"My Name Used to Be #200343"

[danarhea]

He was kidnapped, imprisoned for 3 months, and subjected to harsh psychological torture, including food deprivation. His crime? He was accused of working for an Iraqi company which supported terrorism.

The reality? He was an FBI undercover informer, who was giving the FBI regular reports on their activities. His interrogators were not impressed, although they only needed to make a single phone call to confirm this fact.

A little more reality? This company was also being funded by US contracts, with the blessing of the Department of Defense.

Even more reality? Donald Vance, the man who is the subject of this thread, is a Navy veteran, and voted for George Bush twice.

Today's reality? He is suing the Department of Defense, along with Donald Rumsfeld, for false imprisonment and torture. He did take a little time out from his lawsuit, though, to accept the Ridenhour prize from the National Press Club. This prize was named after the helicopter pilot who risked all to bring the story of the Mai Lai massacre to the world, which ended with the conviction of Lt. William Calley for ordering the slaughter of the residents of that Vietnamese village.

Article is here.

 

[Binary_Digit]

I thought if you're not a terrorist you have nothing to worry about. Whatever happened to that? This literally makes me sick and I want heads to roll.

 

[Iriemon]

I thought if you're not a terrorist you have nothing to worry about. Whatever happened to that? This literally makes me sick and I want heads to roll.

They'll say it is an aberration, one bad apple, US atty-gen'l Gonzalez will issue a statement that will say the US Govt acted legally and consititutionally give the information it had, and they'll sweep it under the rug.

But what rights have *you* lost?

 

[Travelsonic]

I thought if you're not a terrorist you have nothing to worry about.

Proves that this argument is BS I guess.

 

[Skip]

Holy ****, this is messed up. What the hell is going on at the Pentagon and White House? I want answers now!


Needless to say, I'll never get them.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Where are all the torture mongers to defend this bullshit? Navy Pride, aquapub, Gysgt, ToT, you were all so quick to trust the government not to abuse their Bush-given power, but look at this thread, it has bitten one of our own citizens right in the ***! What do you have to say about this??

Hey if it can stop another 9/11/01 terrorist attack by torturing some of the scum at GITMO then I am all for it..........

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/2674-bush-approves-use-torture-2.html

Bush approves of actually fighting our enemies. I know to liberals that seems like "destroying everything this country stood for," but Bill Clinton's eight-year non-response to Al Queda and Jimmy Carter's devastating, "kiss their *** until they break" strategy just don't cut it in a 9/11 world, so we will continue to use INTERNATIONALLY PRECEDENTED AND ACCEPTED INTERROGATION PRACTICES whether the unemployed (thank God) Democrats want to cry for our enemies (as always) from the sidelines or not.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/2674-bush-approves-use-torture-5.html

I tire of this subject. The Global Left continues to reach lower levels of depravity in their quest to create a nonesense politically correct world. We could close down Gitmo and put all the prisoners at the Hilton and we would be accused of abuse and torture because they smelled bacon at breakfast.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/18721-ill-treatment-may-traumatic-torture.html

So are we supposed to lavish the poor terrorists with hugs and kisses, change their diapers, wipe the dribble away from their bubblin' lips, and rub Vaseline all over their heinie's and tell them that they're special and different from everyone else's?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...eatment-may-traumatic-torture.html#post505903

They're not uniformed soldiers and therfor they are not entitled to the rights under the Geneva convention.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/5557-real-cia-leak.html

Yep according to the Al-Qaeda Bill of Rights . . . . I mean the McCain torture Bill boot camp is now considered as torture let's hope the libs get around to stopping this right away just as soon as their done tying the hands of our military from winning the war on terror.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...ndred-torture-camps-found-right-here-u-s.html

 

[Befuddled_Stoner]

And this is surprising? Back in '04, I was already aware of what my vote meant.

 

[RightOfCenter]

This is absolutely disgusting.

 

[Doremus Jessup]

I'm f@ckin' speechless.

 

[RightinNYC]

Does this guy have anything to support his claims other than his own account? There are a lot of things about this story that sound a bit off...

Vance claims that during the months leading up to his arrest, he worked as an unpaid informant for the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Has the FBI acknowledged this, or does he have any corroborating evidence?

Instead, his jailers insisted that Vance and Ertel had been detained and imprisoned because the two worked for Shield Group Security where large caches of weapons have been found -- weapons that may have been intended for possible distribution to insurgents and terrorist groups, Vance said.

This sounds a bit more plausible...whether or not the guy's story about the FBI is true, if the company where he works was involved in smuggling arms to insurgents, its not at all a big leap to claim that he was involved somehow. Of course, he's not going to admit to such a thing when he's got a fat lawsuit pending.

Because he worked with the FBI, Vance contends, U.S. government officials in Iraq decided to retaliate against him and Ertel. He believes these officials conspired to jail the two not because they worked for a security company suspected of selling weapons to insurgents, but because they were sharing information with law enforcement agents outside the control of U.S. officials in Baghdad.

"In other words," claims the lawsuit, "United States officials in Iraq were concerned and wanted to find out about what intelligence agents in the United States knew about their territory and their operations.

Does he have any evidence to support this assertion, or is it just his own interpretation of events?



It's a crappy story if true, but I don't put much faith in something claimed by one guy with absolutely no corroborating evidence.

 

[Gibberish]

It's a crappy story if true, but I don't put much faith in something claimed by one guy with absolutely no corroborating evidence.

My thoughts too. I don't put much stock in what single sources say, especially when that source is seeking financial gain from the situation.

Hopefully the truth will be visible in court, one way or the other.

 

[RightinNYC]

My thoughts too. I don't put much stock in what single sources say, especially when that source is seeking financial gain from the situation.

And when said source immediately goes to the media, becomes the darling of the opposition group, and receives plaudits and awards.

 

[Iriemon]

And when said source immediately goes to the media, becomes the darling of the opposition group, and receives plaudits and awards.

Did the Govt deny the claims?

The problem is, with no way to challenge or appeal your status on such lists, there is no way to disprove it either. This is not the first time I've read of this happening.

 

[RightinNYC]

Did the Govt deny the claims?

The problem is, with no way to challenge or appeal your status on such lists, there is no way to disprove it either. This is not the first time I've read of this happening.

Because the incident and allegations are now in litigation, the Pentagon has no comment, spokesman Army Lieut. Col. Mark Ballesteros said. He referred all inquires to the U.S. Justice Department, which also had no comment for similar reasons.

Standard procedure.

 

[Iriemon]

Standard procedure.

No doubt.

.....

 

[RightinNYC]

No doubt.

.....

Well, what did you expect? It's the government. Like any large org. (or for that matter, anyone with a competent lawyer), questions about a pending lawsuit are ignored. Doesn't mean its true, and I'll need more than one guys word.

 

[Willow]

Actually three months is not a long time to be imprisoned, it probably took that long to confirm his story.
The reality is that every single person who is imprisoned is claiming to be "someone". It takes time to get through all the red tape, obtain documents and validate or invalidate their story.
This guy was portraying himself as the person they thought they had arrested. I don't know why he's surprised that people thought he was who he said he was.

The problem is, with no way to challenge or appeal your status on such lists, there is no way to disprove it either. This is not the first time I've read of this happening.

True enough but this guy was released quite quickly, I'm sure it wasn't fun for him but he should have known working for the FBI, and portraying himself as the individual he was portraying himself as was a dangerous assignment. HE did not have to take this assignment. HE would have known of the risks. Quite frankly I think he should be pleased that his cover was so good, they took him seriously. If it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck then it is a duck..

 

[RightinNYC]

After just a little poking around, here's a couple apparent holes in his story:

Claim in this article:

He was held without charge for more than three months in a high-security prison in Iraq, and interrogated daily after sleepless nights without legal counsel or even a phone call to his family.

Other article:

Two weeks into his detention, he was allowed to phone his fiancee in Chicago, who had already informed her Congressional representative of his apparent disappearance. He wrote ten letters home, one of which arrived in November 2006 dated 17 July.

Which is it? Sounds like kind of a big difference.


Pentagon Comment:

A spokeswoman for the Pentagon's detention operations in Iraq, First Lt. Lea Ann Fracasso, said in written answers to questions that the men had been ''treated fair and humanely,'' and that there was no record of either man complaining about their treatment.


She said officials did not reach Mr. Vance's contact at the F.B.I. until he had been in custody for three weeks. Even so, she said, officials determined that he ''posed a threat'' and decided to continue holding him. He was released two months later, Lieutenant Fracasso said, based on a ''subsequent re-examination of his case,'' and his stated plans to leave Iraq.

And it sounds like there's more to the story than he claims:

On June 17, Lt. Col. Keir-Kevin Curry, a spokesman for the American military's detention unit, Task Force 134, wrote to tell Ms. Schwarz that Mr. Vance was still being held. ''The detainee board reviewed his case and recommended he remain interned,'' he wrote. ''Multi-National Force-Iraq approved the board's recommendation to continue internment. Therefore, Mr. Vance continues to be a security detainee. We are not processing him for release.

And, of course,

He is currently working on a book about his experiences in Iraq.

 

[Iriemon]

Well, what did you expect? It's the government. Like any large org. (or for that matter, anyone with a competent lawyer), questions about a pending lawsuit are ignored. Doesn't mean its true, and I'll need more than one guys word.

The Govt is like any large org except the Govt has far more power. Which is 1) a good reason to be wary of that power 2) have checks against that power.

But you knew that.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Where are all the torture mongers to defend this bullshit? Navy Pride, aquapub, Gysgt, ToT, you were all so quick to trust the government not to abuse their Bush-given power, but look at this thread, it has bitten one of our own citizens right in the ***! What do you have to say about this??

lmfao what abuses? The only thing that was mentioned in the article is food deprivation, aww did he go to bwed hungwy? Woopedy ****.

 

[Binary_Digit]

lmfao what abuses? The only thing that was mentioned in the article is food deprivation, aww did he go to bwed hungwy? Woopedy ****.

1. You're talking about a U.S. citizen who literally risked his neck for our country, I think a little more respect is in order. If you had ever served in the military you'd understand how much it sucks being held in a shitty situation against your will and how long 3 months can be.

2. Food deprivation, water deprivation, sleep deprivation, these are all forms of torture as defined by the UNCAT and the Geneva Convention articles. I know you don't agree with those definitions, but attitudes like yours are the very reason we need them.

3. I said abuse of power. Team Bush has taken it upon themselves to deny basic human rights to people when they don't even know if they are enemies or not, much less "enemy combatants." You like to tout the "innocent until proven guilty" slogan whenever Republicans are under attack, but you conveniently forget about it when it suits your opinions.

4. This is one of the many reasons why government should not be trusted to selectively deny justice to certain people, U.S. citizen or not, because it's only a matter of time before it happens to innocent people as well. Here we have a U.S. citizen who was made the victim of a reckless and irresponsible policy that indiscriminately sweeps everyone under the same rug, and all you can say is "whoopedy ****". Some "American" attitude that is.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

1. You're talking about a U.S. citizen who literally risked his neck for our country, I think a little more respect is in order. If you had ever served in the military you'd understand how much it sucks being held in a shitty situation against your will and how long 3 months can be.

2. Food deprivation, water deprivation, sleep deprivation, these are all forms of torture as defined by the UNCAT and the Geneva Convention articles. I know you don't agree with those definitions, but attitudes like yours are the very reason we need them.

3. I said abuse of power. Team Bush has taken it upon themselves to deny basic human rights to people when they don't even know if they are enemies or not, much less "enemy combatants." You like to tout the "innocent until proven guilty" slogan whenever Republicans are under attack, but you conveniently forget about it when it suits your opinions.

4. This is one of the many reasons why government should not be trusted to selectively deny justice to certain people, U.S. citizen or not, because it's only a matter of time before it happens to innocent people as well. Here we have a U.S. citizen who was made the victim of a reckless and irresponsible policy that indiscriminately sweeps everyone under the same rug, and all you can say is "whoopedy ****". Some "American" attitude that is.

As has been pointed out there are holes in this guys story and no one but him corrobarates said story.

 

[Binary_Digit]

As has been pointed out there are holes in this guys story and no one but him corrobarates said story.

Well if he's not telling the truth then the whole thing is pointless, but if he is then my points still stand.

 

[RightinNYC]

The Govt is like any large org except the Govt has far more power. Which is 1) a good reason to be wary of that power 2) have checks against that power.

But you knew that.

I'm not talking about whether the gov't should or shouldn't be able to do anything in that above statement, I'm just pointing out that "No comment" is a pretty standard response when the question touches on pending litigation, and that people should refrain from taking that as an admission of guilt.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Actually three months is not a long time to be imprisoned, it probably took that long to confirm his story.
The reality is that every single person who is imprisoned is claiming to be "someone". It takes time to get through all the red tape, obtain documents and validate or invalidate their story.
This guy was portraying himself as the person they thought they had arrested. I don't know why he's surprised that people thought he was who he said he was.

True enough but this guy was released quite quickly, I'm sure it wasn't fun for him but he should have known working for the FBI, and portraying himself as the individual he was portraying himself as was a dangerous assignment. HE did not have to take this assignment. HE would have known of the risks. Quite frankly I think he should be pleased that his cover was so good, they took him seriously. If it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck then it is a duck..

How come you're not commenting re his being tortured? False imprisonment is really bad but TORTURING anyone and especially an American is grotesque and beyond defensible.

I also disagree with your premise that he was released "quickly." He's an American and all anyone had to do was contact the FBI.

I am disturbed by people who can justify torture and abuse of power and authority.