My advice to Zelensky: Capitulate. Immediately.

[Monica33]

Crimea was annexed by Russia in 2014. Why should Ukraine have provided water to a Russian state?

Carry on with the history and recall that 97% were Russian speaking and wanted Russia to take over .

Have been on the Crimean coast many times ( dirt cheap ) and that was always the strong feeling from everybody I ever met .

 

[Monica33]

You are now arguing with yourself and the OP (which you liked) and I will take my leave.

Best idea, as you clearly under strain and a little confused .

I like any attempt to resolve but after a tipping point is reached events become inevitable . Regardless of best hopes .

 

[EdwinWillers]

Destroy documents first, and then go on TV and announce that the Ukrainian military is standing down in order to keep the bloodshed of the Ukrainian citizens to a minimum. Adapt and keep the economy buzzing along. Unfortunately, up to a few thousand may end up in prison, but he alternative is ending up dead, and most of them will be released sooner or later. It would be a bitter pill to swallow, but it would help to maintain Ukrainian assets instead of having them destroyed. It’s not much fun living under a Putin dictatorship, bud the people of Moscow seem to do okay as long as they keep their mouths shut about the government. The Ukrainians would lose this war inside of a couple of months anyway, so let’s just avoid the bloodshed and wanton destruction by capitulating now.

Shades of Neville Chamberlain!

Fwiw - the policy of appeasement rarely works with the types of Putin, or in Neville's case, Hitler.

 

[Lutherf]

Carry on with the history and recall that 97% were Russian speaking and wanted Russia to take over .

Have been on the Crimean coast many times ( dirt cheap ) and that was always the strong feeling from everybody I ever met .

You were complaining that Kiev cut off water to Crimea. Why should they have provided water to a Russian state? How does ANYTHING you blathered about make Ukraine the aggressor in Putin's chosen action?

 

[ouch]

Putin will not permit the democratically elected, senior office holders to live. Otherwise, your sentiments are practical under the circumstances.

Exclusive: US expects Kyiv's fall in days, Ukraine source warns of encirclement​

"After the air and artillery end and the ground war really starts, I think Kyiv falls in just a few days," one former senior U.S. intelligence officer told Newsweek.
www.newsweek.com

Exclusive: US Expects Kyiv to Fall in Days as Ukraine Source Warns of Encirclement​

BY NAVEED JAMALI , DAVID BRENNAN AND TOM O'CONNOR ON 2/24/22 AT 11:05 AM

"...A statement from Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Ukraine's presidential chief of staff, and shared with Newsweek by Ukraine's embassy in Washington outlined what Kyiv suspected were Moscow's goals and the likelihood of Russian forces seizing government buildings in major cities.

"The Office of the President of Ukraine believes the Russian federation has two tactical goals – to seize territories and attack the legitimate political leadership of Ukraine in order to spread chaos and install a marionette government that would sign a peace deal on bilateral relations with Russia," Podolyak said. "The enemy attempts to destabilize [the] situation in large cities, in particular Kharkiv and Kyiv. The probability exists the Russian armed forces will seize the government quarters.".."

Link to cached page of article,
https://webcache.googleusercontent....t-yet/+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/24/putin-military-success-ukraine-invasion-riskiest-yet/

Russian forces besieged the capital, Grozny, killing thousands, and soon took control of the entire breakaway republic. While a guerrilla war ...
By Max Boot
Today at 12:43 p.m. EST

“There are no certainties in war.” – Winston Churchill
"I am impatient with both those who insist that Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is a stroke of “genius” and those who insist it is a historic blunder. The truth is we don’t know which it will be. That will depend on what the people of Ukraine — and the nations of the West — do to resist this war of aggression..."

I was thinking just yesterday where Zelenski will spend his last days as Ukraine's president before he's overthrown. If anyone will capture any news that may point out where he may currently be or seen leaving to, you're the one that will find such news.

 

[watsup]

Carry on with the history and recall that 97% were Russian speaking and wanted Russia to take over .

Have been on the Crimean coast many times ( dirt cheap ) and that was always the strong feeling from everybody I ever met .

You sure are good at spreading lies.

 

[Phys251]

Destroy documents first, and then go on TV and announce that the Ukrainian military is standing down in order to keep the bloodshed of the Ukrainian citizens to a minimum. Adapt and keep the economy buzzing along. Unfortunately, up to a few thousand may end up in prison, but he alternative is ending up dead, and most of them will be released sooner or later. It would be a bitter pill to swallow, but it would help to maintain Ukrainian assets instead of having them destroyed. It’s not much fun living under a Putin dictatorship, bud the people of Moscow seem to do okay as long as they keep their mouths shut about the government. The Ukrainians would lose this war inside of a couple of months anyway, so let’s just avoid the bloodshed and wanton destruction by capitulating now.

If Kiev falls, Putin will make Ukraine his little bitch. Ukrainians have the right for that not to happen.

 

[mrjurrs]

Destroy documents first, and then go on TV and announce that the Ukrainian military is standing down in order to keep the bloodshed of the Ukrainian citizens to a minimum. Adapt and keep the economy buzzing along. Unfortunately, up to a few thousand may end up in prison, but he alternative is ending up dead, and most of them will be released sooner or later. It would be a bitter pill to swallow, but it would help to maintain Ukrainian assets instead of having them destroyed. It’s not much fun living under a Putin dictatorship, bud the people of Moscow seem to do okay as long as they keep their mouths shut about the government. The Ukrainians would lose this war inside of a couple of months anyway, so let’s just avoid the bloodshed and wanton destruction by capitulating now.

Worst post ever.

 

[trixare4kids]

Our original patriots in the 13 Colonies made it clear to the British Crown that: "We will die on our feet rather then live on our knees," Your suggestion is an insult to any free nation's citizens and military.

I salute you for saying the above! What kind of patriot doesn't fight for what's theirs?

 

[eohrnberger]

There needs to be at least some formal Ukrainian state level resistance to the Russian invasion before the insurgency begins. Without that, there won't be an insurgency.

When the situation becomes untenable, Zelinski can evacuate to setup Ukrainian government in exile and continue the fight from abroad.

While not Russia's Afghanistan, doesn't mean that it cant become something similar to that.

 

[joluoto]

No, Ukraine's best bet is to fight to win time, so Stay Behind networks and Insurgency cells can be properly formed, so there is Hell to pay for the occupation forces, a long bloody Hell. Though of course the government should secure a way to flee into exile when staying becomes impossible.

 

[trixare4kids]

Maybe some day someone will kick in your front door, demand that you leave and claim ownership of your house and then you can capitulate!

it!

 

[watsup]

If Kiev falls, Putin will make Ukraine his little bitch. Ukrainians have the right for that not to happen.

And I wish them the best if they choose that trail. I would just rather not see thousands of them be slaughtered by the Butcher of Moscow.

 

[trixare4kids]

I am a great fan of the Ukrainian people and I don’t want to see them slaughtering by a brutal thug without an iota of conscience. i would rather see live citizens rather than dead patriots on this case, for the long term.

Seriously, what if this country, the US, your country, had your attitude when we were fighting for our Independence?

 

[watsup]

There needs to be at least some formal Ukrainian state level resistance to the Russian invasion before the insurgency begins. Without that, there won't be an insurgency.

When the situation becomes untenable, Zelinski can evacuate to setup Ukrainian government in exile and continue the fight from abroad.

While not Russia's Afghanistan, doesn't mean that it cant become something similar to that.

'
That's fine for Zelensky, but what about the everyday Ukranians who will be left to the vagaries of war on their doorstep.

 

[watsup]

No, Ukraine's best bet is to fight to win time, so Stay Behind networks and Insurgency cells can be properly formed, so there is Hell to pay for the occupation forces, a long bloody Hell. Though of course the government should secure a way to flee into exile when staying becomes impossible.

So the government flees when the going gets tough, and what about all those millions of everyday Ukranians who just want to go to the store to get some food for supper? What about them?

 

[eohrnberger]

'
That's fine for Zelensky, but what about the everyday Ukranians who will be left to the vagaries of war on their doorstep.

You figuring to evacuate an entire nation's population? If even possible?
Shit man! The Biden administration couldn't even properly evacuate Afghanistan!

No, the Russian / Afghanistan model would seem to be the more effective model in this situation.

 

[Lutherf]

The OP here is saying to fold if there's an opportunity to save lives.

It either makes sense or it doesn't.

Clearly, Russia should also have surrendered to the Germans in WWII. We lost a generation in that one.

It doesn't make sense. The KGB thrived on gaining the trust of rebels in places they wanted to take over, fomenting revolution and then, once the revolution was complete, shooting their buddies in the back of the head and putting their own guys in charge. That's what "capitulation" gets you when you're dealing with a homicidal maniac.

 

[watsup]

Seriously, what if this country, the US, your country, had your attitude when we were fighting for our Independence?

God Bless them, but this is a totally different situation. The Brits had to transport their army and supplies across the Atlantic in sailing ships. Putin has overwhelming firepower and it would just be a matter of weeks and thousands upon thousands of lives lost before he took over. I am just thinking of the everyday Ukranians being able to get on with their lives while still alive.

 

[trixare4kids]

'
That's fine for Zelensky, but what about the everyday Ukranians who will be left to the vagaries of war on their doorstep.

I know you mean well. My heart hurts for them too. There will be loss of life as there always is in war, but what evidence do you have that Ukrainians want to surrender their independence to Putin?

 

[watsup]

You figuring to evacuate an entire nation's population? If even possible?
Shit man! The Biden administration couldn't even properly evacuate Afghanistan!

No, the Russian / Afghanistan model would seem to be the more effective model in this situation.

The Ukranians are not a bunch of backwoods types living in a fifth century mindset in a country of terrible terrain. The Ukranians have established a modern society and there is simply not real comparison to the religious fanatics of Afghanistan. Perhaps you would like to volunteer to assist them in their fight.

 

[watsup]

I know you mean well. My heart hurts for them too. There will be loss of life as there always is in war, but what evidence do you have that Ukrainians want to surrender their independence to Putin?

Look, don't get mad at me. I'm just being a realist. Surrender their independence to Putin now--or after thousands upon thousands of them are killed. I'm just being practical in trying to save as many as possible. They can create an underground economy that stifles the attempts by the Russians to fully control them
Don't get mad at me. Get mad at Trump and Tucker and their followers for praising this brutal murderous thug as he was preparing to invade an independent country.

 

[trixare4kids]

Look, don't get mad at me. I'm just being a realist. Surrender their independence to Putin now--or after thousands upon thousands of them are killed. I'm just being practical in trying to save as many as possible. They can create an underground economy that stifles the attempts by the Russians to fully control them
Don't get mad at me. Get mad at Trump and Tucker and their followers for praising this brutal murderous thug as he was preparing to invade an independent country.

I'm not mad at you. Don't be silly.
You have a right to your opinion.

 

[eohrnberger]

The Ukranians are not a bunch of backwoods types living in a fifth century mindset in a country of terrible terrain. The Ukranians have established a modern society and there is simply not real comparison to the religious fanatics of Afghanistan.

No, they are not. They are in an urban environment which is probably far more difficult and treacherous for an occupying military, or have you already forgotten the lessons of Fallujah?

Perhaps you would like to volunteer to assist them in their fight.

About as sensical as the rest of your post.

Don't mistake my post for cheering this situation. It's most certainly is not.

It would have been far, far better had the Russians been deterred from taking their actions, but, well, we have the president and the leaders of the EU nations which were voted in, and they've clearly not provided the deterrence necessary to avoid this situation.

 

[joluoto]

Look, don't get mad at me. I'm just being a realist. Surrender their independence to Putin now--or after thousands upon thousands of them are killed. I'm just being practical in trying to save as many as possible. They can create an underground economy that stifles the attempts by the Russians to fully control them
Don't get mad at me. Get mad at Trump and Tucker and their followers for praising this brutal murderous thug as he was preparing to invade an independent country.

Surrendering to a Dictator have the tendency to not lead to any less slaughter.