Muslims join Catholics at Mass across France to show solidarity

[Dittohead not!]

I have no intention of gracing that poster's suppositions with even the slightest hint of consideration.

Beyond which I'm not sure how your above question relates to what I said and what you quoted of mine. If you go back to read it you may perhaps see the analogy quote in the name of my race unquote.

If I were religious, what would an atrocity committed in the name of my religion have to do with me? Or, if you prefer, what would an atrocity committed by someone who's an atheist have to do with me? Even where I'd follow my natural urge to condemn it?

The narrative that certain people of simple outlook (or often of dishonest presentation) prefer, is the one where Salafi-jihadism that results in mass slaughter of civilians, is an imperative prerequisite for qualifying as Muslim. Well, no matter how often that ideological rosary is prayed around and around by the bigots that be, repetition does not turn a lie into truth.

But, to re-address focus, demanding that someone not associated with something need disassociate him- or herself from that something, is not only presumptuous but also pretty idiotic.

What your addressing is stereotyping. If a Muslim (African American, white, Englishman, Catholic, whatever) does something (good or bad), it reflects on the rest of that group like it or not, logical or not, that's just how human beings think.

So, yes, if I identify as a member of a group, and someone else is doing something I don't want to be associated with, then I should speak out, don't you think?

 

[Dittohead not!]

"Everyone" appearing to be (as we can see here with the odd poster) a bit of a stretch.

And where one can indeed argue necessity, let's re-focus again on what this is about. Like "demand" by those you cite below this.
and that validates their claim?

Islam is bad because that's what I believe. And I believe that because it IS bad.

Now where have we heard similar logic before?

The issue here is not simply the ignorance of certain parties, it's those ignoramuses taking every opportunity to spread their stupidity. In those cases, that is, where thus interested posters are not in fact aware of lying and spread the resulting outcome.

Lies.

And yet the same people who are saying that Islam is a violent religion are able to cite verses from the Koran that back up their claim. How do you answer that?

 

[_Sal]

Muslims join Catholics at Mass across France to show solidarity




Nice gesture.

it was a necessary gesture

I would like to think it will shut down those people who are always squawking that Muslims need to stand up and speak out about this violence...

it won't but it's another example we can use to show moderates do not support radicalism

 

[Dittohead not!]

it was a necessary gesture

I would like to think it will shut down those people who are always squawking that Muslims need to stand up and speak out about this violence...

it won't but it's another example we can use to show moderates do not support radicalism

Nothing will shut those people up, but gestures like this one should at least mute them a bit.

 

[_Sal]

Nothing will shut those people up, but gestures like this one should at least mute them a bit.

yes

I think moderates realize how dangerous things are becoming for them from both sides

a terrible, terrible place to be

 

[Chagos]

What your addressing is stereotyping. If a Muslim (African American, white, Englishman, Catholic, whatever) does something (good or bad), it reflects on the rest of that group like it or not, logical or not, that's just how human beings think.

So you're implying I'm not human? :mrgreen:

Maybe what you state (and I have no beef with its essence existing ) applies more to stupid humans. I certainly wouldn't call stereotyping without reflection a particularly intelligent habit.

So, yes, if I identify as a member of a group, and someone else is doing something I don't want to be associated with, then I should speak out, don't you think?

No, actually I don't think that at all.

For reasons already given.

 

[Chagos]

And yet the same people who are saying that Islam is a violent religion are able to cite verses from the Koran that back up their claim. How do you answer that?

By calling the method stupid.

Just as many verses exist that refute the claims such people make, they just conveniently (or out of ignorance) fail to cite them.

That doesn't make Islam a non-violent religion all on its own either, in fact neither of the two versions makes it anything.

Juxtaposed to actual history of centuries, verses are just verses.

 

[Chagos]

Nothing will shut those people up, but gestures like this one should at least mute them a bit.

In that one we're definitely on the same page, even where I doubt the muting of the ever noisy.

But they're a special set who'd just carry on, even if the prophet himself rose from wherever to condemn the actions that are subject here.

They'd just say he's lying.

 

[Dittohead not!]

So you're implying I'm not human? :mrgreen:

Maybe what you state (and I have no beef with its essence existing ) applies more to stupid humans. I certainly wouldn't call stereotyping without reflection a particularly intelligent habit.

No, actually I don't think that at all.

For reasons already given.

Stereotyping is not particularly intelligent.
But, all of us do it.

Maybe one day a truly intelligent animal will evolve in Planet Earth. Until it does, we're stuck with human beings.

 

[Dittohead not!]

By calling the method stupid.

Just as many verses exist that refute the claims such people make, they just conveniently (or out of ignorance) fail to cite them.

That doesn't make Islam a non-violent religion all on its own either, in fact neither of the two versions makes it anything.

Juxtaposed to actual history of centuries, verses are just verses.

The actual history of centuries is pretty violent, isn't it?

I'm not familiar enough with the Koran to be able to refute the verses that show Islam to be prone to violence, are you?

 

[Chagos]

The actual history of centuries is pretty violent, isn't it?

I'd say it's all of everything, violence being one aspect.

I'm not familiar enough with the Koran to be able to refute the verses that show Islam to be prone to violence, are you?

I'm familiar enough with it to know the verses that recommend violence. Also those verses that recommend peace.

Neither serves any purpose since 9/11. A date before which hardly anybody was interested anyway, certainly hardly anyone in the Western world.

What is being attempted by certain people with an equally certain agenda today is to link the terrorist attacks of the last 15 (or more) years to verses most convenient in serving that link. In the process condemning a whole religion and thus all of its followers.

There is nothing to debate over AQ, IS and all of the rest of the sorry bunch justifying their deeds by the very same MO. There's also no debating over their equally ignoring those parts of the Qur'an that would completely upset their applecart.

What I'm also familiar with to this day are actual Muslim people. In years past to the point of having lived in various of their countries, having worked with them, eaten with them etc.

More so I'm familiar with history and post #18 (in expanding upon post #2) in here may give an inkling.

Beyond the links (including fatwas) provided in #21, I've yet to meet a reputable Muslim theologian that will do anything other than condemn the acts of IS and similar ilk.

 

[Dittohead not!]

I'd say it's all of everything, violence being one aspect. I'm familiar enough with it to know the verses that recommend violence. Also those verses that recommend peace.

Neither serves any purpose since 9/11. A date before which hardly anybody was interested anyway, certainly hardly anyone in the Western world.

What is being attempted by certain people with an equally certain agenda today is to link the terrorist attacks of the last 15 (or more) years to verses most convenient in serving that link. In the process condemning a whole religion and thus all of its followers.

There is nothing to debate over AQ, IS and all of the rest of the sorry bunch justifying their deeds by the very same MO. There's also no debating over their equally ignoring those parts of the Qur'an that would completely upset their applecart.

What I'm also familiar with to this day are actual Muslim people. In years past to the point of having lived in various of their countries, having worked with them, eaten with them etc.

More so I'm familiar with history and post #18 (in expanding upon post #2) in here may give an inkling.

Beyond the links (including fatwas) provided in #21, I've yet to meet a reputable Muslim theologian that will do anything other than condemn the acts of IS and similar ilk.

Sounds like you have first hand experience, while the rest of us are simply reacting to headlines about terrorist acts.

 

[coldjoint]

I'd say it's all of everything, violence being one aspect. I'm familiar enough with it to know the verses that recommend violence. Also those verses that recommend peace.

Neither serves any purpose since 9/11. A date before which hardly anybody was interested anyway, certainly hardly anyone in the Western world.

What is being attempted by certain people with an equally certain agenda today is to link the terrorist attacks of the last 15 (or more) years to verses most convenient in serving that link. In the process condemning a whole religion and thus all of its followers.

There is nothing to debate over AQ, IS and all of the rest of the sorry bunch justifying their deeds by the very same MO. There's also no debating over their equally ignoring those parts of the Qur'an that would completely upset their applecart.

What I'm also familiar with to this day are actual Muslim people. In years past to the point of having lived in various of their countries, having worked with them, eaten with them etc.

More so I'm familiar with history and post #18 (in expanding upon post #2) in here may give an inkling.

Beyond the links (including fatwas) provided in #21, I've yet to meet a reputable Muslim theologian that will do anything other than condemn the acts of IS and similar ilk.

Share a few of those verses about peace that apply to everyone just not Muslims.

And who you have met and their opinions do not support the Koran and Hadiths. Holy literature would never condemn jihad in any form, including terror. Jihad is the best of deeds. and the best reason your post is apologetic nonsense.

 

[Chagos]

Sounds like you have first hand experience, while the rest of us are simply reacting to headlines about terrorist acts.

So as not to leave doubts, I've come across Muslim hate preachers as well. Not just in Saudi, where the predominant version (interpretation) of Wahhabism would leave no room for surprise wrt to this. It doesn't make Wahhabism (the adherents prefer to be called "Salafists") the default cause for the violence we get to see, but it is the most potential breeding ground for aberration to that point. I've come across it in "the West" as well, where Saudi financed mosques had Saudi-delegated so called Imams in them. Seen it first (outside of Saudi) in Pakistan even where I never visited a madrassa there. Yet Muslims there told me that those madrassas are the prime cause of religious conflict in the country. Most of the Taliban practically sprang from there, most of them erstwhile child refugees from Absurdistan returning home as adults after their schooling.

And with all our resident geniuses whining and moaning and offering no solution other than caramelizing the whole problem from the Maghreb to the Gulf (and beyond), that is where the West (all the way to cross-Atlantic) has REALLY been amiss.

Being so agog with Saudi money, oil, investments and other business opportunities, that nobody ever thought of putting some Arab speakers into the mosques built with Gulf States' money in our midst, to actually monitor what sort of stuff is actually being preached there. In fact not even attempting (for too long) to address the insufficiency of Arab speakers at disposal.

Now the powers that be are waking up but now they might as well no longer bother. Because now we have the internet and the professionals of IS are far more proficient in its usage than the "experts" on here are deluding themselves into being. Ironically feeding pretty much the same agenda as IS and thus doing its work. By spreading fear and so supporting hatred and thus (hopefully for IS strategists) driving wedges into societies to the point that more Muslims that so far have no such inclination may be pushed towards becoming more radical out of sheer frustration.

What these imbeciles don't realize is the extent to which they're potentially abetting IS designs. Even where they're of such insignificant number as to (hopefully) have little to no effect.

 

[Chagos]

Just look a the post prior to mine (this one) and ask yourself why I would ever give it or its author any consideration whatsoever. Even without reading what it says I know it's in response to my #36 on account of the quote notification I get.

So I don't need to read it, I became sufficiently acquainted with the poster upon our first encounter months ago to know it's the same old yada yada yada that I don't respond to out of principle.

Sufficiently addressed, methinks, in my #39 already, especially towards its end.