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My immigration plan

Masterhawk

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There are very few topics which divide the republcians and democrats further than the issue of immigration. Here is my take on an ideal immigration plan:

The US needs to tighten up on its border security. I don't think it's wise to waste money on a thousand mile long wall between the US and mexico but donald trump is right when he says that it's far too easy to sneak into the US. We should also reduce funding to sanctuary cities and deport all illegal immigrants. However, america needs to make it easier to obtain a green card and it needs to increase the amount of work visas. The US needs to bring foreign aid to the impoverished mexican comminities and criticize the mexican government for police brutality and its poor record of protecting people from gang violence. Granted, mexico's gang violence has toned down but the gap between the rich and the poor needs to be addressed.

For syrian refugees, we should accept them but we need to make sure that they have no terrorist links. If they have any terrorist links, put them in maximum security prisons
 

Glen Contrarian

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There are very few topics which divide the republcians and democrats further than the issue of immigration. Here is my take on an ideal immigration plan:

The US needs to tighten up on its border security. I don't think it's wise to waste money on a thousand mile long wall between the US and mexico but donald trump is right when he says that it's far too easy to sneak into the US. We should also reduce funding to sanctuary cities and deport all illegal immigrants. However, america needs to make it easier to obtain a green card and it needs to increase the amount of work visas. The US needs to bring foreign aid to the impoverished mexican comminities and criticize the mexican government for police brutality and its poor record of protecting people from gang violence. Granted, mexico's gang violence has toned down but the gap between the rich and the poor needs to be addressed.

For syrian refugees, we should accept them but we need to make sure that they have no terrorist links. If they have any terrorist links, put them in maximum security prisons

A wall would be every bit as useless now as it was in the time of the Mongol Horde. There's these things called "tunnels" - you may have heard of them. What's more, most illegal immigrants aren't the ones who crawled over the walls - most came here legally and overstayed their visas.

If you want to minimize (though you'll never stop) illegal immigration, then do what is necessary to make life in their home countries as easy and as safe as it is here.
 

chuckiechan

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The USA has to make e verify a federal law, and give it teeth. Personal fines and prison sentences for the worst. That will close the job market to illegals. States like California, who's governor Brown have said that regardless of what a republican administration does, they will keep the gates open from Mexico and refuse to cooperate. What do we do? We enforce federal law at the local level, and suspend federal highway money, since illegals travel on these roads. Obviously, that threat is enough to bring them back into compliance.

The USA should start removing incentives for sending manufacturing to Mexico until our trade balance is even. Right now, it's:
Imports $295 billion
Exports $236 billion
Our deficit with Mexico: $ 58 billion.
A correction is doable without starting a war.

Speaking of wars...Remember all the killings a few years ago, a thousand at a pop? That was a fight over drug routes into the USA. The "new" corrupt government took over, made a deal, and guess what? The killings stopped. What does that mean, you muse? That means the government and the cartels have come to an agreement on drug routes into the USA. Government protection is the best protection. Mexico is a corrupt narco state.

Mexico is an enemy of the USA. Their people come in and smile at us, but in reality they hate us. They hate us because we are white, they hate us because we are black. They come here for jobs, to send money home, and go home. They couldn't care less if America went broke tomorrow.
 

jamesrage

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A wall would be every bit as useless now as it was in the time of the Mongol Horde. There's these things called "tunnels" - you may have heard of them. What's more, most illegal immigrants aren't the ones who crawled over the walls - most came here legally and overstayed their visas.

If you want to minimize (though you'll never stop) illegal immigration, then do what is necessary to make life in their home countries as easy and as safe as it is here.


The Chinese did not build just one wall/The built walls like the Mayans and Egyptians built tombs and pyramids.Also a hand.full of times those walls were defeated do not negate all the other times in 1000 plus years the walls did work.
 

jamesrage

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There are very few topics which divide the republcians and democrats further than the issue of immigration. Here is my take on an ideal immigration plan:

The US needs to tighten up on its border security. I don't think it's wise to waste money on a thousand mile long wall between the US and mexico but donald trump is right when he says that it's far too easy to sneak into the US. We should also reduce funding to sanctuary cities and deport all illegal immigrants. However, america needs to make it easier to obtain a green card and it needs to increase the amount of work visas. The US needs to bring foreign aid to the impoverished mexican comminities and criticize the mexican government for police brutality and its poor record of protecting people from gang violence. Granted, mexico's gang violence has toned down but the gap between the rich and the poor needs to be addressed.

For syrian refugees, we should accept them but we need to make sure that they have no terrorist links. If they have any terrorist links, put them in maximum security prisons

We already allow close to a million people a year. We don't need to loosen our standards. If anything we should increase our standards of who let in.
https://www.uscis.gov/archive/archive-news/naturalization-fact-sheet
Green Card Holders and Legal Immigration to the United States | migrationpolicy.org
Marco Rubio says U.S. admits 1 million immigrants a year, far more than any nation | PolitiFact Florida



We do not need more worker visas,those are only used to screw American Workers.Nor do we need to give tax payer dollars to Mexico.Worker visa are abused by scumbag employers like the rats a Disney.Worker visa are used by people in order to purposely overstay them.

Rubio says 40% of illegal immigrants stayed in the U.S. after their visas expired | PolitiFact Florida

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/u...off-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html




Those who are caught here illegally should go to jail for six months for the fist offense ans two years for the second offense like the law says and make that apply to those who deliberately overstay their visa.After that person has served their sentence he or she should be sent to the furthest point away by foot in their country.For example illegals from Mexico would be sent to Cancun, while illegals from Canada would be sent to Alert, Nunavut Canada. Those who hire illegals should be sent to jail for 6 months for each illegal hired for the first time caught and upon a guilty conviction be subject to assets seizure and forfeiture. Illegals should be barred from any licenses/permits.No illegal should receive a state or government issued ID/drivers license. After that only those with a state or government issued ID/driver's license can enroll minor children into school, get tax payer aid for their kids, turn on utilities , get legal documents for themselves and or kids, rent/lease/buy property, open a bank account, wire money, cash a check, use credit/debit card, get vehicle and get a job.


If you can't properly vet someone,the that person should not be let into the country.How do we tell the difference between Ak-med the terrorist,Ak-med the teacher who might be sympathetic to terrorist or Ak-med the goat farmer who doesn't sympathize with terrorist? I think in most cases we can't.
 

Masterhawk

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We already allow close to a million people a year. We don't need to loosen our standards. If anything we should increase our standards of who let in.
https://www.uscis.gov/archive/archive-news/naturalization-fact-sheet
Green Card Holders and Legal Immigration to the United States | migrationpolicy.org
Marco Rubio says U.S. admits 1 million immigrants a year, far more than any nation | PolitiFact Florida



We do not need more worker visas,those are only used to screw American Workers.Nor do we need to give tax payer dollars to Mexico.Worker visa are abused by scumbag employers like the rats a Disney.Worker visa are used by people in order to purposely overstay them.

Rubio says 40% of illegal immigrants stayed in the U.S. after their visas expired | PolitiFact Florida

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/u...off-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html




Those who are caught here illegally should go to jail for six months for the fist offense ans two years for the second offense like the law says and make that apply to those who deliberately overstay their visa.After that person has served their sentence he or she should be sent to the furthest point away by foot in their country.For example illegals from Mexico would be sent to Cancun, while illegals from Canada would be sent to Alert, Nunavut Canada. Those who hire illegals should be sent to jail for 6 months for each illegal hired for the first time caught and upon a guilty conviction be subject to assets seizure and forfeiture. Illegals should be barred from any licenses/permits.No illegal should receive a state or government issued ID/drivers license. After that only those with a state or government issued ID/driver's license can enroll minor children into school, get tax payer aid for their kids, turn on utilities , get legal documents for themselves and or kids, rent/lease/buy property, open a bank account, wire money, cash a check, use credit/debit card, get vehicle and get a job.


If you can't properly vet someone,the that person should not be let into the country.How do we tell the difference between Ak-med the terrorist,Ak-med the teacher who might be sympathetic to terrorist or Ak-med the goat farmer who doesn't sympathize with terrorist? I think in most cases we can't.

In mexico, the minimum wage is much lower than that of the US. The reason many illegals come here is to gain an opportunity which they never had back at mexico. If we increase the amount of work visas, it will help them develop good lives for their family members back in mexico.

secondly, your proposed punishment for illegal immigration seems a bit over the top and extreme
 

jamesrage

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In mexico, the minimum wage is much lower than that of the US.

It doesn't matter if the minimum wage in Mexico is non-existent.Mexico's wages are not out problem. It is not our job to do something about Mexico's wages and economy. That is Mexican peoples jobs to do something about those things.

The reason many illegals come here is to gain an opportunity which they never had back at mexico. If we increase the amount of work visas, it will help them develop good lives for their family members back in mexico.

If we crack down on those who hire illegals, crack down on the illegals and make it nearly impossible for them to benefit from being here illegally most of them will leave and not come back and it will greatly deter future illegal immigration.Again work visas are used by scumbag employers to screw American workers and are used to facilitate illegal immigration. If anything they should be stopped from problem countries. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if 40% of people here illegally came on visas then it is absolutely ridiculous to continue issuing visas to offending nations.

secondly, your proposed punishment for illegal immigration seems a bit over the top and extreme

Sure if you pro-illegal immigration it is a bit over the top and extreme. Fines don't do squat to dirtbags who hire illegals. Simply deporting illegals doesn't work. Jail/prison time and possible assets seizure and forfeiture upon a guilty conviction will deter people from hiring illegals. Jailing people who pissed on our national sovereignty and deporting them to the furthest point in their country away from us will deter illegal immigration.
 

Glen Contrarian

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The Chinese did not build just one wall/The built walls like the Mayans and Egyptians built tombs and pyramids.Also a hand.full of times those walls were defeated do not negate all the other times in 1000 plus years the walls did work.

You completely ignored the key of my post - which was that most illegal immigrants didn't illegally cross the border - they simply overstayed their visas.
 

Captain Adverse

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There are very few topics which divide the republcians and democrats further than the issue of immigration. Here is my take on an ideal immigration plan:

The US needs to tighten up on its border security. I don't think it's wise to waste money on a thousand mile long wall between the US and mexico but donald trump is right when he says that it's far too easy to sneak into the US. We should also reduce funding to sanctuary cities and deport all illegal immigrants. However, [1.]america needs to make it easier to obtain a green card and it needs to increase the amount of work visas. [2.]The US needs to bring foreign aid to the impoverished mexican comminities and criticize the mexican government for police brutality and its poor record of protecting people from gang violence. Granted, mexico's gang violence has toned down but the gap between the rich and the poor needs to be addressed.

I agree there will be no 1000 mile wall and we need to get serious about discovering, deporting, and then preventing all illegal immigrants from returning to the USA.

1. If by "need to make it easier" you REALLY mean making sure to vet all applicants thoroughly to make sure they have a seasonal job and aren't just coming in to try to stay, then yes.

2. Mexico is a sovereign nation. Would you (or do you) appreciate when Russia, China, or any other nations tries to lecture us on how we run our country?

For syrian refugees, we should accept them but we need to make sure that they have no terrorist links. If they have any terrorist links, put them in maximum security prisons

NO! Refugees are not immigrants. They are MIGRANTS, with no intention of melding with our society. They simply want to pick up and transplant whole their own culture from THERE to HERE. That never bodes well for the culture they are invading.

I have no problem with setting up some safe camps in one of our outlying territories, maybe some of the islands in the Pacific or wherever. Then when their homeland is calmed enough we can relocate them back.
 

jamesrage

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You completely ignored the key of my post - which was that most illegal immigrants didn't illegally cross the border - they simply overstayed their visas.

40% is not most and cutting off visas to offending countries would easily cut off that 40%.
 

coldjoint

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You completely ignored the key of my post - which was that most illegal immigrants didn't illegally cross the border - they simply overstayed their visas.

Then they simply broke the law.
 

Glen Contrarian

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Then they simply broke the law.

Yeah, yeah. Take a man with a family, with kids that he cannot raise in safety in his home country for fear they'll be kidnapped and sold into sex slavery, and try to tell him that he's a bad person 'cause he's breaking the law. He'll tell you right where to go.

And it goes for you, too. If you could not raise your children in a safe place in your own nation, if they were constantly in hunger or in danger of being kidnapped, it doesn't matter how oh-so-conservative you are - you, being a good dad, would do your level best to find a way to raise your kids without hunger, and in a safe place...and if the only way you could do that was by breaking the law by illegally living in the U.S., you'd do that. Oh, yes you would.

If you really, truly want to stop illegal immigration, then you need to do what's necessary to make their home nations as safe and as prosperous as America...because if you did, they'd have no reason to sneak into America. That is the ONLY way to stop illegal immigration...because if being an illegal immigrant in America is what it takes to do what's necessary to feed their families and keep them safe, they will do that. Period.

No man can be a patriot on an empty stomach. William Cowper
 

Fledermaus

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Yeah, yeah. Take a man with a family, with kids that he cannot raise in safety in his home country for fear they'll be kidnapped and sold into sex slavery, and try to tell him that he's a bad person 'cause he's breaking the law. He'll tell you right where to go.

And it goes for you, too. If you could not raise your children in a safe place in your own nation, if they were constantly in hunger or in danger of being kidnapped, it doesn't matter how oh-so-conservative you are - you, being a good dad, would do your level best to find a way to raise your kids without hunger, and in a safe place...and if the only way you could do that was by breaking the law by illegally living in the U.S., you'd do that. Oh, yes you would.

If you really, truly want to stop illegal immigration, then you need to do what's necessary to make their home nations as safe and as prosperous as America...because if you did, they'd have no reason to sneak into America. That is the ONLY way to stop illegal immigration...because if being an illegal immigrant in America is what it takes to do what's necessary to feed their families and keep them safe, they will do that. Period.

No man can be a patriot on an empty stomach. William Cowper

TRANSLATION: Yes, they broke the law and some don't care.
 

Glen Contrarian

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TRANSLATION: Yes, they broke the law and some don't care.

Ah, yes, it's the conservative "they broke the law!" argument...the old standby.

Tell you what - you go wake up your little girl and tell her that you're being a Real Mexican Patriot by allowing her to continue to live in hunger, or for continuing to allow her to be at very real risk of being kidnapped and sold into sex slavery or forced to work as a drug mule. Tell her that she's hungry and in danger because you refuse to break that oh-so-precious American law...and see how long you're able to still look yourself in the mirror, see how long you're able to look at your wife in the eyes and tell her that not breaking American law is more important than feeding or protecting her little girl.

Yeah, guy, you can preach about the law all you want...but the law means precisely squat to an empty stomach...which is something that you haven't seemed to have learned yet.
 

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A wall would be every bit as useless now as it was in the time of the Mongol Horde. There's these things called "tunnels" - you may have heard of them. What's more, most illegal immigrants aren't the ones who crawled over the walls - most came here legally and overstayed their visas.

If you want to minimize (though you'll never stop) illegal immigration, then do what is necessary to make life in their home countries as easy and as safe as it is here.

Make their own countries as safe and easy? Are we going to depose the Mexican government, and other Central American governments who are in cahoots with the cartels, and corrupt police forces?
 

Glen Contrarian

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Make their own countries as safe and easy? Are we going to depose the Mexican government, and other Central American governments who are in cahoots with the cartels, and corrupt police forces?

I never said how we would "make those countries safe and easy". I said that was the ONLY way we would ever solve the illegal immigration problem. Otherwise, we will always, always have an illegal immigration problem.
 

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I have no problems with immigrants .... none at all. The more the merrier.

However, I don't think that tax dollars should be used to implement increasing immigration and the societal costs involved.

Immigration is all about the need or the desires of corporations to import the cheap labor, and thus it should be corporations which pay and not the taxpayers.

When I speak out against and refuse to pay for the present system of "Immigration" I am called a racist.

When corporations refuse to pay for the present system of immigration, it is called being "Prudent".

Why is that so?

Calm
 

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I never said how we would "make those countries safe and easy". I said that was the ONLY way we would ever solve the illegal immigration problem. Otherwise, we will always, always have an illegal immigration problem.

I think we need to recognize how corrupt the Mexican and Central American governments really are. We are doing their citizens a disservice by doing business with these governments without demanding that they take control of the war with the cartels, police, and the corrupt nature of business. There are ways to do this without starving the populations.
 

Glen Contrarian

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I think we need to recognize how corrupt the Mexican and Central American governments really are. We are doing their citizens a disservice by doing business with these governments without demanding that they take control of the war with the cartels, police, and the corrupt nature of business. There are ways to do this without starving the populations.

It's not as easy as that. There's an old saying that the visitor sees more in an hour than the host sees in a year. I lived for a while in the Philippines - which correlates pretty well to Mexico in so many ways - and it became apparent to me that the only way to put an end to the endemic corruption would be to:

1 - tell everyone what's about to happen;
2 - begin paying the lowest-level civil servants (especially the law enforcement) a true middle-class wage, and then (after a grace period) start enforcing ethics and anti-corruption rules;
3 - at the same time, institute an anti-corruption force (itself held to the highest, most draconian standards) to enforce ethics and anti-corruption laws among all government officials.

There's more, but the key thing is, when the low-level civil servants and law enforcement are paid poverty wages (and sometimes not even that), they're essentially forced to accept bribes in order to put food on the table. That's where it begins. It's the old saying, "you get what you pay for." If you want a government with a relatively low level of corruption, then you've got to be willing to pay the taxes that are required to have it.
 

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It's not as easy as that. There's an old saying that the visitor sees more in an hour than the host sees in a year. I lived for a while in the Philippines - which correlates pretty well to Mexico in so many ways - and it became apparent to me that the only way to put an end to the endemic corruption would be to:

1 - tell everyone what's about to happen;
2 - begin paying the lowest-level civil servants (especially the law enforcement) a true middle-class wage, and then (after a grace period) start enforcing ethics and anti-corruption rules;
3 - at the same time, institute an anti-corruption force (itself held to the highest, most draconian standards) to enforce ethics and anti-corruption laws among all government officials.

There's more, but the key thing is, when the low-level civil servants and law enforcement are paid poverty wages (and sometimes not even that), they're essentially forced to accept bribes in order to put food on the table. That's where it begins. It's the old saying, "you get what you pay for." If you want a government with a relatively low level of corruption, then you've got to be willing to pay the taxes that are required to have it.

But... these countries know that they have a majority of very poor and uneducated people. It is much easier to control them, and they exploit this situation to the maximum.
 

Glen Contrarian

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But... these countries know that they have a majority of very poor and uneducated people. It is much easier to control them, and they exploit this situation to the maximum.

They're not that uneducated:

The Philippines was named the world’s best country in business English proficiency, even beating the United States, according to a recent study by GlobalEnglish Corporation.

GlobalEnglish has released early this month the results of its annual Business English Index (BEI), the only index that measures business English proficiency in the workplace.

For 2012, results showed that from 76 represented countries worldwide, only the Philippines attained a score above 7.0, "a BEI level within range of a high proficiency that indicates an ability to take an active role in business discussions and perform relatively complex tasks."

“This is particularly interesting because the Philippines, a country with one-tenth of the population of India, recently overtook India as a hub for call centers. Over 400,000 Filipinos are now employed in call centers, roughly 50,000 more than in India,” the study said.
 

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They're not that uneducated:

The Philippines was named the world’s best country in business English proficiency, even beating the United States, according to a recent study by GlobalEnglish Corporation.

GlobalEnglish has released early this month the results of its annual Business English Index (BEI), the only index that measures business English proficiency in the workplace.

For 2012, results showed that from 76 represented countries worldwide, only the Philippines attained a score above 7.0, "a BEI level within range of a high proficiency that indicates an ability to take an active role in business discussions and perform relatively complex tasks."

“This is particularly interesting because the Philippines, a country with one-tenth of the population of India, recently overtook India as a hub for call centers. Over 400,000 Filipinos are now employed in call centers, roughly 50,000 more than in India,” the study said.

I am/was referring to the Hispanics below our southern border. That is about 80% of the current problem.
 

Glen Contrarian

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I am/was referring to the Hispanics below our southern border. That is about 80% of the current problem.

The largest group of illegals in America are the Hispanics, yes. The list - in order - is Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and then the Philippines. But my point is - and this is something you can probably agree with, if you'll think back - there's a LOT of similarities between third-world democracies on different sides of the planet.

For instance, last night we were watching "House Hunters International" on HGTV (yeah, I like to keep my wife happy). Anyway, this episode was a couple of women trying to find a "traditional Jamaican home" for their parents who were from Jamaica, and who wanted to go home for their retirement.

My wife and I watched while the realtor took them to a decent-looking place and said, "I think you'll like this - this is a traditional Jamaican home." We really laughed...because if we didn't know the house was in Jamaica, there was absolutely no way to tell that house wasn't built in the Philippines. Same doggone style, same reinforced-concrete construction...only the paint scheme was different. The slums are the same, too - concrete walls topped with shards of broken glass - saw it in the Philippines, in Nairobi Kenya, and (on the TV) in Brazil. The cops are just as corrupt, just as bribable - I bribed a judge to get my brother-in-law out of jail on drug charges...and he's now here in America working a full-time job paying taxes and driving a decent car.

Seen one third-world democracy, except for the skin and the food, you've pretty much seen them all.
 

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The largest group of illegals in America are the Hispanics, yes. The list - in order - is Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and then the Philippines. But my point is - and this is something you can probably agree with, if you'll think back - there's a LOT of similarities between third-world democracies on different sides of the planet.

For instance, last night we were watching "House Hunters International" on HGTV (yeah, I like to keep my wife happy). Anyway, this episode was a couple of women trying to find a "traditional Jamaican home" for their parents who were from Jamaica, and who wanted to go home for their retirement.

My wife and I watched while the realtor took them to a decent-looking place and said, "I think you'll like this - this is a traditional Jamaican home." We really laughed...because if we didn't know the house was in Jamaica, there was absolutely no way to tell that house wasn't built in the Philippines. Same doggone style, same reinforced-concrete construction...only the paint scheme was different. The slums are the same, too - concrete walls topped with shards of broken glass - saw it in the Philippines, in Nairobi Kenya, and (on the TV) in Brazil. The cops are just as corrupt, just as bribable - I bribed a judge to get my brother-in-law out of jail on drug charges...and he's now here in America working a full-time job paying taxes and driving a decent car.

Seen one third-world democracy, except for the skin and the food, you've pretty much seen them all.

I agree.
 
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