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My daughter's first spanking

KevinKohler said:
Happened today. Up till now it's been nothing but time outs, and the removal of positive reinforcement incentives, like candy, ice cream, or chocolate milk. Which typically works. She's terrified of time out. Oh, she's 4 and a half, by the way. Well, anyway, today's was different. I had them outside, and I was inside cleaning the kitchen, doing dishes, etc. I have a fenced in back yard, so it's minimal supervision. Well, I pop my head up just in time to see that my daughter Grace had somehow gotten the broom portion off of the broom stick, and was waving it around. Then, as I was rinsing my hands to go correct the situation, my two year old son wants a try, and starts walking over to grab the pile. Graces hits him in the face. It looked intentional. Then she saw me, and knew she was in trouble and ran to the corner of the yard. I went to check on Isaac who had been knocked down, and was crying profusely. He had a bruise in the very corner of his eye socket, and cuts with a littler blood. He had got hit by the metal screw end, and the threads had cut him. I got him cleaned up, then grabbed grace, and right there in the yard, gave her 4 good licks on the butt, and sent her to her room.

And then the uncertainty. Is she still too young for spankings? Did I over react? Would an extra long time out have worked just as well? She already knew she did something wrong.

People ask me the biggest thing about parenting, and I have the same answer everytime. Uncertainty. It's like putting together a complicated model without instructions, just going by a picture on the box. You THINK you're doung it right, but you're never quite sure.
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spanking ?

no kind of pyhsical punishment !

teh fact that you are their parents doesnt give you the right to insult and harm them
 
TiredOfLife said:
When you are hitting a child you love, it's not that simple, nor should it be. The anger should be there or there's no point. It's cold and calculated otherwise and that's not a good thing. I didn't say rage, I said anger. Don't have it, don't bother.
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Yeah, as I said, I completely and totally disagree. This isn't about the parent's feelings at all; it is about behavior modification where the issue is a crucial one. You say "cold and calculated", I say "thoughtful and purposeful".
 
KevinKohler said:
Happened today. Up till now it's been nothing but time outs, and the removal of positive reinforcement incentives, like candy, ice cream, or chocolate milk. Which typically works. She's terrified of time out. Oh, she's 4 and a half, by the way. Well, anyway, today's was different. I had them outside, and I was inside cleaning the kitchen, doing dishes, etc. I have a fenced in back yard, so it's minimal supervision. Well, I pop my head up just in time to see that my daughter Grace had somehow gotten the broom portion off of the broom stick, and was waving it around. Then, as I was rinsing my hands to go correct the situation, my two year old son wants a try, and starts walking over to grab the pile. Graces hits him in the face. It looked intentional. Then she saw me, and knew she was in trouble and ran to the corner of the yard. I went to check on Isaac who had been knocked down, and was crying profusely. He had a bruise in the very corner of his eye socket, and cuts with a littler blood. He had got hit by the metal screw end, and the threads had cut him. I got him cleaned up, then grabbed grace, and right there in the yard, gave her 4 good licks on the butt, and sent her to her room.

And then the uncertainty. Is she still too young for spankings? Did I over react? Would an extra long time out have worked just as well? She already knew she did something wrong.

People ask me the biggest thing about parenting, and I have the same answer everytime. Uncertainty. It's like putting together a complicated model without instructions, just going by a picture on the box. You THINK you're doung it right, but you're never quite sure.
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I think you're being too hard on yourself. I personally don't think physical punishments are appropriate at any age (unless you're dealing with a teenager who is physically threatening or harming you). However, while I understand why you would seek input from other people, I think you should punish her in the way that you're comfortable with and in the way that works. If you're uncomfortable with spanking her, then the next time something like that happens, maybe try another punishment and see if that works. If it does work, then you've found a way to discipline her for that particular offense without feeling as uncomfortable as you do now. If the alternative doesn't work, then you may try something else or go back to spanking. Trial and error.

People often have strong opinions on this. Some people swear by spanking and others swear against it. But I know people who were spanked and people who weren't who all turned out well so deciding it's appropriateness at any age isn't simple. I was spanked as a kid, but I cared more about time outs or missing out on treats than that so I don't know that it worked well for me. It depends. That's why I say that you should just figure out what works for you.
 
KevinKohler said:
Happened today. Up till now it's been nothing but time outs, and the removal of positive reinforcement incentives, like candy, ice cream, or chocolate milk. Which typically works. She's terrified of time out. Oh, she's 4 and a half, by the way. Well, anyway, today's was different. I had them outside, and I was inside cleaning the kitchen, doing dishes, etc. I have a fenced in back yard, so it's minimal supervision. Well, I pop my head up just in time to see that my daughter Grace had somehow gotten the broom portion off of the broom stick, and was waving it around. Then, as I was rinsing my hands to go correct the situation, my two year old son wants a try, and starts walking over to grab the pile. Graces hits him in the face. It looked intentional. Then she saw me, and knew she was in trouble and ran to the corner of the yard. I went to check on Isaac who had been knocked down, and was crying profusely. He had a bruise in the very corner of his eye socket, and cuts with a littler blood. He had got hit by the metal screw end, and the threads had cut him. I got him cleaned up, then grabbed grace, and right there in the yard, gave her 4 good licks on the butt, and sent her to her room.

And then the uncertainty. Is she still too young for spankings? Did I over react? Would an extra long time out have worked just as well? She already knew she did something wrong.

People ask me the biggest thing about parenting, and I have the same answer everytime. Uncertainty. It's like putting together a complicated model without instructions, just going by a picture on the box. You THINK you're doung it right, but you're never quite sure.
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Alert: Advice coming from someone who is childless.

She's not too young to spank. What she did is exactly what I would reserve spanking for. Four good licks? Too many, in my humble opinion. It's not the physical pain of the spanking. It's the shame of it. A little bit of discomfort/pain goes a very long way.

My daddy spanked me!!!!!!!! OMFG!!!!!!!!!! (Well, of course, she wouldn't think THAT, but I think you get what I mean.) ;)

Good daddy. Lil' uns need protecting from bigger uns.
 
I--and most people my age--have experienced been spanked by our parents. Though I can remember it being somewhat painful at the time, I don't think I have any scarring or bad memories from it. In fact, my brother and I now sometimes laugh about some of the times we recall. I don't see any problem with the spanking you imposed on your daughter. You did it for a good reason and hopefully she has learned a good lesson and won't do it again. I was quite the little shyster so I had to do the same "bad things" a few times before the message sunk in. :lol:
 
Chiefgator said:
Sounds like you did right in my book.

I remember the first spanking I gave to my son. I actually walked out and into my bedroom and cried after I did it. Being a parent is not always easy......
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KevinKohler said:
I just hope I don't have too many of those...she's fine now...I'm not.
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if a kid doesnt act the way you want it means you are doing something wrong ,not him

at least it makes you cry and feel bad

it means you are still doing something wrong
 
Middleground said:
I--and most people my age--have experienced been spanked by our parents. Though I can remember it being somewhat painful at the time, I don't think I have any scarring or bad memories from it. In fact, my brother and I now sometimes laugh about some of the times we recall. I don't see any problem with the spanking you imposed on your daughter. You did it for a good reason and hopefully she has learned a good lesson and won't do it again. I was quite the little shyster so I had to do the same "bad things" a few times before the message sunk in. :lol:
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What she learned was, don't let dad see you hitting little brother.
 
Medusa said:
if a kid doesnt act the way you want it means you are doing something wrong ,not him

at least it makes you cry and feel bad

it means you are still doing something wrong
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No. If you don't react to your child doing something wrong in the right way, you're doing something wrong. Kids push the envelope. It's what they're born to do.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
There is the question of why big sister wanted to hurt little brother.
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true

thats what l mean

maybe kevin should try to learn whether grace is jealous of her brother

just an opinion

if grace keeps harming him kevin may try taking her to a child psychiatrist
 
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MaggieD said:
No. If you don't react to your child doing something wrong in the right way, you're doing something wrong. Kids push the envelope. It's what they're born to do.
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reaction doesnt mean physical punishment maggie
 
Of course she's jealous. What older sibling isn't? She had us to herself for two years before Isaac showed up one day. He tends to get hurt around her, but to my knowledge, it's never before been intentional. It's just a matter of, she's 4, and he's 2, but he wants to do everything she's doing. So he gets hurt. To be honest, I still don't know if her hitting him with that pole was intentional. She sure knew she was in trouble when she saw me, though. But that could just be because she had been told before, and knows that she's supposed to be careful around her brother.
 
KevinKohler said:
Happened today. Up till now it's been nothing but time outs, and the removal of positive reinforcement incentives, like candy, ice cream, or chocolate milk. Which typically works. She's terrified of time out. Oh, she's 4 and a half, by the way. Well, anyway, today's was different. I had them outside, and I was inside cleaning the kitchen, doing dishes, etc. I have a fenced in back yard, so it's minimal supervision. Well, I pop my head up just in time to see that my daughter Grace had somehow gotten the broom portion off of the broom stick, and was waving it around. Then, as I was rinsing my hands to go correct the situation, my two year old son wants a try, and starts walking over to grab the pile. Graces hits him in the face. It looked intentional. Then she saw me, and knew she was in trouble and ran to the corner of the yard. I went to check on Isaac who had been knocked down, and was crying profusely. He had a bruise in the very corner of his eye socket, and cuts with a littler blood. He had got hit by the metal screw end, and the threads had cut him. I got him cleaned up, then grabbed grace, and right there in the yard, gave her 4 good licks on the butt, and sent her to her room.

And then the uncertainty. Is she still too young for spankings? Did I over react? Would an extra long time out have worked just as well? She already knew she did something wrong.

People ask me the biggest thing about parenting, and I have the same answer everytime. Uncertainty. It's like putting together a complicated model without instructions, just going by a picture on the box. You THINK you're doung it right, but you're never quite sure.
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You did fine. Not an over reaction. As long as you did not physically hurt her she will get a clear message. Also, she is too young for an extra long time out. As long as you explained why she got a spanking, what she could do next time instead (problem solve) apologize to her brother and to you and end it with a loving hug and kiss it will all be good.

I have never spanked my daughters, ages 8 and 9. I have given each of them a one-swat to the butt though for running almost into traffic and maybe one or two other times when they were toddlers. It makes an impression.
 
KevinKohler said:
Of course she's jealous. What older sibling isn't? She had us to herself for two years before Isaac showed up one day. He tends to get hurt around her, but to my knowledge, it's never before been intentional. It's just a matter of, she's 4, and he's 2, but he wants to do everything she's doing. So he gets hurt. To be honest, I still don't know if her hitting him with that pole was intentional. She sure knew she was in trouble when she saw me, though. But that could just be because she had been told before, and knows that she's supposed to be careful around her brother.
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but it didnt prevent her from hitting the brother

at least you know it makes you feel bad when you punish her physically

avoid it next time
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Big sisters should be protective of little brothers and generally are unless there is some issue.
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4 year olds of either sex are wanton engines of destruction and collateral damage, bent on converting order to chaos wherever and whenever possible.
 
Medusa said:
but it didnt prevent her from hitting the brother

at least you know it makes you feel bad when you punish her physically

avoid it next time
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I'd like to, but obviously, the time outs weren't working, else he would not have been hit in the eye with the metal end of a broom pole. We'll see if the spanking sent a louder, more permanent message.
 
Goshin said:
This isn't about the parent's feelings at all;
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In the past I would have called this nonsense. Now I will simply say that I believe you are not accounting for the true nature of the parent-child interaction? Let us say, for the sake of argument, that being not the slightest bit angry is possible and that the entire spanking is without any emotion at all. Well a stranger could do that, a professional spanker could do that. Are you going to send your child off to them because it's only about the child not you? That would be the same thing unless there is a dynamic between the frustrated (meaning mildly angry) parent and the child over their knee. The anger needs to be there, that's the point of spanking a child. They have either made you really angry or scared the crap out of you, or both. Without that, don't bother spanking, like wait tell your father gets home. It's calculated and cold. It can't just be you hitting them, it has to be you hitting them because you are mad as hell even if you are under control about it.
 
KevinKohler said:
I'd like to, but obviously, the time outs weren't working, else he would not have been hit in the eye with the metal end of a broom pole. We'll see if the spanking sent a louder, more permanent message.
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Since you aren't sure she did it on purpose, you can take comfort in knowing she was doing something reckless regardless. Could have just as easily been tragic. Dangerous actions require lasting impressions. You did the right thing.
 
KevinKohler said:
Happened today. Up till now it's been nothing but time outs, and the removal of positive reinforcement incentives, like candy, ice cream, or chocolate milk. Which typically works. She's terrified of time out. Oh, she's 4 and a half, by the way. Well, anyway, today's was different. I had them outside, and I was inside cleaning the kitchen, doing dishes, etc. I have a fenced in back yard, so it's minimal supervision. Well, I pop my head up just in time to see that my daughter Grace had somehow gotten the broom portion off of the broom stick, and was waving it around. Then, as I was rinsing my hands to go correct the situation, my two year old son wants a try, and starts walking over to grab the pile. Graces hits him in the face. It looked intentional. Then she saw me, and knew she was in trouble and ran to the corner of the yard. I went to check on Isaac who had been knocked down, and was crying profusely. He had a bruise in the very corner of his eye socket, and cuts with a littler blood. He had got hit by the metal screw end, and the threads had cut him. I got him cleaned up, then grabbed grace, and right there in the yard, gave her 4 good licks on the butt, and sent her to her room.

And then the uncertainty. Is she still too young for spankings? Did I over react? Would an extra long time out have worked just as well? She already knew she did something wrong.

People ask me the biggest thing about parenting, and I have the same answer everytime. Uncertainty. It's like putting together a complicated model without instructions, just going by a picture on the box. You THINK you're doung it right, but you're never quite sure.
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You (and others) may find these podcasts episode interesting. It's about parenting without spanking and stuff.

The Corbett Report | Interview 671 – Laurette Lynn on Peaceful Parenting

The Corbett Report | Interview 675 – Stefan Molyneux on Peaceful Parenting
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Big sisters should be protective of little brothers and generally are unless there is some issue.
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That is the point... with kids there are some issues many times. Little kids get their bigger brothers and sisters into trouble all the time unless a parent is onto it. There can be a lot of resentment and that is nothing unusual.
 
TiredOfLife said:
In the past I would have called this nonsense. Now I will simply say that I believe you are not accounting for the true nature of the parent-child interaction? Let us say, for the sake of argument, that being not the slightest bit angry is possible and that the entire spanking is without any emotion at all. Well a stranger could do that, a professional spanker could do that. Are you going to send your child off to them because it's only about the child not you? That would be the same thing unless there is a dynamic between the frustrated (meaning mildly angry) parent and the child over their knee. The anger needs to be there, that's the point of spanking a child. They have either made you really angry or scared the crap out of you, or both. Without that, don't bother spanking, like wait tell your father gets home. It's calculated and cold. It can't just be you hitting them, it has to be you hitting them because you are mad as hell even if you are under control about it.
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That may be the case for lots of parents but does not mean that spanking must be calculated and cold from an angry parent. It can just as easily be about reinforcing a clear message about boundaries.
 
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