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My Political Platform

RightatNYU said:
Okay, look. I really admire the fact that you're active in politics, that you know what you want, and you're willing to argue for it. Honestly, I think it's a trait that's severly lacking in today's society. I'm operating under the assumption that you're a high school student, probably 17, and looking at colleges. When you get to college, try to take a class or two on the constitution. Because your interpretations, while well meaning, and admirable for the attempt, are off.


"Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State."


That right there in a nutshell says "If a contract is entered legally in one state, and then the person whom it was done to travels to another state, the other state must recognize the legality of the contract."

This applies to states that have differing ages for marriage (In a recent case, a 14 year old and a 20 year old wanted to get married. The state they lived in did not permit that, so they went to Kansas, where 14 is the minimum age for marriage. They were married, and went back to their home state, which was forced to recognize the marriage.) This is the reason why gay marraige cannot be handled state by state.

And regarding your ban on soft money proposal. The courts have held, over and over, that money = speech. You simply cannot ban soft money. It doesn't work. You just get 527 groups like we saw in 2004 which I argued were worse than the problem.

First of all, I'm 20, and if colleges teach young people as poorly as they've taught you, I think that I'll stay clear of them. Stare decisis upheld Plessy vs. Ferguson for 58 years. That is called judicial activism. "Full faith and credit" does not imply that laws on anything must necessarily be uniform from state to state unless it is mandated by the Constitution or by Congress. Read this again:

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Let me translate that for you: "Full faith and credit" is specifically mentioned as a phrase to be interpreted by Congress. If I didn't know better, I'd assume that you were in the 3rd grade.
As for soft money, you are again leaning on stare decisis. That is your excuse for upholding Roe vs. Wade and it is also your excuse for supporting soft money. The Constitution takes precedence over all Supreme Court decisions. In fact, the Judicial Branch of government has un-Constitutional power at the present time in violation of Article III, Section 2.
 
Arts&Sciences said:
The government currently spends the majority of its money on welfare,

No. It doesn't. I don't know how much more clear cut you want me to get, but you're wrong. The entire department of Health and Human Services which encompasses food stamps, all income redistribution programs, HUD, etc only has a budget of slightly over 500 billion. Only 14.5% of the federal budget is spent on income redistribution. Privatizing that does not suddenly eliminate those costs. Money does not come out of nothing.

an overwhelming majority when social security is included.

Social Security is not a welfare program.

If I privatized half of it, I could pay off the national debt doing that alone in roughly ten years. Either you are lying or you know absolutely nothing about fiscal policy.

Hmmm. So either I'm lying, or one of the best Public Policy schools in the country http://wagner.nyu.edu/ hasn't taught me a thing. Maybe it's choice number 3, you don't really know what you're talking about.

As for Pat Buchanan, you don't like him because he describes you too well. You are pro-abortion, an intolerant secularist and you support high government spending- but for the military rather than the poor. You are a liberal who happens to like warfare. That is more dangerous than "typical" liberalism because you want to spread your valuelessness across the world by force.

I am "pro-abortion, an intolerant secularist and support high government spending?"

That would explain why I'm a Roman Catholic who's opposed to abortion and looks at cutting federal spending as the single most important task facing the government now. You sure do know how to mark people...
 
Arts&Sciences said:
First of all, I'm 20, and if colleges teach young people as poorly as they've taught you, I think that I'll stay clear of them. Stare decisis upheld Plessy vs. Ferguson for 58 years. That is called judicial activism.

Actually, in a technical sense, it was overturning Plessy that was "judicial activism," but that's a side issue...

"Full faith and credit" does not imply that laws on anything must necessarily be uniform from state to state unless it is mandated by the Constitution or by Congress. Read this again:

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Let me translate that for you: "Full faith and credit" is specifically mentioned as a phrase to be interpreted by Congress. If I didn't know better, I'd assume that you were in the 3rd grade.

Did I say the laws HAD to be uniform? No. But if states want to have different laws, they have to be prepared to accept the laws of other states. Regarding the example that I put forth before, does every state have the same age requirements for marriage? No. But if two people get married in one state and move to another, they are still married, whether or not that new state would allow it.

So, it's not that states can't decide how they want to regulate marriage on their own. It's just that I don't think Texas will be happy when they have to offer the same benefits to a gay couple that was married in Massachusetts. Therein lies the problem, and the reason why a federal decision is the only logical solution.

As for soft money, you are again leaning on stare decisis. That is your excuse for upholding Roe vs. Wade and it is also your excuse for supporting soft money. The Constitution takes precedence over all Supreme Court decisions. In fact, the Judicial Branch of government has un-Constitutional power at the present time in violation of Article III, Section 2.

Uh, yes. Stare decisis is kind of a big deal. Precedent is one of the most powerful tools of the court, and the idea that you can somehow shift the court out of the judicial mainstream because you think it's been off track for however many dozens of years is not logical nor practical.

And so the judicial branch has unconstitutional power right now? What exactly do you propose be done to them?
 
This is the definition of welfare, and it does include social security, Medicare and Medicaid:

: aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need (Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary)

Stare decisis is a meaningless custom. Plessy vs. Ferguson was judicial activism. It happened to be ultraconservative judicial activism (as opposed to the liberal judicial activism that you support). It blatantly violated the 14th Amendment. As I said, all that the clause would require is that if a couple married in one state they could not be arrested for having done so in another. So you remain a liberal activist who happens to like war.
 
RightatNYU said:
No. It doesn't. I don't know how much more clear cut you want me to get, but you're wrong. The entire department of Health and Human Services which encompasses food stamps, all income redistribution programs, HUD, etc only has a budget of slightly over 500 billion. Only 14.5% of the federal budget is spent on income redistribution. Privatizing that does not suddenly eliminate those costs. Money does not come out of nothing.

Social Security is not a welfare program.

Yes it is.

Hmmm. So either I'm lying, or one of the best Public Policy schools in the country http://wagner.nyu.edu/ hasn't taught me a thing. Maybe it's choice number 3, you don't really know what you're talking about.

Try option #1.

I am "pro-abortion, an intolerant secularist and support high government spending?"

That would explain why I'm a Roman Catholic who's opposed to abortion and looks at cutting federal spending as the single most important task facing the government now. You sure do know how to mark people...


John Kerry is a "Roman Catholic" as well. As a former Catholic myself, I can assure you that the church does not approve of the language on your user profile (which I viewed to see your phony political leaning). You attacked my pro-life stance right off, which is another violation of Catholic teachings on your part. If you oppose school prayer you obviously didn't listen to the late John Paul II. I've never seen such obvious hypocrisy.
Perhaps you should be learning a bit more about your faith.
 
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I hadn't looked closely. So you're a moderator? I suppose that I have to treat you as a superior then. :roll:
 
Arts&Sciences said:
This is the definition of welfare, and it does include social security, Medicare and Medicaid:

: aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need (Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary)

You're shooting yourself in the foot here. By your own definition, welfare is aid for those in NEED. Neither Social Security nor Medicare is means tested. Rich get it just like the poor. Everyone pays in, and everyone gets out, roughly proportional to what they put in. Medicaid on the other hand is a form of welfare, albeit one directed mostly toward the elderly and disabled. So you need to rethink your proposal.

Stare decisis is a meaningless custom.

It's a damn shame that it's a litmus test to get on the court then, isn't it?

Plessy vs. Ferguson was judicial activism. It happened to be ultraconservative judicial activism (as opposed to the liberal judicial activism that you support). It blatantly violated the 14th Amendment.

And overturning it was overturning decades of precedent. Just as rare and just as out of the mainstream.

As I said, all that the clause would require is that if a couple married in one state they could not be arrested for having done so in another.

No. Again, you're wrong. It would require the other state to offer the same benefits to married couples.

So you remain a liberal activist who happens to like war.

However you like to describe it.
 
Arts&Sciences said:
Yes it is.

See above.

Try option #1.

You haven't actually refuted the numbers I put forth that showed exactly how wrong your claims were.

John Kerry is a "Roman Catholic" as well. As a former Catholic myself, I can assure you that the church does not approve of the language on your user profile (which I viewed to see your phony political leaning). You attacked my pro-life stance right off, which is another violation of Catholic teachings on your part. If you oppose school prayer you obviously didn't listen to the late John Paul II. I've never seen such obvious hypocrisy.
Perhaps you should be learning a bit more about your faith.

And I can assure you that the church doesn't give a rats ass about the language I use in my profile. When did I attack your pro-life stance? If you'll go back and read again, I wasn't attacking, but explaining that your position on that issue was far to the right of the median voter, and as such was likely to doom your platform from the start. Nowhere did I express my own personal views on the issue. And you are aware that many of the people who want to keep prayer out of the schools are religious, right?

I'm well aware of what my faith entails, thank you.
 
Arts&Sciences said:
I hadn't looked closely. So you're a moderator? I suppose that I have to treat you as a superior then. :roll:

Not at all. Carry on.
 
RightatNYU said:
You're shooting yourself in the foot here. By your own definition, welfare is aid for those in NEED. Neither Social Security nor Medicare is means tested. Rich get it just like the poor. Everyone pays in, and everyone gets out, roughly proportional to what they put in. Medicaid on the other hand is a form of welfare, albeit one directed mostly toward the elderly and disabled. So you need to rethink your proposal.

My basic idea is to make them means tested through privatization. You know as well as I do that they are commonly referred to as welfare.

It's a damn shame that it's a litmus test to get on the court then, isn't it?

Being pro-abortion is a "litmus test" to get on the Supreme Court if the Democrats are in control. You're taking God's name in vain. I might also note that your avatar is indecent.

And overturning it was overturning decades of precedent. Just as rare and just as out of the mainstream.

Judicial activism has nothing to do with whether or not an idea is "mainstream". Judicial activism is changing the meaning of the Constitution.
No. Again, you're wrong. It would require the other state to offer the same benefits to married couples.

No, Congress has the discretion to decide the extent to which a law must be applied in all states. But again, I have a feeling that you already know that.

However you like to describe it.

You're pro-abortion and anti-school prayer. You call yourself a "conservative" only because you're hawkish. Other than Comrade Brian, I haven't seen anyone further left than you.
 
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Okay, I'll at least give you credit for not pulling rank on me, RightatNYU.
 
Arts&Sciences said:
My basic idea is to make them means tested through privatization. You know as well as I do that they are commonly referred to as welfare.

Actually, again, you're wrong. Among policy experts and the general public alike, Social Security is NOT viewed as welfare. Social Security is one of this country's most popular domestic programs specifically because it is not means tested. Everyone pays, everyone gets.

And how do you think privatizing Social Security would fix the deficit? Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are falling into a pit. Privatizing them would only stem the fall, not make 8 trillion dollars up. I'm going to have to ask you to get me a source on this. Try Cato, try Heritage, try AEI, try the Manhattan Institute, try any conservative thinktank you can come up with, and you won't find one who agrees with you.

Being pro-abortion is a "litmus test" to get on the Supreme Court if the Democrats are in control. You're taking God's name in vain. I might also note that your avatar is indecent.

Regardless of the truth of that statement, you're not addressing the statement I made. Stare decisis is a generally accepted judicial principle, and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone of merit who doesn't support it.

And are you making fun of my girlfriend? Shaniqua will beat your ass for that.

Judicial activism has nothing to do with whether or not an idea is "mainstream". Judicial activism is changing the meaning of the Constitution.

And I defy you to show me where in the constitution it says that stare decisis is unconstitutional. I've already showed you where the full faith and credit clause rejects your claims.

No, Congress has the discretion to decide the extent to which a law must be applied in all states. But again, I have a feeling that you already know that.
No. Every state must respect the legally entered contracts of other states.

You're pro-abortion and anti-school prayer. You call yourself a "conservative" only because you're hawkish. Other than Comrade Brian, I haven't seen anyone further left than you.

I think that's more material for the sig...thank you!
 
Arts&Sciences said:
Other than Comrade Brian, I haven't seen anyone further left than you.

Hi. :2wave: Now you've met two.

Since you claim to be a centrist, I should agree with half of your points then. Well let's take a look-see:

1. Shift funds that currently go to abortions to abortion alternatives and to expanding adoption programs. Make a Human Life Amendment banning abortion in all circumstances.

:rofl Umm. No.

2. Divide Iraq into three countries for the Sunnis, the Shiites and the Kurds and withdraw our troops over the course of 1 year. Focus our foreign policy more on covert aid to enemies of extreme governments than the overt use of force.

Covert aid has worked just as well as overt force. See Latin America. Seriously, a divided Iraq would be to small to defend itself. And the Shiites would join Iran and we probably don't want to make them more powerful right now.

So no.

3. Pay off the national debt once and for all. Privatize half of all welfare within 10 years and repeal Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy.

Is anyone saying we shouldn't pay off the debt? I don't think you should include that. I mean everyone would like to pay it off, but...

And why would private companies invest in welfare? That makes no sense. But appealing the tax cut is a fine idea.

So mostly no.

4. Legalize school prayer and lessen federal involvement in education.

Ha ha. No.

5. Re-enter the Kyoto Protocol after negotiating better terms for the United States.

Why should we get better terms than everyone else? No.

6. End gun control except on fully automatic weapons (machine guns).

So no gun controls for criminals huh? Regardless, no.

7. Aim for fair trade instead of free trade or permanent protectionism.

Sounds good

8. Phase out all regulations on immigration over a 5-year period.

So anyone can immigrate here if they want to? I'm a liberal and I still think that's a bad idea.

9. Phase out affirmative action over a 10-year period and leave the issue of gay marriage to the states.

Yes and no. Federal governments gotta take a stand on that one. States weren't given the option of letting women vote. It should be the same thing.

10. Ban all soft money in all elections.

What, all money? I'm for limiting donations, but all is too much.




So what's the damage? Couple yeses...mostly nos. I'd say you're pretty conservative.
 
Okay, once and for all, stare decisis is a custom and nothing more. Hence rulings in favor of soft money have been based on a misinterpretation of the First Amendment and should be overturned.
As for Article IV, Section 1, let me show it to you yet again:

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Therefore, Congress has the discretion to decide how the Tenth Amendment can be applied to gay marriage. Moreover, I wish that you would be honest. If you were a devout Christian, you wouldn't use that language or have that avatar. Just admit that you're secular. If you were a conservative, you would support school prayer and oppose killing unborn babies. Just admit that you're a liberal, hawkish or not.
Finally, before you attack someone's ideas, you should actually understand them in their entirety. You did know from the beginning that I was referring to Medicare and social security with the term welfare, which does in fact refer to programs other than strict wealth redistribution. My plan was not only to allow private social security accounts (and raise the eligibility age to 68), but also to privatize half of Medicare and Medicaid by giving 150% tax deductions to people who donate to selected private charities. I would repeal Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy while eliminating unemployment insurance and those other assorted programs that you mentioned. I would also withdraw slowly from Iraq and cut defense spending to pre-9/11 levels. That would pay off the national debt. Drilling in the ANWR and giving tax incentives for alternative energy production, combined with short-term protectionism, would eliminate the trade deficit.
 
Kelzie said:
Hi. :2wave: Now you've met two.

Since you claim to be a centrist, I should agree with half of your points then. Well let's take a look-see:



:rofl Umm. No.



Covert aid has worked just as well as overt force. See Latin America. Seriously, a divided Iraq would be to small to defend itself. And the Shiites would join Iran and we probably don't want to make them more powerful right now.

So no.



Is anyone saying we shouldn't pay off the debt? I don't think you should include that. I mean everyone would like to pay it off, but...

And why would private companies invest in welfare? That makes no sense. But appealing the tax cut is a fine idea.

So mostly no.



Ha ha. No.



Why should we get better terms than everyone else? No.



So no gun controls for criminals huh? Regardless, no.



Sounds good



So anyone can immigrate here if they want to? I'm a liberal and I still think that's a bad idea.



Yes and no. Federal governments gotta take a stand on that one. States weren't given the option of letting women vote. It should be the same thing.



What, all money? I'm for limiting donations, but all is too much.




So what's the damage? Couple yeses...mostly nos. I'd say you're pretty conservative.

Well, you can say that if you want, but RightatNYU is just as far to the left as you. I thank you, though, for admitting to your actual political leanings.
 
Arts&Sciences said:
Well, you can say that if you want, but RightatNYU is just as far to the left as you. I thank you, though, for admitting to your actual political leanings.

I don't think so...he doesn't appear to be fond of meat alternatives, and that's one of the requirements to get in our club. :mrgreen:
 
Arts&Sciences said:
Okay, once and for all, stare decisis is a custom and nothing more.

You're right. It just happens to be a custom that senators on both sides of the aisle think is important enough to ask about in hearings for court nominees, and is important enough that the vast majority of legal scholars consider anyone who doesn't believe in it to be outside the judicial channel.

Just a custom? The entire court is BUILT on custom. How much do you know about the day to day functionings of the Supreme Court?


Hence rulings in favor of soft money have been based on a misinterpretation of the First Amendment and should be overturned.

Uh....how on earth does your first point imply that?

As for Article IV, Section 1, let me show it to you yet again:

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Therefore, Congress has the discretion to decide how the Tenth Amendment can be applied to gay marriage.

I'm going to settle this once and for all:

"Without doubt the constitutional requirement, Art. IV, § 1, that 'full faith and credit shall be given in each State to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other State,' implies that the public acts of every State shall be given the same effect by the courts of another State that they have by law and usage at home." Chicago & Alton R.R. v. Wiggins Ferry Co (1887).

There it is for you, Artie. In the courts own words, in particularly emphatic terms.

If you want, we can have a little game. There's a court case which would offer your argument a little traction, although in the end it doesn't carry enough weight to prove your argument. If you can find it, I'll explain to you why it doesn't work.

Hint: It was in the 1980's.

Moreover, I wish that you would be honest. If you were a devout Christian, you wouldn't use that language or have that avatar. Just admit that you're secular. If you were a conservative, you would support school prayer and oppose killing unborn babies. Just admit that you're a liberal, hawkish or not.

Listen, I really don't feel the need to prove my conservative credentials to you. I worked for my Republican Congressman, on Bush's campaign, on Mayor Bloomberg's campaign, attend CPAC yearly, am active in College Republicans, have met Thomas and Scalia, and am going to meet Ashcroft next Wednesday. Granted, I'm more liberal than SOME Republicans, but I think it's all based on perspective. To you, perhaps I'm a liberal. To most, I'm a conservative.

Finally, before you attack someone's ideas, you should actually understand them in their entirety. You did know from the beginning that I was referring to Medicare and social security with the term welfare, which does in fact refer to programs other than strict wealth redistribution.

But my point is that Medicare and Social Security are under no circumstances seen welfare by the vast majority of the policy community.

My plan was not only to allow private social security accounts (and raise the eligibility age to 68),

That doesn't effect the national debt. SS is its own fund.
but also to privatize half of Medicare and Medicaid by giving 150% tax deductions to people who donate to selected private charities.

First off, what do you mean by 150% tax deductions. Secondly, even if you privatize half of both of those, you're still not saving enough money because of the runaway growth of Medicare to save anything for the debt.

I would repeal Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy while eliminating unemployment insurance and those other assorted programs that you mentioned.

Repealing the tax cuts might save some money. Nowhere near enough. And you know that unemployment insurance is paid for by....unemployment insurance tax, right? So if you get rid of that, and get rid of the tax, you still have not gotten any money.

I would also withdraw slowly from Iraq and cut defense spending to pre-9/11 levels.

Okay. And ALLLLL of that combined, might cut our deficit in half. That doesn't pay back 8 trillion.

That would pay off the national debt. Drilling in the ANWR and giving tax incentives for alternative energy production, combined with short-term protectionism, would eliminate the trade deficit.

I'm going to need to see a SINGLE number out of anywhere that supports this before I believe it.

Look, go to Cato, Heritage, AEI, etc. They are think tanks that are very very sympathetic to the cuts you're proposing. But I think you'll find that they will have much more moderate effects than you think.

Honestly, I think you'd love them. Cato is libertarian, and Heritage offers you the social conservatism you desire.
 
Kelzie said:
I don't think so...he doesn't appear to be fond of meat alternatives, and that's one of the requirements to get in our club. :mrgreen:

It's flesh or nothing, dammit!
 
Actually, I am a former Catholic and I can tell you that the Catholic Church would consider that kind of language to be a mortal sin- and it would probably say the same about your avatar. If you oppose school prayer, you oppose religious expression as protected in the First Amendment. Yes, you did attack my pro-life stance. You said that abortion will not end, which is one of the most common forms of pro-abortion rhetoric. As for your "personal views", if you were a Catholic you wouldn't differ from my pro-life stance. You came into this thread, lied about your political leanings and mine, deliberately took me out of context, filled it with that avatar and your bad language and baited me meaninglessly (about the word "welfare", for example) just to irritate me. I don't know whether or not you go to confession but it wouldn't do you any harm. I consider everything that you have posted to be a very personal attack on me, including your condescending "17-year-old" remark and arrogant attitude, so you can't object to my questioning the sincerity of your faith. I don't like hypocrisy and I don't care whether it comes from a moderator or someone new to the site. If you take your job as a moderator seriously, you'll start acting more professionally.
 
Arts&Sciences said:
Actually, I am a former Catholic and I can tell you that the Catholic Church would consider that kind of language to be a mortal sin-

You think the Pope thinks the word "asshole" is a mortal sin?

and it would probably say the same about your avatar.

What, pray tell, is the problem with my avatar? You've mentioned it twice, and I'm a bit confused.

If you oppose school prayer, you oppose religious expression as protected in the First Amendment.

Absolutely untrue. It's an establishment clause issue, not a free exercise clause issue. I oppose the establishment of a state religion, which court case after court case has held that mandated school prayer violates. Any religious official worth his salt will agree.

Yes, you did attack my pro-life stance. You said that abortion will not end, which is one of the most common forms of pro-abortion rhetoric.

You asked "what do you people think about my political platform" I told you what the vast majority of people will think about your political platform. It's not my fault it's not what you wanted to hear.

As for your "personal views", if you were a Catholic you wouldn't differ from my pro-life stance.

Because all Catholics vote in lockstep? Funny, last time I recall they split about 50-50....

You came into this thread, lied about your political leanings and mine, deliberately took me out of context, filled it with that avatar and your bad language and baited me meaninglessly (about the word "welfare", for example) just to irritate me.

I came into this thread, answered your question, offered you advice and sources to put actual numbers with your ambiguous theories, and offered you some lively debate. And again, what's the problem with the avatar?

I don't know whether or not you go to confession but it wouldn't do you any harm. I consider everything that you have posted to be a very personal attack on me, including your condescending "17-year-old" remark and arrogant attitude, so you can't object to my questioning the sincerity of your faith. I don't like hypocrisy and I don't care whether it comes from a moderator or someone new to the site. If you take your job as a moderator seriously, you'll start acting more professionally.

I didn't mean any disrespect by asking if you were 17, that was simply based on the fact that I've seen numerous posts like this one before, almost invariably from high school students. Because you didn't have an age listed, I made a guess. I apologize for that whole heartedly.

However, if you want to learn how to debate, you need to not have so thin a skin. Simply disagreeing with you is not attacking you. I don't object to your questioning of my faith (which many might) because I understand a couple key things about online debating:

1) You don't know me, so nothing you say has any real basis behind it
2) I know what I am and who I am, so I'm not really bothered if you get it wrong.

If you remember those two things, you'll do well. Until then, take what you get in the spirit it's given.
 
RightatNYU said:
You're right. It just happens to be a custom that senators on both sides of the aisle think is important enough to ask about in hearings for court nominees, and is important enough that the vast majority of legal scholars consider anyone who doesn't believe in it to be outside the judicial channel.

Just a custom? The entire court is BUILT on custom. How much do you know about the day to day functionings of the Supreme Court?

The Court is built on the Constitution.

Uh....how on earth does your first point imply that?

It doesn't; it merely shows that banning soft money is Constitutional.

I'm going to settle this once and for all:



There it is for you, Artie. In the courts own words, in particularly emphatic terms.

If you want, we can have a little game. There's a court case which would offer your argument a little traction, although in the end it doesn't carry enough weight to prove your argument. If you can find it, I'll explain to you why it doesn't work.

Hint: It was in the 1980's.
The court ruled against the Constitution, for which you obviously have no respect.
Listen, I really don't feel the need to prove my conservative credentials to you. I worked for my Republican Congressman, on Bush's campaign, on Mayor Bloomberg's campaign, attend CPAC yearly, am active in College Republicans, have met Thomas and Scalia, and am going to meet Ashcroft next Wednesday. Granted, I'm more liberal than SOME Republicans, but I think it's all based on perspective. To you, perhaps I'm a liberal. To most, I'm a conservative.

I don't care who you associate with. Rudolph Giuliani manages to associate with those people as well, but he is not a conservative. Moreover, I'm not even a conservative. I object to your hypocrisy in claiming to be a conservative while attacking me for being a moral conservative.

But my point is that Medicare and Social Security are under no circumstances seen welfare by the vast majority of the policy community.



That doesn't effect the national debt. SS is its own fund.

If the federal government is paying for it, and social security is in trouble, it does affect the national debt.

First off, what do you mean by 150% tax deductions. Secondly, even if you privatize half of both of those, you're still not saving enough money because of the runaway growth of Medicare to save anything for the debt.

Private charities are more efficient. In my system, if I gave $100 to a private charity that provided medical services, I would receive $150. Hence Medicare and Medicaid would be fully privatized, but subsidized by the government.
Repealing the tax cuts might save some money. Nowhere near enough. And you know that unemployment insurance is paid for by....unemployment insurance tax, right? So if you get rid of that, and get rid of the tax, you still have not gotten any money.

I would build surpluses that would add up to pay off the debt.
Okay. And ALLLLL of that combined, might cut our deficit in half. That doesn't pay back 8 trillion.

My answer here is the same as the last.
I'm going to need to see a SINGLE number out of anywhere that supports this before I believe it.

Look, go to Cato, Heritage, AEI, etc. They are think tanks that are very very sympathetic to the cuts you're proposing. But I think you'll find that they will have much more moderate effects than you think.

Honestly, I think you'd love them. Cato is libertarian, and Heritage offers you the social conservatism you desire.

For you, I'd recommend the ACLU so long as you stayed away from any references to the Patriot Act.
Once again, I have been on many political forums, but I have never seen anything so absurd.
 
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Side note: when you respond to posts, please watch your formatting. quote each portion you're referring to individually to avoid the block quotes, which cannot be responded to.
 
Arts&Sciences said:
The Court is built on the Constitution.

Right. So show me the clause that bans stare decisis.

The court ruled against the Constitution, for which you obviously have no respect.

Right. It's much more likely that a court of the 9 smartest legal minds unanimously ruled against the constitution, and that decision has been wrongly upheld by dozens of other justices, than it is that you simply don't understand the constitution.

I don't care who you associate with. Rudolph Giuliani manages to associate with those people as well, but he is not a conservative. Moreover, I'm not even a conservative. I object to your hypocrisy in claiming to be a conservative while attacking me for being a moral conservative.

Where did I attack you? And I'm getting more confused. You're not a conservative. You think you're a moderate?

If the federal government is paying for it, and social security is in trouble, it does affect the national debt.

The federal government is NOT paying for SS. You clearly don't understand how SS works. Right now, there is a roughly 2.1 Trillion dollar surplus in the SS fund. SS is not costing the govt anything, as the program is pay-as-you-go, and is entirely funded by current contributions.

Private charities are more efficient. In my system, if I gave $100 to a private charity that provided medical services, I would receive $150. Hence Medicare and Medicaid would be fully privatized, but subsidized by the government.

This makes absolutely no sense. Say that after working all year, I make 200,000. I owe the govt 50,000 in taxes. Instead of paying taxes, I give that 50,000 to the red cross. Now the govt owes me 75,000. Everyone would do that exact same thing. So now you have 0 dollars in tax receipts, and 2.4 trillion dollars in outlays to the public as reimbursements. That is completely and utterly ludicris.

I would build surpluses that would add up to pay off the debt.

No, actually you'd accumulate 2.4 trillion in debt per year.

My answer here is the same as the last.

The same faulty one?

For you, I'd recommend the ACLU so long as you stayed away from any references to the Patriot Act.
Once again, I have been on many political forums, but I have never seen anything so absurd.

Well, the ACLU isn't a think tank, but it was a nice shot.

And honestly, if you have never seen anything as absurd as a moderate Conservative, you need to get out more.
 
RightatNYU said:
You think the Pope thinks the word "asshole" is a mortal sin?

I've read examinations of conscience, NYU. You would have to confess it- or else.

What, pray tell, is the problem with my avatar? You've mentioned it twice, and I'm a bit confused.

I looked closely at your avatar because I embarrassed myself by referring to you as a woman. I think you know the answer.
Absolutely untrue. It's an establishment clause issue, not a free exercise clause issue. I oppose the establishment of a state religion, which court case after court case has held that mandated school prayer violates. Any religious official worth his salt will agree.

That is false. If religious expression is banned, it is a violation of the First Amendment.

You asked "what do you people think about my political platform" I told you what the vast majority of people will think about your political platform. It's not my fault it's not what you wanted to hear.

No, you said that the majority of people never would be pro-life no matter what, which is a stealth pro-abortion argument.
Because all Catholics vote in lockstep? Funny, last time I recall they split about 50-50....

If you are actually a Catholic- not simply by heritage- but by faith, you are pro-life.
I came into this thread, answered your question, offered you advice and sources to put actual numbers with your ambiguous theories, and offered you some lively debate. And again, what's the problem with the avatar?

No, you claimed to be a conservative while attacking my moral conservatism, took quotes of mine out of context and lied about my fiscal plan from the beginning. There is nothing "vague" about my ideas.

I didn't mean any disrespect by asking if you were 17, that was simply based on the fact that I've seen numerous posts like this one before, almost invariably from high school students. Because you didn't have an age listed, I made a guess. I apologize for that whole heartedly.

However, if you want to learn how to debate, you need to not have so thin a skin. Simply disagreeing with you is not attacking you. I don't object to your questioning of my faith (which many might) because I understand a couple key things about online debating:

1) You don't know me, so nothing you say has any real basis behind it
2) I know what I am and who I am, so I'm not really bothered if you get it wrong.

If you remember those two things, you'll do well. Until then, take what you get in the spirit it's given.

I have been cursed out and abused on many forums. That you are arrogant goes without saying. I have dealt with such arrogance before. My problem with you is your constant deceit and hypocrisy. I take everything that I get from you in the spirit in which it is intended- which is why you anger me more than anyone on any forum (even radical feminists) ever has.
Of course, I have met other dishonest moderators before, but you top them all.
 
Arts&Sciences said:
I've read examinations of conscience, NYU. You would have to confess it- or else.

That's an interesting interpretation of events...

I looked closely at your avatar because I embarrassed myself by referring to you as a woman. I think you know the answer.

What? I'm so confused as to how my avatar is offending you. Why did looking closely at it cause a problem?

That is false. If religious expression is banned, it is a violation of the First Amendment.

There's really no point in arguing this with you, it doesn't appear that either one of us is going to win the other over on this point. According to one of my professors who has a PhD in religion and was the co-editor of the Harvard Law Review with John Roberts, who while clerking for Chief Justice Burger quite literally wrote the definition of "religion" that the court uses, you are wrong.

No, you said that the majority of people never would be pro-life no matter what, which is a stealth pro-abortion argument.

Right. It's part of my secret agenda to destroy all fetii.


If you are actually a Catholic- not simply by heritage- but by faith, you are pro-life.

That's a legitimate debate, for another time and place.


No, you claimed to be a conservative while attacking my moral conservatism, took quotes of mine out of context and lied about my fiscal plan from the beginning. There is nothing "vague" about my ideas.

I have never attacked your moral conservatism. If you feel I have, I'd like to see where. And I don't know how you can claim there's nothing vague about your program when you have offered exactly zero sources and zero numbers to back any of it up.

I have been cursed out and abused on many forums. That you are arrogant goes without saying. I have dealt with such arrogance before. My problem with you is your constant deceit and hypocrisy. I take everything that I get from you in the spirit in which it is intended- which is why you anger me more than anyone on any forum (even radical feminists) ever has.Of course, I have met other dishonest moderators before, but you top them all.

I'm sorry that you feel that I am cursing out or abusing you. I don't think you have anything to back that up with, but to each their own. And if I'm angering you than anyone on any forum ever has, then I think you need to ask yourself why.

Aside from that, I'm still confused as to the "deceit" I'm perpetrating on you. Do you think I created a user and amassed 2200 posts over 8 months all to pretend to be conservative in the hopes that you'd come here one day so I could attack you?
 
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