Muslim women 'face crisis over violence'

[Agent Ferris]

Yes, all too often in Islamic countries countries women are prosecuted against. Yes, it is sad and wrong. Does that mean that all Muslims are bad? No. It doesn't even mean Islam itself as a religion is bad. I've been in religious debates with just about someone from every religion. Whenever a violent quote is point out from their holy book, they say that it's context or interpretation. I don't particularly buy this, but just about every religion, and particularly the big three monotheistic religion, use the same excuse. Muslims in and of themselves are no worse than Christians or Jews in my book. Extreme Muslims are bad, just like extreme Christians and Muslims.

Point is, I see no reason to believe that Islam is violent and Christianity is peaceful. The Qur'an, Torah, and Bible all have some pretty messed up stuff in them, yet the follows of the religions don't always follow them. As long as Muslims obey the rules, and they can and do, I'm okay with them.

The thing that I see as a major difference is that it is still the mainstream view held in all five major sects of Islam that apostasy, adultery (including premarital sex being punished by 100 lashes), and sodomy are all punished through death by stoning. The adultery codes are really bad because women who accuse men of rape have to have 4 witnesses, if they do not then if they accuse a man of rape they themselves can be executed which is just insane. And again this isn't some fringe thing, it is the THE viewpoint throughout all of mainstream Islam. It is the counter viewpoints which are in the fringe minority.

 

[mikhail]

Why not just the suffering and mistreatment of women? Why just Muslim women? There's 2 and a half million cases a year in America of spousal abuse, why not start there?

Typical response.Its like saying "why are we going on about the nazis a jewish boy was beaten up recently just down the street".

Maybe people should actually start supporting women groups in the middle east rather than trying to deflect blame from the perpetrators of abuse on women.

 

[ashley.hunt60]

The thing that I see as a major difference is that it is still the mainstream view held in all five major sects of Islam that apostasy, adultery (including premarital sex being punished by 100 lashes), and sodomy are all punished through death by stoning. The adultery codes are really bad because women who accuse men of rape have to have 4 witnesses, if they do not then if they accuse a man of rape they themselves can be executed which is just insane. And again this isn't some fringe thing, it is the THE viewpoint throughout all of mainstream Islam. It is the counter viewpoints which are in the fringe minority.

First, there are extreme Muslims, and there are moderate Muslims. They tend to transcends the sects. Secondly, in a theocracy, it's common of extremists to get at the head, and force their views on the people. I'm not going to lie or deny that many Islamic laws in theocracies are harsh and disturbing, but Islam is not the issue, it's the very idea of a theocracy. Theocracies are bloody and violent no matter what religion they use or where they are on the globe. If we look at Saudi Arabia, we tend to see more extremists, due to the strong theocracy. But if we look at Turkey, we find, my God, could it be? A country full of moderate Muslims.

 

[Agent Ferris]

First, there are extreme Muslims, and there are moderate Muslims. They tend to transcends the sects. Secondly, in a theocracy, it's common of extremists to get at the head, and force their views on the people. I'm not going to lie or deny that many Islamic laws in theocracies are harsh and disturbing, but Islam is not the issue, it's the very idea of a theocracy. Theocracies are bloody and violent no matter what religion they use or where they are on the globe. If we look at Saudi Arabia, we tend to see more extremists, due to the strong theocracy. But if we look at Turkey, we find, my God, could it be? A country full of moderate Muslims.

Once again these are not fringe radicals or heads of theocracies these are mainstream religous leaders within the whole spectrum of Islam which subscribe to these things.

 

[Laila]

However, as an islamophobe I would prefer to bring attention to muslim honor killings. :roll:

Yes you do.
I'm glad you admit you prefer bringing attention against Muslims
After all that is what a Islamophobe does right?

 

[Mell]

women who accuse men of rape have to have 4 witnesses, if they do not then if they accuse a man of rape they themselves can be executed which is just insane.

I was chatting with a women in Pakistan on the internet a few years ago. She was proudly(or so it seemed) telling about the new more open minded legislation in Pakistan. Now women dont have to wear Burkas on university campuss and they only need 2 male witnesses, if they are raped.

One would wonder why the male witnesses do not intervene, and put a stop to it.

 

[Mell]

After all that is what a Islamophobe does right?

Not necessarily. It is in fact as bad as many describe, in countries where the legislation is based on Islam. Everybody should be against this, if they care about human rights.

 

[Mell]

First, there are extreme Muslims, and there are moderate Muslims.

Well, yes this is true. But, when the legislation of a country is based on Islam, this always means horrific human rights abuses in that county, whether there are moderate muslims in existance or not.

 

[Laila]

Not necessarily. It is in fact as bad as many describe, in countries where the legislation is based on Islam. Everybody should be against this, if they care about human rights.

Since this is being brought to attention by a Islamophobe.
I doubt he cares about human rights but rather prefers demonizing Islam further.

 

[Mell]

Since this is being brought to attention by a Islamophobe.
I doubt he cares about human rights but rather prefers demonizing Islam further.

Maybe, maybe not. But, he is right nevertheless.

 

[Mell]

Typical response.Its like saying "why are we going on about the nazis a jewish boy was beaten up recently just down the street".

As well as that, people are supporting the womens rights groups in America, they have made incredible progress in the last hundred years. The same cant be said for Saudi Arabia, Iran...

 

[Laila]

Maybe, maybe not. But, he is right nevertheless.

As far as I am concerned.
When it comes to Islam and especially Muslims, his words mean jack ****.

It's like asking a White supremacist to point out the flaws in the Black community and expect a fair response

 

[Agent Ferris]

I was chatting with a women in Pakistan on the internet a few years ago. She was proudly(or so it seemed) telling about the new more open minded legislation in Pakistan. Now women dont have to wear Burkas on university campuss and they only need 2 male witnesses, if they are raped.

One would wonder why the male witnesses do not intervene, and put a stop to it.

Such progress, it used to be 4 male witnesses. :roll: In 2006 Pakistan passed the Womens Protection Act which revised portions of the Hudood Ordinance, it's still a capital offense to engage in adultery, homosexuality, and apostasy and premarital sex is still subject to corporal punishment but now women who have been raped can have their cases heard in civil rather than Sharia court; whereas, before not only were women not being able to prove rape but they themselves were being charged with adultery or premarital sex when they couldn't provide the 4 requisite male witnesses (the latter carrying the maximum penalty of death) and the former requiring 100 lashes. **** is just insane.

 

[Mell]

As far as I am concerned.
When it comes to Islam and especially Muslims, his words mean jack ****.

It's like asking a White supremacist to point out the flaws in the Black community and expect a fair response

His words mean a lot more than jack politically, since Islam is in fact affecting world politics and human rights, womens rights and gay rights in particular. There is no point in bringing white supremacists into this discussion, because it is not about them. As well as that, are there actually laws in existance, which protect and enforce white supremacy? No, there are not! There are however laws in some countries which protect male supremacy, in the name of Islam, which makes Islam a serious political topic, so those who oppose it cant be brushed off as Islamophobes. It is simply ignorant to support Islam.

 

[Mell]

...it's still a capital offense to engage in...apostasy

Which is why they are out of their dept, when attempting a political discussion on the internet. There is a lack of experience with addressing a number of points of view, and especially with addressing information because where religion is concerned, information does not count.

 

[Laila]

It is simply ignorant to support Islam.

I support Islam *gasp*
SHOCK HORROR!

And yes, Sgt is a Islamophobe.

 

[Mell]

I support Islam *gasp*
SHOCK HORROR!

And yes, Sgt is a Islamophobe.

OK OK, I got your point already. You think he an Islamophobe, with intentions that you dont trust.

I dont think he has intentions. He just is like a lot of us are, which is getting impatient with the abuses against people done in the name of Islam.

 

[Laila]

OK OK, I got your point already. You think he an Islamophobe, with intentions that you dont trust.

I dont think he has intentions. He just is like a lot of us are, which is getting impatient with the abuses against people done in the name of Islam.

Well considering he has admitted he hates both Muslims and Islam and has called it "evil"
Try door number too.
He is not like the rest of us.
Unless we are all bigots and predjudiced.

 

[SgtRock]

Since this is being brought to attention by a Islamophobe.
I doubt he cares about human rights but rather prefers demonizing Islam further.

I do care about human rights. This is why as I said before Islam must be defeated even if it takes a thousand years.

 

[SgtRock]

BTW, the word islamopobe is not even in the dictionary. Islamophobe | Define Islamophobe at Dictionary.com. Its a word made up by islamic supremist to attempt to stigmatize non believers who are bringing attention to the evil that is islam.

Islam: The Religion of Peace
and an ever growing pile of dead bodies

 

[alexa]

BTW, the word islamopobe is not even in the dictionary. Islamophobe | Define Islamophobe at Dictionary.com. Its a word made up by islamic supremist to attempt to stigmatize non believers who are bringing attention to the evil that is islam.

Islam: The Religion of Peace
and an ever growing pile of dead bodies

Islamophobia was a term coined by Britain's Runnymeand trust. I agree that it is not a particularly good term. However

It was coined by way of analogy to “xenophobia” and can be characterized by the belief that all or most Muslims are religious fanatics, have violent tendencies towards non-Muslims, and reject such concepts as equality, tolerance, and democracy. It is a new form of racism whereby Muslims, an ethno-religious group, not a race, are, nevertheless, constructed as a race. A set of negative assumptions are made of the entire group to the detriment of members of that group. During the 1990s many sociologists and cultural analysts observed a shift in racist ideas from ones based on skin color to ones based on notions of cultural superiority and otherness.

Palestine - Israel Journal of Politics, Economics and Culture

 

[Aleem]

So its not just so called Islamophobes like me:roll: who are talking about muslim womens rights.

I think you should revise Violence Against Women in your civilized country first and i'm sure you'll find out that the american woman is in more need for your generous interest.
Second. You may refer to Wife Beating in Islamic Perspective if you really want to know something about Islam before repeating the same boring phrases against it.
Third. You look so worried about muslim women's rights and at the same time you want to stop islamization. which one are you?

 

[The Giant Noodle]

I think you should revise Violence Against Women in your civilized country first and i'm sure you'll find out that the american woman is in more need for your generous interest.

Thats laughable. :roll:

 

[Laila]

I do care about human rights. This is why as I said before Islam must be defeated even if it takes a thousand years.

Liar.
You could give two ****s about Muslim women or our "struggles"
You just want more ammo to use against people who follow my religion.

 

[Degreez]

Liar.
You could give two ****s about Muslim women or our "struggles"
You just want more ammo to use against people who follow my religion.

Just give it up. SgtRock is the same person who posted that he wanted to see all Muslims exterminated. He also posted a picture of a plane dropping a nuke on the Kaa'ba in Mecca.

The irony is, if someone else were to post that they wanted to see all Christians terminated, or all Jews (or Buddhists), they would most likely be perm banned and never allowed back here.