My Case

[Jenin]

I am not writing this in order to place the blame from one side to another, I am writing this in order to point out the evident distortion, stereotyping and bias inorder to feel like I have done my effort in trying to end these injustices. I joined these forums to have educational debated but have been overwhelmed by attacks on muslims so vage and stereotypical that they have incurred in me a great dislike for my participation and I am going to present my case and cool off for a while after that because I have had enough of this…. Here are my thoughts and a little ramble…. And also excerpts from documentary article regarding certain subject and links I kindly request all those reading this to visit. I hope you do not consider having heard my case without first having visited and watched the brief video links and checked the facts online for yourselves…

 

[Jenin]

When Paris consisted of a couple dozen mud houses, the Arab capital of Cordova in Andalusia (modern day Spain) was a multi ethnic city where Arab Jew and Christian lived in harmony and renaissance. The end of this harmony came about with the inquision of Muslims and Jews and their mass-murder. Could it be that a religion which flourished in equity and harmony is all of a sudden the root of all hate and chaos? The racist stereo-typing happening here is a result of lack of knowledge, racism, or hypocrisy on behalf of those who know yet would rather join the crowd in attacking Muslims, Arabs, and Palestinians. Many thousands of Arabs have been killed by American and British bombs dropped on their cities in the force of Sock and Awe. Let us not be fools. For those who can remember back to early 2003, the major driving reason behind these murderous bombs was a big fat lie. These bombs, it is presumed, do not terrorism people or murder en mass, or create havoc and destruction. The blood of those stereotyped the way they have been these days does not seem to be of much relevance. We count numbers, dispute figures and come up with new reasons justify an attack initiated with lies. The reality is we hate to put ourselves in other people's shoes. We strategize and anticipate coming wars because people's lives and security do not touch us. Palestine has been occupied for decades. History has been so twisted on this matter that the natives of Palestine only seemed to exist since ww1, 'since ottoman times' as FaceofJacob puts it. It has even been implied that it was Arabs who came in to a majority Jewish Israel, as if Israel's creation was something that attracted them to it. FACT: The creation of Israel confiscated the properties and denied the rights many of an entire native nation already present there for thousands of years. FACT: These people in the west bank and Gaza have not been granted independence or been allowed equal rights for many years before the intifadas or the 'terror'. FACT: FORCED EVICTION of Palestinians occurred in 1948. Their property confiscated, their rights denied once in the west bank, Gaza or outside.
Islam is attacked by the most pro war and pro occupation members in this forum. They even imply that it is an Islam problem or that all Muslims are 'Nazis' or criminals. To those of you who eagerly and most easily present your case against this great religion and it's followers I say: Hypocrisy is a human trait that is enemy and common to many of us. Before you site the commands of God in the Quran, site those commands found in your Bibles and torahs. The great irony is that Muslims have been stereotyped to such an extent as to make them blood thirsty sub human creatures. Let us not forget the crusades and it's decades of destruction. Let us not forget the devastation, death and destruction brought about Europe in it's many wars because of supposed believers of the Bible. There are texts in the Jewish scriptures that make Jewish blood the only forbidden blood spilled: These texts and their passages and other passages have been used for centuries to persecute the Jews, by Christians who have similar violent references in their Bible. All these religious texts have been used to fight and also have been used to bring peace. The hypocrisy lies in those who seem to negate their own history and past and crimes in order to promote their agenda by providing attacks on another religion. It has been very interesting to notice that most supposed information about Islam in the Middle East forum has been provided by an Anti-Muslim Zionist Jew. Things about my religion have been said that are so absurd and so untrue…yet people continue to believe them as if they expected these crazy evils. Many odd things linked to Shia (splitter) Muslims have been used to stereotype all Muslims when in fact they constitute on 10% of total Muslim population. Sunni (traditionalist) Muslims have been described by wicked videos (of some crazy man in a beard claiming he pulled cloth out of a woman or some other ridiculous video --many posted by the anti-Muslim Zionist FaceofJacob) that does not even come close to representing actual majority Muslim belief or practice. So I begin to wonder. I ask you all to kindly research the basics of Islam, learn about it from those who know it best, those who practice it and live by it – the Muslims, and join me in condemning this hateful propagation of inflammatory videos and articles that stereotype Islam, or any other religion. The American bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima that obliterated many hundreds of thousands in seconds could not have been a Christian act – it would be wrong to stereotype it as such. It was a holocaust of half a million people in seconds, yet it Christianity or the general practicing Christian cannot be referred to as a christiano-nazi-facist-scum or whatever other degrading terminologies have been made that implicitly stereotype Islam with them in this forum. The Noble Quran teaches noble lessons in peace and human coexistence but also commands the believers: "Fight those who oppress you because you believe in Allah (The God) but if they cease to fight you then do not transgress, for God likes not transgressors." Muslims take these words as their right to defend themselves against innumerable forces plotting against them. The Arabs were conquered by racist empires in WW1 and divided, their lands drawn and divided by Anglo-French elite. Lloyd George said the aim of the division was to create an 'Arab Fascade' allied to the imperial powers and one where these powers could maintain their hold on their strategic oil resources. Truman, the American president at the time of Israel's creation was an advent racist, referring to Mao Tsung of China as 'Mousie Dung'. Churchill Gassed the Kurds 70 years before Saddam did when he was ally of the republican administration of his time) Arab regimes secure their totalitarianism of politics through American approval and support. Such was the case of saddam until he disobeyed his masters. Prophets Solomon and David are depicted in the Bible as to having thousands of wives, as even having very immoral codes of conduct – does that mean that they are heathens worthy of disgrace and hate? My point is why all this hypocracy?

 

[Jenin]

Winston Churchill had this to say about the Palestinians in 1937: "I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."
Mickey Z: History Forgave Churchill, Why Not Blair and Bush?
A few days after the capture of Jaffa, Giora Yoseftal, Chief of the Jewish Agency's Department of Immigrant Absorption, went to see how many new immigrants could be settled in the town. Many of the streets were empty when he arrived, the houses abandoned and the shops boarded up. The smell of war was still in the air as well as the residual odors of life that had existed there earlier. Yoseftal, a tall yekkeh (German Jew), proper and very thorough, took care to obtain the documentation showing that he was acting in accordance with official policy. The documents included one from the Custodian and one from Ben-Gurion himself, confirming that Jaffa was intended for the settlement of new immigrants. "Jaffa will be a Jewish city," wrote Ben-Gurion in his diary, "War is war." Yoseftal set up a "housing committee" in his department, and assigned it the task of distributing the houses among the immigrants, in accordance with qualifications and criteria which he himself determined. But the time was inauspicious for committees and criteria-the houses in Jaffa fell to whoever grabbed them first.
Shafrir wrote:
With the intensification of immigration in the summer of 1948, the institutions which looked after the immigrants themselves began to demand that parts of the city which were still under occupation be made available to them. The property included warehouses and shops from which the merchandise had yet to be removed, as well as fully equipped workshops and plants. In Haifa the inspector's office began to issue apartments to the Absorption Department as early as July. The intention was to proceed through the city, quarter by quarter, allocating the apartments and business premises, after the goods had already been taken out of them. But the order was not followed. Hundreds of immigrant families were sent to take possession of apartments, and this caused confusion both in the collecting of goods and in the distribution of apartments. In Jaffa the situation was considerably worse. A certain part of the city was scheduled to be opened on September 10, and a particular allocation of houses was actually agreed upon-to be given to the Absorption Department, the army, the government officials who had been transferred from Jerusalem, and for the children of the settlements who had been evacuated during the war and who had been living in Tel Aviv schools, as well as to the soldiers' families. The Tel Aviv Absorption Department ignored this agreement and went ahead and organized a mass invasion of hundreds of families. ..before the date that was originally agreed upon for the opening of the city to civilians. The government appointed a committee to handle the distribution of apartments in Jaffa. The committee met and reached authoritative conclusions. But once again no heed was paid to the proper agreement. This time the social welfare officers sent hundreds of soldiers' families. Thus the populating of Jaffa was achieved by continuous invasions and counter-invasions [of unauthorized immigrants]." (3)
By established custom, whoever succeeded in placing a bed in a room and spending the night in it, acquired the right of possession. One day Avraham Am salem, age 19, entered the house of Mohammed Abu Sirah in the Ajjami [in Jaffa] quarter [in Jaffa], and, threatening the Arab with his submachine gun, invaded and occupied the hallway of his house. The man was brought to trial and in court he explained that he was about to get married and had nowhere to live. He was sentenced to five days in prison. A few weeks previously, a few score soldiers, some of them disabled, invaded Arab houses in Wadi Nisnas and Abbas Street in Haifa. Carrying arms, they appeared at six o'clock in the morning, and forcibly ejected the residents. Then they threw out their belongings and brought in their own. The police came and removed them, but by evening they had invaded other people's homes. They, too, had nowhere to live.
Looting, Looting, and More Looting
Deir Yassin:
According to Begin:
Arabs throughout the country, induced to believe wild tales of "Irgun butchery," were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overestimated.


Of about 144 houses, 10 were dynamited. The cemetery was later bulldozed and, like hundreds of other Palestinian villages to follow, Deir Yassin was wiped off the map. By September, Orthodox Jewish immigrants from Poland, Rumania, and Slovakia were settled there over the objections of Martin Buber, Cecil Roth and other Jewish leaders, who believed that the site of the massacre should be left uninhabited. The center of the village was renamed Givat Shaul Bet. As Jerusalem expanded, the land of Deir Yassin became part of the city and is now known simply as the area between Givat Shaul and the settlement of Har Nof on the western slopes of the mountain.

Deir Yassin: History of the Massacre

To those of you who curse Allah, know this.. Arab Jews and Christians in the middle east call God Allah because Allah mean God in Arabic..
Allah is the Arabic language word referring to "God", "the Lord" and, literally according to the Qur'an, to the "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" in the Abrahamic religions. It does not mean "a god", but rather "the Only True God", the Supreme Creator of the universe, and it is the main term for the deity in Islam. However, "Allah" is not restricted to just Islam, and used by Arab Christians and Jews according to geographic region. It was used by the the majority of the Arabs in History to refer to God.
Allāh is found in the Qur'an and in Arabic translations of both the ; Tanakh and the Gospels and even in the Indonesian translations of the Bible.
Outside the Arabic World, the use of "Allāh" is generally associated exclusively with Islam, and is used to refer specifically to the Islamic concept of God. It is nearly the same as the Jewish conception of a single God,[1][2] but differs from the Trinitarian Christian conception of God. In Islam, the concept of one God is strictly observed. The Qu'ran refers to a Jewish belief in Ezra as the Son of GodQuran 9:30, although historical Judaism is also strictly monotheistic.
Islamic scholars often translate "Allāh" directly into English as "God", especially Qur'an alone Muslims. Other scholars feel that "Allāh" should not be translated arguing that "Allāh" is the term for "the Only God" in a glorified pronunciation. This is a significant issue when translating the Qur'an.
Allah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




VIDEOS: please watch

YouTube - palestine

YouTube - Arundhati Roy on the Palestinian / Israeli Conflict

YouTube - Peace,Propaganda and the Promised Land

YouTube - palestine

 

[Australianlibertarian]

Here is a wee question....

How do you think that Cordova was once under Muslim influence. Did Islam just magically appear in that part of Spain..... Oh I forgot the Muslim Moors invaded Spain. Sounds rather IMPERIALISTIC to me. Check your history books. Christians and Jews were tolerated in Muslim Spain, they were not given EQUAL RIGHTS.

You don't seem to crumble about the Ottamon Empire. Arabs in Palestine didn't have much rights under the Ottamans. Lastly you obviously support brutal dictators, you obviously support the status quo. Where was your outrage at the massacre of the Kurds, or Shia under Saddam's regime? Thing is that America has given Iraq the chance to be free, if Iraq chooses to fratacide rather than to live in harmony so be it. But at least Iraq has the CHOICE, under Saddam there was only authoritarianism.

Lastly the war between Arabs and Jews has being going on since Mohammed first battled the Jewish tribes in the Arabian peninsula.

 

[Jenin]

You are mistaken about war between arabs and jews going on since the prophet muhammad's time. It is true that the prophet muhammad and some jews had been in conflict, but there has never been a continued congenital war, conflict or vilence between arabs and jews. Jews lived safer in arab world than anywhere else. The major and continuing conflict between arab and jew began with the zionist displacement of palestinians and the continued occupation of palestinian west bank and gaza, along with the continued settlement project expansion and the land annexation and confiscation by the wall being constructed.

Jews reached prominent positions in spain...in fact most historians argue that they flourished under arab rule whilst being holocausted by the west.

PLEASE read my entire argument, visit the links and watch the videos.. I would appreciate the fact that even though you might disagree with me you gave time to read my argument and check the facts for yourself and watch the brief clips. I would be thankful and respectful for that sir.
thanks again

 

[Australianlibertarian]

You seem to miss my point. Sure Jews were tolerated in the Muslim empire, and I am in now doubt that some Jews and Christians rose to prominance. But the historical references, and the Koran shows the Christains and Jews (although protected under dhimmi status) are not equal citizens.

You seem to miss my point about Arab-Muslim imperialism. You rant on about Israeli aggretion, yet the Muslim Empire was founded on aggression. Period.

Lastly Palestinians were given a two state option back in 1947. The Arab world refused to except this. Now considering that Palestine had never been ruled by its indigenous population, Arab or Jewish. How can Palestinian Arabs claim ownership of land that was ruled by the Romans, Arab Caphilate, Turks the the British?

Now if you can't afford to lose land, then don't attack Israel. Simple as.

Jenin, if the conflict was about land why is it that suicide bombers attack Tel-Aviv and Jerusalem when there are many settlements to attack, which you claim are the root cause of the problem?...... Seems like your resistance fighters are more interested in killing Jews, than actual strategic or Marxist-Leninist objectives.

Lastly why is that neither Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, or Egypt actually give citizenship to the Palestinian refugees that live within their nations? Because in the west we CAN grant citizenship to refugees. Seems like the Arab nations are more interested in perpetuating "Palestinian Victimhood" than actually giving these people productives lives. And considering that the actions of Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon contributed to the refugee crisis, then surely the best thing to do would be to grant Palestinian refugees citizenship in their respective countires instead of hording them as human collateral in refugee camps.

 

[Shayah]

The major and continuing conflict between arab and jew began with the zionist displacement of palestinians and the continued occupation of palestinian west bank and gaza, along with the continued settlement project expansion and the land annexation and confiscation by the wall being constructed.

The major and continuing conflict began the day after Israel became a soverign nation. On that day, no less than five Arab armies declared war and fancied that they could push the Israelis into the sea. So sure were the Arabs in their aggression, that they never considered the consequences of defeat. And yes, defeat has consequences. The Arabs have invaded Israel numerous times, and each attempted aggression ended in their defeat and additional consequences.

The Pals bitch and moan about those consequences incessantly, but have never owned up to the fact that they brought it upon themselves. Rather than sue for peace and prosperity, they instead embraced terrorism and then complain bitterly when Israel builds a security fence. They have turned down every peace initiative ever put forth and then have the temerity to wonder why their position is so crappy. The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Israel isn't going anywhere. Deal with it. Negotiate a settlement and move on as Egypt and Jordan have done. Stop whining and roll up your sleeves and work at success. You'd be surprised at what you can accomplish if you really try.

 

[Jenin]

Shayah,

Israel can stay. 78% of Historical palestine is yours, we concede that part. Give us an un-settled west bank and gaza, get the troops out, return arab east jerusalem, stop enraging the people by demolishing their homes, confiscating their lands, uprooting their trees and way of life, and simply get out.

Israel says the palestinians in west bank and gaza cannot be made citizens, they would change the jewish majority demographic.
So ok, no bi-national state...no equal rights...
But what then?
Sharon proposes a bantustan 3 canton project and no jerusalem.
That is not negotiation, that is force through occupation. They are implementing it and I just hope that the way things are going this is not going to be true because it will lead to more popular uprisings by the palestinian people.
The last days of taba, they almost had it worked out.... but the Israelis refused the right of return of refugees...Arafat refused signing a paper denying the right of return of refugees. Mistake? Maybe.

I think a just solution would be compensation to the refugees from 1948 and that they return to a palestinian state in the pre 67 borders. The complete west bank and gaza... super highway connecting them... no settlements... maali adumim has to go.... and of course east jerusalem and the al-aqsa.

would that be a solution you as an israeli would live with? what do you propose..what do you think would be a good final solution.

 

[Jenin]

Australian

Palestinian claim the land because even though the ruling powers changed, they were not displaced from that land or put under such an intricate system of occupation. They claim the land because the names and rulers changed but most palestinians have lived there for atleast 1,400 years. It could be called jordan israel egypt ottoman province, crusader kingdom, mameluke country, arab caliphate...whatever, but during all those periods, my ancestors lived there. I can personally positively track my roots to around 600 ad... that is as early as my family tree (its more a book than a tree) dates back.

 

[Gardener]

Shayah,

Israel can stay. 78% of Historical palestine is yours, .

Perhaps if you started telling the truth with some degree of regularity, I might consider you at least a little bit credible, but since the original Palestinian mandate included all of what is now Israel, the West Bank and Jordan, your figure is nothing but a lie designed to deceive.

Much like the rest of your hackneyed propaganda.


The League of Nations Mandate for Palestine - 1920

 

[Jenin]

Historical palestine is the land between the river Jordan and the mediterranian
You are one of those who denies the rights of palestinians opting to call jordan the palestinian home. You are a racist. You are the deciever.

 

[Gardener]

You are one of those who denies the rights of palestinians opting to call jordan the palestinian home. You are a racist. You are the deciever.

Another lie, and a very stupid one at that, since it reveals the dishonesty inherent in your first lie.

I do support the right of Palestinians to call Jordan their home. The fact that they do quite obviously discredits your figure of 78%.

 

[Jenin]

you are a racist, one of those crazy people who would like to see entire historical palestine (from river jordan to mediteranian) as fully israeli and jordan be the 'palestinian state'. You misread or maybe i mistyped this assertion but you confirmed it. Jordan is a nation that has provided most palestinian refugees with citizenship and made them jordanian. That is appreciated but it is NOT my home. My home is palestine and no one will enforce a confiscation of the west bank on palestinians or enforce their deportation without one hell of a resistance.

 

[Gardener]

you are a racist, one of those crazy people who would like to see entire historical palestine (from river jordan to mediteranian) as fully israeli and jordan be the 'palestinian state'. You misread or maybe i mistyped this assertion but you confirmed it. Jordan is a nation that has provided most palestinian refugees with citizenship and made them jordanian. That is appreciated but it is NOT my home. My home is palestine and no one will enforce a confiscation of the west bank on palestinians or enforce their deportation without one hell of a resistance.

"Racist" here must be defined as anybody with enough intelligence to see through your falsehoods, distortions, hyperbole and simple minded propaganda.


I believe you should be allowed to live in the area in which you were born unless you are a part of a criminal organization such as Hamas and were deported for terrorist activities and/or tactical support.

Where were you born, btw?

 

[Jenin]

Well then, the feeling is mutual.
You the palestinian take on what happened as distortions
I view your take on what happened as distortions
I retract my racist comment as It has been shown to me that it really is unbecoming in a debate. It does not help my case and it does not contribute to anything close to a fruitful discussion.

 

[Jenin]

Simple minded propaganda: These creatures known as palestinians are blowing them selves up everywhere -- theyve always been like that and they always will be so to heck with 80 years of aspiring for statehood they should be wiped off the map these nazi loving muslims....

i have heard this repeatedly in different ways from different forumers all over this website. people claiming the higher moral ground - neglecting their own convoluted dark history of savagry and incessently digging deep into any weirdo with a muslim heritage and then posting his cary views inorder to stereotype an entire people and press forth with their agenda propagation.

I have tried playing dirty just like they do, but it is not helping my case.
I might feel singled and having to face multiples of debate opposites.
Anyways, I try my best to push through points people overlook due to this fog of stereotype and it isnt always a perfect but I would feel good about myself if i could turn around one stereotype of which many here exist.

blah

 

[Jenin]

As for you calling me a liar.

I referred to historical palestine as the land between the river jordan and the mediterranian. That IS historical palestine. You called me a liar because you have a link from an Israeli website that has a map of Palestine and Jordan called the palestine mandate and a caption at the bottom saying something like 'this was promised to the jews'. That is initself a very twisted view of the world because you concur with the agenda of imperial britain and the maps it drew up and promised to zionist influentials in their government. This same imperial britian that Gassed the Kurds before Saddam did and same britain in which Churchil the real racist reigned.

 

[Tashah]

I referred to historical palestine as the land between the river jordan and the mediterranian. That IS historical palestine.

That IS the historical and traditional territory of Israel before the Roman occupation. The Romans renamed this area Palestinia in an effort to disenfranchise the Jewish people. At its height, the Kingdom of David included Israel and portions of present day Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan.

 

[Jenin]

And it IS the land of Canaan, and the Philistines and im sure some other nations before then..

Palestinians did not expell Jews from Palestine
Romans expelled jews/killed them and destroyed the temple (which we believe in)
The kingdom of prophet david and prophet solomon did exist.
The palestinian people Did Not destroy it..that was rome or the babylonians or someone else.
Palestine DID exist. existed for thousands of years. It has been off the map since 1948.

 

[The face of Jacob]

And it IS the land of Canaan, and the Philistines and im sure some other nations before then..

How many lies can you tell per evening?

The Canaanites aren't existed nowadays and there is no group that define herself as Canaanite. The people of Canaan were from many small nations, each city in ancient Canaan was a different ethnic group. One of them was the Canaan group. It doesn't matter what the Canaanites have said because it's important what God have said. The Canaanites were idolaters who used to sacrifice their children to their invented idols and used to do sex with animals, would you listen to these kind of people?

And anyway God commanded us to eliminate the Canaanites.

The Philistines aren't Canaanites, they invaded the area from Crete, after the children of Israel entered the land of Israel.

Palestinians did not expell Jews from Palestine.

The Arabs who call themselvs as Palestinians are sending their children to bomb themselves up in Jewish places. Indeed it's not expeltion. It's Jihad.

Palestine DID exist. existed for thousands of years. It has been off the map since 1948.

Nonsence! Can't you know how to read?

Zuheir Mohsen
is widely known for having made the following statement in a March 1977 interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw:

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

There was never in the history of the world a Palestinian nation.

There was never in the history of the world a Palestinian state.

There was never in the history of the world a Palestinian kingdom.

There were never in the history of the world Palestinian kings.

There was never in the history of the world a Palestinian capital.

There was never in the history of the world a Palestinian essence.

There was never in the history of the world a Palestinian heritage.

There was never in the history of the world a Palestinian culture.

Wikipedia explains (Israel) :

It was during this time that the Romans gave the name Syria Palaestina to the geographic area, in an attempt to erase Jewish ties to the land. The Mishnah and Jerusalem Talmud, two of Judaism's most important religious texts, were composed in the region during this period. The Muslims conquered the land from the Byzantine Empire in 638 CE. The area was ruled by various Muslim states (interrupted by the rule of the Crusaders) before becoming part of the Ottoman Empire in 1517.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

And it IS the land of Canaan, and the Philistines and im sure some other nations before then..

Palestinians did not expell Jews from Palestine
Romans expelled jews/killed them and destroyed the temple (which we believe in)
The kingdom of prophet david and prophet solomon did exist.
The palestinian people Did Not destroy it..that was rome or the babylonians or someone else.
Palestine DID exist. existed for thousands of years. It has been off the map since 1948.

You are correct in every thing you say here, except the last. Originally, it was the Romans that expelled/killed Jews, not the Arabs. As far as Palestine existing, this is a tricky topic. It existed as an area, as a protectorate, and as many things, but it has never been a soveriegn state/country onto it's own.

 

[Gardener]

Don't like my maps? Try another:

This one shows Palestine towards the end of the ottoman Empire.

NPR : The Mideast : A Century of Conflict : Map1

if you click the "next" button,you will be referred to the original British mandate hasbeen shown already. In neither case -- the land called Palestine as administered by the Turks with the smaller administrative districts called sanjaks nor the British mandate thus inhereited -- does present day Israel represent any thing close to 78% of the land mass.

Of course, the real slight of hand lies in the way these designations for land masses are interchanged with designations for a people as well as the particular point in history chosen so as to maximize the effect of one's point of view. "Palestine" has existed as a land designation with shifting boundaries and administered by all sorts of people throughout history. The notion of a Palestinian people with a national identity initsmodern manifestation is something else, though, and so one should not confuse the two.

 

[Jenin]

What makes a people a sovern state? because you said so? or because the imperial powers said so? You can call it whatever you want but you cant erase 1,400 years of life, culture and heritage in my motherland.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

What makes a people a sovern state? because you said so? or because the imperial powers said so? You can call it whatever you want but you cant erase 1,400 years of life, culture and heritage in my motherland.

I am not denying the culture and heritage of this area. A sovereign state can be described as an area that is autonomous and self-governing. This has not ever been true of Palestine.

 

[Jenin]

You are wrong. Autonomous and self governing for the greater period of 1,400 years. Autonomous under ottoman rule, under mamluk rule under arab caliphate rule.