in his life.

This is a tipping point for me with this music. This man talks about a pollution of culture but what do you think he does? Feel free to read the lyrics of some of his songs since I would almost certainly not be allowed to directly post them here... (char)

There is a pretty serious homophobia problem in the poorer and more disadvantaged parts of the black community, to the point where it basically hasn't evolved beyond what it was in general American culture back in the 50's. The concept of being on the "down low" as a gay man is almost exclusive to black men now, at least if we're talking in people under 40.

I've wondered about this, in conjunction with the more damaging elements of certain areas of black culture, and I wonder if it has something to do with stigma management.

Different groups react to stigma in different ways, depending on what the stigma against them is, and what their social factors are.

For example, women sometimes react by trying to conform more to the "ideal" of stereotypical male mental and emotional qualities. The old, "All women are catty bitches, except me! That's why all my friends are guys." They've internalized the social message that women are mentally inferior, and paint themselves as the exception as a work-around to having some sort of respect in society.

But a big part of why they do that is because it's not really possible for women to have their own neighborhoods, ya know? Most women are attracted to men. All women have male relatives. So it makes sense, if they live in a very sexist sort of community, that they would try to conform to a male stereotype standard as a way of stigma management.

But black people can have their neighborhoods, and a different identity. I think, for those in the most disadvantaged communities, a lot of how they do stigma management is in hyper-conformity to the machismo standard, to the point of even pushing it beyond what it is in white society. Black men are seen as "scary," but they're also at risk for subjugation, so they embrace that "scariness" as a way to give themselves and their communities a wide berth, and keep the subjugators out.

They take the basic premise of machismo seen in white society (being sort of cold, extremely sexual, risk taking, powerful, etc) and push it to the extreme as their form of stigma management and self-protection.

And that includes the belief that being gay is an effeminate state of being, and femininity is bad and weak. Male homosexuality, in a paradigm defined by being intentionally scary as a way of defence, represents a "weakness," a vulnerable link in the chain of male scariness that they use to protect their general world.

From what I've seen, this is most common in the most poverty-stricken of black communities -- the ones that feel the greatest need to protect themselves.

I see it much less in black communities that are younger, ascending urban types -- those who've come of age with fewer disadvantages as opportunity for black people slowly improves. And their music is also different. Rap and R&B are still dominant, but the artists they listen to are a lot less problematic or hyper-machismo. The genre has even gained a new term: PBR&B, representing how it's seen as a sort of "black hipsterism."

That hasn't reached all communities yet, though.

That's my basic idea, anyway.
 

Sparky2

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Ignorance, a conspicuous absence of a reliable father figure in one's life, and (as Smoke&Mirrors indicates) a culture of hyper-machismo misogyny, all conspire to keep urban black youths in a perpetual state of poverty and over-reliance on government handouts.

The loathsome attitudes toward gays is only part and parcel of it.
The narrative shoved down their throats goes like this; real black men, really-admirable gangstas, they use women, hate gays, kill cops, strut tall, sag low, baby-daddy litters of unsupported children, and spend their drug money on tall rims and gold grills.

Couple that with a purposeful campaign on the part of their elected (and non-elected) leaders to sustain the myth of lifelong 'victim-hood', and you have a dependable, reliable population of permanent Democrat voters.

Ironic too, considering that the same pack of elected and non-elected politicians also pander to gays for their votes as well.

It would almost be funny if it weren't so tragic and shabby.
:x
 

Lovebug

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There is a pretty serious homophobia problem in the poorer and more disadvantaged parts of the black community, to the point where it basically hasn't evolved beyond what it was in general American culture back in the 50's. The concept of being on the "down low" as a gay man is almost exclusive to black men now, at least if we're talking in people under 40.

I've wondered about this, in conjunction with the more damaging elements of certain areas of black culture, and I wonder if it has something to do with stigma management.

Different groups react to stigma in different ways, depending on what the stigma against them is, and what their social factors are.

For example, women sometimes react by trying to conform more to the "ideal" of stereotypical male mental and emotional qualities. The old, "All women are catty bitches, except me! That's why all my friends are guys." They've internalized the social message that women are mentally inferior, and paint themselves as the exception as a work-around to having some sort of respect in society.

But a big part of why they do that is because it's not really possible for women to have their own neighborhoods, ya know? Most women are attracted to men. All women have male relatives. So it makes sense, if they live in a very sexist sort of community, that they would try to conform to a male stereotype standard as a way of stigma management.

But black people can have their neighborhoods, and a different identity. I think, for those in the most disadvantaged communities, a lot of how they do stigma management is in hyper-conformity to the machismo standard, to the point of even pushing it beyond what it is in white society. Black men are seen as "scary," but they're also at risk for subjugation, so they embrace that "scariness" as a way to give themselves and their communities a wide berth, and keep the subjugators out.

They take the basic premise of machismo seen in white society (being sort of cold, extremely sexual, risk taking, powerful, etc) and push it to the extreme as their form of stigma management and self-protection.

And that includes the belief that being gay is an effeminate state of being, and femininity is bad and weak. Male homosexuality, in a paradigm defined by being intentionally scary as a way of defence, represents a "weakness," a vulnerable link in the chain of male scariness that they use to protect their general world.

From what I've seen, this is most common in the most poverty-stricken of black communities -- the ones that feel the greatest need to protect themselves.

I see it much less in black communities that are younger, ascending urban types -- those who've come of age with fewer disadvantages as opportunity for black people slowly improves. And their music is also different. Rap and R&B are still dominant, but the artists they listen to are a lot less problematic or hyper-machismo. The genre has even gained a new term: PBR&B, representing how it's seen as a sort of "black hipsterism."

That hasn't reached all communities yet, though.

That's my basic idea, anyway.

That is a pretty good assessment. Where I differ is that black or white culture segregates not along color lines, but by etiquette and refinement. I don't see much difference between poverty stricken communities.
Segregation or seeking out ones peers? We, as a society, have to live by certain rules and standards, and we seek out those who are willing to live by those rules, or live among those who don't.

All celebrities have enormous power. They can influence the young and the old alike. Adult celebrities are a reflection of their upbringing, what they know, what is in their heart.
Doing right by their fans, the most impressionable minds, means being a responsible adult. Too many are not. They have much difficulties working out their own issues, they are much too self absorbed and self righteous, too greedy.
We have heard it from country singers who's cheating, drinking and no good husband or wife left them, or their boyfriend left them single with three kids to feed, we hear it from rappers, who have no respect for women or the law, and don't get me started on actors.
Yet they are idolized for what exactly? Because they have fame by some fluke? They have more money? Surely not because they are different or better or smarter than the rest of us.
Who is responsible for their fame? It is not the kids, is it? Adults are good role models, right? We show the kids how it's done.
We admire kings, queens, movie stars, singers, sports figures, and the list goes on. We forget that all of us are human, and no one takes the price. We are born, we live, we die.
 

SmokeAndMirrors

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That is a pretty good assessment. Where I differ is that black or white culture segregates not along color lines, but by etiquette and refinement. I don't see much difference between poverty stricken communities.
Segregation or seeking out ones peers? We, as a society, have to live by certain rules and standards, and we seek out those who are willing to live by those rules, or live among those who don't.

All celebrities have enormous power. They can influence the young and the old alike. Adult celebrities are a reflection of their upbringing, what they know, what is in their heart.
Doing right by their fans, the most impressionable minds, means being a responsible adult. Too many are not. They have much difficulties working out their own issues, they are much too self absorbed and self righteous, too greedy.
We have heard it from country singers who's cheating, drinking and no good husband or wife left them, or their boyfriend left them single with three kids to feed, we hear it from rappers, who have no respect for women or the law, and don't get me started on actors.
Yet they are idolized for what exactly? Because they have fame by some fluke? They have more money? Surely not because they are different or better or smarter than the rest of us.
Who is responsible for their fame? It is not the kids, is it? Adults are good role models, right? We show the kids how it's done.
We admire kings, queens, movie stars, singers, sports figures, and the list goes on. We forget that all of us are human, and no one takes the price. We are born, we live, we die.

I certainly agree there is much less of a difference between poor communities of various colors than people often think. In fact, that meme that they're "so different" is one of the big things the powerful use to keep the poor fighting with each other. It's been working since the early slave era, when slave owners started getting concerned with black and white slaves working together to revolt, so they invented the "indentured servant" title for the white, to get them to fight with each other over who was freer. And we still see it keeping them fighting even now.

However, I do still think the particularly hard-up black communities still manifest it a bit more extremely, due to the extra dose of stigma. Poor white communities get joked about, but poor black ones are the ones that everyone is constantly attacking. With very poor white communities, it's simply that the last 40 years of progress haven't reached them yet. With the black communities, it's that, but also this sort of self-defence mechanism, I think. It does seem a bit more extreme to me.

I don't see many people voluntarily moving into the worst-off black communities, if I'm honest. I don't think that really explains it. If anything, they move OUT at the soonest available opportunity. Unfortunately a lot of them never get that opportunity.

But those who do sometimes wind up becoming those rappers who make this kind of crap. Moving out of the ghetto doesn't mean they didn't still grow up in the ghetto.

As always, fixing this issue is a lot more complex than just telling people who have nothing -- often not even a passable basic education -- to just "do better." We could start by actually funding their schools and giving them some sort of workable path in life besides crime (which would include using prison as rehab, not just a holding cell where gangs roam free and they're forced to join one just to avoid rape).
 

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I certainly agree there is much less of a difference between poor communities of various colors than people often think. In fact, that meme that they're "so different" is one of the big things the powerful use to keep the poor fighting with each other. It's been working since the early slave era, when slave owners started getting concerned with black and white slaves working together to revolt, so they invented the "indentured servant" title for the white, to get them to fight with each other over who was freer. And we still see it keeping them fighting even now.

However, I do still think the particularly hard-up black communities still manifest it a bit more extremely, due to the extra dose of stigma. Poor white communities get joked about, but poor black ones are the ones that everyone is constantly attacking. With very poor white communities, it's simply that the last 40 years of progress haven't reached them yet. With the black communities, it's that, but also this sort of self-defence mechanism, I think. It does seem a bit more extreme to me.

I don't see many people voluntarily moving into the worst-off black communities, if I'm honest. I don't think that really explains it. If anything, they move OUT at the soonest available opportunity. Unfortunately a lot of them never get that opportunity.

But those who do sometimes wind up becoming those rappers who make this kind of crap. Moving out of the ghetto doesn't mean they didn't still grow up in the ghetto.

As always, fixing this issue is a lot more complex than just telling people who have nothing -- often not even a passable basic education -- to just "do better." We could start by actually funding their schools and giving them some sort of workable path in life besides crime (which would include using prison as rehab, not just a holding cell where gangs roam free and they're forced to join one just to avoid rape).

It is not a matter of voluntarily moving into a community, but more one of adapting. When moving into a ? more affluent area, one is expected to "behave" a certain way, at least on the surface. What's going on behind closed doors is another topic altogether.
I.e., when one moves up from the trailer park, one should realize that an old raggy recliner isn't the right front porch furnishing, and neither is sitting on the porch drinking beer, burping and singing Hank Williams songs on top or your lungs until 2 am.(please substitute with any offending behavior you wish to)
 

SmokeAndMirrors

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It is not a matter of voluntarily moving into a community, but more one of adapting. When moving into a ? more affluent area, one is expected to "behave" a certain way, at least on the surface. What's going on behind closed doors is another topic altogether.
I.e., when one moves up from the trailer park, one should realize that an old raggy recliner isn't the right front porch furnishing, and neither is sitting on the porch drinking beer, burping and singing Hank Williams songs on top or your lungs until 2 am.(please substitute with any offending behavior you wish to)

That might work for people who just lived how they did for lack of other options, but the stigma management thing is an entire mindset -- an orientation in how one views the world. It's not as easy to get rid of as simply getting new porch furniture.

Let me use myself as an example, here.

I'm an immigrant to the UK, from the US. Specifically, I'm someone who, although I didn't grow up in poverty, I did grow up with a lot of bigotry-fuelled violence in my community (I was near Bachmann's district through the back half of my childhood, during the years where she enforced laws protecting bullies and perpetrators of hate crime, when it had the highest teen suicide rate in the country). Then, I spent the early years of my adulthood travelling alone -- and my head for danger served me well numerous times.

No matter how long I live here, I am always going to think differently than people who were born here, or even people who grew up in places in America that didn't have those issues (although I think the difference is less dramatic, because Americans generally have a fairly self-contained way of viewing themselves).

I am inherently more paranoid. I am inherently someone who prepares for everything. I am inherently more of a "show me" kind of person, and I'm slower to warm.

There's also the subtle things. It took me a long time to identify this, but there's a certain confusion that happens when you talk to some people, even though they're speaking your language.

I am very good with the British accents -- I can even follow most of the stronger Scottish ones fairly easily.

But it's not just words we're listening to when we talk to people. It's also inflection. And British inflections are very different from American ones. They speak from a different part of their throats, use the opposite tonality to indicate a question, and all kinds of other things too subtle for me to describe well.

I get all the words, but sometimes, with certain accents, my brain has a half-second delay in understanding the inflection. That's a half-second where I don't know if they're being nice or mean, serious or joking. My mind has to work harder to understand the meaning, even when I understand all the words.

It's subtle, and probably not something most immigrants can explain. It's probably the sort of thing I can only describe because I've spent my entire life doing writing and oratory.

But that tiny, half-second delay that I have with some British people, where I don't know if they're welcoming or rejecting me, is the tiny space in which a world of difference exists.

This is my home now. But I'll always have been born somewhere else, and that's made me the kind of person I am. I'll continue to change as I get older, but I can't ever just erase the first 25 years of my life.

It's the same for people who manage to go from destitute poverty and dysfunction to being wealthy.
 
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Hatuey

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There is a pretty serious homophobia problem in the poorer and more disadvantaged parts of the black community, to the point where it basically hasn't evolved beyond what it was in general American culture back in the 50's. The concept of being on the "down low" as a gay man is almost exclusive to black men now, at least if we're talking in people under 40.

I've wondered about this, in conjunction with the more damaging elements of certain areas of black culture, and I wonder if it has something to do with stigma management.

Different groups react to stigma in different ways, depending on what the stigma against them is, and what their social factors are.

For example, women sometimes react by trying to conform more to the "ideal" of stereotypical male mental and emotional qualities. The old, "All women are catty bitches, except me! That's why all my friends are guys." They've internalized the social message that women are mentally inferior, and paint themselves as the exception as a work-around to having some sort of respect in society.

But a big part of why they do that is because it's not really possible for women to have their own neighborhoods, ya know? Most women are attracted to men. All women have male relatives. So it makes sense, if they live in a very sexist sort of community, that they would try to conform to a male stereotype standard as a way of stigma management.

But black people can have their neighborhoods, and a different identity. I think, for those in the most disadvantaged communities, a lot of how they do stigma management is in hyper-conformity to the machismo standard, to the point of even pushing it beyond what it is in white society. Black men are seen as "scary," but they're also at risk for subjugation, so they embrace that "scariness" as a way to give themselves and their communities a wide berth, and keep the subjugators out.

They take the basic premise of machismo seen in white society (being sort of cold, extremely sexual, risk taking, powerful, etc) and push it to the extreme as their form of stigma management and self-protection.

And that includes the belief that being gay is an effeminate state of being, and femininity is bad and weak. Male homosexuality, in a paradigm defined by being intentionally scary as a way of defence, represents a "weakness," a vulnerable link in the chain of male scariness that they use to protect their general world.

From what I've seen, this is most common in the most poverty-stricken of black communities -- the ones that feel the greatest need to protect themselves.

I see it much less in black communities that are younger, ascending urban types -- those who've come of age with fewer disadvantages as opportunity for black people slowly improves. And their music is also different. Rap and R&B are still dominant, but the artists they listen to are a lot less problematic or hyper-machismo. The genre has even gained a new term: PBR&B, representing how it's seen as a sort of "black hipsterism."

That hasn't reached all communities yet, though.

That's my basic idea, anyway.

Amazingly well thought out post.


Sent from a flower watered by the tears of Trump supporters and crazy newb liberals.
 

chromium

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He's partly correct about marketing to gays. A lot of companies are lead by people who couldn't care less about gays but they will sure invest money in sponsorship of pride parades in order to exploit a niche market. Capitalism has honed in on the gay niche but it's not furthering their rights one iota.

The rest is par for the course type non-sense.

you're right of course, except a few companies have pulled up shop in rare cases with highly publicized attempts at anti gay laws, like indiana and north carolina

if they actually cared they would put investment in charity like homes for gay youth, or to get equal rights passed in the remaining 28 states (my state for instance had funding issues with a ballot drive for employment/housing protection), and not to sponsor a goddamn parade
 
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