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My, my, my. So is the EU a good thing or a bad thing?

CaughtInThe

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Anyone have a change of heart?
 

Lovebug

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CaughtInThe

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Oh? Are you referring to the brexit discussion? I am trying to understand your concerns.
i bet now one is trying to exit now.
 

Sweden

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Why wouldn't it be?
Because the profoundly anti-democratic EU's claims to be a state or, worse still, a nation are entirely false. The peoples of actual nations should make their own laws and govern themselves. Ceding power to inefficient and often corrupt bureaucrats in Brussels is a disastrous mistake.
 

Lovebug

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Because the profoundly anti-democratic EU's claims to be a state or, worse still, a nation are entirely false. The peoples of actual nations should make their own laws and govern themselves. Ceding power to inefficient and often corrupt bureaucrats in Brussels is a disastrous mistake.
As we have state laws.
 

Lovebug

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In which case do not pronounce on the EU about which you know so little.
Opinions, we are entitled to our opinions. You have a blessed day.
 

ataraxia

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Because the profoundly anti-democratic EU's claims to be a state or, worse still, a nation are entirely false. The peoples of actual nations should make their own laws and govern themselves. Ceding power to inefficient and often corrupt bureaucrats in Brussels is a disastrous mistake.

There’s always some need to give up freedoms to live in a stable society: whether it’s an individual giving up freedoms to live in a family, a family giving up some freedoms to live in a neighborhood, a neighborhood giving up some freedoms to live in a city, a city giving up some freedoms to live in a country, or a country giving up some freedoms to live on a peaceful planet.

This idea that individual freedoms Trump everything is what leads to such toxic mindsets that they people think they have the freedom to not wear a mask in a deadly pandemic and endanger others’ lives and health, or that they have the freedom to overturn democratic elections if they don’t like the results.

It’s an extremely toxic view of personal freedom, and seems to be more of a mask for malignant narcissism. That is not the kind of freedom this country was founded on.
 

CaughtInThe

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In which case do not pronounce on the EU about which you know so little.
i wonder how many countries are gonna jump into the EU so save themselves from being invaded.
 

Manc Skipper

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Pretty gradual as Brexit reality dawned, "Project Fear" wasn't only correct after all, it underestimated the damage. Not being able to visit your holiday home in Europe more than 90 days a year, discovering that removing freedom of movement applied to you too! Higher prices in the shops, with some goods intermittently missing. Getting poorer while the very rich moved their money offshore having made billion shorting our currency.... The list goes on and on.
 

Sweden

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i wonder how many countries are gonna jump into the EU so save themselves from being invaded.
To protect themselves they should jump into NATO not the EU. The latter is not and never has been a mutual defense alliance.
 

Sweden

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There’s always some need to give up freedoms to live in a stable society: whether it’s an individual giving up freedoms to live in a family, a family giving up some freedoms to live in a neighborhood, a neighborhood giving up some freedoms to live in a city, a city giving up some freedoms to live in a country, or a country giving up some freedoms to live on a peaceful planet.

This idea that individual freedoms Trump everything is what leads to such toxic mindsets that they people think they have the freedom to not wear a mask in a deadly pandemic and endanger others’ lives and health, or that they have the freedom to overturn democratic elections if they don’t like the results.

It’s an extremely toxic view of personal freedom, and seems to be more of a mask for malignant narcissism. That is not the kind of freedom this country was founded on.
I disagree. But in any case it is national freedom not personal freedom I am talking about. (I find it surprising tat you appear to think that the US War of Independence was a mistake. Perhaps the British Colonies should have remained British in the "interests of living on a peaceful planet"?).
 

CaughtInThe

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To protect themselves they should jump into NATO not the EU. The latter is not and never has been a mutual defense alliance.
I still wonder how many countries are going to try to jump into the EU now.. I bet it will be more than one.
 

ataraxia

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I disagree. But in any case it is national freedom not personal freedom I am talking about. (I find it surprising tat you appear to think that the US War of Independence was a mistake. Perhaps the British Colonies should have remained British in the "interests of living on a peaceful planet"?).

Hi here are always pluses and minuses that come with living with other people: whether it’s an individual living in a family, or a nation living in the international community. It can never be perfect freedom- but we all give up a little bit of that to have a little bit of the other.

To think that you can live completely free and do whatever you want, and still have the benefits which come from community, whether it’s an individual living with other people or a nation among other nations, is silly. Now sure there are times when it just can’t be done because the others are demanding too much of you. But to think that it will require nothing on your part is just silly.
 
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