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My Opinion - Mexico Has No Right to be Angry

danarhea

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In case anyone has been living in a cave and hasnt heard about it, Vincente Fox and the Mexican government is really PO'd about the immigration bill that passed the House which:

1) Calls for a wall to be put up on the US border. This is something Pat Buchanan called for in 2000, and one of the reasons I voted for him. Buchanan was unfairly called a rascist for it, but the times they are a changin'.

2) Makes illegal immigration a felony, punishable by jail time before the offender is sent back ACROSS THE WALL to where he or she belongs.

Bleeding heart Democrat Liberals, as well as Republican Neocons, have been way too easy on illegal immigration, and now the people have spoken through their representatives. It is about time we had an immigration bill that had some teeth in it.

If I were president, this is how I would respond to Vincente Fox:

1) Illegal immigration has always been against the law here in the US. Since you dont want to take steps to stop it on your side, we are going to take those steps for you.

2) Now you will have no excuse for encouraging your criminals to emmigrate here and bring their lawlessness with them. Its your problem now, so YOU build the prisons. We are no longer going to subsidize your lack of action.

3) Since you have done nada to intercept terrorists who might be looking to come here and start trouble, we are now taking that pesky little responsibility out of your hands. The wall is going up, and if anyone attempting to cross is armed or carrying explosives, our troops manning the wall will simply blow his ass to kingdom come.

4) Finally, if you dont like it, then go take a flying leap. I am sick to death of all your excuses. Now you no longer will have any excuses to make. We are taking it all out of your hands. Say thank you.
 

JOHNYJ

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I say if they want to be mad at u s, lets give them a real reason. Close the border just shut it for say 2 weeks.At the same time Ban the transfer of funds from the USA to Mexico, for a month.
Its time we got tough with Mexico.
 

M14 Shooter

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You got it, meng.

I cannot imagine why anyone would disagree with those things.
 

MSgt

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M14 Shooter said:
You got it, meng.

I cannot imagine why anyone would disagree with those things.

I would disagree. I'll be damned if I'm going to pick my own fruit.
 

SouthernDemocrat

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The only people against that legislation are the non-pro labor Democrats who believe that they would loose the Hispanic vote if they support it, and the cheap labor Republicans who want to make sure their contributors have plenty of cheap illegal labor to exploit.

However, this has the support of the vast majority of Americans. I can see why anyone would want to come this country. I always have considered myself very fortunate to have beaten the 50 to 1 odds and having been born an American. Furthermore, the majority of those who come into this country illegally come here to work, and in many cases they work jobs that few people would.

That all said, there is a legal channel that you go though to come to this country and to work in this country. What is the point of even having a border if millions disregard it every year? All that Mexico is pissed off about is the fact that illegal immigration is that countries biggest industry and that is exactly why we need a wall and in my opinion, they cant build it too high.
 

aps

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danarhea said:
In case anyone has been living in a cave and hasnt heard about it, Vincente Fox and the Mexican government is really PO'd about the immigration bill that passed the House which:

1) Calls for a wall to be put up on the US border. This is something Pat Buchanan called for in 2000, and one of the reasons I voted for him. Buchanan was unfairly called a rascist for it, but the times they are a changin'.
Nah, he's not a racist:

In a 1977 column, Buchanan wrote,

"Though Hitler was indeed racist and anti-Semitic to the core, a man who without compunction could commit murder and genocide, he was also an individual of great courage, a soldier's soldier in the Great War, a political organizer of the first rank, a leader steeped in the history of Europe, who possessed oratorical powers that could awe even those who despised him...Hitler's success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Bu..._Hitler.2C_the_Holocaust.2C_and_accused_Nazis

What kind of a$$hole praises Hitler?
 

jallman

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I think this has been too long coming. I am an extremely open-minded and tolerant person within reason. However, I find it kinda disturbing that English is becoming a secondary language in the southwest, that I almost have to know spanish to order a hamburger when I go down to the lower 48, and that Cico De Mayo is being celebrated almost as widely as our own Independence Day. That doesnt even touch on the economic impacts with illegal aliens claiming social assistance programs, jailing lawless riffraff that dont belong here anyway, and the loss of taxation when these illegals take jobs working under the table. Consider how much the IRS spends every year just trying to sort out duplicate social security numbers that are used by whole nests of illegals. Yes, the workers provide valuable labor doing things that most people wont do...but they need to come here with documentation, an interest in American culture and history, and a willingness to assimilate into our society. They are not above immigration laws.
 

cnredd

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aps said:
Nah, he's not a racist:

In a 1977 column, Buchanan wrote,

"Though Hitler was indeed racist and anti-Semitic to the core, a man who without compunction could commit murder and genocide, he was also an individual of great courage, a soldier's soldier in the Great War, a political organizer of the first rank, a leader steeped in the history of Europe, who possessed oratorical powers that could awe even those who despised him...Hitler's success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Bu..._Hitler.2C_the_Holocaust.2C_and_accused_Nazis

What kind of a$$hole praises Hitler?
You're taking it way out of context...PB is refering to HOW Hitler conducted things and not WHY they were conducted...

I throw this out to see if it gets through...

Was the Unibomber a very smart man?...Jim Jones?...David Koresh?...

Was the 911 plot conducted to near perfection with patience and well-thought out plans?...

Yes to every one...The intentions of these people are rediculous, but the results of their actions are impressive nonetheless, even if it's in the most negative way...

If you never knew of a man named Hitler, and I told you the story of one man who was in prison because of his beliefs, got out, transformed the whole government of a nation, built up a national self-interest, transformed the military into a virtual machine, and gained so much power that he almost took over all of Europe, you can't sit there and tell me you'd think that guy was an idiot...

These were the only aspects Pat was referring to...
 

SouthernDemocrat

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We are one of the few nations on earth that does not have a national language so the fact that Spanish is being spoken more than English is some areas is irrelevant in terms of national policy.

The problems that illegal immigration presents are:

1. National Security issues. If the boarders are so open that an illegal can walk across them in search of work, then they provide little impediment to a terrorist who would come to commit violence on our soil.

2. Social Spending issues. Illegal immigration is a huge burden on many social programs and safety nets.

3. Environmental issues. The overpopulation that is in many ways fueled by illegal immigration is the greatest single threat to our environment and the preservation of our wildlands.
 

aps

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cnredd said:
You're taking it way out of context...PB is refering to HOW Hitler conducted things and not WHY they were conducted...

I throw this out to see if it gets through...

Was the Unibomber a very smart man?...Jim Jones?...David Koresh?...

Was the 911 plot conducted to near perfection with patience and well-thought out plans?...

Yes to every one...The intentions of these people are rediculous, but the results of their actions are impressive nonetheless, even if it's in the most negative way...

If you never knew of a man named Hitler, and I told you the story of one man who was in prison because of his beliefs, got out, transformed the whole government of a nation, built up a national self-interest, transformed the military into a virtual machine, and gained so much power that he almost took over all of Europe, you can't sit there and tell me you'd think that guy was an idiot...

These were the only aspects Pat was referring to...
I do see your point. My husband is Jewish and hates Buchanan because of other anti-Semitic statements he has made. My husband is not one of those types who believes everyone is anti-Semitic, and he is a very rational person (far more rational than I am) in that he wouldn't make that conclusion if there wasn't justification for it.
 

cnredd

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aps said:
I do see your point. My husband is Jewish and hates Buchanan because of other anti-Semitic statements he has made. My husband is not one of those types who believes everyone is anti-Semitic, and he is a very rational person (far more rational than I am) in that he wouldn't make that conclusion if there wasn't justification for it.
There may be many examples of racism on PB's part...I don't know...

My conclusion is not that PB is or is not a racist...he very well may be...

I'm just saying that the example you gave wasn't a good indicator...

Back on topic - Build the wall...
 

aps

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cnredd said:
There may be many examples of racism on PB's part...I don't know...

My conclusion is not that PB is or is not a racist...he very well may be...

I'm just saying that the example you gave wasn't a good indicator...

Back on topic - Build the wall...
Ahh, I totally agree. Look, I had to find something fast.....;)

My mother is Mexican, and I have dual citizenship with Mexico. However, I fully support the building of this wall. I believe, however, my mother does not. My brother fully supports this and apparently offended our mother when he made comments about the wall......:shock:
 

Deegan

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aps said:
Ahh, I totally agree. Look, I had to find something fast.....;)

My mother is Mexican, and I have dual citizenship with Mexico. However, I fully support the building of this wall. I believe, however, my mother does not. My brother fully supports this and apparently offended our mother when he made comments about the wall......:shock:
I believe you, I have been trying to tell Dan how anti-Semitic Pat is for years now, he refuses to connect the dots. I have been raised around anti-Semites for years, I know what it looks like, smells like, and can see it in the eyes of the hater.
 

aps

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Deegan said:
I believe you, I have been trying to tell Dan how anti-Semitic Pat is for years now, he refuses to connect the dots. I have been raised around anti-Semites for years, I know what it looks like, smells like, and can see it in the eyes of the hater.
Does Dan = cnredd? Thanks for backing me up, Deegan. :cool: I wouldn't want people thinking that my husband is one of those people who thinks everyone is against him. (He went to Brandeis--same as Abramoff :shock:)
 

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aps said:
Does Dan = cnredd? Thanks for backing me up, Deegan. :cool: I wouldn't want people thinking that my husband is one of those people who thinks everyone is against him. (He went to Brandeis--same as Abramoff :shock:)
danarhea=Dan...

cnredd=redheaded love machine...
 

aps

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cnredd said:
danarhea=Dan...

cnredd=redheaded love machine...
LOL! Gotcha! Somehow you didn't strike me as a "Dan" from your pictures.
 

cnredd

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aps said:
LOL! Gotcha! Somehow you didn't strike me as a "Dan" from your pictures.
If I told you my real name, I wouldn't strike you as that one either...It's the most horrible name ever given to man, and I firmly believe that my parents were drunk and in a very bad mood when they named me...:(

I'm actually the "3rd", not counting middle names...I could have 30 sons, and there will NOT be "a 4th"...
 

danarhea

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Uh oh. Time for me to defend myself. Why does the fact that one is against Zionism equate with being anti Semitic? Would you call this group anti Semetic? How about this group? Or this group? All 3 groups are Jewish. Would you make the claim that they hate themselves? Of course not. Just because one is against Zionism doesnt make him anti Semetic, and the hints from some here that I may be anti Semitic are unfair, dont you think? By the way, my stepfather's last name was Weinrick. Yes, he was Jewish, and I loved him. By the same token, Buchanan doesnt hate Jewish people - He just doesnt like the notion that Zionism should inflence our politics so much, and the information coming out of the AIPAC scandal pretty much confirms that.
 

aps

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danarhea said:
Uh oh. Time for me to defend myself. Why does the fact that one is against Zionism equate with being anti Semitic? Would you call this group anti Semetic? How about this group? Or this group? All 3 groups are Jewish. Would you make the claim that they hate themselves? Of course not. Just because one is against Zionism doesnt make him anti Semetic, and the hints from some here that I may be anti Semitic are unfair, dont you think? By the way, my stepfather's last name was Weinrick. Yes, he was Jewish, and I loved him. By the same token, Buchanan doesnt hate Jewish people - He just doesnt like the notion that Zionism should inflence our politics so much, and the information coming out of the AIPAC scandal pretty much confirms that.
danarhea, no one is calling you anti Semitic. I don't believe the bases of my husband thinking Buchanan is anti Semitic are solely based on him not liking Zionism. Just FYI.
 

aps

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cnredd said:
If I told you my real name, I wouldn't strike you as that one either...It's the most horrible name ever given to man, and I firmly believe that my parents were drunk and in a very bad mood when they named me...:(

I'm actually the "3rd", not counting middle names...I could have 30 sons, and there will NOT be "a 4th"...
cnredd, Long Dong Silver is a fine name. Come on.....;)
 

danarhea

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aps said:
danarhea, no one is calling you anti Semitic. I don't believe the bases of my husband thinking Buchanan is anti Semitic are solely based on him not liking Zionism. Just FYI.
Thats a fair enough response. Then how does not liking Zionism equate to rascism? That is actually the crux of my argument.
 

aps

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danarhea said:
Thats a fair enough response. Then how does not liking Zionism equate to rascism? That is actually the crux of my argument.
I should rephrase that--I don't even know if that is the reason he believes Buchanan is a racist. If you're interested, I will ask him.
 

danarhea

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aps said:
I should rephrase that--I don't even know if that is the reason he believes Buchanan is a racist. If you're interested, I will ask him.
Actually I was asking you:

aps said:
Nah, he's not a racist:

In a 1977 column, Buchanan wrote,


"Though Hitler was indeed racist and anti-Semitic to the core, a man who without compunction could commit murder and genocide, he was also an individual of great courage, a soldier's soldier in the Great War, a political organizer of the first rank, a leader steeped in the history of Europe, who possessed oratorical powers that could awe even those who despised him...Hitler's success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Buc..._accused_Nazis

What kind of a$$hole praises Hitler?
The accusation that Buchanan was rascist came from you. I am not trying to be a butthead here (well, maybe I am - LOL), and you and I have had some good discussion here, but your post does seem to imply rascism.
 

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danarhea said:
Thats a fair enough response. Then how does not liking Zionism equate to rascism? That is actually the crux of my argument.
Okay...well I typically stay as far away as possible from these conversations because whenever I open my trap I get accused of being anti semetic and I absolutely am not. I am, however, strongly anti zionist. I feel that Israel shouuld not influence our politics so much and I also have a twinkling idea that Israel should not even be an issue at all. But do I have a hatred for Jews...well no, not at all...not in the least. Do I feel that there is a global double standard in how Israel gets to respond to situations and how the rest of the world does? Absolutely.
 

danarhea

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jallman said:
Okay...well I typically stay as far away as possible from these conversations because whenever I open my trap I get accused of being anti semetic and I absolutely am not. I am, however, strongly anti zionist. I feel that Israel shouuld not influence our politics so much and I also have a twinkling idea that Israel should not even be an issue at all. But do I have a hatred for Jews...well no, not at all...not in the least. Do I feel that there is a global double standard in how Israel gets to respond to situations and how the rest of the world does? Absolutely.
Exactly, and that fits me to a tee also. That is also Buchanan's position.
 
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