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Muslim Scholars Issue Fatwa Against Terrorism

mustafa said:
I agree , but just because some of them plan attacks doesn't mean that others must have known ......
For your information , malaysia is know as multicultural country , which mean there is alot of races here , i think totally they wouldn't be less than 10 races in malaysia .....

There is probably a culture of every race in the world in the USA including Malaysian....

It would be very difficult for white Americans to get intelligence in the Moslem communitites but with loyal moslems who are Americans the task would be much easier...........
 
gordontravels said:
Please let me ask the question before I do as I really want and comment.

Are you telling me that the Army and Police of Iraq are as the Nazi? Are you saying that the terrorists attacking them are like the French Resistance? That is my question.

I have been a scholar of WWII since the late 60's and I have never heard anyone, not anyone try to connect the French Underground who laid the foundation for the D Day Invasion accused of being a terrorist organization except maybe the German Nazis. Yet you say it could be said?

When Nazi Germany was occupying France the French Resistance bombed trains. Are you saying these were passenger trains? Or were they Military Trains? Are you saying that Marshall Law wasn't in effect by the Nazis in France? I would love to read your sources. I don't need links.

You think French people that collaborated with the Nazis were murdered? Not executed? If you gave Osama information to help him take down the World Trade Center who would you be? What would you expect? In an all out war such as WWII where those people collaborating were responsible for entire buildings of people being summarily shot, men, women and children; what do you think should have been done to the collaborators since it was the Nazi that were in charge? What?

Just give me the reference material for your information on the terrorism accomplished by the French Resistance such as "Inside the Third Reich" written by Hitler's Minister of Armorments and considered the second in command toward the end of the war, Albert Speer, not a victor.

Or how about "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William L. Shirer that was based upon fact from both sides and not a victor's standpoint. Shirer actually lived in Berlin up until 3 days before the Germans began WWII on 8-31-39.

How about the French Jews that were..... oh that's right, they are dead aren't they? Please look for a book titled "The Final Solution". That "solution" came shortly after the Wanasee Conference. Remember that?

Who the hell are you and where did this come from? There are only a few avenues for you. You uphold the Nazis and agree with them. You have an axe to grind against the French Resistance. OR You have no grasp of history and want to put up some arguement against the War in Iraq. I can see being against the War in Iraq but labeling the French Resistance terrorists? You are so wrong it actually makes me sick.

Is there something else?


If you read correctly what I said...

AS THE GERMANS LOST, it's the French (among others) who wrote history. So, they are NOT labelled terrorists. IF the Gremans had won, they would have been labelled terrorists. As you stated correctly, the German invaders called the French resistance terrorists.

In Iraq, the invasion army is the US-led coalition. The Iraqi army and police are helping the invadors. If you take the situation in France during WWII, the French police was a legitimate target, as they helped the nazis. So, the fatwa condeming attacks against civilians but accepting attacks against the military and their allies is understandable.

Hope this clarifies my position.

PS: my father was in the resistance during WWII, before leaving for the UK where he joined the RAF.

CU
Y
 
Navy Pride said:
Come on get real............The terrorists are in the community.....They mix with them..........They know what is said in their mosques..........If someone preaches terrorism the turn them in............
Yeah sure.

It is well known that the 19 saudis responsible for 911 went to mosques and preached terrorism there.:roll:

The FBI knows perfectly well which cleric is preaching "terrorism". Expelling them will most probably not help, but can be accepted as long as it goes before a court and that an independentn judge can take a decision basedn on proofs. But it will NOT suppress terrorism. Look at the guys responsible for the July 7th attacks in London. They were normal people for their neighbours and family.

So, asking the muslim community to "turn down" the terrorists is plain stupid. It is the same as requesting US citizens to turn down their terrorists because of the Mc Veigh attack.

CU
Y
 
cnredd said:
Agreed...But anyone can change the equation around to make it look like direct provocation existed. In Osama's letter to America, he said that there is no such thing as an "innocent American", because if a politician or an administration is guilty, and the American public voted them in to do something which is wrong, then the public must be considered "guilty" also.
And any other country that has a friendly relationship with America is a collaborator so, by extension, THEY are guilty, too.

See how logic can get twisted to serve their purpose?
And the tens of thousands Iraqis killed by the occupation troops are not innocent, then?

The US is also quite prone to twisting logic to serve their purposes.

Y
 
epr64 said:
And the tens of thousands Iraqis killed by the occupation troops are not innocent, then?

The US is also quite prone to twisting logic to serve their purposes.

Y

I'd like to see where the "ten of thousands" are the result of occupation troops. The US is not targeting civilians,...the terrorists are. To blame the terrorists' actions of tageting civilians as a result of troops being there is beneath debate.

Iraqi "resistance" fighter - "Hey!...I don't like another country's troops being here, although my democratically elected government has not asked them to leave...I think I'll blow up my own people in protest"

Pure genius....
 
epr64 said:
And the tens of thousands Iraqis killed by the occupation troops are not innocent, then?

The US is also quite prone to twisting logic to serve their purposes.

Y

too true

cnredd said:
The US is not targeting civilians,...the terrorists are. To blame the terrorists' actions of tageting civilians as a result of troops being there is beneath debate.

what about those people who were tortured in Abu Gharib ? ... there was many of them who had nothing to do with either resistence or terrorism .. do you know that there was a whole family who were sent there only because they buried dead Iraqis ??? Do you know that a father and his son where shot dead because they didn't understand what STOP means ?? maybe U.S dont want to target civilians but the truth is they do ......
 
mustafa said:
what about those people who were tortured in Abu Gharib ? ... there was many of them who had nothing to do with either resistence or terrorism .. do you know that there was a whole family who were sent there only because they buried dead Iraqis ??? Do you know that a father and his son where shot dead because they didn't understand what STOP means ?? maybe U.S dont want to target civilians but the truth is they do ......

If you are going to rewrite history to mangle the good works of the majority to point out the embarrasments of a few, then you are not looking at the bigger picture....Mistakes have been made, and you rightfully point them out...But you NEGLECT to mention any good that comes out of Iraq....the democratic vote....the schools rebuilt...and so on...
That negative connotation makes people think that that is what is going on in the whole country, and not mentioning that these are isolated incidents.

These positives stories are alot harder to find; NOT because they aren't there, but because "feel good" stories don't sell papers or get good ratings.

There is an old saying in journalism..."No one reports on the buildings that AREN'T on fire"
 
cnredd said:
If you are going to rewrite history to mangle the good works of the majority to point out the embarrasments of a few, then you are not looking at the bigger picture....Mistakes have been made, and you rightfully point them out...But you NEGLECT to mention any good that comes out of Iraq....the democratic vote....the schools rebuilt...and so on...
That negative connotation makes people think that that is what is going on in the whole country, and not mentioning that these are isolated incidents.

that's the thing , many people believe that Abu Gharib wasn't an exeption , it was the real face of the occupation ... btw , not only Abu Gharib , there is many many stories from daily life that shows that U.S is killing innocent civilians ... and what bigger picture ? .... the "democratic" vote was dont by few people considering the total population of Iraq and there was many parties who refused to join the government ... " the schools rebuilt" and who destroyed the schools in the firs place huh ? ....keep in mind, there was an investigation concerning the loss of huge amount of money dedicated to rebuild Iraq ... and again who razed Iraq :rolleyes: .... what a nice big picture :applaud
 
cnredd said:
I'd like to see where the "ten of thousands" are the result of occupation troops. The US is not targeting civilians,...the terrorists are. To blame the terrorists' actions of tageting civilians as a result of troops being there is beneath debate.

Iraqi "resistance" fighter - "Hey!...I don't like another country's troops being here, although my democratically elected government has not asked them to leave...I think I'll blow up my own people in protest"

Pure genius....




Do you even know how the whole Fallujah mess got started?

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/BUN410A.html


pure cowardice...and to this day no justice has been brought(citizens say they were on their way to a peace march) their were children there also....and Women......that is why they fight



peace
 
Surenderer said:
Do you even know how the whole Fallujah mess got started?

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/BUN410A.html

pure cowardice...and to this day no justice has been brought(citizens say they were on their way to a peace march) their were children there also....and Women......that is why they fight

peace

Our website was established on the 9th of September 2001, two days before the tragic events of September 11. Barely a few days later, Global Research had become a major news source on the New World Order and Washington's "war on terrorism".

And this is your idea of an objective website?
 
cnredd said:
Our website was established on the 9th of September 2001, two days before the tragic events of September 11. Barely a few days later, Global Research had become a major news source on the New World Order and Washington's "war on terrorism".

And this is your idea of an objective website?





That the best you can do? Screw the website the video isnt debateable...I dont care who posted it even the Pentagon acknowledges the video....Can you say "Kill the messenger"?


peace
 
Surenderer said:
That the best you can do? Screw the website the video isnt debateable...I dont care who posted it even the Pentagon acknowledges the video....Can you say "Kill the messenger"?

peace

Must I go through all 7,983 questions that I have on this video and more importantly, WHY aren't these questions answered on the website????????

Was there a report out saying that a group of terrorists would be coming that way before the helicopter even left the ground?

Is this the same group that a soldier on the ground might have said is "coming your way" to the helicopter?

At no point during the exchange between the pilot and controllers does anyone ask whether the Iraqis are armed or posing a threat. Critics say it proves war crimes are being committed. - From globalbullshit.com

Does it ever report on the Iraqis posing a threat BEFORE or AFTER the video?(Although I DOUBT "after"):doh
Does globalspeculation.com know if, two seconds before the video shown, the pilot could've said, "Sir I belive these are the people that we were discussing earlier."

Here's a qustion for ya....Is this the WHOLE VIDEO?...or is this ONLY the part they WANT you to see?....Rodney King ring a bell?...How about Michael Moore?

If you want to blieve a video as 100% valid, go right ahead. But, hell!...I could show you three angles of NFL's instant replay where it looks like he caught the ball, but on the fourth angle it clearly shows he didn't.

Why oh why would I believe a CLIP from ONE video on a website that is decidedly biased as being the God's honest truth?

You are the juror that defense attorney's can only dream of....
 
Thats why I love ya bro ya always have a good response;) ....anyways I told you that the citizens of Fallujah said that the "Mob" was on their way to a peace rally.....You seem to want to attack the website instead of the video....But I first saw it on ABC News website ...You can try to spin it if ya want but the aftermath showed that there were women and kids in that carnage



Does globalspeculation.com know if, two seconds before the video shown, the pilot could've said, "Sir I belive these are the people that we were discussing earlier."


No or they could have said I gonna kill anything that moves today .....see the circular logic? He didnt say terrorists or insurgence...He said large group of people....no check for positive I.D.



Here's a qustion for ya....Is this the WHOLE VIDEO?...or is this ONLY the part they WANT you to see?....Rodney King ring a bell?...How about Michael Moore?


Oh Goodness I can see we must disagree on Rodney King too:roll: I guess trying to get up and run while cops with sticks are beating the Hell outta you is a crime also...What color is the Sky in the White Mans World? .. nevermind not even gonna go there:cool:



I highly doubt they posed a threat to the helicopter since they were walking in the wide open street....the dispatch didnt ask for any clarification....they were very "flip" afterwards....and as I told you they were wrong


peace
 
epr64 said:
Yeah sure.

It is well known that the 19 saudis responsible for 911 went to mosques and preached terrorism there.:roll:

The FBI knows perfectly well which cleric is preaching "terrorism". Expelling them will most probably not help, but can be accepted as long as it goes before a court and that an independentn judge can take a decision basedn on proofs. But it will NOT suppress terrorism. Look at the guys responsible for the July 7th attacks in London. They were normal people for their neighbours and family.

So, asking the muslim community to "turn down" the terrorists is plain stupid. It is the same as requesting US citizens to turn down their terrorists because of the Mc Veigh attack.

CU
Y

Prior to 9/11/01 no one pays much attention to moslem terrorists.......Clinton and his administration treated terrorism as a police action........That all changed after 9/11/01......It became a whole new ballgame.......
 
Last edited:
epr64 said:
And the tens of thousands Iraqis killed by the occupation troops are not innocent, then?

The US is also quite prone to twisting logic to serve their purposes.

Y

Of course the hundreds of thousands that Saddam murdered is nothing....:roll:

You Saddam apologists crack me up...........
 
Navy Pride said:
Prior to 9/11/01 no one pays much attention to moslem terrorists.......Clinton and his administration treated terrorism as a police action........That all changed after 9/11/01......It became a whole new ballgame.......
Yeah, well, Bush has been meaning to talk to you about that. It appears that the whole emphasis on the military thing, turns out that it was not so much a good idea.

I'll just let Team Bush and Genl Meyer's explain:

...it focused attention solely, and incorrectly, on the military campaign.

[General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff] "objected to the use of the term 'war on terrorism' before, because if you call it a war, then you think of people in uniform as being the solution."

The solution is "more diplomatic, more economic, more political than it is military," he concluded.
More of the the sensitive war and global test crap. Those Kerry lovin French cheese eating folks we have running our military, sheesh. When will they learn that they should take there cues about how to do their job from talk radio hacks?

cribbed from this thread


Have you given the Pentagon's Report of the Defense Science Board Task Force on Strategic Communication a glance yet?

“Strategic communication requires a sophisticated method … … [it] will build on in depth knowledge of other cultures and factors that motivate human behavior. It will adapt techniques of skillful political campaigning … It will engage in a respectful dialogue of ideas that begins with listening and assumes decades of sustained effort.

“[Global] opinions must be taken into account when [US] policy options are considered and implemented.

“The Task Force recommends that the President issue a directive to: (a) strengthen the U.S. Government’s ability to understand global public opinion, advise on the strategic implications of policymaking, and communicate with global audiences ...

“The strategic environment has changed radically since the October 2001 Task Force report. We face a war on terrorism, intensified conflict within Islam, and insurgency in Iraq. Worldwide anger and discontent are directed at America’s tarnished credibility[!] and ways the U.S. pursues its goals[!].

"The information campaign — or as some still would have it, “the war of ideas,” or the struggle for “hearts and minds” — is important to every war effort. In this war it is an essential objective ... But American efforts have not only failed in this respect: they may also have achieved the opposite of what they intended.
American direct intervention in the Muslim World has paradoxically elevated the stature of and support for radical Islamists ...

• Muslims do not “hate our freedom,” but rather, they hate our policies.

• Furthermore, in the eyes of Muslims, American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering.

• Therefore, the dramatic narrative since 9/11 has essentially borne out the entire radical Islamist bill of particulars. American actions and the flow of events have elevated the authority of the Jihadi insurgents and tended to ratify their legitimacy among Muslims. Fighting groups portray themselves as the true defenders of an Ummah ... to broad public support.

• What was a marginal network is now an Ummah-wide movement of fighting groups. Not only has there been a proliferation of “terrorist” groups: the unifying context of a shared cause creates a sense of affiliation across the many cultural and sectarian boundaries that divide Islam.
Why not just build bigger, cheaper bombs?
 
• Muslims do not “hate our freedom,” but rather, they hate our policies




Oh My Goodness....How long have I been saying that on this board?


peace
 
mustafa said:
First of all , u should show a discrepancy between Jew and Israel , i think they would condemn these attacks even if they targeted innocents jews who dont live in Israel , bear in mind that there is jews who live peacefully in Egypt , an arab muslim country .... but when it comes to Israel , the Israelis are invaders to muslim and arabs , they invaded a holy place ( Al Aqsa mosque ) and i dont know if u know this but when jews\israelis first came to palestine , they killed thousands maybe millions of muslim men , women and even children without mercy , they committed horrible crimes against muslims and they still do that ... palestine is a muslim land , particulary arab land so what palesenians do is part of resisting the occupation .... from what i can see , people these days look at Israel in the present , and they think why those " terrorists" are killing innocent , pure Israelis but they dont see what Israel has done to them in the past, they dont see how much pain and destruction they brought on muslims ... so that why they dont condemn the "suicide" bombings on Israelis ........

I believe that history says the United Nations declared the state of Palestine on behalf of the Jews and Arabs and as soon as the British pulled out the Arabs attacked. Isn't that true? Please let me know if I am wrong and also; have not the Israelis won each war and wasn't each was begun by an Arab state or states?

I am not trying to ascribe right or wrong here, just asking those questions.
:duel :cool:
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Yeah, well, Bush has been meaning to talk to you about that. It appears that the whole emphasis on the military thing, turns out that it was not so much a good idea.

I'll just let Team Bush and Genl Meyer's explain:

...it focused attention solely, and incorrectly, on the military campaign.

[General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff] "objected to the use of the term 'war on terrorism' before, because if you call it a war, then you think of people in uniform as being the solution."

The solution is "more diplomatic, more economic, more political than it is military," he concluded.
More of the the sensitive war and global test crap. Those Kerry lovin French cheese eating folks we have running our military, sheesh. When will they learn that they should take there cues about how to do their job from talk radio hacks?

cribbed from this thread


Have you given the Pentagon's Report of the Defense Science Board Task Force on Strategic Communication a glance yet?

“Strategic communication requires a sophisticated method … … [it] will build on in depth knowledge of other cultures and factors that motivate human behavior. It will adapt techniques of skillful political campaigning … It will engage in a respectful dialogue of ideas that begins with listening and assumes decades of sustained effort.

“[Global] opinions must be taken into account when [US] policy options are considered and implemented.

“The Task Force recommends that the President issue a directive to: (a) strengthen the U.S. Government’s ability to understand global public opinion, advise on the strategic implications of policymaking, and communicate with global audiences ...

“The strategic environment has changed radically since the October 2001 Task Force report. We face a war on terrorism, intensified conflict within Islam, and insurgency in Iraq. Worldwide anger and discontent are directed at America’s tarnished credibility[!] and ways the U.S. pursues its goals[!].

"The information campaign — or as some still would have it, “the war of ideas,” or the struggle for “hearts and minds” — is important to every war effort. In this war it is an essential objective ... But American efforts have not only failed in this respect: they may also have achieved the opposite of what they intended.
American direct intervention in the Muslim World has paradoxically elevated the stature of and support for radical Islamists ...

• Muslims do not “hate our freedom,” but rather, they hate our policies.

• Furthermore, in the eyes of Muslims, American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering.

• Therefore, the dramatic narrative since 9/11 has essentially borne out the entire radical Islamist bill of particulars. American actions and the flow of events have elevated the authority of the Jihadi insurgents and tended to ratify their legitimacy among Muslims. Fighting groups portray themselves as the true defenders of an Ummah ... to broad public support.

• What was a marginal network is now an Ummah-wide movement of fighting groups. Not only has there been a proliferation of “terrorist” groups: the unifying context of a shared cause creates a sense of affiliation across the many cultural and sectarian boundaries that divide Islam.
Why not just build bigger, cheaper bombs?

You Bush haters can whine all you want but the bottom line is we have not had a terrorist attack on this country in almost 4 years.....This president and his administration must be doing something right.......
 
Surenderer said:
Oh My Goodness....How long have I been saying that on this board?


peace

Radical Muslims hate us period.......They call us infidels.........They say we all should die........It has nothing to do with our freedoms........
 
Navy Pride said:
Radical Muslims hate us period.......They call us infidels.........They say we all should die........It has nothing to do with our freedoms........





I know it has nothing to do with our freedoms....it's of foreign policies....like I said..


peace
 
Navy Pride said:
You Bush haters can whine all you want but the bottom line is we have not had a terrorist attack on this country in almost 4 years.....This president and his administration must be doing something right.......



But the one we did have was also on his watch wasnt it?was he doing something wrong then? You do realize America is more hated now than ever....Surely that cant make you feel safer



peace
 
Surenderer said:
But the one we did have was also on his watch wasnt it?was he doing something wrong then? You do realize America is more hated now than ever....Surely that cant make you feel safer



peace

And the one we did have was rooted in decades of complacency, arrogance and ignorance on our part not President Bush's couple of months of it.

And whether or not our foreign policy is pre-emptive military action or diplomatic solutions to world crisis they won’t agree with us!

Who’s blamed for the Kenya Genocide where our inablility in “defining the term Genocide” lead to more innocent deaths in a month than this whole Iraq war! Should we have put military forces there and saved those people? Nah somebody might not like that.

Who is blamed for ignoring slobidan milosivich as he performed Ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and Kosovo. Should we have put our forces in there and saved those people. Nah we need to be liked by everyone.

I don’t care what the rest of the world thinks because the rest of the world has done just as much to bring about our present situation as we have yet we have to be the scape goat. It wasn’t just the United States who arbitrarily decided to split up the muslim world as we saw fit after WWI and WWII.

It wasn’t the United states who maintained colonies in these regions and repressed their movements towards autocracy until the 50s.

If i'm afraid of anyone its not the rest of the world but the anti-war anti-bush propagandists who prefer to nitpick every policy that's not turned out exactly as we might have wanted (most of which have had measures taken to change them already and more of which i'm sure will come as they always do war time or peace, right or left) which will help push this war into the Vietnam conflict that you morons want it to and that these terrorists are dying for it to diminish into.

Perhaps some constructive criticisms in line with us achieving our goals rather than destructive propaganda to tear down a presidency that conflicts with some peoples idea of how to address the problems we're facing would help a bit more!
 
QUOTES by epr64 in Black - If you read correctly what I said...

I just went back and read it and I read it correctly, word for word, just as you wrote it.

AS THE GERMANS LOST, it's the French (among others) who wrote history. So, they are NOT labelled terrorists. IF the Gremans had won, they would have been labelled terrorists. As you stated correctly, the German invaders called the French resistance terrorists.

In Iraq, the invasion army is the US-led coalition. The Iraqi army and police are helping the invadors. If you take the situation in France during WWII, the French police was a legitimate target, as they helped the nazis. So, the fatwa condeming attacks against civilians but accepting attacks against the military and their allies is understandable.

I said no such thing about the Germans calling the French Resistance terrorists. If you read correctly what I said. The French Resistance were representing the true and free government of the French people. They were recognized by the Government in Exile of France and all of the WWII allies including the Soviet Union, Great Britain and the United States. You seem to think that the German People were in lock step with their Fhurer. If you would take the time to read Albert Speer's "Inside the Third Reich" you might learn something about the Nazis. It is written by the man that was number 2 to Adolph himself for nearly the last 3 years of WWII. That you can even equate the French Resistance as terrorists in the minds of an army/government that occupies is beyond me. Iraq is not about to let al Quaida or Syria or Iran call the shots for them. We ceased to be an invading force when the new government in Iraq took over. You do believe in democracy don't you?

Hope this clarifies my position.

Not in the least. Do some reading, serious reading and then maybe we can revisit your take on the Germans and how they would have written what they did and who did what to them differently. What I read from you makes about as much sense as someone that doesn't understand what the Nazis and their collaborators were doing at all. Hey, maybe that's you.

PS: my father was in the resistance during WWII, before leaving for the UK where he joined the RAF.

If your father was in the resistance I know he would never have equated them with terrorists under any circumstances but I can appreciate his service. My father had two ships shot out from under him in the Pacific and I fought in Vietnam. Still, so what about my father or yours or even my service when it comes to rewriting history. You speculate how the Germans would have written about the French Resistance? Read Albert Speer and know instead of speculation. It's a good read as well. You will do yourself a favor. :duel :cool:
 
Crispy said:
And the one we did have was rooted in decades of complacency, arrogance and ignorance on our part not President Bush's couple of months of it.

And whether or not our foreign policy is pre-emptive military action or diplomatic solutions to world crisis they won’t agree with us!

Who’s blamed for the Kenya Genocide where our inablility in “defining the term Genocide” lead to more innocent deaths in a month than this whole Iraq war! Should we have put military forces there and saved those people? Nah somebody might not like that.

Who is blamed for ignoring slobidan milosivich as he performed Ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and Kosovo. Should we have put our forces in there and saved those people. Nah we need to be liked by everyone.

I don’t care what the rest of the world thinks because the rest of the world has done just as much to bring about our present situation as we have yet we have to be the scape goat. It wasn’t just the United States who arbitrarily decided to split up the muslim world as we saw fit after WWI and WWII.

It wasn’t the United states who maintained colonies in these regions and repressed their movements towards autocracy until the 50s.

If i'm afraid of anyone its not the rest of the world but the anti-war anti-bush propagandists who prefer to nitpick every policy that's not turned out exactly as we might have wanted (most of which have had measures taken to change them already and more of which i'm sure will come as they always do war time or peace, right or left) which will help push this war into the Vietnam conflict that you morons want it to and that these terrorists are dying for it to diminish into.

Perhaps some constructive criticisms in line with us achieving our goals rather than destructive propaganda to tear down a presidency that conflicts with some peoples idea of how to address the problems we're facing would help a bit more!

Great post! I'm glad you brought up Bosnia and Kosovo......one more chapter in the sad history of Europe.

They want to preach to us from their Ivory Tower and enlighten us on how to be more "civilized". They summarily dismiss us a "trailer trash" who have nothing to bring to the table of humanity. Look at all their contributions:

The Crusades, the Inquisition, Colonialism, Imperialism, Genocide, Facism, Nazism, Communism, the slave trade, etc....They don't say how many Thirld World countries are starving because of their protectionism. They forget that before there was a Vietnam there was an Indochina (selective amnesia?)

What legacy did they leave behind in Africa, the Midlle East and Central Asia?

They say we sell weapons, but forget they are the main providers of nuclear technology to totalitarian and or teocratic states.

They say we are crass, violent and vulgar. Yet, statistics show they are more violent than us (ready upon request) If hooligans and skinheads are their idea of European superiority, I'll take trailer trash any day.
 
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